I woke up with a couple of more questions this morning. Please let me know if I need to post somewhere else.
1. Is it true that it is better to come up in a 4-year school's system as opposed to transferring out of JuCo after two years?
2. If you go to a 4 year school and you are red-shirted as a freshman, would sitting out one more year after that be your bench mark for moving on? (sit 2 years if you aren't going to play the next year find a new school)
3. If my son does decide to commit to this school under pressure (and against the advice of his parents I might add) what does he say to the other coaches that were recruiting him?
I might add that I was told it would be a slap in the face to the coaches that had already offered him official visits. But, I have talked to him until I am blue in the face and I am ready to leave it up to him.
My Opinion for what it is worth:
01---no difference in my mind--playing two years of JUCO instead of sitting can only improve your game
02-- why sit out the second year in fact it is tough without a medical cause and reason-- my son red shirted as a frosh and then started for years-- of course each situation is unigue unto itself and so are the reasons for a redshirt frosh year
03-- If all are not in accord as to school choice why is he committing this early.? If he does committ he just simple calls ythe other schools and tells them he has committed--no reason to explain
No sl;ap in the face here-- if he made a decision he made a decision--- just hope that it is the right one especially with the turmoil around the decision
01---no difference in my mind--playing two years of JUCO instead of sitting can only improve your game
02-- why sit out the second year in fact it is tough without a medical cause and reason-- my son red shirted as a frosh and then started for years-- of course each situation is unigue unto itself and so are the reasons for a redshirt frosh year
03-- If all are not in accord as to school choice why is he committing this early.? If he does committ he just simple calls ythe other schools and tells them he has committed--no reason to explain
No sl;ap in the face here-- if he made a decision he made a decision--- just hope that it is the right one especially with the turmoil around the decision
1. I am told this is not a problem. In fact, at some D1 schools JUCO transfers are said to be given an advantage. I.e., the school wants immediate help thus bringing in the experience JUCO transfer rather than starting a freshman.
2. I'll leave that one to TRhit.
3. He tells them that he has made a commitment and he wanted to let them know immediately, so they could plan accordingly and avoid wasting any further time or money. I would think they would respect that. Sure, some of them may be irritated that he didn't consider their school more. But more than likely they will get over it pretty quickly.
Both you & your son just need to give this a great deal of prayerful consideration. Once a sense of direction is reached there should be some peace of mind, make the decision and don't look back.
2. I'll leave that one to TRhit.
3. He tells them that he has made a commitment and he wanted to let them know immediately, so they could plan accordingly and avoid wasting any further time or money. I would think they would respect that. Sure, some of them may be irritated that he didn't consider their school more. But more than likely they will get over it pretty quickly.
Both you & your son just need to give this a great deal of prayerful consideration. Once a sense of direction is reached there should be some peace of mind, make the decision and don't look back.
some 4 yr schools recruit JC, others seldom recruit JC, and still others don't recruit JC at all - - so at certain 4y schools entering as a frosh is likely the ONLY way in - so you'd have to do homework on schools of interest
as TR says, it's definitly NOT a "dis" to commit to a school and have to cancel remaining official visits, as well as pass on other offers on the table - it happens ALL THE TIME
what does he say to other coaches who were recruiting him?
IF the boy is on his way to becoming a man,
he calls them, informs them of his commitment decision, and thanks them for their interest
IF the coach he's talking to is a man, he'll thank him for the call (he knows it's very difficult) and wish him good luck -
BUT, it's not unheard of to get hung-up on, or worse
keep in mind that most players have a very good read on how their skills compare, and they know how hard they're willing to work to continue the development -
add to that the CONFIDENCE of a teenager & willingness to be a "risk taker" regarding any path he chooses, even with alot of variables
a parent however, in wanting the best for their child will usually be more comfortable with a SURE THING with a BIG MARGIN OF SAFTEY and FEW/NO VARIABLES - it's just the way it is
ps - be skeptical of any other advice from the "slap in the face" source(s)
pps - any pressure, or even recruiting contact from a booster who's not already a "family friend" is ILLEGAL & PROHIBITED (their violation, not yours)
as TR says, it's definitly NOT a "dis" to commit to a school and have to cancel remaining official visits, as well as pass on other offers on the table - it happens ALL THE TIME
what does he say to other coaches who were recruiting him?
