Pulling vs. oppo theory

Technically, you are correct. But it's a lot easier said than done. It's much easier to square a ball up and hit it on the sweet spot if you hit it where it's pitched (hit the inside pitch early, let the outside pitch get deep). If they don't, most players end up with some ugly-looking swings and weak hits.

Probably true Yak. I am just seeing a ton of it and success with it at the MLB level. These kinds of things always trickle down.
Maybe for some people it is easier to time the pitch and hit it if they don't have to worry as much about where it is pitched and can concentrate just on the timing. Take an educated guess, inside or out, then pull the shnike out of it.

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Originally posted by Doughnutman:
it seems like if you hit the ball in front of the plate it doesn't really matter where it is thrown as long as you get the barrel on it.

Cal Ripken hits like that. You must hit with arms extended (some call this a "Power V") in order to do this.

Most hitters keep their back elbow "slotted" and will wait for the ball if it's pitched outside.

A hitter has a natural contact point.....Don't mess with it.....

Coaches have messed up many potentially great hitters by teaching opposite way hitting....

The greatest hitters of all times were pull hitters....There's a reason why....Thankfully, they didn't let coaches mess with 'em...

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The greatest hitters of all times were pull hitters....

That's debatable. A more accurate statement would be "some of the greatest hitters of all time were pull hitters". But I think there are just as many great hitters that were not dead pull hitters. I believe the truly great hitters could be successful using any style of hitting. But for the average hitter, trying to pull everything will probably lead to a lot more strikeouts and mis-hits.

Something to ponder.Ted Williams was the greatest hitter of all times.He was a pull hitter,but he also stood on top of the plate,as well as Bonds(another pull hitter)This,IMO makes even outside pitches middle pitches that can be pulled with power.

IMO,what makes these hitters great was the abilty to hit the inside pitch,considering they were in on the plate.

The reason I bring this up is of course personal. Son has great power pull and great power away if he is late on the fastball.

When he tries to go oppo it is weak at best. Maybe he should just take his normal swing and guess on outside and react to the inside pitch. Look up the middle and pull and oppo will happen if he is late.

Pull it for power. That is what I am seeing in the pros.

There's no question that most hitters hit for more power to the pull side (although there are a few exceptions like Ryan Howard). But most hitters will also tell you that when they are really going good, they are hitting the ball hard to the opposite field. That is because they are seeing the ball really well and their timing is good so they are able to stay on the outside pitch.

The only thing that determines if the ball is pulled or oppo is the angle of the bat when the ball is struck and if the ball hits the "top" or "bottom" of your barrel...you can contact the ball out in front of your front leg and hit it oppo or you can hit it back near the back of your body and pull it if your bat is angled correctly at contact. (the second one would look pretty funky...actually both would look kind of funky)...

I have also noticed big leaguers pulling home runs on balls on the outer half of the plate...to me that is truely staying on the outside pitch. I think of it this way...they are a little out ahead of the pitch with their swing...but their bat stays on plane long enough through the swing, long enough to put the barrel on the ball and hit it far.

I don't think this is a "new" phenomenon. I've seen it as long as I can remember playing baseball and in fact if you are watching espn right now Tim Kurkjian just showed an 1986 Game 5 ALCS ab when David Henderson pulled an outside and low fastball for a home run to win.

I have also had 2 of these types of hits so I know how it feels. The best I can describe it is that I got a little out and around but managed to carry my batspeed through the outside pitch with my hands, I kept the barrel in the zone even if it sacrificed my sequencing a bit. My swing didn't feel like it had much behind it but I feel like I carried the momentum of my barrel through the outside pitch and the ball just jumped off my bat to the pull side.

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A more accurate statement would be "some of the greatest hitters of all time were pull hitters".

Wrong......

Top four homerun hitters of all-time were definitely pull hitters....No question 'bout it....

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But most hitters will also tell you that when they are really going good, they are hitting the ball hard to the opposite field.

