TRhit - I agree 100% ...it all begins at home but as I have seen in some circumstances (probably the exception and not the norm), even the best families and best parents will face tough situations.
KG - I hear ya...points well taken.
One of my jobs as a parent is lead by example in an attempt to demonstrate character. As a parent of 3 sons in this "age of entitlement", there are tough decisions to make -- tough battles to fight. Without getting too philisophical, Proverbs 22:6 encourages us to "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Regardless of your religious outlook, that advice is solid.
We have to be willing to teach our kids (as parents, coaches, teachers, friends with influence) that there are few shortcuts in life --- and that they are not entitled to be big and strong and fast. Those things should only be accomplished through hard work.
At the GNC website there are packets/regiments that promise FAST results (overnight!). I recently heard a story about a local woman that had one of the regiments analyzed, finding it to be one minor chemical away from other banned substances. The companies that make suppliments are not going to stop -- they will get smarter and find ways to skirt the hot issues....we're talking about MILLIONS of dollars. This is not an easy battle and I don't know the answer....so, I'll have to lean on Proverbs 22:6 --- and be an example as best I can.
TR -- we roast you here (and I think you like it) -- but it sounds like your daddy had some wisdom.
Good posts everyone!
We have to be willing to teach our kids (as parents, coaches, teachers, friends with influence) that there are few shortcuts in life --- and that they are not entitled to be big and strong and fast. Those things should only be accomplished through hard work.
At the GNC website there are packets/regiments that promise FAST results (overnight!). I recently heard a story about a local woman that had one of the regiments analyzed, finding it to be one minor chemical away from other banned substances. The companies that make suppliments are not going to stop -- they will get smarter and find ways to skirt the hot issues....we're talking about MILLIONS of dollars. This is not an easy battle and I don't know the answer....so, I'll have to lean on Proverbs 22:6 --- and be an example as best I can.
TR -- we roast you here (and I think you like it) -- but it sounds like your daddy had some wisdom.
Good posts everyone!
Cheapseats....that was a great reply 
The Hooten website is very educational as well.
KG is there anyway IYO that MLB baseball would change their penalty on steroids (one time and your gone)or you think it will NEVER happen as I expect your reply to be.
IMO, it has to start at the top (MLB) to show kids that even if you use them to enhance ones performance when you get caught....its over and back to the real world. Just think if baseball said its over to Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Palmiero (still cant believe you showered with him
),Canseco, Pudge, Giambi, Sierra.....need we go on.
The Hooten website is very educational as well.
KG is there anyway IYO that MLB baseball would change their penalty on steroids (one time and your gone)or you think it will NEVER happen as I expect your reply to be.
IMO, it has to start at the top (MLB) to show kids that even if you use them to enhance ones performance when you get caught....its over and back to the real world. Just think if baseball said its over to Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Palmiero (still cant believe you showered with him
),Canseco, Pudge, Giambi, Sierra.....need we go on.
Let me take this in another direction if I may. I have a 7 year old son who loves baseball. At this age he is thankfully oblivious to all the steriod news of late. I am sure that wont last long. He does notice the size of some of these players and it gets some pretty funny reactions from him at times. "WHAT IS THAT!!"
Who would you guys say are the players these days that you would want your young kids to look up to? Who can you tell him to watch or follow and have some chance of not seeing him in the headlines for the wrong reasons?
Thanks,
Tim
Who would you guys say are the players these days that you would want your young kids to look up to? Who can you tell him to watch or follow and have some chance of not seeing him in the headlines for the wrong reasons?
Thanks,
Tim
I think this is a dangerous question. I mean, that's the problem. EVERYONE is being suspected. I never expected Pujols and now this comes out. The one guy that comes to mind is Ken Griffey Jr. Hits a ton and has been doing it for a long time before this controversy, but who is to say his reputation is safe. Maybe the players to look up to should be the defensive studs. Hitting is the most appealing, but wherever people see insane numbers, they are going to think enhancements. I think everyone wishes it didn't have to be this way, but this is what it comes to.
At this time, I would say Michael Young, Gary Matthews of the Rangers. But, you never know. Next year or the year after they could look like B. Bonds.
quote:Originally posted by Train:
KG is there anyway IYO that MLB baseball would change their penalty on steroids (one time and your gone)or you think it will NEVER happen as I expect your reply to be.
The MLB has the strongest players union in the world. And that is not an overstatement. In decades past, MLB has seen several strikes during labor talks in which the media portrays the players fighting for issues such as salary caps, revenue sharing, and other issues.
