Please help with feedback on swing

Pete - I don't know any of the technical jargon these other guys speak but I like your swing. Short and compact. I see power and upper body strength. You already look like a college player. My only advice is not to over-think things and learn to trust your swing as it looks like it will get you were you want to go. On the video, it almost looked like you were going down a checklist or progression of things in your mind between each pitch. I am not sure it is as complicated as some would lead one to believe. See the ball and hit the ball. Good luck.

Cleveland dad

You are probably correct . He was trying some new things in the video. More open stance and starting out with his hands low at chest level and near the body before having them load back . Trying to emulate Bonds a little bit. Im sure he was concerned about his timing with this. Video was just shot yesterday.

Pete, your a good looking player with good bat speed. I have seen thousands of hitters prepare over the years, while this does not make me an expert, I do have a different view point than some. I was able to freeze a frame just after contact and it seems that your stride is very minimal. Nothing wrong with that if you started a little wider. But at contact you don't appear to be using your core and legs to your best advantage. I would like to see you start a little wider and then take that short stride, and maybe a little more bent at the knees. Why that makes a difference is when your core and legs are not utilized to their max, you may not be getting the drive out of the ball that you're looking for. When you popped up, I also noticed this lack of core and legs usage. While this is not meant to be a negative, its just my observation. I definitely see you thinking too much, looking around after each swing. The toe tap, is that something you've always done? If so, it may work as a timing mechanism for you, if not, it looks like a dance step taught at a school. What I mean is that it looks as though it(the step) may be a part of your focus when you're beginning to hit. The only focus must be on seeing the ball, timing it and swinging at it. The tap could actually be throwing off your timing. Again, these are just my observations and I hope they can help in some way. You do have a quick bat and I believe you will make the adjustments and have some success. Good luck to you.

just make sure you keep the weight on your back foot is on the inside, balls of your foot. You have a good power swing but it looks to me that your weight may be on the outside of your rear foot or even on your heel. But that is only for you to tell. Bend your knees a little more. When or if you change do one thing at a time before you give your swing and a complete overhaul.

Oh and take my advice for what its worth, its free and I am by far not a pro. But I can identify some power leaks because of the lessons I sat throught with my son and he tended to hit from his heels because of his weight distribution, to much weight over his back foot.


drill

Pete,

I agree with Coacric about the knee bend and width of your feet. The one major thing I see though is a problem I am working on with another 09' kid. He is a big kid like you and likes to hit HRs (I know, who doesn't). The problem is that he is trying to lift the ball out of the park instead of letting it happen because you are on plane and make great contact. I see you doing the same thing he did, just before contact you stand up real straight. You lose your power THROUGH the ball when you do that. I suggest going to page 3 of the "GOOD STUFF" thread in this forum and watch the top of Bonds' head and see that it doesn't raise throughout his swing. David Wright at the bottom of the page is also a good clip.

Two things to help are, have someone hold a long handled broom on the top of your head throughout your swing (just outside of the right handed batter's box behind a screen) the other is to try and hit nothing but line drives that land just over the infield everytime you take bp. You will still hit a few BOMBS, but it will be because it happened and not because you made it happen. You will also notice that those balls will be the farthest balls you've ever hit.

I like that you made the change to lower hands to start, but that's just a personal preference of mine and of my opinion that it is better to load up. I would like to ask you though, why did you make the switch? Also, why did you make the switch to an open stance? I would only say, don't make a change without a good reason and make the reason something that is a consistent problem and that the remedy is something that will be a permanent fix. Stay away from "quick fixes" because they will kill your natural swing.

Thanx for the responses so far guys . For now i will respond to some of your questions since my son is not around right now. Will suggest to him that in the future he get on this forum to discuss his swing so that i am not always speaking for him.

In the past he has always started from a hands back position and was usually pretty sucessful with it . For some reason --i couldnt really pinpoint it--this last year he seemed to be hitting way too many ground balls and not getting his bat on a good path thru the zone. He seemed to be chopping down on the ball instead of getting behind it and driving it. I didnt suggest to him that he make a change until just recently after reading thru many of these hitting threads and looking at the video clips over and over of most of the better lefty hitters--Bonds, Ortiz, Giambi , Howard , etc , etc. I realized that it might be better for him to get his hands and bat loaded into a better position to get behind the ball with the bat parralel a little sooner than he was. So he tried the bonds style just last week and he seems to like it. I noticed a difference right away the first time he tried it in the cage --he started to hit line drive after line drive. What you are seeing in the video is only his third or fourth attempt at swinging like this.

