Preferred Walk-on / Admissions

I'll just be honest....I don't know what school you're speaking of, but you've limited it to a half dozen or so.  Your son is a 2020.  Unfortunately those types of schools are already recruiting 2020's and the numbers you've mentioned aren't the numbers they are looking for.  The sub 7.0 isn't enough to be considered for an OF spot....and the 80 mph velos are both at least 10 mph too slow to even get him a serious look.  If he likes the school and can get in, he'll have a decision to make.  School or baseball.  Keep in mind that they kids they are recruiting as 2020's are already kids who could likely step in and play at other D1's right now....and they also have 2 years to grow and get stronger.  Again, not trying to seem harsh, just throwing out what we experienced.  As a soph in HS, my son was the same kid you're talking about....All State SS and starting P....unfortunately he was small.  He knew he had no shot at a school like you're suggesting at least for baseball.  He did grow....graduated HS at 6', 165....hitting 90 from the mound fairly regularly....but it was too late to be noticed by the big boys...and by then he had already found a school that "fit" him perfectly.  He's been there 3 years...and loves it.

Last thing....going to school to be a doctor....and playing baseball typically isn't a situation that's going to turn out well.  It's just far too much work on both parts to fit into a 7-day week.  Again, not trying to ruin dreams....but having a baseball dream and a doctor dream may end up being unreachable on both counts.

Yes, and I agree.  That stuff I know.  My question is specific to walk-ons.  And, I am not even asking if my shot is likely or not likely to get a walk-on spot.  My question is, do schools like I mentioned push applications through for a walk-on they know?  

Welcome! 

From my experience with my son we found out that D1 baseball and STEM are generally incompatible. Ivy's, Stanford, and a few others excluded.  Being a pitcher makes it much easier in the case of STEM also. There is tons of info on the Ivy's here so just search a little. 

He has plenty of time for D3's and I would start to focus there. Congrats on a good student he will get a lot more money from academic scholarships than he ever would from baseball. 

Best of luck in your search.

So much I want to say but I'll try to answer your specific question.  No, D1 coach is not going to push an application through for a true walk-on.  The coach, to whatever extent he has ability to help get a player accepted, will use that ability with the players he sees as most likely to be impact players for his program.   

Welcome to the site and good job on your 1st post.

To answer your question, Yes . Baseball Head Coach has pull with admissions. And just to clarify ; a 'preferred walk on' is a guaranteed roster spot thru the spring. Not thru the fall.

It sounds like your son has high aspirations beyond baseball. As BOF pointed out , NCAA baseball is far more demanding on a students day to day schedule than most can imagine. Very hard and impossible to fully comprehend until your son experiences it.

For recruiting exposure , A high academic kid does well at Stanford Camp and headfirst camps.

Lastly, as was pointed out earlier , 2020 recruiting class with power 5 schools and other top programs done or close. Also, unless your son projects for the 2020 MLB draft, those are not great schools to target in the recruiting process. Even if you a only seeking a walk on spot , the odds are slim. And if you could secure such a spot, your son shouldn't expect much playing time if any at all the first few years.

It's extremely hard to participate daily in an NCAA program and sit for 2 years. Most players can't do it and end up quitting baseball.

Lastly, a little unsolicited advice: Try to remember that you or your son never pick the school....THEY pick you. So, the whole idea is to be seen by as many schools as possible. Cast a WIDE NET.  And forget D1, D2 and D3. None of that matters . It's about finding the right fit academically , socially , financially and with baseball.

cabbagedad posted:

So much I want to say but I'll try to answer your specific question.  No, D1 coach is not going to push an application through for a true walk-on.  The coach, to whatever extent he has ability to help get a player accepted, will use that ability with the players he sees as most likely to be impact players for his program.   

Thank! Would be interested in your other feedback as well.

cabbagedad posted:

So much I want to say but I'll try to answer your specific question.  No, D1 coach is not going to push an application through for a true walk-on.  The coach, to whatever extent he has ability to help get a player accepted, will use that ability with the players he sees as most likely to be impact players for his program.   