Of those other issues, one of them has been drug testing. Without getting into the specifics, the MLB players union has always argued for fair treatment while drug testing. Fair meaning the norm in the common work place.
Because the union is so strong, it will take the owners to stand firm for a change in policy. Although, congress has recently implied that they will take matters into their own hands. We shall see.
Thanks KG for your response. I know the labor rules are different for all pro sports. IMO, Congress will need to step in and set mandatory guidelines for all pro athletes. I know most pro athletes would not agree with it BUT where else can they make the money they have today without playing professional (I guess they can open another training facility for kids )
I do not see that happening until more sad stories become public or a political figures family member is affected and becomes a statistic. Until then no changes will be made.
I recall an earlier post stated that it all starts at home and I could not agree more.
) I do not see that happening until more sad stories become public or a political figures family member is affected and becomes a statistic. Until then no changes will be made.
I recall an earlier post stated that it all starts at home and I could not agree more.
did read all the post, i figured someone has already brought this up, but being that pujols is my favorite player on my favorite team i have to defend him. It seems who ever you talk to about pujols they always talk about his work ethic. Always working to get better watchin tapes liftting weights, and everything else, His work ethic would be comparable to Roger Clemens, and you never here his name with steroids. I firmly believe pujols doesnt use any type of enhancements.
sorry did not read all the post.
Unfortunately, Clemens has also been linked to steroid use.
Panther Dad you might have to be the dumbest poster on this site. As a matter of fact all of you that believe that Pujols or Clemens or any other successful major leaguer is on steriods needs to just tip your cap and move on to something else.
Blind faith? Must be a Barry Bonds fan.
I don't believe for one second that Albert Pujols is on steriods. He's just a freak of nature. Clemens would never take a steroid, he's smarter than that.
These are just my opinions and really don't amount to a hill of beans.
It's just what I think!!
These are just my opinions and really don't amount to a hill of beans.
It's just what I think!!
1-PD is one of the BEST posters on this site... I think he is a moderator.
2-The comment about Clemens (and Pujols) being linked to steroid use is not something PD wants to be true and he is not trying to take away from their talent. It is simply a hard truth that in this time for baseball, everyone with exceptional talent gets questioned. I'm not really sure if there is evidence saying Clemens has been involved, (I would've thought that with his return the evidence would've showed up again) but in a time like this when Palmeiro (I personally never suspected him) gets caught, no one has a free pass.
3-I really don't know if this helps or not, and I don't care, don't bash PD.
2-The comment about Clemens (and Pujols) being linked to steroid use is not something PD wants to be true and he is not trying to take away from their talent. It is simply a hard truth that in this time for baseball, everyone with exceptional talent gets questioned. I'm not really sure if there is evidence saying Clemens has been involved, (I would've thought that with his return the evidence would've showed up again) but in a time like this when Palmeiro (I personally never suspected him) gets caught, no one has a free pass.
3-I really don't know if this helps or not, and I don't care, don't bash PD.
Quickdraw -- I probably am ONE of the dummest posters here....perhaps not the dummest, but in the top 5! I never said I believed that Clemens or Pujols were on steroids ---- all I said was that there have been suspicions. I'm so dummmmm, that I have a tendency to believe that the athletes are clean until it is proven otherwise. Silly me.
DTiger -- thanks for coming to my defense.
I never said I believed that Clemens or Pujols were on steroids ---- all I said was that there have been suspicions. I'm so dummmmm, that I have a tendency to believe that the athletes are clean until it is proven otherwise. Silly me. DTiger -- thanks for coming to my defense.
I can agree with that PD. Innocent until proven guilty. good point. one question i would like you to answer is "why is it that a MAJORITY of the fans see a big player and has good power numbers, they think he's on the juice??" Have you not gone to your son's, or even daughter's in some cases athletic event, and said "WOW, that's a big kid!" It happens. There are big people.
That Grimsley guy for the D-Backs, wasn't the biggest guy on the planet, yet he had a weird lookin face and head. Soooo.... it goes to show that you don't have to be the biggest one on the field to be the biggest cheater.
Another question. Compare your weight now, to when you were 24 yrs. old. Is it the same? Close? Well tendency is your going to get a little bit bigger as you pile on the years. Even if you keep the same workout, and diet, your body changes. Metabolism, heart rate, etc. So you might put on some pounds.