The toe tap that he is trying is something he has never done before so i know it doesnt look too smooth. Any suggestions on this ? keep working at it to refine it ..or scrap it ? Was trying to emulate bonds with his pre swing movement . Should he try to touch knees ?

He is very resistant to bending his knees more in his stance . I have tried repeatedly to tell him that it is a much better starting point than what he has now. I believe he needs more of a springing action from the get go. I point out to him that most of the big leaguers are up at the plate with knees bent big time .

He has always had somewhat of an open stance . He just started to experiment a little more open . I believe his hips are in better position to attack and get thru the zone . AS long as he remains disciplined he should be able to handle anything on the outer half of plate. Isnt this where the issue of shoulder tilt comes into play ?

Basically i have been telling him to stay on his back leg as long as he can and keep his shoulders closed . Do you see this in his swing ? Is this the correct way to go about it ?

Pete, remember that hitting is all about adjustments and I'm sure you'll find the ones that work for you. Most important is to be in the hitting zone at the right time to make contact. Sometimes less movement from stance to contact allows for more efficiency. I like to simplify hitting as being the act of getting the barrel on the ball in the qucikest most efficient way possible. That may simplify it too much for some of the techno-nerds here. But its only important on how you do after making contact, not so important as to how you look or where you start. MLB'ers of the past have proven that. There have been some pretty funky stances that have been successful hitters. So, find a starting point that allows you comfort and confidence, and then brings you to the hitting zone efficiently and produces successful contact. Once it becomes comfortable, it should become routine and you can stop thinking about what you're doing and focus on seeing the ball.

Pete and Sull - sending you a pm.

quote:

The toe tap that he is trying is something he has never done before so i know it doesnt look too smooth. Any suggestions on this ? keep working at it to refine it ..or scrap it ? Was trying to emulate bonds with his pre swing movement . Should he try to touch knees ?

I am not trying to act as a hitting expert, but touching knees always seemed to cause tons of problems for me this past spring. I started from a wider stance, and used a slow backward stride that sometimes got a little too far back. I was at my best when I was very close to pick up my front foot and bring it down in about the same place. I was able to get away with this because I started from a wider stance.

I am also a big lower half swing guy, when I try to use my upper body, I do nothing but pop up in the infield or hit slow ground balls. Thats just personal feeling about the topic, hope it works out for you.

Where are all the experts/gurus that are usually in this forum ? I was hoping for some more feedback ..including all the technical stuff . Was really hoping to hear from all of you . so if youre out there....

Im looking for any information that would be helpful.

To me it would seem bent knees is a better starting point than not bent .

Pujols seems to be a little more bent than bonds . other than that ..they seem to be alike.

I agree with Coachric. The wider stance will allow the bent knees to occur. A short stride gives you better bat control and allows you to shift weight to the back leg as you unload the power. You front leg will lock as the weight shift occurs and helps stabalize your swing. Control of the bat is most important and hitting the ball consistently on the sweet spot especially with wood.

The termsitting to me is what happens when the back leg collapses and the weight has shifhted back.

I think it depends on the pitch and the adjustment to it. The sitting is a result of the colapse of the rear leg and could vary quite a bit.
I have seen many successful hitters who do not follow accepted principals of hitting but a young guy should start with good basics.
Balance and control are very important and making good contact. I have hit a hard thrown ball out of the park with a checked swing that hit the sweet spot. The more you contact on the sweet spot the better hitter you are.
My son was never a great hitter. He had too many issues and really only wanted to pitch. One year I and another coach worked on him to level his swing. For several weeks he led the league in RBIs , hits and even hit a HR straight out centre field. H ejust didn't care about hitting. He at 13 asked when do they DH me ? I knew he was a lost cause.

