Put 'Em in, Coach

I agree 100%. The win at all costs mentality at the HS level gets nowhere.

In High School sports team sizes should be smaller and there should be an everybody plays rule.

That would require coaches to do their job right.

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That's a sad story VD Vicarious Dad.

If I were a coach I would utilize my reserves as much as possible while still coaching to win. The situations you list are perfect examples of when this should be done.

Why would I coach this way? Trying to be fair? Well sort of. Trying to win? Yes.

I would coach this way to ensure that if a reserve is needed at any point in the game to help bring a victory that reserve is well prepared to do so. Getting game time experience is crucial, in my opinion, for any player to be as fully prepared as possible.

Players satisfied with their playing time, in this case the reserves, are motivated and prepared to help the team when asked and when needed. Utilizing the full roster, in an attempt to build a strong team, isn't difficult to achieve. The reason some coaches fail to do this is a real head scratcher to me.

Trying to be fair is actually a very productive side effect. Forge ahead as a team...a strong, satisfied, prepared, and victorious team!




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I totally agree.

My son's HS football team won many lopsided games. Our coach would put the reserves in as soon as we got a 35 point lead. Both sides of the ball. There were lots of games in my son's junior and senior year that he didn't play at all in the second half.

His sophomore year, finished up those blowouts with his classmates

There are many good reasons to let reserve players finish up the blowout games.

1) Those reserves will be the starters in years to come. There is nothing better than game experience to teach them what the game requires.

2) How stupid would a coach feel if his star QB or RB or LB got injured when the team was up by 5 TD's in the fourth quarter?

3) It is the class thing to do to prevent running up the score on a mismatched opponent.

I have never understood coaches who take kids onto their roster with no plan actually to use them.

If you're never going to play them, and you're not trying to develop them for next year, why are they even there?

Some people seem to think that being a part of the team or getting to wear the colors should be enough. I don't think many players or their parents would agree with you. The excitement of making the team can turn very sour over the course of a long, disappointing season.

You'd do everyone a favor by letting them go up front, and letting them have all that practice time to devote to something they would enjoy more.

But once you take them on, to dump on them this way is unforgivable. Maybe you have one or two kids who are discipline problems, but that couldn't possibly explain wholesale ignoring of them.

Really what you'll find is that you can use these kids even in closer games. Maybe not all at once, but a few here and there. But in blowout games, for someone to do that repeatedly indicates that they don't have their head screwed on just right.

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I cringe when I see totally lopsided HS football scores. In Oregon, there is one program that is constantly winning by scores like 65-0. They play their starters well into the fourth quarter in these games, and even then they sparingly use the subs.

I know many parents of kids on the team. They hate it. It is embarrassing. I just can't understand why a coach would do it.

This program is very successful, has multiple state titles and is an affluent private school which allows them to draw kids from all over the area (which gives them an obvious advantage in talent.)

All they do by running up the score is make sure that people hate them. I have never understood it.

ROB


It all comes down to a coach with a huge ego !!!!

BUT

If he keeps winning every year he must be doing something in terms of deveoping his players year after year and parents DO like winning

i've never been a big fan of arguing pt, and football is an animal of it's own. practice 5 day's, 2 hr game on the 6th. most of the life lessons in the game are learned on the practice field. even if you don't get in the game your participating 100% of the team.

kind of like the architect complaining that he didn't get to lay the bricks. yet he did his part

that said..if your winning by 40...........put em in.

Not only is it not fair to the players, it's bad for the program. If you don't take the opportunitoes when they come, the whole program suffers. Eventually your Varsity HC will need players...starters AND relievers. You end up leaving the HC in a bind when you don't develop your JV team and choose to win big instead.

Most coaches are going to get guys in. Most coaches look for opportunities to get guys playing time. There will always be some that dont. And there will always be some coaches that dont do things the right way. I think the majority do though.

I think everyone agrees when you get the chance to give kids a chance you should.

I tried to get some input about this very thing on another thread but got none. I am someone who wants to get their bench players involved but I feel I do a miserable job at this. I would be willing to take any input on how to go about doing this.

Before every game I have a plan for every player on the team. Sometimes it works out and everyone plays and has a role. Sometimes it doesnt work out. But over the course of the season they all get plenty of opportunities.

I have found its alot easier to have it on paper than to try and wing it during a game.