Most hitters are not great hitters....The greats would never say such a thing....In fact, they would almost never hit opposite field....

The truth is, if you're turning the barrel with the hands and arms, like great hitters do/did, pulling the ball is natural....

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A more accurate statement would be "some of the greatest hitters of all time were pull hitters".

Wrong..........

It depends on how you define greatness. Yes, power hitters tend to pull the ball more. They also tend to strike out more.

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Top four homerun hitters of all-time were definitely pull hitters....No question 'bout it....

Let's examine this:

#2: Aaron wasn't really a pull hitter for most of his career. He became more of a pull hitter as he got older and started to lose his oppo power.

#4: Willie Mays wasn't a pull hitter either. Consider this exerpt from Willie Mays' biograpy: "Durocher told Willie that he was having problems hitting because he was trying to pull everything... Durocher explained that right-handed hitters almost always struggle when they try to pull, or hit, every pitch into left field - especially when they try to pull pitches on the outside part of the plate. To hit the ball hard, a batter should hit the ball where it's pitched... When hitters go against this simple philosophy, the tend to hit weak ground balls or pop-ups, or they strike out. Once Durocher explained this to Willie, things started to change."

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The greats would never say such a thing....In fact, they would almost never hit opposite field....

A bunch of greats down through history (Hornsby, Cobb, Gehrig, Musial, Rose, Jeter, Rodriguez, Pujols...) would probably differ with you on that.

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#4: Willie Mays wasn't a pull hitter either. Consider this exerpt from Willie Mays' biograpy: "Durocher told Willie that he was having problems hitting because he was trying to pull everything... Durocher explained that right-handed hitters almost always struggle when they try to pull, or hit, every pitch into left field - especially when they try to pull pitches on the outside part of the plate. To hit the ball hard, a batter should hit the ball where it's pitched... When hitters go against this simple philosophy, the tend to hit weak ground balls or pop-ups, or they strike out. Once Durocher explained this to Willie, things started to change."

I agree with not TRYING to pull the ball. But I don't agree with TRYING to hit the ball "where its pitched." My philosophy is TRY to hit the ball hard not on the ground, I don't really care where it goes if I do that. Of the balls I do hit hard, more are pulled than oppo.

I think if you're really good then you might be able to get away with trying to pull a ball... but you have to go about it a certain way...stay through the ball. If you get your barrel out of the zone too early in an effort to pull it, thats where you'll get your pull side ground balls off the end.

Mays and Aaron were pull hitters....So were Williams and Ruth....So was Bonds....People have always told pull hitters they should hit opposite field....Good thing they didn't listen...

You aren't a great hitter if you don't have power....Naming a bunch of decent hitters who were not great hitters won't cut it.....

The best hitters ever were pull hitters....You can slice it any way you want, but, the truth will always be....

And, that's why you're seeing a trend in MLB to pull pitches....Nobody likes to wear a dress and hit in MLB anymore......

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the truth will always be....

The truth is rarely black and white and it is clearly not in this case. You are free to believe otherwise.

It can go either way. You can pull an outside pitch, or go oppo with an inside pitch. Most of it has to do with where, and how quick you get your hands through the zone.

I preach hitting line drives up the middle/opposite field. Anyone can pull the ball, the great players are the ones that use all fields, and shoot the gaps. there is nothing better than seeing a guy double to left, and triple to right shooting the opposite field gaps.

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I preach hitting line drives up the middle/opposite field. Anyone can pull the ball, the great players are the ones that use all fields, and shoot the gaps. there is nothing better than seeing a guy double to left, and triple to right shooting the opposite field gaps.

Not trying to smart-off but honestly I'd rather pull a home run than hit an oppo double.

And you always hear "anyone can pull the ball"...but I think its pretty difficult to do consistently without rolling over and hitting too many pull-side gbs. At least for me it is.

Its wierd because in order to pull the ball well I think up the middle. I work oppo exclusively in about my first 3 rounds of bp and then gap to gap after that, but in games I am definitely a pull hitter. I work opposite way in bp because I feel like it helps me to the pull side in the game.

