Preferred Walk On--Guaranteed Roster Spot

Sorry but the player takes himself off of the market once he commits with nothing but a handshake until the fall of his entry year.  He should have the option of changing his mind just as the coach does. 
What I don't get was where was this big D1's interest all along or did the player through friends get word to the staff he would be willing to come to play as a walk on? Who recruited who?
Then by all means the player needs to keep his word.

So in the scenario that is being discussed here, you are saying that once the player shows up at Texas, or wherever, next August it would be perfectly fine for the coach to say,

 

"I know I guaranteed you a roster spot as a preferred walk-on, and I did that until you showed up, but guess what, I changed my mind. See ya. I saw on HSBBW that this is ok"

 

Or for the player to say,

 

"Yeah, I know I told you I would join your team as a guaranteed-roster-spot-preferred walk-on, but I showed up so now I can renege, and I'm going JUCO.  HSBBW says it is ok to do this no prob."

All that I am saying is that the player could discuss for an option to change his mind. Don't coaches do it all of the time?   You know that players commit and sign NLI to 4 year programs and end up going to JUCO or pro. This is not unheard of. And you know that coaches from many different programs ask more to show up than needed.

 

Circumstances change, this is the early signing period, quite different than making this decision in the regular signing period (april). I was under the impression that the dad was looking for a strong commitment for his son, which in most cases means scholarship dollars. I was trying to present all of my  sides.  I am a very strong believer in keeping commitments (why son went to college and not pro after HS), based upon the strong commitment shown from the programs side. 

 

What if the player gets hurt, what if the program doesn't lose as many as they think they will to the draft? What prevents the coach from NOT changing his mind when he has 37 that has showed up, doesn't he make his decision on who has the best opportunity to making an impact.

 

He asked for our input, I am looking at the scenario from all sides, particularly the players. Are you viewing from the coaches perspective?

 

How many other players have been asked the same?  I know of a big D1 program here in FL that asks quite a few to be "invited, guaranteed" walk on and invite more than they need to

 

I don't doubt that the player is not worthy of a D1 commitment, and most definitly will improve as he matures.  A lot of questions were asked, and as in everything a lot of different opinions given.

 

 

 

My opinion is that both the player's and coach's oral commitment to a guaranteed-roster-spot-preferred-walk-on position should be based on good faith and 100% intention to make it work.

 

It should not be based on the thinking that "what the heck, I can always get out of this with no lawsuit so why not say yes".

 

Sure, after any player shows up, with or without an NLI, circumstances can change. For the NLI player, the school is committed to providing scholarship money and the player is committed to meeting prescribed athletic and academic standards. Or, with mutual agreement the player can be released from the NLI. For the non-NLI player, if circumstances change, no legal obligations on either side.

 

I don't think a kid should be advised to take a non-NLI offer because "He should have the option of changing his mind just as the coach does."  And I don't think coaches should be advised to offer non-NLI spots because there would be no adverse legal consequences to reneging on them.

 

OK to agree to disagree on this. Just want to show any kids out there who may be reading this that there is not unanimity on this topic here.

 

 

 

I was offering different perspective, I never said it was right of wrong.

Again, I ask, are your responses based upon a coaches perspective or a parents? Or both?

 

It's obvious that this is the players dream school, so IMO at this point,  not sure what  we think or say really has much significant, to the player.  I think it is a great thing to go head first into a situation with a positive attitude that one come over come the odds (I know that very well), as long as they understand it fully. a

 

After all, as stated by dad, he is just 17.

Both.

 

See quote below:

 

"I don't think a kid should be advised to take a non-NLI offer because "He should have the option of changing his mind just as the coach does."  And I don't think coaches should be advised to offer non-NLI spots because there would be no adverse legal consequences to reneging on them."

Green Light,

Perhaps illustrations from the extremes assists in why the cautions combined with options need to be discussed.

A few years back, UNLV changed coaches following completion of the baseball season. The new coach came in and, in effect, made it clear nearly every student-athlete who signed an NLI with the former staff could come to school for one year but they would not play.  There was a very long thread on the HSBBW which included input from some of the players who were impacted.