IF the boy is on his way to becoming a man,
he calls them, informs them of his commitment decision, and thanks them for their interest
IF the coach he's talking to is a man, he'll thank him for the call (he knows it's very difficult) and wish him good luck -
BUT, it's not unheard of to get hung-up on, or worse
keep in mind that most players have a very good read on how their skills compare, and they know how hard they're willing to work to continue the development -
add to that the CONFIDENCE of a teenager & willingness to be a "risk taker" regarding any path he chooses, even with alot of variables
a parent however, in wanting the best for their child will usually be more comfortable with a SURE THING with a BIG MARGIN OF SAFTEY and FEW/NO VARIABLES - it's just the way it is
ps - be skeptical of any other advice from the "slap in the face" source(s)
pps - any pressure, or even recruiting contact from a booster who's not already a "family friend" is ILLEGAL & PROHIBITED (their violation, not yours)
When my son was considering JuCo vs 4 year, we heard the "we want to sign players as freshmen and bring them along with the standards of our program" line a lot. That's one of the standard, diplomatic coach lines akin to "you will be given an opportunity to compete for a starting position". Check the school's roster, signings, and player bios as far back as you can to determine what they actually do -- not simply what they say they do.
It's not where you start, it's where you finish.
It's not where you start, it's where you finish.
quote:Originally posted by HowUbe:
I might add that I was told it would be a slap in the face to the coaches that had already offered him official visits.
It would be a MUCH bigger mistake to go on those visits knowing you have already made up your mind for someplace else.
Will the other coaches be disappointed? Yes. Has it happened to them before? Yes. Will they get over it and respect him/you for your integrity? Hopefully yes.
quote:Does anyone know what conferences you can transfer within, would be good to have that info.
For football and basketball (so probably all scholarship sports) - The Big 10 rule is that you can't be on scholarship at your new school if you transfer within the conference. I think the standard sit for 1 year "rule" also applies (but that may be an NCAA thing)
HowUbe:
I wish your son & your family the best.
All of us know how stressful the recruiting process can get. Remember, there is rarely a perfect solution. Do as much non-emotional talking about the pros & cons as you can with your son. Never make a choice based on what other people think you should do. Those of us here are glad to be a sounding board for your concerns, but only you and your son can weigh the options. I just wanted to say that IMO one of the most important thing in the recruiting process will be closure as a family.
Once a verbal has been given, stop, take a deep breath and go out as a family and celebrate. Then, support him as a family as best you can. Over the next 12 months second guessing the decision will drive you nuts!
From experience, you are going to find lots of friends, family, and sometimes perfect strangers 
who are going to ask "why there", no matter how great the choice may be. So, be prepared and don't feel you need to justify the final decision, it will be the right one for your son. Smile! 
I wish your son & your family the best.
All of us know how stressful the recruiting process can get. Remember, there is rarely a perfect solution. Do as much non-emotional talking about the pros & cons as you can with your son. Never make a choice based on what other people think you should do. Those of us here are glad to be a sounding board for your concerns, but only you and your son can weigh the options. I just wanted to say that IMO one of the most important thing in the recruiting process will be closure as a family. Once a verbal has been given, stop, take a deep breath and go out as a family and celebrate. Then, support him as a family as best you can. Over the next 12 months second guessing the decision will drive you nuts!
From experience, you are going to find lots of friends, family, and sometimes perfect strangers who are going to ask "why there", no matter how great the choice may be. So, be prepared and don't feel you need to justify the final decision, it will be the right one for your son. Smile!
"My son is only being offered books at the larger school. I think the problem with his being recruited with them is that they didn't know about him till too late."
"It really has helped me to realize that this school is probably not as interested as I would like."
HowUbe,
Of all the very good stuff that has been said here, those two sentences quoted above are THE most important.
Big school is offering you books. They ain't interested and books don't buy them the right to press you for a decision. I know your son likes the school, but based on the offer you have recieved, it appears that you would be better off attending nearby juco, then transfer to big school as a junior, after you have some history.
Tell 'em no and take the visits. Your son may be making an emotional decision and as a parent you need to step in and help him realize that fact.