All I'm saying is that if some one is to try and accuse a pro athlete of using steroids, i want the accuser to go through a day or two's workout with the accusie, and see if they don't get a little bit stronger or a little bit bigger. The physics of weight lifting hasn't changed THAT much over the last 20 years.
That Grimsley guy for the D-Backs, wasn't the biggest guy on the planet, yet he had a weird lookin face and head. Soooo.... it goes to show that you don't have to be the biggest one on the field to be the biggest cheater.
Another question. Compare your weight now, to when you were 24 yrs. old. Is it the same? Close? Well tendency is your going to get a little bit bigger as you pile on the years. Even if you keep the same workout, and diet, your body changes. Metabolism, heart rate, etc. So you might put on some pounds.
All I'm saying is that if some one is to try and accuse a pro athlete of using steroids, i want the accuser to go through a day or two's workout with the accusie, and see if they don't get a little bit stronger or a little bit bigger. The physics of weight lifting hasn't changed THAT much over the last 20 years.
I don't disagree with you -- other than the assertion that I was accusing anyone. I didn't invent the rumor about Pujols -- as a matter of fact, I should say for the record that I don't believe it. I didn't start the rumors about Clemens and I don't think there is much to those accusations either. I think it is a sad day when anyone with success is lumped in with those that cheat.
Not that my opinions matter much (as I have always acknowledged), but I do believe that Bonds and Sosa cheated....among a few others. I also believe that the numbers are higher than the average Joe thinks.
Not that my opinions matter much (as I have always acknowledged), but I do believe that Bonds and Sosa cheated....among a few others. I also believe that the numbers are higher than the average Joe thinks.
It has to come down to the innocent players demanding the right form of testing to rid the game. Until then, anyone far above in talent (stats) than every other player will be suspected.
quote:Originally posted by Dtiger:
It has to come down to the innocent players demanding the right form of testing to rid the game. Until then, anyone far above in talent (stats) than every other player will be suspected.
D-Tiger you're insightful as always.
Question: Being an "innocent" player, would you demand testing of your teammates that you know or suspect aren't clean?
I presume this would be difficult for you or any other player, regardless of the playing level.
quote:Until then, anyone far above in talent (stats) than every other player will be suspected.
Sadly, I think you are right, DTiger.
The issue of demanding a more rigorous system of testing is always a delicate one. There is no doubt in my mind players know of other players using the enhancements. There is no doubt in my mind that a good number of players do not like that others cheat. There IS doubt in my mind how far an innocent player would go to prove his own innocence. I've often heard about a sort of "code" that goes along with being a professional baseball player. Even though the "code" may not involve the same things at my age, there are definately things that players do not tell parents. A player's reputation would most likely be shattered if he broke this code. I really don't know how important a player's reputation with his peers is against his reputation with fans. I'd like to think that everyone would do the right... morally correct thing, but if they did, we wouldn't be in this situation. My guess (and let me assure you it is a guess) is that the reputation with the fellow players is more important. The players know who is cheating and know who isn't, so in their minds they have nothing to prove. This is my guess. I wish they would realize their (innocent players) keeping quiet allows for the invasion of thoughts of steroids to creep in my mind when I watch Albert Pujols, Scott Rolen, Todd Helton, etc. It's unfair to these players to think about their guilt before it being proven-if it were to be true, but this is the result. The thought comes more and more into my mind, sometimes honestly causing me to stop watching a game. Baseball is a great sport, and it has provided me with role models for how I approach athletics and life, but I can hardly say anyones name to a non-baseball (even a word??) fan without having him/her say they are on steroids. My personal favorite these days is David Eckstein, and of course, his height (or lack there of) helps me like him more.
I'm about to give up on the MLB. They do this 3 strikes or whatever **** about 'roids. It's not fair to all the people who are genuinely talented players, but aren't quite as good as the juiced players, so they don't get to the majors, without sacrificing their health. would like to have a chance to play in college, and maybe the pros, I probably won't, but if there were no more people using steroids, it would certainly level the playing field.
I like pudge, and his height, certainly makes me think hes not on HGH, hes only 5' 9", thats 3 inches shorter than me, and I have not had my growth spurt yet, hopefully.
quote:Originally posted by Adam Carlton:
...would like to have a chance to play in college, and maybe the pros, I probably won't, but if there were no more people using steroids, it would certainly level the playing field.
I don't think any player should discount their worth or limit them self if they haven't exhausted all ethical possibilities. In other words, hard work, diet, responsibility, accountability, etc… should be the athlete’s focus.
PD...you big dummy!!!