I agree .....But they do push for preferred walk on academic money guys. Big difference between walk on and preferred walk on

Sounds like a great player.  I think you're getting good advice above on whether or not he's right for his dream school and what the chances are for walking on.    If that is not an option, what's next? Other D1's?  Patriot League?  High academic D3's?  A kid can definitely play at a high-academic D3 and go on to a professional school, including medicine.  There are a many, many threads here about D3 schools and D3 recruiting and a bunch of parents here who have been through it and have kids who are playing or are recent grads of wonderful D3 colleges and universities.  We'll be happy to help as best we can.

StrainedOblique posted:

cabbagedad posted:

So much I want to say but I'll try to answer your specific question.  No, D1 coach is not going to push an application through for a true walk-on.  The coach, to whatever extent he has ability to help get a player accepted, will use that ability with the players he sees as most likely to be impact players for his program.   

I agree .....But they do push for preferred walk on academic money guys. Big difference between walk on and preferred walk on

Bingo

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

cabbagedad posted:

So much I want to say but I'll try to answer your specific question.  No, D1 coach is not going to push an application through for a true walk-on.  The coach, to whatever extent he has ability to help get a player accepted, will use that ability with the players he sees as most likely to be impact players for his program.   

Thank! Would be interested in your other feedback as well.

You said...

"If he goes to the schools baseball camp and builds a relationship and tells them all he wants is a walk-on chance, preferred or not."

There are many past threads regarding walk-ons.  Your son should read up and make himself familiar with the realities.  A true walk on has very close to zero chance of sticking with a program such as what you describe in any scenario.  His current skill set measurables don't help at that level.  I'm not ruling out the possibility that he will grow into something closer to making the dream happen but trying to introduce the actual likelihood.

If, when the time comes, he asks for a walk-on chance, preferred or not, the best case scenario is likely that he get that chance as not preferred.  The only point to which I will slightly vary from Strainedoblique (a great person to follow here) is the discussion point about preferred walk-on.  Just a matter of terminology though... I have seen walk-on players receive promise of remaining thru the fall (at least preferred to an extent) and others promised a roster spot.  So, preferred can mean different things.  A true walk-on can and will likely be cut at any point, even after the first day of fall practice.

Depending on your son's willingness to give up baseball immediately after HS, I would really investigate further (which you are obviously doing here! ) before nudging him more toward the walk-on.  Try to remove the attachment you and your wife have to the school, at least while helping him navigate the baseball path.  I suspect he will have other much more solid baseball opportunities if he can find the right combination with his career direction.

Gov posted:

StrainedOblique posted:

cabbagedad posted:

So much I want to say but I'll try to answer your specific question.  No, D1 coach is not going to push an application through for a true walk-on.  The coach, to whatever extent he has ability to help get a player accepted, will use that ability with the players he sees as most likely to be impact players for his program.   

I agree .....But they do push for preferred walk on academic money guys. Big difference between walk on and preferred walk on

Bingo

Yeah, agreed... that's why I stated "true walk-on".  I took some liberty with that assumption matching up the OP's current described skill set with the stature of the program they describe.  

Based on what I have heard from my D3 kid and other D3 parents, "true walk ons"  usually don't make it past the first day of fall practices even at many D3 schools.

Texas has a walk on this fall that is touching 94 off the mound and has scouts buzzing.    his is a unique story though. 

Welcome.

Yes, a preferred walk-on can get help from a Coach with Admission.  There is a 2019 poster here whos' son is going through that with an elite baseball powerhouse.   It can be done, however the recruit has to have a tremendous upside and some bankable skills to get that opportunity.  Essentially, the coach is putting some skin in the game to help with Admissions and roll the dice that kid will take the opportunity, run with it, and produce.

A true walk-on is not going to get that help with Admissions.  The coach has no skin in the game.  Some elite programs don't even have tryouts so walking on is not an option.

Son played with a player in HS who was a "preferred walk on" at an ACC school. Had academic chops to get in outside of Baseball. Got about 5 ABs as a freshman.

Thanks all, this is very helpful feedback.  We are trying to not be locked into anything and just see what happens.  If he can play baseball and be a starter that is great. If baseball can help him get into a little better of a school and he barely plays that is ok also.  He can always switch gears and just focus on classes if baseball does not work out.  