On the other extreme, I am aware of a former HS player who was identified early in his junior year by a Big West program. They offered and he verballed.  Two weeks later, that player was on the campus of another Big West school on a recruiting trip.  The next week he withdrew one verbal and added another.  He then got more and more visibility and backed out of a second verbal to verbal to a Pac12 program where he ended up signing an NLI.  In June following his HS senior year, he was drafted and ended up signing on the very last day, leaving the school and coaching staff with no time to fill that slot.

I know TPM does not support either and don't think most of the "HSBBW" would, either.

My sense is Aleebaba and his son are carefully evaluating this walk-on option and all it entails. Clearly they take this very seriously.

With that said, many college coaches want to see players in the best situation and realize that sometimes it involves a situation which was not contemplated when the verbal agreement occurred. If handled correctly when it arises, by the player calling the coaches, and the coaching staff coming in late calling the coaching staff, it can work with everyone holding their head high, rather that the extremely poor reflection on college baseball recruiting created by the 2 illustrations which started this post.

Thanks for this information, infielddad, and the reference to the thread a few years back.

 

The following is what I originally said about this issue a few posts back and it is where I still stand.

 

It isn't being suggested that because the player won't be signing an NLI, it is ok for the player to make an oral commitment that he intends to back out of.....is it?

 

Fine for the player to bargain for as much time as he can get to confirm to the coach whether he wants to be a "preferred walk-on". But once the commitment is made, even though it is oral and not written, I think it should be honored.

 

Yes, there can always be extenuating circumstances, but going into a commitment with a possible renege in mind............well, not my cup of tea.

 

 I taught my kids to think long and hard about their decisions and to live by their commitments, and IFD knows I am definitely not in favor of the situations he has mentioned above.

 

 Aleebaba and son should be aware that these situations do exist and can be handled positively rather than negatively!

 

The player and his family  should be aware that they too have options instead of worrying about the what ifs from the program side. The truth is that the coach holds a significant power in making it happen or not and I do know this is a very hard decision for anyone.

 

Heck my son was recruited for over a year from the program he attended, plus given a great scholarship and we still thought about the many what ifs even though we were told and assured that these coaches lived by their word. 

Wow, lots of discussion since I left.  I am not really focused on the backing out of commitment thing as it is not an issue.

 

I do want to point out that school had contacted son via phone a few times in the past, and sent him messages thru intermediaries, but nothing serious happened to suggest major interest, especially over the last 3 months.  I then asked a friend to ask if there was still interest, and that is when everything started happening, and they called son and asked him to visit. 

Aleebaba,

 

Good luck and godspeed.  Not everybody gets an offer from their dream school.  That is very special.

 

I give you a lot of credit for looking at this from every angle, and requesting feedback from a lot of perspectives from this message board.  Well done, and I tip my cap to you.  You've given your son many data points to consider, and lot of parental support.

 

When the time is right, please let us know what he decides.

Found this post below from Swampboy in 2012 that is helpful.

 

 

Even the best walk-on situation is an invitation to a precarious baseball existence where the odds are against his ever making a meaningful contribution to the team.

It takes a special situation and a special player to make it work.

I recommend you assess both very carefully.

Step One: Assess the Situation.
Find out if he will be treated exactly like the scholarship players from the first day he arrives on campus.

At my son's school, there are preferred walk-ons whose status is indistinguishable from that of the scholarship athletes. They are so integrated into all aspects of team life that no one knows they are walk-ons unless they volunteer the information, which no one ever asks them to do.

Find out if the "guarantee" means your son will:
--Have the same conditioning and workout opportunities (group conditioning sessions, assigned locker, laundry service, after-hours facility access) as the scholarship players if he attends summer school with them;
--Have the same conditioning and workout opportunities in the weeks between the beginning of school and the beginning of official practice (this matters a lot because the players' concept of who is really on the team is solidified long before practices officially begin based on who is up early and working hard;
--Live in the same housing as the freshman scholarship players (this depends on your school: some coaches have control over a certain number of room assignments in preferred dorms; some coaches have no say in the matter at all);
--Receive the same academic support (services from team academic advisor, registration priority, free tutoring, etc.);
--Be exempted from the open tryout attended by the un-recruited walk-ons.

If all of the above are true, your son may assume he will be given a legitimate opportunity to prove himself.

Step Two: Assess the Suitability of the Player to Succeed as a Walk-on.
If the situation is promising, you can assess the player.