Yes there is more to it. Even body type can influence it. I think hitters have to find what works for them. I tended to adjust to the ball coming in. I was extremely strong both lower and upper body. I also had a long stride which I got great power from. I sat late because of my stride and approach to the ball. We didn't have the sdvice back then that my son had. I tended to hit a HR or strike out a lot trying to crush the ball.

Blue dog
I would have to say that my son is sitting late --like bonds--not early. We have been experimenting the last week or so with bonds version of the stride and separate . Only now my son is employing starting with low hands --not high like he previously had--and a little bit of circle loading -little bit of a leg kick ( knee bent back toward the body and then out toward a stretched position while circle loading the hands back to a good position to get the bat thru the zone behind the ball . I cant tell you what a difference this has made . He has started to get his bat behind the ball better than i have ever seen him and he is driving everything i throw him. I know this is only batting practice and he will have to get the timing down once he faces game pitching ..but i am extremely encouraged by the results so far ..and so is he. I was throwing to him from about 40-45 feet at batting practice speed and he was hitting the ball 350-375 with wood . best ive seen him hit all summer .

In the video , you see him moving his shoulders a bit while waiting for pitch . Ive gotten him to stop that and just cck the bat with hands and wrists . maybe this will help create a better arc to the ball ?

In a weeks time , i have witnessed DRAMATIC improvement . Basically have created a much better swing plane ..a better path to the ball . that has been the key ..along with generating more power by employing a better loading system .

Isnt the hitter supossed to read the pitch while in the sit position ?

His fall season starts next week ...will keep you updated on his progress.

we might be saying the same thing , but in different words ..but i see him drawing his hands back and up as he is striding forward . Are you saying that as he is striding forward , that is when the " sit " occurs ?

Great clips ....ive gained more knowledge and insight thru all of the slo mo clips in these hitting threads and also by reading thru some of the great debates you and your compadres have had over the major league swing . Like ive mentioned before and im serious..some of the stuff provided here on this hitting forum is just as good if not better than visiting our local hitting instructor. I know ive learned more about the mechanics of the swing here than in years and years of sitting in on sons hitting lessons in person. I even enjoy trying to decipher your little riddles that you so often answer with . Its all invaluable stuff !!
thanx BD

very true statements dog ...I guess what im saying is that not only have i learned many things about the swing ..but that i have been able to pass it along to my son and been able to help him apply it solely from info i have gotten from this hitting forum. Much better and thorough than anything he has gotten out of any hitting lesson from said local instructors over the years. Unfortunate and somewhatwhat surprising statement i find myself making...but true nonetheless .

I see several areas worth bringing to your attention:

......

interesting comments bear

Son was only hitting that way for less than a week --in the process of trying different approach.
You wouldnt know whether he has ability or not to hit other way because i purposely did not throw him much at all to outer half .
FYI--he hits the ball extremely well oppo field...probably to a fault ..needs to work at being more aggessive . thats one of the things we were working on. I already know he can hit other way with power.
He wont be foot tapping anymore --was just experimenting with it.
You saw him get a little frustrated in the video because i ( dad ) was getting on him a little . little father/son thing going on. you will never see him react that way in game .
Im not out there trying to strike him out ....its called batting practice and we were attempting to work at something new.
If you are so sure you can make him look foolish at the plate just from watching a video clip ..ill be happy to set it up for you .
He was swinging wood in the video. He ALWAYS works out with wood .

You are entitled to your opinion ..after all that was the purpose of posting in the first place ...I just find some of your comments --b-d-e and f --kind of comical .

Heres something i believe ---If he ever gets the chance to face you on the mound ...hes going to take your head off with wicked line drive ..no matter what you throw up there.

Everybody would love to be able to hit like Pujols ..hit for lots of power without a lot of movement. Believe me , i understand the difference between what bonds does and what pujols does. Like i stated before, my son was hitting with high hands ..we made this change because he was not getting behind the ball in good fashion anymore for whatever reason. To me it seemed like high hands = dead hands ...for him anyway. No sense in staying with ol reliable if its obvious the results are no longer going to be there. Since we shot that video , we have been working to fine tune things a bit and he has been coming around real nicely . Ive seen DRAMATIC iomprovement . His bat path to the ball is so much better than before ...that was critical . I had no doubt that if he put the work in , he would be successful at pulling off the change in style. No more toe tap . Just a stride and separate . Will he have to work on his timing once he starts to face live pitching this fall ? ...absolutely . Im confident the success and improvement he has gotten so far in BP will no doubt translate to game speed .