Just fun to play as long as possible!  

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Thanks all, this is very helpful feedback.  We are trying to not be locked into anything and just see what happens.  If he can play baseball and be a starter that is great. If baseball can help him get into a little better of a school and he barely plays that is ok also.  He can always switch gears and just focus on classes if baseball does not work out.  

Just fun to play as long as possible!  

You have received some good info/advice and I agree that players without athletic scholarship but guaranteed roster spot are more likely to receive help with admissions process. I like your last response because I really believe that it is too early to lock into one school and/or attend camps and speak with coaches about walking on. Once again, I am going to disagree with anyone that says that the best programs in the country are done with 2020's or have a short list that precludes any other 2020 that is not already on said list. I will use Vandy as an example. They have 23 players committed to class of 2018 but only 10 committed for 2020. My son was a late blooming RHP. He did not have any offers until late summer before senior year but just signed this week to play baseball for Power 5 program.

I would recommend that your son stick with his goals regardless of what others may think. Teach him to focus on the process, not the outcome. No one knows how he will develop physically or where he will fit in when all is said and done. Best of luck to your son!!!!

coachld posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Thanks all, this is very helpful feedback.  We are trying to not be locked into anything and just see what happens.  If he can play baseball and be a starter that is great. If baseball can help him get into a little better of a school and he barely plays that is ok also.  He can always switch gears and just focus on classes if baseball does not work out.  

Just fun to play as long as possible!  

You have received some good info/advice and I agree that players without athletic scholarship but guaranteed roster spot are more likely to receive help with admissions process. I like your last response because I really believe that it is too early to lock into one school and/or attend camps and speak with coaches about walking on. Once again, I am going to disagree with anyone that says that the best programs in the country are done with 2020's or have a short list that precludes any other 2020 that is not already on said list. I will use Vandy as an example. They have 23 players committed to class of 2018 but only 10 committed for 2020. My son was a late blooming RHP. He did not have any offers until late summer before senior year but just signed this week to play baseball for Power 5 program.

I would recommend that your son stick with his goals regardless of what others may think. Teach him to focus on the process, not the outcome. No one knows how he will develop physically or where he will fit in when all is said and done. Best of luck to your son!!!!

Congrats to your son, that is awesome!  And, I completely agree with you about 2020's.  If a kid blooms in his senior year to throw 90+ and exit velo at 90+ many schools will find a spot.  College baseball is a business.  

Walk On is a real roll of the dice, for certain.  

I wonder: are there Baseball programs that have a long tradition of walk-ons becoming big contributors and eventual scholarship players?  (similar to Wisconsin in Football?  JJ Watt, Jim Leonhard and many others all began as walk ons at Wisconsin)

One of the key relief pitchers and closer for this years college baseball national champion was a Walk On.  

3and2Fastball posted:

Walk On is a real roll of the dice, for certain.  

I wonder: are there Baseball programs that have a long tradition of walk-ons becoming big contributors and eventual scholarship players?  (similar to Wisconsin in Football?  JJ Watt, Jim Leonhard and many others all began as walk ons at Wisconsin)

In our experience it had more to do with the HC then the program, although the cost of attending certain programs can definitely play a role regardless of HC. My son would have had opportunity to walk on to a very good baseball program but the coaches only made brief reference to that option because of the high costs to attend. I am also familiar with HC at another very good baseball program who has a history of offering roster spots and then adding athletic $$$ based on performance. One player I talked with was offered a roster spot and within a month was provided 25% athletic money based on that same player performing well during senior season. I cannot speak for the countless other HC's and baseball programs.

Welcome! I only read your post so I apologize if I am repeating something.

It's pretty hard to try to figure out where his best fit would be right now as a 2020, but the time is right for starting the search.

First, it is my belief and understanding that D1 programs that continually and consistently compete for the championship, recruit baseball players.  That's just the way it is.  

If you went for a job, you wouldn't tell anyone you would work for free, why would anyone indicate to any coach they would join the team for nothing? That should never be disclosed unless that is the only option the player is given.