8 posistion starters
1 starting pitcher
1 designated hitter
2 designated runners 1 for the pitcher 1 for the catcher
1 bull pen catcher

13 - Thats the number of guys when the game starts that know exactly what their role will be for that game

I never carry more than 18 players

Now at least 2 of those will be in almost every year be pitcher only guys. One will have pitched the previous game and is out of action unless he can mash and is the DH.

Thats 15 guys

Now I have 3 players for that game I need to work in. Maybe a Pinch hitter role. Maybe a late inning or middle inning role for defense. Maybe a replacement for a posistion player who goes into relief pitch. And of course in a blow out numerous changes as early as I feel I can.

But in any case I have it on paper before every game. Many times if I know I have an arm on the hill that will dominate I will start guys I feel need the experience and need to get some abs. Especially in games I know we are superior to the other team.

Over the course of a season they all get plenty of opportunities. Sometimes a player will win a starting job. But they all get experience and opportunities. We play to win and we play our best players the majority of the time. But there are plenty of opportunities to give other guys a chance to prove me wrong. And sometimes they do. And sometimes they dont.

First, baseball and football are significantly different to me.

Because of the ability to sub in and out in football, you have a lot more flexibility in using players than you do in baseball. Not to mention, football has 22 positions vs 9 in baseball.

I believe that anyone that wants to play on the football team should be allowed to. There is a big need for lots of players in all the practicing that has to be done. Not to mention players can play JV games to get experience so that when they are needed in a varsity game, they are ready to go.

I had a lot of friends that loved being on the football team whether they got in a game on Friday night or not. Being part of the team was what they wanted. They did not have the skills to contribute in an important game, but contributed a lot in practice and got to play in JV games. If the roster had been limited, they would not have been able to be part of the team, which would have been the biggest travesty of them all.

I agree with most on here that if you are ahead by 35-40 points, get the reserve players in.

If you are behind, by giving in and sticking the subs in, you are telling the players and the fans that you are giving up and now it is just about working players in. It's hard to keep a job long if people think that there is any point in a game that you are giving up. If you are down by 50, then, it's easy to see you are out of it, but less than that, a highly competitive coach has a hard time admitting he is out of it. I am not saying there are not coaches that refuse to think about there subs and feel that only the starters have earned the right to be in there, but I don't think that is the case for most coaches.

As for baseball, don't have kids on the roster you don't intend to play. It is just too much work trying to get them in if you have such a small set of scenarios to use them.

Then there is the other problem: All the sour attitudes that fester in the dugout as the season progresses, and all the sour parents in the stands to boot. Not conducive to a successful season, and it tends to implode right around playoff time!

I think it all depends on the kid. I have had kids that worked their butts off. Did everything we asked of them to do. Were great team mates. They might not have been great players but they earned the right to be on the team. I let them know up front what their role was going to be. I told them I would give them opportunities when I could. And I let them know that they were going to have to be able to live with that in order for me to keep them on varsity. I have never regretted keeping one of these kids on my team. And sometimes they come up big for you when you least expect them to.

Some of the best memories I have had as a hs coach is seeing these young men get those chances and seeing that smile on their face when they did get those chances. And on Sr night when they get to walk onto the field with their parents and get recognized as being a part of the team and program. I think the more kids you can impact and allow to have the experience the better. I know you can not keep all of them. I know some just can not handle the role you see for them. In these cases you have to let them go.

But I have always looked for reasons and ways to give kids a chance instead of reasons not to. I have always looked for reasons to allow kids to experience hs baseball. For them its the last time around. For the ones that can play there will be more opportunities. I have cut kids that can play but were not willing to be a part of a team. I have never cut a kid that couldnt play that was willing to be a part of a team.

They know what I am about. I am about the team. And they know if they are not they wont be around for long no matter how good they are. There is nothing sweeter than seeing a kid battle his butt off for a chance and then seeing him get it. And those are memories I will always cherish.

Jonathon

I first met Jonathon in July four years ago. It was the first day of our summer work out program. Our summer program runs from the first Monday after July 4th. We go five days a week with conditioning , hills , sprints , core work , weight lifting , flipping tires , running stadiums , running sprints with bricks in their hands , just about anything I can come up with to see who wants it and who wants to get better. They are put on a long toss program , they work on hitting on some days etc etc and all of that is ran by our srs.

The first day of the summer program we have a test. They must run a mile for time. They run the 60. We measure them and weigh them. Jonathon was FAT. He was out of shape. I dont think he had ever been in shape. He could hardly catch. He couldnt throw the baseball from 3 to 1st in the air. He had no confidence. He barely talked. He was a horrible baseball player to say the least.

