Position players who pitch are the best players on the team.

No

Depends how good is the team? He may the only available option.

In most cases as a player moves up in the caliber he's playing against reality sets in for both player an parent.

Except in that freak case, position players and pitchers eventually separate and work on specific skill sets. In LL and HS you will see this "best player" senario with many, if not most teams. This throne some players are put on can lead to a nasty fall when the blinders come off.

He may be a great player, but my limited experience suggests that he'll be one of the team's worst pitchers.

Has he ever pitched with bases loaded while blowing a lead? Real pitchers--even good ones--have, and survived it.

Li,
JMO, you got it mixed up. Pitchers who are asked to play position and placed in the batting order are usually the best players on the team (not necessarily the most valuable). Your son being the best on the team because he can play both is not the norm in most cases. This scenerio will not make him any more attractive to a coach or scout, unless he becomes the countries homerun king, throws 95mph, has more than three pitches in his arsenal and has a BA over 500 and is fast as lightening.
Most pitchers at one time or another have ususlly played almost every position there is, one of the reasons they have that uncanny "overrated" baseball instinct.
Many parents think their sons are the best on the team anyway, regardless of position.

I think starting pitchers who are asked to be position players are the best.

"Up here where I live" at the big, all boys, Division 1 HS level all players declare their position at the outset of freshman year...if you are a position player you will condition as such...if you are a pitcher then you will condition separatley...pitchers do not hit as a rule...another thing that also occurs "up here" is the lack of bravado...no one sits and expounds the virtues of their own child compared to the others....sort of falls under the realm of how to make enemies and lose friends for both you and your child...it may be thought but is not verbalized..."up here"

Something is wrong here---my kid was the best player on his team, ask anyone, but nobody ever asked him to pitch

A good coach will not use a INF as a P nor an OF as a INF. Nor would he put a C as an INF, nor as a P.

The throwing motions for each of those positions are different and require different mechanics.

The long-arm throwing motion, is not good for INF positions that use a short-arm, more efficient, throwing motion versus the C position that uses a quick-snap throwing motion. Those three throwing motions usually are not naturally acquired and are taught.

But in the case where you have a kid playing INF, P, and C it is important that they use the correct throwing motion for the position they play.

I don’t think there is any correlation between pitching and position players. I agree some players have the ability to be great pitchers, some players have the ability to be great hitters, and some players have the ability to play great defense and on occasion some players are blessed with more than one ability. I also think that all players have some degrees of “greatness” at every spot on the field...but...to make the deduction that the position player that is asked to pitch somehow qualifies him as the best player on the team, (whatever that means) sounds like some parent clad in rose colored glasses making an attempt to create a sense of security in their son getting to the next level. I suggest that all parents take their sons to a showcase or a camp and let them compete in front of those that are “in the business” of making proper evaluations and then heed the advice given by those evaluators. We parents need a good dose of reality on occasion so we can at least help our sons make the right decisions.
IMHO,
Fungo

Because of the ware on his arm I would be very careful of what other positions a starting pitcher plays.

A few other things

A strong arm does not a pitcher make nor do instincts--pitching is a package of arm, control and brains

PIC,
You are right about what a good coach does. However to some it is about winning the game, put in whoever can "throw" the ball. And down here they do the same as catchermom says, if you are a pitcher, you pitch , however last year in HS, we needed arms so badly, anyone who could throw a ball without hitting anyone stepped in when called upon.

I don't think all of this is true, just enough to get a healthy discussion going. JMO

I think the point is that pitchers usually are the strongest arms on the team and as a result are typically very good position players at the HS level. You'll find that the majority of any major league roster is filled with position players that pitched at one time or another.

For Little League, I believe the statement is true.

But at the higher levels, I don't. For instance, there is the scenario wjere a coach pulls a position play off the field to pitch because he doesn't hit well and/or is weak defensively. I have seen position players "turned into" pitchers because their arm was good but they were struggling elsewhere in their game.

At the college level, tho there are some players who pitch and play defensively elsewhere, we have found that most "two way players" discover ... as our son's college coach said ... that they are doing two "full time jobs" and eventually, one gives way to the other because the player finds it difficult to juggle both.

Not True! I can cite several players that I played with and coached that didn't pitch and were clearly the best. In fact, I can cite a couple that never pitched until they went off to college and then, they had matured to the point that they signed professionally as pitchers. David Crouthers who might be up with Balitmore before the year is out was an outfielder and never pitched. Joe Silkwood back in the early 80s was a catcher and his Dad never would let him pitch. He signed and played AAA Ball for the Cardinals as a pitcher. In n my opinion, in both cases, neither of these players would have been successful pitchers earlier in their lives due to several issues.