Anytime a hitter tries to implement new or different mechanics ..it is going to take time and lots of work ..whats not to understand about that ?

Hitters are always trying to change , adapt , evolve , progress to try to get better . With hard work ..one can achieve their goals .

Fan you have been paying attention. I agree with your comments especially for young hitters who have to develope strength.

There is an old saying "If it aint broke dont fix it."

That does not apply to hitting. Hitting is a constant search to continue to make adjustments and continue to learn more. When you think you have arrived and you think you are where you need to be the game will let you know how wrong you are. It is very important for players to understand that they must constantly work on their swing and their approach.

Nothing was ever said about not working on your swing. I IMO think you shouldnt change too many things at one time. My son has and does work with a hitting coach. they work on all types of things besides swing, he makes adjustments and has learned to make adjustments when needed.
In the video the hitter kept looking back at his hands, now my son did that when he was working on something a while back, he looked back to see where his hands were. But the poster talked about changing his hands, where he loaded, feet, a bunch of things that I think are too many at one time. but too each his own . I hope it works well and he becomes a great hitter.When the pitch is thrown and its a 90mph fast ball or a nasty slider you wont have time to think where are my hands, when am I loading, am I going to tap my feet, look back at hands to make sure they are where they are.
Just hopefuuly your reinforcing alot of tee work so muscles remember all the changes. Thats my opinion. and as I said OPINIONS aret wrong they are opinions. But Blue dog most of this post is between you and the original poster. he asked for more opinions and as soon as you get one you tell me Im wrong.

My post was not directed an anyone but just a general statement that I believe to be true. I have seen too many hitters over the years that failed to make adjustments because they had it going good. And then when it started going bad they had no idea how to make adjustments. You can have all the instructors in the world but the hitter must understand the importance of constantly making adjustments and growing as a hitter.

You can go from the penthouse to the outhouse very quickly in this game. You have to have the mental ability to make adjustments and you have to be willing to do so.

Watch the LLWS. Watch the swings of many of those kids. Those swings that are allowing them to have success with that little league bat against LL pitching will not be the same swing that will allow them to have success at the quality hs level and above. One could say "Hey if its not broke dont fix it." Just hold on and keep doing what your doing and it will be broke soon enough.

Fan

The thing is ..you assume son is going to have a problem implementing these changes when it comes time to use it in game action. You assume this just because he did not look completely comfortable in the video . Once again , keep in mind ..that was only his third time putting those changes to use . We probably should have waited until the swing was a bit more refined before posting it on you tube and asking for feedback , but whats done is done. If i didnt think he was capable of adding some movement to his approach to help him become better hitter --and execute these movements-- I wouldnt have him do it and he wouldnt have gone for it either if he didnt have the confidence in himself . He no longer toe taps ..no longer checks his hands every swing ( by the way ..there are some major leaguers who do this --watch fukodome --cubs ) , no longer moves his shoulders while waiting ---ccks the bat with handa and wrists instead , and is starting to get the timing down . Like you have heard on this thread ..hitting is about constantly making adjustments ..and that is what we have done --and still doing --while working on his swing .

Every change we have made ...was made for a reason ..not just for the sake of change . Like stated before .we have already after a couple weeks time noticed dramatic improvement . Have gotten positive results from said changes . Son said he will have no problem having this success from BP sessions transfer over to game speed . He is natural hitter with tons of ability .

FYI--He plays on one of the top 17u programs around --illinois sparks--and he knows what a 90mph fastball and a nasty slider looks like ..he sees it quite often ..east cobb- jupiter to name a few venues ..and more than capable of hitting it .

Has been told by those who know --definitely a D1 hitter . we are excited about his future .

sulltiger,

I am glad your son is a great hitter. I am glad you are an expert at hitting. I am glad your son is on one of the top teams in the country.I hope only the best for your son. The one thing I am not glad about was ever offering my opinion becasue you and blue dog jumped my ship pretty quickly. My son is also a good hitter and was all state this year.
You ask for opinions and then seem offended when someone offers a different one. I really do not have the mental energy for this type of post. it is not benefiting me in anyway and obviously my posts have not benefited you either. so i throw the towel in to you and the other expert and say goodbye and goodluck. I trully hope your son improves his game because after all that is what this web ste is for.