All walk-ons must confront two facts up front.
Fact #1:  The coach's livelihood depends on his ability to evaluate talent.
Fact #2:  The coach's initial assessment is that the walk-on has less potential than the scholarship athletes.

These facts are reality, and they will not go away.

For most players, the coach's assessment is correct and will be proven so by hard experience.

For a small minority, the coach's assessment is incorrect; however, recognition of these facts will eventually become a source of discouragement and doubt. These players should not become walk-ons.

For a tiny, tiny minority, the coach's assessment is incorrect, and the player's cast of character is such that the hard facts will become a wellspring of motivation and determination.

To assess your son's suitability for a walk-on spot, ask the following hard questions:
--Does your son have an informed basis for believing the coach's assessment is wrong and he really can compete alongside the scholarship players? Is it plausible?
--How good is your son at walking a hard path by himself?
--Is your son is the sort of young man who is driven to prove doubters wrong? When has he done it in the past? How often in life has he surged from the back of the pack to prevail in the end? Did he glide through youth ball on superior talent, or does he have a track record of outworking the competition and surprising his coaches?
--How hot does the fire burn within him? Does it still burn in the face of adversity? How often have others described your son as relentless, determined, passionate, or persistent?
--What's his track record in the matter of choosing friends? Does he naturally gravitate toward those with high goals and outstanding work habits, or does he choose friends mostly who are fun to hang out with?


If the situation is right and the player is right, it MIGHT not be totally reckless to accept the offer.

Are you trying to convince us or yourself?

 

You stated "at your sons school" so I am assuming he has accepted the opportunity. Yes at the bigger programs their is no distinction between the things mentioned, they get everything that scholarship guys do and yes they are a definite part of the team, no one has disputed that fact.

 

Players don't discuss their particular situation but FYI walk on players are not announced until the roster comes out in fall/spring.  Seems that parents like to talk their players situation  more than the players.

 

Best of luck to your guy!  Have a great senior year!

 

I think that's from Swampboy's excellent post, right?

Ok got that Green Light, that is correct! 

 

 

Sorry, thought I made it clear.  Just added Swampboy's excellent post in case others read thread.  Thought it was very well done.  Also, if I insinuated decision had been made I did not mean to do so.  Son is still considering options.

Aleebaba, 

I know you saw this thread..."When an offer really isn't one"...

These words from bacdorslider ring so true!... I added the bold...For any player with high level hopes & dreams of playing beyond college, he has to play those first 2 yrs. JUCO's that have been traditionally high caliber, include San Jacinto, Grayson, Navarro (former home of Skip Johnson), among others. Players from these schools typically feed into "dream school", or drafted. Some mid-level D-1's that seem to produce good results would include UTSA, UT Tyler, UT PanAm, U of Houston, Sam Houston State...

Food for thought & best of luck! The right school is out there

 

 where he could go for free, and get to play the first two years was more important than the level , sitting and waiting to play.  I mean wow at a D1 school you have to make the team, then the travel team, then get on the field... 35 on the roster  9 on the field.  all that glitters my friend.

Just as a reality check here at Juco's their are approx. 35 players and only 20 will see significant playing time.  You have to make the team. You have to make the travel team and then show enough to get playing time.  Any freshman in the up to 15 that do not get much playing time will probably not have their scholarship renewed.  So going to a Juco is no guarantee of playing time.  From 4 year D1 to D3 Juco it is all very competitive.

I personally do not see JUCO as best option if you have good grades and can play at a good academic school.  Many old-time posters mention going to a school that you would go to even without baseball.  That is what my son is going to do no matter what decision is made.  Also, if you read the "if I had to do it all over" thread in the general forum you will get a good understanding of the academic pitfalls of focusing too much just on baseball.  However, there are obviously a wide array of opinions on this issue.

Aleebaba - I come from the opposite side of the argument.  I say that kids should use baseball to get admitted to the best academic school that baseball will take them regardless of wether that school is in D1 or D3.  Knowing something about your son, I imagine he would be admitted to the "target" school regardless of baseball (this school is still an excellent school and I am not disparaging it at all!).  Why not use his baseball ability to reach even higher academically while creating a situation where he would also be a key member of the team and not an afterthought.  Schools like Johns Hopkins, Davidson, and Georgetown come to mind right away.  If pure academic reputation is the goal, your son is in the unique position to get both academics and baseball.  Why settle?