1. Is it true that it is better to come up in a 4-year school's system as opposed to transferring out of JuCo after two years?
Of course it depends on the person, but the "odds" of progressing up are better coming through a juco.
2. If you go to a 4 year school and you are red-shirted as a freshman, would sitting out one more year after that be your bench mark for moving on? (sit 2 years if you aren't going to play the next year find a new school)
Big school coaches don't recruit players to their schools with large scholarships to have them sit on the bench. They expect them to play. Freshmen at big schools are NOT automatically redshirted and it is generally beneficial to the player when that is done. Don't take the books offer, go to a school where you are wanted and redshirt won't likely be an issue.
3. If my son does decide to commit to this school under pressure (and against the advice of his parents I might add) what does he say to the other coaches that were recruiting him?
I don' think he should committ to the big school, but if he does, just call the others and say he has made a committment. No big deal, they have heard it before, probably just this morning.
I might add that I was told it would be a slap in the face to the coaches that had already offered him official visits. But, I have talked to him until I am blue in the face and I am ready to leave it up to him.
Insist that he take the official visits. You are not leaving anything on the table from the big school. Making him take the visits will be good experience for you and him and give you better information with which to make a comparison.
Then, your son needs to perform well where he ends up, and make the big school wish that had made a better offer.
If he accomplished that, most everything elese won't matter...............
And please let us know how things turn out, some of us like to watch.
"It really has helped me to realize that this school is probably not as interested as I would like."
HowUbe,
Of all the very good stuff that has been said here, those two sentences quoted above are THE most important.
Big school is offering you books. They ain't interested and books don't buy them the right to press you for a decision. I know your son likes the school, but based on the offer you have recieved, it appears that you would be better off attending nearby juco, then transfer to big school as a junior, after you have some history.
Tell 'em no and take the visits. Your son may be making an emotional decision and as a parent you need to step in and help him realize that fact.
1. Is it true that it is better to come up in a 4-year school's system as opposed to transferring out of JuCo after two years?
Of course it depends on the person, but the "odds" of progressing up are better coming through a juco.
2. If you go to a 4 year school and you are red-shirted as a freshman, would sitting out one more year after that be your bench mark for moving on? (sit 2 years if you aren't going to play the next year find a new school)
Big school coaches don't recruit players to their schools with large scholarships to have them sit on the bench. They expect them to play. Freshmen at big schools are NOT automatically redshirted and it is generally beneficial to the player when that is done. Don't take the books offer, go to a school where you are wanted and redshirt won't likely be an issue.
3. If my son does decide to commit to this school under pressure (and against the advice of his parents I might add) what does he say to the other coaches that were recruiting him?
I don' think he should committ to the big school, but if he does, just call the others and say he has made a committment. No big deal, they have heard it before, probably just this morning.
I might add that I was told it would be a slap in the face to the coaches that had already offered him official visits. But, I have talked to him until I am blue in the face and I am ready to leave it up to him.
Insist that he take the official visits. You are not leaving anything on the table from the big school. Making him take the visits will be good experience for you and him and give you better information with which to make a comparison.
Then, your son needs to perform well where he ends up, and make the big school wish that had made a better offer.
If he accomplished that, most everything elese won't matter...............
And please let us know how things turn out, some of us like to watch.
FO
Your observation on redshirts is off base as per my experience
My guy was talked to about it before hand and I am sure it happens elsewhere as well--he knew where he stood for the next 4 years and accepted the redshirt--in fact it did not happen until just before the first game and he was given the option of wasting a year on the bench or save it
Your observation on redshirts is off base as per my experience
My guy was talked to about it before hand and I am sure it happens elsewhere as well--he knew where he stood for the next 4 years and accepted the redshirt--in fact it did not happen until just before the first game and he was given the option of wasting a year on the bench or save it
[QUOTE]ps - be skeptical of any other advice from the "slap in the face" source(s)
QUOTE]
Bee>: Thanks for the heads up on that one.
FormerObserver: all I can say is "Wow"! You do tell it like it is.
I still have one more question: If you go to a 4-year school and get red-shirted. The next year can you still qualify to play at a JuCo for TWO years? Since, you were red-shirted I would think you could, but I am not sure.
