Please, get a backbone!

Not at all. I think if Bobby V and the players can't win, then its a match made in heaven. October is always a lot better when the Red Sox are golfing.

there mis more to this than we know---the talking heads in BOSTON arentrying to,figure out how yahoo
got info before the local reporters---- stayed tuned

Believe it or not, I am a life long Red Sox fan. (The 21 in my handle in part reflects when Clemens was a legit player.)

This latest edition simply brings me back to more youthful days when swoons and buffoons were sometimes the norm.

Having said that, they still have as many or more rings on their fingers in this millenium than any other major league team.

So I still give kudos to the ownership for restoring a championship atmosphere, albeit lost since last year.

The lesson is one we all bear remembering, if you fail to change you can be sure to fail.

Francona was hands down one of the greatest Sox managers for the group of players he had UP UNTIL LAST YEAR.

The make-up of that group continued to evolve but Terry's management style did not.

Valentine is equally doomed to failure but mostly because ownership has failed to adapt as Terry failed to adapt.

A Manager needs to manage what he has, he can't command it. Otherwise we would call him Sergeant!

Fenway,

Well said!

Today's players have big egos. An egomanical manager can't manage in today's game. When listening to Valentine in interviews I come away thinking it's all about him. Today's manager has to be able to manage the egos which is what Francona did so well. But like Pat Riley once said, "If you run out of new ways to say the same thing players starting tuning you out and it's time to go." Valentine was a poor choice for manager.

I believe Sox management panicked when Sveum took the Cubs job. I believe the reason Valentine has a two year deal is the Sox will bring back John Farrell when his three year deal with the Jays is over.

The player that has to go is Josh Beckett. He's a problem and a cancer. He's the leader of the chicken bucket and beer brigade. Management needs to get him away from Lester and Buchholtz.

In addition Epstein crippled the organization with horrendous big name free agent signings. Epstein was good at finding the additional pieces like Millar, Cabrera and Foulke. I hope Cubs fans aren't looking for any miracles from Epstein.

It warms my heart to see what's going on up in Beantown.

John Henry will be saying saranara to Valentine.
The over-under is Oct 4, 2012

Aren't things a little skewed when the employees make more money and have more power than the bosses?

quote:

Originally posted by hokieone:
Fenway,

Well said!

Exactly! The RS roster needs to have a long chat with the man in the mirror (especially Beckett and Lester). Ownership is to blame enabling these brats. They all need an intervention. They will never live down the lack of pride and professionalism exhibited for the past year.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear:
John Henry will be saying saranara to Valentine.
The over-under is Oct 4, 2012

Amen. It hasn't worked out. Firing BV now only enables the brat players. Bobby goes in October. The sad thing is this is a horrible footnote to a decent (not great) managing career. He's 62 and won't likely get another chance, especially after this disaster.

I've been doing a little poking around. I just realized Pedrioa has 2013 @ $10M and 2014 @ $10M with a club option/buyout for 2015. It has been 4 years since he was MVP. I'd like to see Pedey man-up and lead this team to respectability, but the business side of this may get him next year or the following year.

Beckett's 4 year/$68M deal is over in 2014.

Lester has a $13M team option in 2014.

I'm just sayin' 2014 is going to be an interesting year with Pedey/Beckett's last contract year and Lester's option in 2014.

I'm not so sure Valentine is going anywhere. Who are they going to find to "babysit" the children for 1-2 years while these contracts expire and they replace them with (hopefully) mature young players coming through the system or free agents. I'm absolutely sick about it. Henry is the owner, we know he is clueless. Lucchino is lying awful low lately, and Cherington can't shut up quick enough. Serenity please!

Hey TRhit... good to see you.
hope you are doing well.

I mentioned early in the year that Valentine would cause the Sox problems . As a Rays fan ,can't say i'm upset . Red Sox will fire him before the year is out and they will return to the team they can be . His ego is way too big for Boston but I also agree the players need to shut their piehole and just play the game .

What they need is a core of position players to lead the team in the clubhouse. When a brat pitcher is leading the clubhouse, the inmates are truly running the asylum.

In a functioning clubhouse, you tend to have a senior pitcher who is a good influence on the others. The leader among pitchers. Then you have a position player or two who helps keep it together through the slumps. The manager manages, of course, but the good teams have players who lead by example.

I'm not letting BV or the owner off the hook, I'm just saying you can change managers, but you need to shore up the clubhouse with leadership.

Full disclosure: I'm a Yankees fan (sorry Fenwaysouth).

That being said, I thought Terry Francona was an amazing manager, and I think they pulled the trigger on him prematurely. The Red Sox got off to a bad start last year, and they made a huge comeback and were just shy of the playoffs (we were at the O's/Sox game that was the demise - - most incredible baseball night ever).