This is a joke right? I have coached in High School quite a long time and I have yet to see a High School team with a pitching staff that does not play the field. I you have a five man staff in High School at least four of the five and sometimes all five will play a posistion. The catcher could be the best player on the team. The ss that does not pitch might be the best player on the team or the cf. I really think that we need to separate the Little League and Rec ball from the High School and College conversations.

Coach May, only one of our starters will play the field this year. He is a catcher and will seldom be used. Right now, he is projected as being our #5. Last year, only two of my top six played the field. The year before that... well, you get the point. Perhaps we are weird. However, at a school of only 1,200 kids, we seem to pull this off. I will say this, we are blessed because we seem to be able to take care of their arms because we can structure their throwing programs since we don't have to worry about them playing the field.

quote:

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have a five man staff in High School at least four of the five and sometimes all five will play a posistion.

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How big is that school? We have about 1600 enrollment and a pitching staff of about 7-8. Only 2-3 do more than pitch. Those tend to be big seniors who can hit .350 or better.

We have a high school population of about 125, and in a good year we might have 17 kids come out for baseball....so there is not a high level of specialization in our case. Pitchers play positions and hit. Last year 8 of the 9 starters took a turn on the mound, with our shortstop having the best success. In some years we will no no real pitchers (last year was such a year) so we will cobble together a workable staff.

Two upsides of this dilemna are that pitchers know what it is like to have a pitcher work too slowly or give up lots of walks, and fielders understand how frustrated pitchers become when sloppy defense is played behind them.

1,200 enrollment. We will carry anywhere from 15-18 on a given year on varsity. In my area most of the pitchers are usually some of your better posistion players. Not always but most of the time. I would love to have a (pitching staff) that did not have to play the field. But usually there will be maybe one at the most two guys that pitch and dont play the field. That is usually the case with most of the teams in my area including the larger schools of 1,500+ enrollment. I guess different areas do different things.

If you're speaking in terms of LL, then playing several positions is not uncommon since the youngsters are finding their legs.

However, at the HS level, and starting with the freshman players, coaches should begin to help a player learn a correct throwing motion for the position the player is playing.

If a player is playing INF then the throwing motion for an infielder should be taught, as well if you bring the kid in to pitch the throwing motion for a pitcher should be taught and if the kid is playing the outfield then the proper throwing mechanics for an OF should be taught.

For me it is a safety issue to assure that the player's arm is being given every chance not to suffer an injury due to improper throwing mechanics.

Specialization is a little troubling to me.

I coach the High School team, but play in an 18+ MABL league on the weekends. You would not believe the number of guys in our league who can ONLY pitch, and obviously not well enough to be getting paid for it.

At 39 I am still playing almost every inning, despite not having any great physical gifts, because I am able to play 8 of the 9 positions (catching is not one).

If all of our players went on to make a living in the game I could accept the call for specialization, but I want them to still be playing when they are old men.

I expect my shortstop to throw like a shortstop from the mound, and am not obsessive about mechanics, so long as he is challenging hitters. If I have a kid who wants to really focus on pitching mechanics, we will usually find him a spot at 1st, in a corner outfield position, or at DH, but we cannot afford to have a kid just sit when he is not on the mound.

IMO there is huge difference between a Pitcher who can play another position, and a position player that pitches, closes or is the 4-5 guy. I would guess that in the top 500 players on BA list that 200 have pitched in HS, and of the pitchers listed in the top 500, I would say 75% have played another position in HS.

It will change for the majority in College, but in HS you play the game. Actually, most colleges that we talked with before signing, wanted my son to continue to DH, and play 3B. Alot of these talented kids are also a captain.

They need to be a large part of the team if they can play. If a player chooses to only pitch or play a position that is their choice. Winning isn't everything, but playing is in HS.

Tiger3Boy,
A little different angle...For the most part I agree that players should learn, and play, as many positions as possible because it normally opens more doors and allows that player make a greater contribution to the success of his team ... but... at the same time this approach can work against the marginal high school player. Many high school players wanting to progress to the college level need to improve a single skill to make them college material. Colleges are not recruiting players that can play a multitude of positions "fairly well" but are looking for players that play one position really well. I get the feeling that there are some high school players that have become a "Jack of all trades... master of none" and by doing this have lessened their opportunities in getting on a college roster because they have not developed that one skill that stands out. I don't advocate a player or a parent telling the coach where the boy will play but there are methods that can help determine the position a player plays. I firmly beleive the player and his parents have the greatest impact in developing a player's skills.
Fungo

It is always a tough choice.

My shortstop has gotten interest from UCLA and UCSB, so this year he will be used very little, if ever on the mound, mainly because I want to make sure he has the best chance to make the jump.

Ours is a special situation because of our small numbers. If we had a large talent base I would take a completely different approach.

I have an incoming freshman lefty who has had extensive private instruction. He will spend time either on the mound or at first, but there is no need for him to move to another position.