ML hitters try to hit the ball as deep as possible.

To be a great HR hitter you have to be a great hitter also. The greats can hit them to ALL fields.

Hit the ball where its pitched. Thats what the best do when they are not fooled.

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The greats can hit them to ALL fields.

Is that why defenses played shifts on Williams, Ruth and Bonds?

Once again...

Get the history book out. Read what Williams said about when he believed he became a great hitter.

Good teams shift defenses for nearly every hitter. Watch closely.

Great to see you back Swingbuilder! Thanks for the clips!

Wasn't it Babe who had the famous called shot at Wrigley to DEAD CENTER?

Did you not watch Bonds hit them to all fields?

Williams, is on record, as saying that had he been a better hitter of the balls away he would have been the Homerun Champion of all time.

You cant hit HRs unless you can hit....at least not that many!

Hey FFan...Hows your son doing??

Williams said alot of things.....But, he was a pull hitter....So were Bonds and Ruth.....

You can't change what they were, try as you may.....

Well put Bluedog, where would you rate Jeter? A great hitter who is not a pull hitter?

None are JUST pull hitters. Even Williams.

The definition of a pull hitter has different meanings.

Some think its "pull every ball".

Some think its " can Pull a ball in".

Some think its " one dimensional. of which Bonds, Babe or Williams would NOT have been.

Your statement isn't valid except to you. Richard.

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The definition of a pull hitter has different meanings.

Oh, why, I didn't know....I always thought it was a hitter who predominantly pulled the ball....

You sure got mad at the HI guy......He must have blasted you pretty good over there....

Dazed, Jeter has a unique swing....His hands go inside out....He can hit for average, but not alot of power....

My opinion, to be a great hitter, you gotta hit alot of homeruns....Jeter is very good, though....

Thanks for the videos. It really helped on a couple of things I was trying to explain to my son.

are you saying that great hitters absolutely HAVE to be homerun hitters? and if thats what you are saying, then that leaves ichiro out of that category. how could someone who has 200+ hits for 9 consecutive seasons not be labeled as a great hitter?

Ha..really telling "pink" dog.

Pete Rose

Lifetime .303 avg in 24 seasons and the all time hits leader and only 160 HRs.

Spewing without accountability is a worldly problem.

Sure Doughnut, Im glad it gave you and your son a better perspective. Good Luck with your hitting growth and development.

swingbuilder thanks a lot for the clips...its interesting that you posted a lot of adrian gonzalez and manny because even before you posted those clips i thought of those two as the best left/right handed opposite way hitters in the game today...

I've also noticed with bluedog that jeter does indeed have a very unique swing...not too many big leaguers follow his pattern...his barrel at launch position is way more "straight up" (perpendicular to the ground) than almost every other big league hitter...

...could this mechanic be the reason he's "inside out" a lot of pitches and goes the other way with balls he could pull?

One more thing about the "great hitters" debate...I don't think everyone is on the same page... I believe bluedog is talking about the select top top handfull of all time greatest immortal hitters...bonds, ruth, williams, maybe hank aaron, maybe pujols when its all done....that's about it... pete rose does not belong in this elite group, he had "only" a .375 career on base % and slugging under .500...he belongs in the "great all stars of their day" group that I think everyone else is thinking when they say "great players"

Back to doughnutman's original thought...what I get from these clips is that you don't always have to hit the ball "where its pitched."

Adrian Gonzalez's second clip down on the first page (thanks swingman) shows him going the other way on a pitch in and hitting it with authority...a couple clips on the second page show tex and bonds going right center/center (idk i can't tell) with balls on the outside corner...this is what doughnut man was origianlly talking about when he sees hitters pulling the ball on the outside corner for home runs.