As you are aware D1 only allows 27 athletic scholarships, if they fully fund, but you mentioned something very interesting.

If you and your wife have attended and are regular alumni givers, many programs have money set aside for that purpose. I am not sure of the particulars but you might do some research. Attend camp and do get to know that at one point and that maybe a way to find his way onto the team, though he still has to continue to improve to the best of his ability on the field and in the classroom.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

One of the key relief pitchers and closer for this years college baseball national champion was a Walk On.  

The 8 extra players on Kevin O'Sullivans team more than likely are bright future recipients who didn't need athletic money. 

You have to be a baseball player to play for Sully.

TPM posted:

 

As you are aware D1 only allows 27 athletic scholarships, if they fully fund, but you mentioned something very interesting.

 

 

It's 11.7 scholarships spread over 27 positions. A majority of D-1 programs is not fully-funded to the 11.7 limit. Davidson, for example, just announced the establishment of an endowed fund for 4 full scholarships, which brought the school's total of available scholarship monies to an amount equal to 7 full scholarships.

NTG son (who was not throwing any faster than 87mph) received offers which were predicated on 25% of the total cost to attend. In one instance that equated to 25% of $66,000. His Mom and I were thrilled for him to be so fortunate as to be recruited by that school, but it did not fit him nor his career plans. All were one-year offers (no Power 5 schools).

Help with admissions from the coach varies greatly by school.  Asking favors from admissions (i.e. quick decision on player) is not something a coach wants to do if it can be avoided, even with scholarship players.  

I would agree with TPM that you not start with a "walk-on" offer to the coach.  There is nothing worse then sending your kid to a school he's a no-risk option to the coach.  You want to go to a school where the coach has some vision of your son's role in his program, preferably on the field.  

A walk on is not receiving athletic scholarship money. It means he’s #28-35 on the roster. Typically about 20 players contribute to the season. Every year the team brings in 10-15 new recruits. Unless a walk on’s game accelerates quickly he’s not long for the roster. If a player wants to get on the field he needs to go where he’s loved. 

NotThatGuy posted:

TPM posted:

 

As you are aware D1 only allows 27 athletic scholarships, if they fully fund, but you mentioned something very interesting.

 

 

It's 11.7 scholarships spread over 27 positions. A majority of D-1 programs is not fully-funded to the 11.7 limit. Davidson, for example, just announced the establishment of an endowed fund for 4 full scholarships, which brought the school's total of available scholarship monies to an amount equal to 7 full scholarships.

 

Actually it's 11.7 if fully funded spread over a maximum of 27 players...there is no minimum....the 11.7 can be spread over 12 guys if the coach feels like it.  The only regulation is that if a player gets baseball money, it has to be at least 25%.

3and2Fastball posted:

Walk On is a real roll of the dice, for certain.  

I wonder: are there Baseball programs that have a long tradition of walk-ons becoming big contributors and eventual scholarship players?  (similar to Wisconsin in Football?  JJ Watt, Jim Leonhard and many others all began as walk ons at Wisconsin)

Harvard's Captain from about 10 years ago (SS Morgan Brown) was a walk on as a freshman. he is now an assistant coach there.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with a comment made earlier in this thread.  A "preferred walk-on" is not necessarily guaranteed a roster spot through the Spring season.  The term "preferred walk-on" in my experience only means whatever that particular coach wants it to mean.

With some coaches and programs, yes, it may indeed mean a guaranteed roster spot for the whole year.  However, with other coaches and their programs, a "preferred walk-on" may only mean that the player doesn't need to participate in an open walk-on tryout to continue practicing with the team through the remainder of Fall ball.  

I suggest that when a coach tells a player or their parent that he will be a "preferred walk-on" that they ask the coach "does that specifically mean I'm guaranteed a spot on the 35-man roster for Spring?"  Now, we know that from some coaches you may not get a completely truthful answer, but at least you're asking a more accurate and direct question.  

Ripken Fan posted:

3and2Fastball posted:

Walk On is a real roll of the dice, for certain.  

