Skip to main content

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Something like Gold Standard 100% Pure Whey Protein Powder would have nothing in it that could be banned, unless they wanted to ban cheese, too.

However, there are some 'protein shake' concoctions on the market that throw the kitchen sink into the ingredients and you do have to be careful to check what's in them (at least if you know precisely what the NCAA is looking for).
Last edited by Krakatoa
While the NCAA generally allows protein shakes and amino acid combinations, there are still restrictions on what substances a school can provide for its athletes. According to NCAA.org, the list of permissible substances includes vitamins and minerals, energy bars, and calorie or electrolyte replacement drinks such as Gatorade. The non-permissible list is more extensive, reaching such supplements as amino acids, condroitin, ginseng, creatine and melatonin. Some supplements containing protein are allowed, as long as it does not contain more than 30 percent of calories from protein, and "does not contain additional ingredients that are designed to assist in the muscle-building process."

I would stay away from creatine. period.
quote:
Talked to my son last night and he said his coaches have told them to discontinue the use of protein shakes until they can determine if they are a banned substance. Has anybody heard anything about this? Seems pretty strange to me but I guess anything is possible with the NCAA.


They are just covering their tails. It's a smart move. The coaches aren't saying "don't take these;" they're saying "don't take these until we can clear them with the NCAA." There is an organization out of Kansas City that does the drug testing for the NCAA. They are able to give you a pretty good idea of whether a certain product would lead to a positive test or not. They can't guarantee it, but they will answer questions. My supervisor has emailed them several times when athletes bring in a product.

quote:
It may not be an NCAA ban but it could be a school related issue. I spoke with one trainer at an ACC school who provided our team with the Gatorade Protein replenishment drinks in the dugout. She told me they could not give those to their athletes because it contained too much protein.


Yeah, the Gatorade Series 03 is high in protein. And they are NASTY. I purchased a couple earlier this week just to try them out. The first one I didn't even finish it was so bad. The second one was a little better, but still not very good. I know my supervisor was able to get ahold of a few of them this summer from a Big 12 school since they couldn't give them to the athletes..
quote:
Originally posted by CPLZ:
quote:
Originally posted by 1baseballdad:
quote:
I would stay away from creatine. period.


Why?


There is a lot of ignorance about what creatine is, where it comes from, and what it does.

It's a naturally occurring substance in red meat.


Many things occur naturally in food that are not necessarily great when consumed in larger quantities. I am not specifically saying creatine is "bad", just that one cannot use it's natural occurence as proof that it is harmless.

BTW, minor league umpires have been also been warned that some of the protein products available will result in failing their drug tests.
Last edited by Jimmy03
J03,
While I agree that, natural doesn't neccisarily equal good, my comment about creatine is from the personal experience that many people think it is a man made chemical PED. It may be the most studied supplement ever, and to date, it has shown no negative effects, short or long term, regardless of dosage.
quote:
Originally posted by CPLZ:
J03,
While I agree that, natural doesn't neccisarily equal good, my comment about creatine is from the personal experience that many people think it is a man made chemical PED. It may be the most studied supplement ever, and to date, it has shown no negative effects, short or long term, regardless of dosage.


That's only partially true. You are right, if taken properly creatine doesn't have negative effects but if you don't hydrate properly while taking it there are some serious potential kidney problems as well as issues with rhabodomylosis that can occur with creatine use.

Kids that hit the weight room often don't hydrate properly and that is where they run into problems with a lot of these kinds of supplements.
quote:
That's only partially true. You are right, if taken properly creatine doesn't have negative effects but if you don't hydrate properly while taking it there are some serious potential kidney problems as well as issues with rhabodomylosis that can occur with creatine use.


Just curious at to rhabodomylosis being caused by creatine use.I looked it up and creatine levels are elevated in this disease, but it does not talk about a direct correlation.Creatine levels could be elevated if the person is not metabolizine their protein properly.

Not trying to dispute you, just wanted to know if you have read something that discusses creatine use and this disease.I looked at causes of disease and creatine wasnt listed.
quote:
That's only partially true. You are right, if taken properly creatine doesn't have negative effects but if you don't hydrate properly while taking it there are some serious potential kidney problems as well as issues with rhabodomylosis that can occur with creatine use.