Didnt take offense

I am no more an " expert " than you . I am sure we both have watched our sons take hundreds of hitting lessons and gained some knowledge from their instructors.

Arent you going a bit overboard with the " great " comment ..never said that nor insinuated it .

Just wanted to give you some background as to what level of play he plays at . for all you know ..he could be a recreational player.

None of us can predict the future based on watching a few swings . that was my point.

I disagree with you stating that a player should be afraid of changing a few things and will then fail because of it. With hard work ..a good hitter will figure it out.

you cant back out on this thread at this point ..once your in .your in for the long haul

Sulltiger,

I never said anything about changing a FEW things I said I didnt think hitters should change too much. You are right that good hitters will make the correct adjustments to continue to be good hitters and i agree hitting is constant work. My son swings off his tee every day, sees a hitting instructor and works on hitting all the time. Good hitters do. I just gave my opinon on the video you showed in which you asked for our opinons. maybe now that he has worked through some of the changes you should put up a new video so posters can see the changes made after some practice and work.I think we are both parents who care about their boys who both seem to work hard at their game and that is whats most important. lots of other parents are bailing thier kids out of trouble and were debating their swings. In the long run Im sure they are both good boys with a true love for the game, again i wish your son a ton of luck going into his senior year. Ours was a blast and we won sections for the first time everin schools history. Take it all in and enjoy every game becasue it goes by so fast. My son will be starting college next week and going to the next level of baseball where Im sure theyre will be more to learn and adjust to on and off the field.

also I wasnt being sarcastic when I said great hitter. great to me means hes swinging the bat well, hes on a good team so he has to have talent, he had good stats for a junior. thats a great hitter to me.and hes working on his game. thats all great to me. just my word nothing more.

No problem fan

thanx for taking the time to offer your opinion ...whether i agreed or not . maybe it was just the way you presented it in your initial post ..but no matter . there is no right or wrong on here for the most part. I guess i just didnt agree with someone saying --basically--you cant do it ..thats how it came off . good luck to you and your son. please dont leave on my account .

quote:

Originally posted by sulltiger24:
interesting comments bear.......
Heres something i believe --- ...hes going to take your head off with wicked line drive ..

--------------------------------

Unbelievable. A HS Daddy asks: "Would really appreciate any comments/feedback/suggestions"

Must be the water (in wherever you reside)
or yeah, Niles).

If a buck was presented for everytime I heard this, that SE Lamborghini Diablo VT 6.0 would look great, especially the red one, in the driveway. The Italians didn't make one with enough seating for you pal!

Good luck to you and your son.

Regards,
Bear

postscript: My offerings have been removed.
And since you probably don't even root for the Cubbies, bring your fricking duckies. But first, suggest you get your heart, lipids and blood sugar checked.

I tend to see things like fanofthegame who I think makes good points.

I have some questions about adjustments. I agree they need to be made. There are mechanical adjustments and strategic/tactical adjustments. In other words, someone might tweak their swing when adjusting or they might tweak their approach (strategy) or both. At the higher levels of baseball, scouting occurs. If you have previous success pulling the ball down the line all the time, they will take that away from you. If you go oppo all the time, they will take that away from you. If you prove you are a good fastball hitter, you will start seeing more breaking balls and vis versa. My question is when it is time to make an adjustment, should people be questioning their mechanics or their approach? Obviously, it depends. Lots of hitters find they have to make some mechanical adjustments when they first get to college or pros or at the upper levels of high school for that matter. What confuses me about this hitting forum is that the advice seems to be skewed entirely toward mecahnical adjustments and that may perhaps be barking up the wrong tree imho. In other words, fixing the wrong problem.

Ted Williams said the best advice he ever got was from Rogers Hornsby who told him to find a good pitch to hit. That speaks to approach rather than mechanics. When you read the Science of Hitting by Williams, he seems to spend more time talking about approach rather than mechanics imho.