I wonder: are there Baseball programs that have a long tradition of walk-ons becoming big contributors and eventual scholarship players?  (similar to Wisconsin in Football?  JJ Watt, Jim Leonhard and many others all began as walk ons at Wisconsin)

Harvard's Captain from about 10 years ago (SS Morgan Brown) was a walk on as a freshman. he is now an assistant coach there.

UCLA has had some notable successes. David Berg for one, who I believe ended up as the NCAA all time saves leader. Good article here: http://dailybruin.com/2012/09/...nd-for-ucla-basebal/

Also, the dh on last year's UCLA team, who started as a walk-on freshman.

Rick at Informed Athlete posted:

I'm going to respectfully disagree with a comment made earlier in this thread.  A "preferred walk-on" is not necessarily guaranteed a roster spot through the Spring season.  The term "preferred walk-on" in my experience only means whatever that particular coach wants it to mean.

With some coaches and programs, yes, it may indeed mean a guaranteed roster spot for the whole year.  However, with other coaches and their programs, a "preferred walk-on" may only mean that the player doesn't need to participate in an open walk-on tryout to continue practicing with the team through the remainder of Fall ball.  

I suggest that when a coach tells a player or their parent that he will be a "preferred walk-on" that they ask the coach "does that specifically mean I'm guaranteed a spot on the 35-man roster for Spring?"  Now, we know that from some coaches you may not get a completely truthful answer, but at least you're asking a more accurate and direct question.  

The truth!

2019Dad posted:

Ripken Fan posted:

3and2Fastball posted:

Walk On is a real roll of the dice, for certain.  

I wonder: are there Baseball programs that have a long tradition of walk-ons becoming big contributors and eventual scholarship players?  (similar to Wisconsin in Football?  JJ Watt, Jim Leonhard and many others all began as walk ons at Wisconsin)

Harvard's Captain from about 10 years ago (SS Morgan Brown) was a walk on as a freshman. he is now an assistant coach there.

UCLA has had some notable successes. David Berg for one, who I believe ended up as the NCAA all time saves leader. Good article here: http://dailybruin.com/2012/09/...nd-for-ucla-basebal/

Also, the dh on last year's UCLA team, who started as a walk-on freshman.

Here is where problems come into play. The category is “hearing/seeing what you want to hear rather than what is being said.” When the term “preferred walk on” comes up in conversation some parents and players will tell themselves how well it worked out for a handful of players. Therefore it’s ok. What they don’t know is how many players at UCLA tried to walk on and got nowhere. As suggested it must be asked of the coach, “What does it mean in my situation?”

Maybe it's me getting a little senile in my old age.  I just don't understand why a prospect would strive to be a walk on (preferred, vip, or whatever)?  Also why is there so much desire and emphasis on being on a power 5 team?  I understand the prestige, the media publicity, the chance to make it to the CWS, etc.  l personally would rather go to a D1 program where I can play every day, enjoy the game, given a chance to make a name for myself by accolades verses a national elite powerhouse where I rarely get in the game but do experience the CWS and am a member of a championship team.  If your son truely loves the game, want to continue playing at the next level, and is talented enough there will be D1's who will give him an offer.  Do the same with D2 & D3.  I believe the "right fit" isn't the school I've dreamed about playing and getting a degree from since I was a kid.  The "right fit" is when at that specific moment in time, I look at all my offers and options for baseball, education, financial, and student life, then that school is the right one for me. 

The traditional words in baseball is "play ball" not "watch ball." If your goal is to play baseball, then find a school where playing baseball is likely. There are exceptions to every "rule" however, most will tell you that walk-on students get very little playing time, no matter what level of the program.

As to academics, my son started out as a STEM major, with baseball that lasted one-year. He ended up becoming a business major. After his undergrad and a little "post grad" baseball he ended up getting his MBA from UT.

Playing baseball is a major time commitment, the kids in the sciences had it very difficult balancing lab work with practice and travel.  

My advice is if you want to "play baseball" find a school where your chances are the best, no matter what level.

If a career which requires a STEM major is a priority, find a program that understands that and allows baseball to integrate with the educational requirements. 

It is time to set priorities; until you do that, you are likely to waste a great deal of time.