Do you have a link to any scientific studies that backs that up? I would be interested in reading it because everything I have read said specifically their is no link.



I also understand that this link resurfaced recently by reporters speculating on the recent hospitalization of some Oregon High School Athletes.

There is so much mis-information surrounding Creatine. It really has been studied to death.

This is long but it needs to be pointed out.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Creatine Does Not Promote Dehydration or Rhabdomyolysis in Athletes

WOODLAND PARK, CO, AUGUST 25, 2010 – Recent media reports have suggested that ingestion of the dietary supplement creatine monohydrate may have contributed to the hospitalization of several athletes from McMinnville High School in Oregon for rhabdomyolysis (i.e., a rapid breakdown of skeletal muscle due to injury that typically presents with marked elevations in the enzyme creatine kinase [CK] in the blood) and/or anterior compartment syndrome (ACS). It is well known that excessive exercise in hot and humid environments can promote dehydration, muscle breakdown, and result in marked elevations in muscle CK levels. In severe instances, this may lead to exertional rhabdomyolysis particularly in athletes who have been engaged in intense exercise in hot and humid environments for several days and who become chronically dehydrated. Additionally, excessive exercise in individuals unaccustomed to heavy training bouts can promote anterior compartment swelling, pain, and pressure. It is well known that dehydration and/or heat illness can exacerbate this clinical course.

According to press reports, the athletes in this case were engaged in a several day “immersion” camp. The athletes began to complain about swelling in their arms after performing a series of push-up and chair dip exercises in a 30-second alternating bouts of repetitions for over 20 minutes until exhaustion in a hot and humid wrestling room. Temperatures in the room were reported as high as 115-120°F. Moreover, the athletes were reported to have to start a repetition scheme over again if all of the athletes did not complete their repetition goals. Further, the athletes were not allowed to drink water during the training session. None of the athletes indicated they took creatine (or any other supplement or drug). Nevertheless, media reports indicated officials are investigating whether creatine may have been linked to this incident.

The International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN) is the leading professional organization in the field of sports nutrition. In 2007, the Research Committee of the ISSN formed a team of sport nutrition researchers, dietitians, and physicians to extensively review the available scientific literature on creatine supplementation and exercise and to develop a Position Stand for the Society which was published in the Journal of the International Society of Sport Nutrition (see:http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/6). After extensive review of the literature, the ISSN adopted the following positions relative to this issue:

1. Creatine monohydrate is the most effective ergogenic nutritional supplement currently available to athletes in terms of increasing high-intensity exercise capacity and lean body mass during training.

2. Creatine monohydrate supplementation is not only safe, but possibly beneficial in regard to preventing injury and/or management of select medical conditions when taken within recommended guidelines.

3. There is no scientific evidence that the short- or long-term use of creatine monohydrate has any detrimental effects on otherwise healthy individuals.

4. If proper precautions and supervision are provided, supplementation in young athletes is acceptable and may provide a nutritional alternative to potentially dangerous anabolic drugs.

5. At present, creatine monohydrate is the most extensively studied and clinically effective form of creatine for use in nutritional supplements in terms of muscle uptake and ability to increase high-intensity exercise capacity.

6. Creatine monohydrate has been reported to have a number of potentially beneficial uses in several clinical populations, and further research is warranted in these areas.

Specific to the alleged association of creatine to development of rhabdomyolysis and ACS; a number of studies have evaluated the effects of creatine supplementation on dehydration, cramping, fluid retention, muscle injury, CK levels, and health status in athletes engaged in intense exercise (including football players engaged in intense training in hot and humid environments). These studies have consistently indicated that creatine supplementation does not promote cramping, muscle injury, elevations in CK, and/or heat related injuries. Conversely, studies report that creatine may improve the athlete’s ability to tolerate intense exercise in hot and humid environments and lessen the incidence of injury. Athletes have been using creatine on a widespread basis as a dietary supplement since the early 1990′s. No clinically significant side effects have been reported and a number of potentially beneficial medical uses are being studied. It is the opinion of the ISSN that suggestions that creatine caused this incident is inconsistent with the scientific literature and implausible.