I have trouble understanding why that lead to Francona's dismissal and not roster changes . . .and maybe I didn't follow Francona's various managerial strategies closely enough, but from what I could see, he seemed like everything any team would want in a manager and a human being.

As a Yankees fan I was glad though because I had a really strong gut instinct about how things would play out this season . . .but actually find I'm missing the suspense of the best rivalry in baseball.

quote:

I have trouble understanding why that lead to Francona's dismissal and not roster changes

The players were tuning Francona out. Pat Riley once said eventually you run out of ways to motivate the same core and it's time to move on. Francona also had health issues and a crumbling marriage. Management was concerned he was too distracted to continue. Francona's health has been an issue for a few years.

Hey RJM - not to be rude...but,I am aware that MLB has guidelines. Do you think I rolled off a turnip truck this morning?!

I just am stating my opinion that anyone using performance enhancing substances, and cheating, should be banned for life.

And now we have Victor Conte (BALCO) surfacing again with his observation after talking with players; "the use of synthetic testosterone" is being widely used." Those aren't his exact words, but he was inferring that there are likely more than just a few still cheating!

quote:

Anita said.....but actually find I'm missing the suspense of the best rivalry in baseball.

Anita,

I'll second that, but it is no contest this year. The Red Sox are showing up to a Yankee street fight with a butter knife.

The stange part about all of this is.... I blame the front office, and the players. End of story. I'm well aware of Valentines shortcomings, but frankly he's had little to do with this transformation from World Series contender to top 17 out of 30 MLB teams (ranked by USA Today). It's like the franchise fell off a cliff.

So, what does a life long Red Sox fan (going out of his mind) do? He goes to Nats games. Look for me on TV tomorrow night against the Mets. We'll be down the 1st base line with beer and hotdog in hand.

It looks like the whiner (Gonzalez), the indifferent (Beckett) and the fraud (Crawford) are on their way out of town. Yippee!!! These are contracts I never thought the Sox would get out from under.

Gonzalez is a perpetual whiner (too many Sunday night games, God's will we choked in September, the manager is mean to me). He was the one who took Pedroia's cell and texted management. Beckett has acted like he doesn't care for two years. Crawford can't handle the pressure of playing in Boston. There was an article yesterday saying Crawford takes to heart everything the media says about him. It means he can't play in Boston and a few other cities.

I saw a great description of Valentine today. He's like the fourth car in a ten car wreck. He didn't cause the wreck. But he made it a lot worse. At the majors level the manager's job is to manage the egos, not have the largest ego.

quote:

It looks like the whiner (Gonzalez), the indifferent (Beckett) and the fraud (Crawford) are on their way out of town. Yippee!!! These are contracts I never thought the Sox would get out from under.

This is too good to be true. Pinch me.

The sad thing is Blood and Guts Punto is expected to be part of the trade. The Sox should call up Iglesis and put him in the lineup. Given if he's supposed to be the next Ozzie Smith defensively, if he hits .220, great. If he hits .120 give him a shot next spring and if it doesn't work out, move on and put Ciriaco at short. Aviles should be a utility player. The only good thing out of this year was finding out Middlebrooks is legit.

Growing up I latched on to two teams, the Red Sox in the American League and the Dodgers in the National League (note the evil Yankees connection here!)

So I win AND lose in this trade.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Growing up I latched on to two teams, the Red Sox in the American League and the Dodgers in the National League (note the evil Yankees connection here!)

So I win AND lose in this trade.

The Dodgers lose huge in this trade.

1) Beckett is over the hill. He's had arm problems four of the last five years. He has a horrible, me first attitude. For two years he's had a "if the fans don't like it, then @#$% them" attitude.

2) Crawford was a horrible sign. You don't sign a 29yo speed player to a seven year deal that runs until he's 36. Now he has all kinds of injury problems. Plus he takes everything the media says to heart. TJ Simers will eat him alive.

3) Gonzalez choked after the all-star break last year (30+ rbi's after the all-star break). This year he was a .265 hitting singles hitter until the Sox were out of the race. He's a whiner and complainer who may be best suited playing for a loser in a town where the media doesn't care.

4) The Dodgers would be picking up a lot of long term liability. I would be happy if the Sox just waived Beckett and Crawford and someone took their contracts. Gonzalez has trade value. The trade may be if you want Gonzalez take out the trash with you.

I prefer the good ole days when the Dodgers had the best Farm System in baseball and had a potential Rookie of the Year candidate on the field each year. We'll likely never see anything like that again...But thank God Frank McCourt is gone and Magic & the new Super Ownership is in place for the Blue Crew! It looks like the Dodgers are the Yankees of the West!!??

