Poll: No steroid users in record books

Have they named the users Drivel or are you going to? If you did not get admissions yestersay you may never them.

Heard an interesting comparison today--do we wipe out all the records that the white players set prior to baseball becoming desegregated? Many of the great black players never got to the bigs and who knows what they would of done had they had a Big League Career. Many would probably be in the Hall of Fame. Satchel Paige was successful and he pitched in ther bigs when he was in his 50's

Now that is food for thought isn't it? You may not agree with the resoning but it certainly made me think about it

Stats are too intertwined and interdependant; purging stats would make a joke of all stats. As TR said, there's the integration issue. Then there's expansion --- would there be a factor for those years?

Even limiting it to steroid users (ignoring that we're deciding who used without proof -- they weren't tested, we'd need confessions ar credible witnesses), shall we then amend the pitcher's stats that threw to them? Their ERA should go down. (Even Lima when he admitted to grooving a few to Sosa in '98? ) How many of their hr were "steroid-induced"? All? 50%? 75%? 30%? Would Runs Scored or RBIs for teammates be impacted?

This whole issue could be derailed or distracted by getting all concerned about what happened in the past. Zero tolerance NOW will get the vital message across.

Congress issue is MLB knew they had a problem and did nothing to fix it. It took a SI article, Blaco and Canseco book to get MLB to do anything and even with all the attentionl There new policy is still a joke.

You want anything done, have the MLB fan base all write and call the Bud Selig and say unless you put in place tough drug policy they will not attend any MLB games. Hit them in the pocket book. The only thing they understand

Dibble: You don't need to flood the forum with new thread after new thread of different reports on the same story.

Put them all in the same thread .... it might be more meaningful to someone and a lot easier to follow the sequence of events, stories, rumors and innuendos.

Drivel

I think the posters on here read well enough and have seen the articles you post

Perhaps one day you will post something original--you have gone from cut and past to links which I see as progress for you-- now lets see if you can be original in your thought process.

TR I dont think you or anyone else knows what other people are thinking. If people want to read links they can click on the posts, if not they dont have to.

Just wondering how did you manage to voice your opinion on everything before message board were created.Inquirying minds like to know,

Have you ever see Grumpy Old Men?

I think there is a luv/hate relationship going on here. IMO

I'm not sure I understand what "white" players did that was illegal to get the records they achieved. If it can be proven that they broke rules which allowed them to make and break
records then certainly they should be removed from the record books. Not gonna happen in either case, because as Orlando states all records and stats will be affected.

I think it would behoove us all not to bring the issue of "racial discrimination" into a
discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The question in my mind is do we, as parents and fans, continue to accept and admire players
in all sports that thumb their noses at us and say "I'll do whatever I want to do with my
life because I know you all will continue to walk through the turnstiles no matter what the price."

Is gov't intervention the answer? I don't know, but it's for sure baseball is not going to
clean up the drug situation on its own any time soon.

Moc

I was only pointing out what was mentioned on a major sports network--- it is not racial discrimination--it is a simple fact thay many great black players never competed at the time many records were set--I thought it was an interesting view in light of the discussion on asterisks on records

You can't go back and apply punishement to a 'crime' retroactively . Let's say the feds find Bonds used steroids illegaly. Basebal can't just arbitrarily apply a punishement that wasn't already in their by-laws.

As for the future. The policy should be:
Get caught the first time- one year supsension.
Get caught 2nd time- lifetime ban.
That sends the message.

The five strike policy is a joke.

Fay Vincent the retired Baseball Commisioner made an interesting statement this morning regarding Babe Ruth-- in actuality since Ruth as known as a heavy drinker, he was using an illegal substance during his career

is that by baseball policy or by law?

Neither alcohol nor steroids are illegal substances.

They are legal subsatnces which can be used illegally.

phillyfan

In the prohibition era when Babe Ruth played booze was illegal by law just as anabolic steroids are illegal by law today

TRhit - you have a PM

There is a difference between alcohol and steroids, even though alcohol might have been illegal during the Ruth era. I don't think that anyone on this board feels that alcohol can improve a players performance. Ruth might have hit 800 homeruns if he had benn sober or not hungover for games. Even with that said, I don't think that the records should be eliminated of those accused of Steroid usage. How do we know when they were using? How do we know how much it helped them? I certainly feel those records are tainted, but to what extent will be hard to prove. Just my opinion.

33

That is exactly the point that Fay Vincent was making--his remark about Ruth was sort of tongue in cheek