I don't disagree with you lefty, but I do not think that is what he will ultimately decide.  He always had dream to play at this school, not the highest academic schools that are showing interest.  I told him that he needs to decide based on having the fewest regrets in later years.  I would probably choose the path you describe, but, again, it's his call.  His mother and I are not going to stop him if that is what he wants, as decision is not crazy.  It's his life and it is a tough call.    

 "Many old-time posters mention going to a school that you would go to even without baseball."

 

But not all old-timers.  Many will say go to where you are wanted. 

 

The decision  really depends upon the player and his desire to play at the highest levels.  My son was at an excellent UC but the coach redshirted him, then played him sparingly, then told him he'd be a part time player.  Son was misrable and decided the school/coach s**ked and his desire to play baseball was a more important part of his college experience then he imagined as a high school senior, so he transfered to a JC, no regrets. 

 

btw what your son academically gets out of an ivy or jc is equal to what he puts into it. 

I don't want to or mean to hijack a thread but the subject is very similar.

 My son was just made a offer at his top school as a guaranteed walk on as the coach says they overextended their offers for this year. He said they had every intention of offering him a scholarship up until the last moment where they had to up their offer on two pitchers. He did say he can guarantee in writing that he would have scholarships for the remaining three years. By NCAA guidelines can this be done? Does he still sign a NLI?

 

My two cents. Son had a preferred walk on offer. Tore his labrum. The last time the coaches returned his calls or texts after he told them were... never. Be very cautious about anything that doesn't involve a written agreement.

Did he say that he would guarantee in writing that your son would be awarded a scholarship for the remaining 3 years?  Or just that scholarship money would be available?  The latter means essentially nothing; the former would require a written offer which meets the following rule:

15.3.2.2 Written Statement Requirement. The institutional agency making a financial aid award for a regular academic year or multiple regular academic years shall give the recipient a written statement of the amount, duration, conditions and terms of the award. The chair of the regular committee or other agency for the awarding of financial aid to students generally, or the chair’s official designee, shall sign or electronically authorize (e.g., electronic signature) the written statement. The signature of the athletics director, attesting to the committee’s award, does not satisfy this requirement.

In other words, a letter from the coach carries no actual weight.  Frankly, I cannot imagine that a college financial aid committee would make this kind of offer to a player who wasn't offered athletic aid during his freshman year.

 

In any event the language in the NLI contract does not fit this kind of situation, and could not be offered.  Just as well, since the NLI confers very little of value to a student athlete other than pride.  The offer of financial aid that accompanies a NLI does have some value, but as a practical matter the NLI itself only benefits the college.

In the email to me he said it would be in writing (I assumed a grant in aid contract) and said it would only be revocable for legal/criminal or academic issues.

 To update the head coach called him last night and upped the offer by 5% more.

 I can understand the situation their in and pretty much believe what they are telling me. They only have 4 SR. (1 pitcher, 2 catchers, 1 of) leaving this year.(my son is SS) The next class is 16 jrs with 9 of them being pitchers so I can see that they cant wait on beefing up their pitching and with only 1 catcher left they have no option there either.

 To top this because of Title IX restrictions they only have 7.5 total to split.

 

 

  

So, it's a done deal, right?

It is now.  Son wants to go for it with the big boys and he called coach last night.  His sister is also at same school and tuition is less than what I would have had to pay at Ivy, so that helps him and us.  I personally may have chose a different route, but he wants to follow a dream.  I am here to support him any way I can.  The HSWEBB community has been so much help over the years, and I assume will continue to be there in this next stage with its ups and downs.  Just hope there are a lot of ups.  Thank you.  

Alleebaba,

Congratulations to your son. Here is to many "ups".

Congratulations, look forward to following him.  Best.

Congrats Aleebaba.  The best of luck to your son.

Congrats to you and your family!  Best wishes for your son at the next level.

Congratulations to your son. Here's to him having a great experience.

Adding my congratulations to your son, Aleebaba! 

Aleebaba,

Congratulations to your son.

Congrats!

Congratulations!

And add us to the list congrats

CONGRATS!  All the best to your family.