QUOTE]
Bee>: Thanks for the heads up on that one.
FormerObserver: all I can say is "Wow"! You do tell it like it is.
I still have one more question: If you go to a 4-year school and get red-shirted. The next year can you still qualify to play at a JuCo for TWO years? Since, you were red-shirted I would think you could, but I am not sure.
HOW
The answer is yes
The answer is yes
HowUBee
regarding the 4-2-4 transfer the NCAA has separate rules for that situation (see NCAA guide) they seem kinda complex to me
but anyway, if you handled the academics for a yr at the 4yr, especially w/redshirt heavier class load, you'd prolly find you've completed "the equivalent PLUS some" of the JC's 1rst yr classes - so you run out of classes to take before you complete 2 yrs of JC -
it would seem to be sensible if academics were OK, to just seek another 4 yr school were the fit is "more gooder"
regarding the 4-2-4 transfer the NCAA has separate rules for that situation (see NCAA guide) they seem kinda complex to me
but anyway, if you handled the academics for a yr at the 4yr, especially w/redshirt heavier class load, you'd prolly find you've completed "the equivalent PLUS some" of the JC's 1rst yr classes - so you run out of classes to take before you complete 2 yrs of JC -
it would seem to be sensible if academics were OK, to just seek another 4 yr school were the fit is "more gooder"
HowUBe,
MY son received a nice offer from a big school, he took the offer, and has done well.
BUT, he has worked very hard, fortunate to be with great coaches, and LUCKY.
As I looked around the conference this past year, there were probably less than a dozen freshman players that made a significant contribution to the team.
We all ask, "Will my son get to play", but that ain't the question. The question is, "Can your son contribute?"
I saw only about a dozen that did. Worse for pitchers, and I'm guessing that your son is a pitcher.
Tell me if my guess is correct.
Not many freshman pitchers at major D1 schools.
Looking back, though, and things have gone very well for my son, a far more predictable route would have been for him to have signed with a juco or a smaller school.
1)They can offer more and higher scholarships.
2)Educational transition is easier.
3) Tranferring up and out is a normal process.
4) Transferring back to juco/or a smaller school happens, but can be more difficult.
I can't say that every coach does this, but at the end of the fall, I see transfers back to the smaller schools taking place.
So, it appears, at my son's school, a transfer in the spring may be found for those that are "cut" after the fall.
I am not sure how I would approach that with the coach, maybe some else has...............
MY son received a nice offer from a big school, he took the offer, and has done well.
BUT, he has worked very hard, fortunate to be with great coaches, and LUCKY.
As I looked around the conference this past year, there were probably less than a dozen freshman players that made a significant contribution to the team.
We all ask, "Will my son get to play", but that ain't the question. The question is, "Can your son contribute?"
I saw only about a dozen that did. Worse for pitchers, and I'm guessing that your son is a pitcher.
Tell me if my guess is correct.
Not many freshman pitchers at major D1 schools.
Looking back, though, and things have gone very well for my son, a far more predictable route would have been for him to have signed with a juco or a smaller school.
1)They can offer more and higher scholarships.
2)Educational transition is easier.
3) Tranferring up and out is a normal process.
4) Transferring back to juco/or a smaller school happens, but can be more difficult.
I can't say that every coach does this, but at the end of the fall, I see transfers back to the smaller schools taking place.
So, it appears, at my son's school, a transfer in the spring may be found for those that are "cut" after the fall.
I am not sure how I would approach that with the coach, maybe some else has...............
.
RHP05..
Great Post. So true in all respects! Family, closure, No perfect solution,....Bravo.
.
RHP05..
Great Post. So true in all respects! Family, closure, No perfect solution,....Bravo.
.
quote:Originally posted by FormerObserver:
Worse for pitchers, and I'm guessing that your son is a pitcher.
Tell me if my guess is correct.
The question is, "Can your son contribute?"
FormerObserver
No, my son is not a pitcher.
He is a position player.
His main contribution to a team would be his speed. Scouts have told him that he has above average major league speed.
Another worry I have is that he ends up as just a base runner. He can also bunt for a hit.
Howube,
I understand your frustration and stress. However, you came with questions and have been given very good advice. As RHP has posted the final decision will be between you and your son. No matter what the decision, you will always hear two sides (or three or four) either one of them being right or wrong.