Motivations are different for everyone.  I don't think many players/parents have any delusion that as a preferred walk on the player is very low on the roster.  But he has a shot to claw his way up.  Also there is a lot to be said about tradition and being a part of a very big name program even if you never sniff a starting role.  MANY players would rather ride the bench for UCLA and Coach Savage while attending school than any other low level D1 or D2 with a "guaranteed" starting role.   

I learned along time ago, there are many students/parents that approach college as the "search for the $200,000 sweatshirt." That is they are looking for validation of their efforts by either attending or being part of a program that is well recognized.

99.9% of all college baseball players will never have any kind of professional baseball career. So the discussion really is about what kind of college experience you as a parent expect or your son wants. 

College is difficult enough if you are going to get something out of it. Then you add the rigors of baseball and you have accepted the equivalent of a full time job being added to getting something from an education. 

You add to it virtually everyone has to pay some or all of the cost of an education; I really question the merits of seeking a "walk on spot" so that you can sit on the bench of anyone's program.

I believe that the best advice we can give kids is:

1. Go to a school where you will get an education and find joy in the experience.
2. Go to a school where the financial obligation can be handled by the family without creating a hardship.
3. Go to a school where playing baseball will be a positive part of the college experience.
4. Go to a school where you will be prepared for the next phase of your life.

There are 1,000's of schools, which offer 100's of opportunities, to make a  single decision in search of the "$200,000 sweatshirt" does not make sense of your evaluating a future where being a baseball player is highly unlikely.

With regard to the "preferred walk-on".   A friend of my son's was a walk on at my son's D1.  I knew his parents a little thru HS (he was from another HS), but not real well.  Met them at the first fall inter-squad.  I was shocked at how little they knew about their son's situation.  They had absolutely no idea whether or not he could be cut in the fall...(he eventually was)....I really don't think they even considered that as a possibility.  I never asked specifically if he was a "preferred walk on"....or what they were told, though as I said, I'm not sure they really were told anything.  He was told "come back out next fall and try again" and was also told he could work out with the team indoors thru the winter if he wanted to, but wouldn't be with the team come spring.  He ended up leaving the school at the end of the first semester and transferring to a JUCO and lived at home for a year (gave up baseball).   Unfortunately for him, I think not knowing what his situation really was ended up being really bad for him.  He could have played somewhere...maybe even a D1, but certainly a D2 or D3, but I think the whole experience just turned him off of baseball altogether.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

With regard to the "preferred walk-on".   A friend of my son's was a walk on at my son's D1.  I knew his parents a little thru HS (he was from another HS), but not real well.  Met them at the first fall inter-squad.  I was shocked at how little they knew about their son's situation.  They had absolutely no idea whether or not he could be cut in the fall...(he eventually was)....I really don't think they even considered that as a possibility.  I never asked specifically if he was a "preferred walk on"....or what they were told, though as I said, I'm not sure they really were told anything.  He was told "come back out next fall and try again" and was also told he could work out with the team indoors thru the winter if he wanted to, but wouldn't be with the team come spring.  He ended up leaving the school at the end of the first semester and transferring to a JUCO and lived at home for a year (gave up baseball).   Unfortunately for him, I think not knowing what his situation really was ended up being really bad for him.  He could have played somewhere...maybe even a D1, but certainly a D2 or D3, but I think the whole experience just turned him off of baseball altogether.

That is unfortunate, but it seems like the player and parents in this case either did not conduct their proper due diligence or were just not hearing what they did not want to hear.  I can see considering or "accepting" a preferred walk on in the right scenario, but you really need to get to the bottom of the player's chances of making the team, and be sure that he would like it at that school without baseball, etc.  A lot of considerations.  Tough call but I suppose it could be ok for some with the exact right scenario.  The anecdotal evidence of a walk on making the team and/or contributing and/or ultimately receiving athletic $ makes for a good story, but should not carry much weight in due diligence.

"just not hearing what they did not want to hear."

My son was a D1 coach for a several years, he found most players/parents are looking for validation of their poor choices, not advice, even when they ask for "advice".

 He gave advice to several players on his old HS team, literally not a single player/parent  took his advice about their situations and the schools they were going to.