I am with Coach May, we have about 1,700 enrollment at our HS and there are not too many pitchers that do not have to play a position when not pitching.

Most of our opponents have to do the same thing.

The roster is usually 15-18 players.

CV

The situation for most HS teams in our regions is NUMBERS---VERY FEW NUMBERS-- they are forced into using position players on the mound and vice versa---my concern is a kid pitching on Monday and then playing a field position the next day following a 100 plus inning outing

The team in our state who won the small school title last year did it with 12 polayers on the roster and their # 1 pitcher relgated to nothing but second base and hitting due to his arm problems-- Coach knew how to handle it and nobody got overworked in fact his # 1 pitcher was also a catcher and never pitcher for us during the fall-- no need to and we liked him better behind the plate at the level we were playing.

Just remmeber that it is not always the wish of the HS copach to do what he does--in many instances the numbers and the weather which can cauce back to back to back to back games in some weeks, force him into it --- at least here in our region.

Coach May, you are a class guy. When I left yesterday, I asked myself if my tone might not be offensive. I didn't intend for it to be. I'm glad you took it the right way. I was just saying what we do. I worry so much about hurting a kid's arm that if I can avoid playing pitchers at a position, then I do avoid it. Two players that also pitch have been the most we have ever had. Now having said that, we always have to throw a sophomore or two and each year, we have had to get a couple of innings out of a freshman. However, if that is the case, that freshman has been identified early and has done his bullpens and live arm to hitters with the varsity. We don't just run them out to get shelled. In our area, we are the norm and not the exception with regards to pitchers playing the field. If you drop to Class A (Illinois only has A and AA) then you find more of your situation. Class A starts around 780 enrollment. For all of you that can do that, I really admire your ability to do so and take care of the kid's arm. BTW, my SS only plays SS. However, he went down to the Perfect GAme Showcase a couple of weeks ago in Florida. They put him on the mound and he struck out the first couple of hitters. So he said, they were amazed that he did it. Yes, he would be very good on the mound. THE INSTANT I HURT HIM OR OVERUSE THAT ARM, I'D NEVER FORGIVE MYSELF.

Oh, we keep 18-20 on the Varsity.

We are very concerned with protecting our kids arms. And this causes you to make certain moves during the week when you have pitchers that are also posistion players. For instance #1 throws on Tuesday and we play on Thursday depending on his pitch count and how he feels he may sit on Thursday and DH. But he will be back in the line up on Friday if he feels ok. We do not put guys in the field if they have pitched the day before. We always have a utility player that can fill in for the posistion player that has pitched the day before. We never throw a kid on less than four days rest if he has thrown over 60 pitches and if he says that he is not ready. You just have to manage your guys and make sure your rotation is set up where you have your better pitching for you better competition. Most coaches do a great job of protecting kids arms. Hey I have always said there is just as much arm stress form letting one go from the hole at short as there is from the hill. Sitting out or dh is a great place for the posistion player that has been on the hill. Thats why it is important to have that utility guy that can fill the hole when needed.

In my experience, team's use position players to pitch simply because they otherwise don't have enough pitching.

You want to save and protect those pitching arms whenever possible.

The usual "battle" I often see is that pitchers also want to hit.

Best ss, one of the top 07 pitching prospects in the state 87-89 on the gun with command of three pitches. Also hit 454 as a Freshman. Best OF 05 85-88 command of three pitches hit in the lead off posistion last year 437. Best third baseman 08 83-86 nasty change and curveball. Hits for power from the left side. Best utility man ss 2b of pitcher. 84-87 outstanding stuff with four pitches. Fifth pitcher will not play the field much if any. 80-83 but has great command of his pitches and is very crafty an 06. I would say that we have pitching. We just are not good enough to sit four of our best hitters and fielders in order to say that we dont play our pitchers. By the way I don't want my guys to be just pitchers unless they just dont have the ability at all to play anywhere else and just can not hit. I want them to be baseball players. They might just have alot better chance to play at the next level if they can do more than pitch at the High School level.

Coach May, I envy you. We don't have one young man that can top 83. We might only have one that can reach 80. We hold tryouts. Everyone gets to fill out a questionair with the top 3 positions that they want to tryout for. Each will get to tryout for all 3 positions. The best plays. For us, it has just so happened that it works for us that we seem to have either pitchers or fielders. We do know that most of the time our DH will come from one of the pitchers. Hey, if any of you Coaches out there get tired of having so many kids that throw mid to upper 80s, send some to me. I'll remove the mirrors that we currently use to help us fool the hitters into believe that we have studs standing on the mound.

This is the deepest and strongest staff we have had here. Usually we have one maybe two guys that are mid to upper 80's. We are very fortunate right now. But hey we have won alot of games with guys that can locate and change speeds in the mid to upper 70's. We will see what happens this year.