FO's advice makes a lot of sense to me. Know that at a Big D1, it is not if you can play (they all can play or they wouldn't have been recruited), it is if you can CONTRIBUTE, and when can you CONTRIBUTE. Most freshman have limited roles at the bigger schools. I understand what he is saying, as mine also plays at a large program. Mine also was lucky, he got to contribute right away, a significant amount, but it is not the norm.
Many caoches do not force redshirt, they will give you their opinion of how they see your son CONTRIBUTing each year, many players elect to redshirt on their own. Remember you are given 4 years of eligibilty and 5 years in which to use them. The only exception is a redshirt is given (as stated above) and then a medical redshirt is given. This is not a sit on the bench a year or two until you are ready. If your son has speed, his major CONTRIBUTION may just be as a base runner at the bigger school, first year, second, year, third year etc. If he is a bunter, that may be his role as well. He has to decide if those roles will fulfill his desires. He needs to get on teh phone before he decides and ask the coach what role they see him fulfilling, how can he CONTRIBUTE.
Many programs will take in ready transfers (from other 4 year programs or JUCO), if only to give them a chance to CONTRIBUTE. In 2004 son's school lost 9 to the draft, some they were not expecting. I do believe there were quite a few transfers they brought in. Some of those transfers have since left, as they did not get playing time last year, but they were given an opportunity to CONTRIBUTE. Players don't usually go from 4 year schools to JUCO's, maybe to smaller programs or other divisions.
I can tell you this, if you don't play, it's pretty hard to get a transfer into another larger program, due to the fact that you have not CONTRIBUTED anything to give those coaches a reason to give you a scholarship and you haven't played a year. So IMO, transfering from one big conference to another only works if you have CONTRIBUTED. In my opinion, in the long run, it's better to move "up" than "down".
Your third question really is simple. Son calls up and says, no thank you. It happens everyday.
I agree with FO, step in and make him take those other visits, but at this point, if you cannot convince him, you need to give your son the facts and let him make up his own mind. One of two things will happen. He will go and be happy or unhappy.
I apologize that I have repeated advice given, but thought maybe you needed to hear it one more time more time
Best of luck.
I understand your frustration and stress. However, you came with questions and have been given very good advice. As RHP has posted the final decision will be between you and your son. No matter what the decision, you will always hear two sides (or three or four) either one of them being right or wrong.
FO's advice makes a lot of sense to me. Know that at a Big D1, it is not if you can play (they all can play or they wouldn't have been recruited), it is if you can CONTRIBUTE, and when can you CONTRIBUTE. Most freshman have limited roles at the bigger schools. I understand what he is saying, as mine also plays at a large program. Mine also was lucky, he got to contribute right away, a significant amount, but it is not the norm.
Many caoches do not force redshirt, they will give you their opinion of how they see your son CONTRIBUTing each year, many players elect to redshirt on their own. Remember you are given 4 years of eligibilty and 5 years in which to use them. The only exception is a redshirt is given (as stated above) and then a medical redshirt is given. This is not a sit on the bench a year or two until you are ready. If your son has speed, his major CONTRIBUTION may just be as a base runner at the bigger school, first year, second, year, third year etc. If he is a bunter, that may be his role as well. He has to decide if those roles will fulfill his desires. He needs to get on teh phone before he decides and ask the coach what role they see him fulfilling, how can he CONTRIBUTE.
Many programs will take in ready transfers (from other 4 year programs or JUCO), if only to give them a chance to CONTRIBUTE. In 2004 son's school lost 9 to the draft, some they were not expecting. I do believe there were quite a few transfers they brought in. Some of those transfers have since left, as they did not get playing time last year, but they were given an opportunity to CONTRIBUTE. Players don't usually go from 4 year schools to JUCO's, maybe to smaller programs or other divisions.
I can tell you this, if you don't play, it's pretty hard to get a transfer into another larger program, due to the fact that you have not CONTRIBUTED anything to give those coaches a reason to give you a scholarship and you haven't played a year. So IMO, transfering from one big conference to another only works if you have CONTRIBUTED. In my opinion, in the long run, it's better to move "up" than "down".