As for the trade, I wanted the Dodgers to go after Gonzo two years ago, but the aforementioned McCourt wasn't going to spend any money while he was in his divorce proceedings. Adrian Gonzalez is from East San Diego and I believe his family still resides there? Coming back to SoCal will help him tremendously, and he's no doubt the first baseman the Dodgers have been searching for quite sometime...and I don't anticipate any "whining" out here, the Padres fans loved him! If Beckett is healthy, he will thrive at Dodgers Stadium, one of the best pitchers ballparks in the Majors. I'm excited to see how he pans out...we'll take him! Punto is a s c r a p p y player along the lines of Jerry Hairston, who's currently on the DL for the Dodgers. I don't know why LA agreed to take on Carl Crawford and his contract? Perhaps a deal wouldn't be made unless they took on his $$$$? I'd be happy with him if it wasn't for the fact LA just picked up Shane Victorino in a trade, and signed Kemp & Ethier to long term extensions.

The RedSox are receiving some good young talent from the Dodgers and unloading some Hefty contracts, so who knows how this will turn out? I really like Jerry Sands. The Dodgers brought him up a couple different times the past two seasons, and BeanTown is going to like how he plays the game...he has that Youkilis mentality. DeJesus comes from very good MLB bloodlines. James Loney is a Class Act, and I'm hoping that a change in scenery will help him. I don't know much about the young pitcher, Webster, but Rubby De La Rosa pitched versus the Giants a few nights ago. He is a year removed from TJ surgery and was pitching in the mid 90's in a relief appearance the other night, but lacked command. I understand that he was sitting in the upper 90's & touching 100 last year prior to his UCL tear.

Being a Dodgers fan today is Absolutely much better than the last few years!

Go to 1:25 to see how Carl Crawford plays

Game, heck that, the season is on the line, he makes a WEAK attempt to catch that ball then doesn't appear to realize the game-winning run is rounding third as he lobs it back in.

Good Riddance! Poor Dodgers.

.

"Hey TRhit... good to see you.
hope you are doing well."

My sentiment as well.



.

Looks to me like the Dodgers are throwing a long term lifeline to the Red Sox, taking on those poison pill contracts. Now the Dead Sox can really open their wallet in the free agent market.

Are the Dodgers nuts?

.

"Are the Dodgers nuts?"

Well technically they're not nuts.



.

Gotwood, I'm disappointed. It took you 8 whole minutes to come up with that photo.

You never cease to amaze me with your endless selection of photos, clips, etc. Thanks!

.

You're welcome!

.

quote:

Originally posted by hokieone:
Gotwood, I'm disappointed. It took you 8 whole minutes to come up with that photo.

You never cease to amaze me with your endless selection of photos, clips, etc. Thanks!

You should have seen the other picture he was going to post.

.





.

Yippie!!!! It's done. the trade

Talent wise the Sox lost a first basemen who can't handle the glare of the bright lights and intense media coverage. It turned out he was one of the prime prima donnas behind the scenes. Punto is a great sub. But you don't build your team around subs.

Beckett has had two good seasons in the last five and missed several starts in five of the last six seasons. With Lackey out for the season Beckett became Boston's most detestible athlete. He's not dislike due to his performance. He's disliked due to his excuses, lack of personal accountability and golfing while on the DL with a shoulder problem.

Crawford is another who can't handle the bright lights and media scrutiny. Now he's injury prone and out ten months on the latest injury.

The cherry on the top would have been the Dodgers also taking Lackey. But he can return to being Boston's most detestible athlete. He's another who makes excuses, won't take personal accountability for his performance and had his wife served divorce papers right after she found out she had cancer.

Do the Dodgers need a manager? We have an egomanical manager to move as well.



I barely watched the Sox this season. I could see this stinker coming from spring training. I predicted 81-86 wins with the caveat it could be worse with injuries.

What on earth can the Dodgers be thinking?

Everyone in Dallas believes this frees up the Red Sox payroll to sign Josh Hamilton. Supposedly the mean value baseball GMs have put on Hamilton is 5 years $123m.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
What on earth can the Dodgers be thinking?

Everyone in Dallas believes this frees up the Red Sox payroll to sign Josh Hamilton. Supposedly the mean value baseball GMs have put on Hamilton is 5 years $123m.

The Sox aren't interested in Hamilton given the contract he's going to demand. There are questions of age, injuries and his occasional relapses. It frees them up to resign Ellsbury.

I'm doing my happy dance. Finally, the Red Sox have a future, and a clean slate (wiping away Theo's mistakes). There is no way they are considering Josh Hamilton after they just went through this. RJM is right, they will go after Ellsbury (free agent 2013) and others.

quote:

The Sox aren't interested in Hamilton given the contract he's going to demand. There are questions of age, injuries and his occasional relapses.

GOOD!