This might get a little deep here so try to follow me...

even though it might be technically easier to hit the ball hard if you hit it where its pitched...it can be harder for specific players if thats not what their "natural" swing accomplishes for them...I think players may get into trouble trying to adjust their natural swing in order to hit the ball where its pitched...I don't think jeter would be a good hitter if he tried to pull every inside pitch and i don't think williams would be a good hitter if he tried to take every outside pitch away...its all about finding *your* swing that puts the barrel of the bat on the ball with some batspeed

...in other words, you should not make it your goal to hit it where its pitched, you should make it your goal to hit the ball hard. Hitting the ball where its pitched might come naturally from a good swing, but possibly not in the case of pull hitters or oppo hitters-- it doesn't matter as long as your hard hit balls are in fair territory somewhere.

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...in other words, you should not make it your goal to hit it where its pitched, you should make it your goal to hit the ball hard.

Machine, you're taking Swingbuilder to school.....Probably have to buy him some books, too.....

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its all about finding *your* swing that puts the barrel of the bat on the ball with some batspeed

Swing will get a diploma when he figures this out....

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are you saying that great hitters absolutely HAVE to be homerun hitters?

Yes, that's what I'm saying....

Thanks green machine. That is what I have been telling him. Don't change your swing, just put the barrel on it with a hard swing and the ball will go wherever it goes.

He changes his swing trying to go oppo and it is weak at best. Just hit it hard.

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Originally posted by BlueDog:

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are you saying that great hitters absolutely HAVE to be homerun hitters?

Yes, that's what I'm saying....

Sorry, cannot agree with this, at least how it reads to me,at face value.
It looks like at least 1/2 of those with 3000 hits would not be classified as home run hitters:
Roberto Clemente September 30, 1972
Al Kaline September 24, 1974
Pete Rose May 5, 1978
Lou Brock August 13, 1979
Carl Yastrzemski September 12, 1979
Rod Carew August 4, 1985
Robin Yount September 9, 1992
George Brett September 30, 1992
Paul Molitor September 16, 1996
Tony Gwynn August 6, 1999
Wade Boggs August 7, 1999
Cal Ripken Jr. April 15, 2000
Rickey Henderson October 7, 2001
Craig Biggio.

We can throw Jeter, Mauer and Ichiro and quite a few others in there also.
Seems to me that studying video of guys like Bonds, Thome, Adrian Gonzalez and the like and suggesting one size fits all for hitting is a huge mistake.
From the time he was 15-16, Bonds was different than any hitter of his age in Northern CA, as well as most who were 4-5 years older.
Great hitting is as much mental as it is physical in college and Milb. Unless someone has the skills and talent of a Bonds, taking one size fits all approach in college and Milb creates a recipe of success...for the pitcher strength.
Great hitters work themselves into hitters counts more often than not.
They adjust to and beat scouting reports more often than not.
In college and Milb, great hitters don't miss pitches thrown into their strength very often.
In college and Milb, great hitters still hit .280 to .300 when it is a pitcher's count like 0-1; 1-2.
Few if any will ever do it like Bonds or Thome or Gonzalez. In my opinion, for those in high school and younger, they don't have the strength and skill to be able to emulate Bonds in any meaningful way from AB to AB.
One of the best discussions of mental and physical aspects of hitting that I have seen recently was that done on MLB TV with Joe Mauer and his approach/success with 2 strike counts. He was not talking about hitting home runs.

I would agree that most all great hitters have HR power. However that doesn't always relate to a certain number of HRs.

I think most people would have to consider Ichero and Wade Boggs as great hitters. Boggs hit barely over 100 HRs in his whole career, but he would put on long ball displays in BP. He was definitely an opposite field gap guy in the games. Ichero hits HRs at about the same frequency that Boggs did. However, I've heard he also puts on big power displays in BP. His tools are more productive when using his speed and contact ability as a hitter.

So having the ability to hit for power and having a power approach can be two different things.

Wade Boggs had 4,064 total bases in his 18 year career. Jim Thome had 4,384 total bases in his 20 year career. Thome has hit 576 HRS, Boggs hit 118 HRs. Both were great hitters, but went about it differently.