According to noted sports nutrition scientist Richard Kreider, Ph.D., FACSM, FISSN of Texas A & M University, “Many studies have been done (since the early 1990′s) that show creatine does not cause dehydration, muscle damage, or increase susceptibility to heat-related illness in athletes involved in intense training in hot and humid environments. If anything, research shows that creatine promotes hyperhydration (i.e., whole body fluid retention) leading to less thermogregulatory stress during intense exercise in the heat. It is unfortunate that individuals unfamiliar with the creatine literature are speculating that creatine caused this problem when the athletes indicated they did not take creatine and they ignore the obvious precursors: excessive and inappropriate training in a hot and humid environment.”

About the ISSN: The International Society of Sports Nutrition is the only non-profit academic society dedicated to promoting the science and application of evidence-based sports nutrition and supplementation. www.theissn.org
From a performance standpoint, Creatine alone will do nothing, just like any other suppliment.

At the 50 thousand foot level, Creatine helps an athlete to do more work...ie, more reps in the gym.

It also will pull water into the muscles which will make them look bigger but that goes away when you stop taking it. The real benefit is getting additional reps in a routine when you might not have the energy under normal circumstances.

I am sure there are some weight lifting guru's who can explain it far better than I just did and in much greater detail.

EDIT: As for the MLB, I think there have been several instances recently of players taking over the counter supplements that contained banned substances and led to suspensions. That might be part of it but again, I am not sure.
Last edited by 1baseballdad
There is some truth in both sides of what has been said here.

Dehydration is used as a sort of catch all word. It can be very misleading.

What creatine does, is promote the attachment of water to muscle fiber. This does cause a super hydration, but not of the internal organs but only of the muscle fiber. If the athlete does not hydrate himself enough, creatine can cause a situation where the muscle is underhydrated and susceptible to tearing, (pulled muscle). This is particularly evident in hamstrings in football players. Every trainer I have ever met that knows anything about supplementation, preaches the need for hydration when taking creatine.

The reason creatine works, (it works to varying degrees in people depending on their own body chemistry and initial predisposition to muscle hydration) is that muscle hydration allows the athlete to continue working at a very high level before muscle fatigue sets in.

If you'd like to read a great book, Advanced Sports Nutrition by Dan Bernadot. It is very technical at times, which makes it a slow read, especially if you have to educate yourself on some of the references as you read, but there is a ton in there for the layman also. It will give you the real skinny on what works, what doesn't, and to what degree. I found it invaluable to helping my kids.
Last edited by CPLZ
quote:
Originally posted by 1baseballdad:
EDIT: As for the MLB, I think there have been several instances recently of players taking over the counter supplements that contained banned substances and led to suspensions. That might be part of it but again, I am not sure.


It was a common rumor that companies that were new to the supplement market, or existing companies that were bringing out the new, latest and greatest supplement, would enhance their supplement with illegal PED's to show the great gains one could get if using the supplement. The thought was that companies would do this for a short period of time, build the groundswell, and then stop using the PED in the supplement.
Last edited by CPLZ
quote:
It was a common rumor that companies that were new to the supplement market, or existing companies that were bringing out the new, latest and greatest supplement, would enhance their supplement with illegal PED's to show the great gains one could get if using the supplement. The thought was that companies would do this for a short period of time, build the groundswell, and then stop using the PED in the supplement.


Wow...I didn't know that but I can't say it surprises me. The supplement industry is the wild west and I would encourage everyone to do a lot of research before allowing their sons to start to take any of the stuff , even if it’s just Whey Protein.

I took Creatin about 13 or 14 years ago when I actually went to the gym instead of just driving by it. I did a lot of research on it then and personally felt it was safe, based on what I could find. I still occasionally read up about it to see if there have been any new revelations as to its safety which is why I was curious about the earlier comment about it causing muscle damage. I am even more alert about it now having a high School aged son since I know at some point, he will likely take it when he goes off to college. Interestingly enough, I don't allow him to take it now. Not due to safety reasons but I just feel he is too young and really doesn't need it.

Add Reply

Post
.
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×