Your third question really is simple. Son calls up and says, no thank you. It happens everyday.
I agree with FO, step in and make him take those other visits, but at this point, if you cannot convince him, you need to give your son the facts and let him make up his own mind. One of two things will happen. He will go and be happy or unhappy.
I apologize that I have repeated advice given, but thought maybe you needed to hear it one more time more time
Best of luck.
I want to thank everyone for his or her advice. We were able to give our son a better picture of what he faced. He did verbally commit to the bigger school. His decision not ours. As, Bee said parents want the "sure thing" sometimes. I must admit I am proud of my son for standing up to us for what he believes in. I see him in a different light these days. I used to see him as my baby boy, but now I see him as a young man. He is willing to make his own mistakes and live with the consequences of his decision. His motto now is " I am going to prove everyone wrong". Meaning all of the people in our community whom don’t believe he will ever see the field for this school.
You are correct. Second guessing has drove us nuts and now we have "family friends" who are calling and telling us what a big mistake he is making and what a great offer he is turning down elsewhere. So, this advice is a Godsend. Thanks.
quote:Originally posted by RHP05Parent:
Once a verbal has been given, stop, take a deep breath and go out as a family and celebrate. Then, support him as a family as best you can. Over the next 12 months second guessing the decision will drive you nuts!
You are correct. Second guessing has drove us nuts and now we have "family friends" who are calling and telling us what a big mistake he is making and what a great offer he is turning down elsewhere. So, this advice is a Godsend. Thanks.
Best wishes to your son. May he enjoy living out his dream.
Congrats!
What school did he decide on?
What school did he decide on?
CONGRATS to HUbe-jr, it's cool to be done with it - trust your son, celebrate & don't look back
don't worry about them
BTW - that would be the case NO MATTER WHAT DIRECTION YOU TOOKquote:now we have "family friends" who are calling and telling us what a big mistake he is making and
don't worry about them
HowUbe -
Congratulations to your son.
It sounds like he is very self-motivating which is what is needed to be successful at the next level! It is a great attitude to have leading into his senior season! As for "friends" who want to second guess his decision, just smile and thank them for caring enough to give an opinion!
Congratulations to your son.
It sounds like he is very self-motivating which is what is needed to be successful at the next level! It is a great attitude to have leading into his senior season! As for "friends" who want to second guess his decision, just smile and thank them for caring enough to give an opinion!
While $$$ was a consideration on what we could or couldn't afford as a family based upon offer amount and school costs, I told my son to remove scholarship amount from his decision process and see how the various schools stacked up based solely upon what he was looking for in a baseball program and school academics/environment. We'd only look at the $$$ issue when it came down to that final couple choices ... then it's a matter of what you can afford, and is the amount you end up paying WORTH the gains on the atheletic and academic side of the equation versus some other choice.
He could have waited for a couple more of the anticipated offers to come in from some of the schools pursuing him, more of the official visits, but why waste our time or that of the recruiting coaches if he would have crossed that school off his list anyway for other reasons he already knew? The only other possibility was of some other "high ranked" school that hadn't contacted us yet calling him late in the process ... and odds would be that they'd have already locked up most of their scholarship money anyway. So we played the "what if" game: what if *** school called next week, would you want to go there? No ... too close to home. How about YYY school? No ... they're a "drive through" campus. How bout ZZZ school? No ... too small and no "college town" environment.
So, the 'early' offer he accepted really turned out to be the best situation for him overall ... when looked at in the big picture.
He could have waited for a couple more of the anticipated offers to come in from some of the schools pursuing him, more of the official visits, but why waste our time or that of the recruiting coaches if he would have crossed that school off his list anyway for other reasons he already knew? The only other possibility was of some other "high ranked" school that hadn't contacted us yet calling him late in the process ... and odds would be that they'd have already locked up most of their scholarship money anyway. So we played the "what if" game: what if *** school called next week, would you want to go there? No ... too close to home. How about YYY school? No ... they're a "drive through" campus. How bout ZZZ school? No ... too small and no "college town" environment.
So, the 'early' offer he accepted really turned out to be the best situation for him overall ... when looked at in the big picture.
quote:Originally posted by Florida Baseball Guy:
Congrats!
What school did he decide on?
I emailed you the answer.