In this forum, things seem to be done in reverse. A good hitter is identified, then his mechanics are disected, and then those identified elements of the swing are used as models to define the ideal technique. What if it is no more complicated than Barry Bonds or Albert Pujols have better hand/eye coordination than the average player? Maybe discussing when a player "sits" is meaningless in that context. How come George Brett's swing looks so much different yet his results were off the charts? What about Musial or 100 others whose swings do not look like Bonds or Pujols?

IMHO, the ability to hit a baseball consistently is a God given gift encompassing a number of skill sets very difficult to learn, such as hand-eye coordination.

If you have the gift, you know it. It can be perfected through hard work and dedication. The mental aspect can be learned by a gifted hitter who is mentally mature to deal with constructive criticism. (Easier said than done)

You however, IMHO cannot take a person who is interested in the game, may love the game and work hard at it...you cannot take someone who does not poses the "gift" beyond the high school level.

I agree with ClevelandDad, the mental aspects of hitting, the approach, the ability to "read" pitches, the presence, the ability to remain focused after taking a pitch high and tight, the fearlessness. These are the intangibles of the art/science of hitting that are difficult to instruct and understand, yet so very important for the success of a hitter.

quote:

What if it is no more complicated than Barry Bonds or Albert Pujols have better hand/eye coordination than the average player? Maybe discussing when a player "sits" is meaningless in that context. How come George Brett's swing looks so much different yet his results were off the charts? What about Musial or 100 others whose swings do not look like Bonds or Pujols?

Every great hitter looks very close to the same at "GO" (yes, even the ones you mentioned). There is a BEST way to get to that position, but some can't duplicate the movements for various reasons. If you were talking about JUST making contact, I would say the hand/eye coordination thing would be true and they ALL do have that, but they have power and that has NOTHING to do with hand/eye coordination. I stress what the go position is in the swing and what good contact position is and try to let them get there on their own, if they don't, I try to get them there in a way they can understand. Those ways are different for different people. To me, that is an instructor's job.

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
IMHO, the ability to hit a baseball consistantly is a God given gift encompassing a number of skill sets very difficult to learn, such as hand-eye coordination.

If you have the gift, you know it. It can be perfected through hard work and dedication. The mental aspect can be learned by a gifted hitter who is mentally mature to deal with constructive critisism. (easier said then done)

You however, IMHO can not take a person who is interested in the game, may love the game and work hard at it...you can not take someone who does not posess the "gift" beyond the high school level.

I agree with ClevelandDad, the mental aspects of hitting, the approach,the ability to "read" pitches, the presance, the ability to remain focused after taking a pitch high and tight, the fearlessness. These are the intangibles of the art/science of hitting that are difficult to instruct and understand, yet so very important for the success of a hitter.

I agree with your statements and this is what I tell my students and their parents. I can only teach them to swing, not to hit the ball. I can honestly say that when they do make solid contact, the ball will go farther.

Bear

you felt a need to issue some silly challenge in your initial post and you didnt like my response . If you cant back up your words you shouldnt post **** like that . Why did you remove it ? You must have thought twice about being way way over the top critical with absolutely nothing beneficial to say . If indeed you ever did play this game ...you must not have had much success . Most people know how to use constructive critisism without posting like you did.

You calling me HS "daddy" ..is that suppossed to hurt me somehow ? Are you trying to suggest that you might have more knowledge than me ?

I guess this means son wont get that chance to face that cheese of yours that you were bragging about.

Guys

there is only one way to determine whether a player needs to make some adjustments in his hitting mechanics . You would need to watch the player over a long period of time to see what he is doing at the plate . The fact that i suggested to son to make some changes didnt just happen overnite because of a few poor at bats . This happened after his spring and summer season --basically a 5 month period . Wasnt utilizing his god given ability to the fullest . Actually , i would go so far as to say that his mechanics were hampering him.

Now at this point ..after working at it ..he is starting to see how the rest of his body ( core and lower half ) can help him become better hitter than he was . Also can see how a better bat path thru the zone is going to make big difference . Tended to rely on upper body too much .

You guys make some excellent points on the mental and physical aspects of hitting and i understand where you are coming from.