I introduced myself to the new guys and told them that the summer program was designed to build mental toughness , to see who wanted to invest in the baseball program , to get them in the best shape of their life , to teach them that everything had a price , and to help them learn how to get bigger stronger faster and more athletic.

We started with the mile run and Jon ran about a quarter of a lap and started walking. Quite honestly I was shocked he made it that far. The other players completed the mile run and Jon started walking back over to the group. I told him "Finish your mile we dont quite around here." He walked some , he jogged some and he finally finished.

He never missed a day. Through the summer , through the fall , through the winter. He came out for baseball in the spring and he was still horrible but in a little better shape. We kept him on JV because he worked so hard. He was told he would probably never play but he could be on the team and do what we asked him to do.

Four years later and Jon is on the varsity. He doesnt miss anything no matter when it is. He works all the camps. He ran a 7:30 mile this summer. He is in excellent physical condition. He has a tremendous amount of pride in knowing he is in our program. He is still not a very good baseball player. But he is an outstanding bullpen catcher. He has so much self esteem. He laughs and jokes with all the guys and he loves his baseball program. We bought him a brand new set of gear and an A2000 mitt. No one I mean no one is more proud to be a part of our program than he is. He will walk out there on Sr night and he will be recognized as a four year player in our program. And he has learned just as much as any player has ever learned in our program. No way in hel I am ever going to take that away from someone that wants it as much as a kid like this. Its about more than W's and L's. Its about a things that are a whole lot more important than that.

By the way he already has a job as a BP catcher at a D3 program next year. And I promised him I would be at a game to see him Play.

No one will care or remember how good he was. But he will remember someone gave him a chance. And maybe he will do the same one day.

Coach May,

You are a class act!Our sport and kids could use more coaches like you.May god bless you.

Aloha,Sugi.

I do not understand with football as you have free substitution. Now with baseball you have the re entry rule so what is the big deal? So in football you win 42-0 rather than 35-7

My son's girl friend made the varsity basketball team last week. She is a junior. The coach told her she would not play in any games, her role is to support the team during games, and to be used as a practice player in practice as the other team to get the starters ready for the next team. She is a role player. The coach said that if she didn't want this she could play JV. The JV team has 18 girsl on it, and there are no swing players. She told the coach she would stay with Varsity. Her parents are mad at the coach, I know the coach and I think that in blow outs she will get some game time. One other thing the girlfriend most likely won't be a starter her senior year. She understands her role and will be with her friends, not under classmen. I think that if a coach handles it correctly and lets the kids now their role and they understand it its ok. Varsity teams play to win, not equal playing time.

fivehole

I agree with you---in the case you cite the young lady had it all explained to her and she had the opportunity to make the choice--a player cannot ask for more

I believe in being honest with our players---a few years back we were in a tournament and we got to the point where we needed to win one game in hopes of making it to the final game---therein lies the problem---who pitches the next game if we get there? --I took the young man aside, he had been with for the prvious season, and explained the situation---I wanted him for the next game if it happened---it meant that he may not pitch in the tournament at all if we did not advance---but if we didn't he was the first game pitcher the upcoming weekend---he fully understood that if we made it to the final he was being counted on to win it for us---as it turned out he did not pitch in the tournament---but because we talked it out there were no bad feelings---the "team players" understand it and as a coach you have to know who those players are---you cannot do it with all players---to this day this young man is one of my favorite players that we ever had on our roster over the years--he knew what his role was and he knew how to handle it the proper way

Why do football coaches keep in the starters and run up the score?

- Everyone in the state and maybe other states notice a 65-0 score. They don't notice 35-7. Winning big gets a high ranking in the ridiculous high school polls voted on by media that seldom see the teams play.

- The team that wins big consistantly may get to play on ESPN or another sports network (my big beef with televising high school sports more than local cable and state playoffs)

Why so many players when they're not going to play?

- It can be intimidating to see eighty players coming down the runway and do warmups, even if forty of them couldn't beat the Little Sisters of Mercy.

- More players to hold the tackling dummies in practice.

- Some kids would rather be in a uniform than in the stands even if they don't play. They're part of something.

quote:

Jonathon

I first met Jonathon in July four years ago. It was the first day of our summer work out program. Our summer program runs from the first Monday after July 4th. We go five days a week with conditioning , hills , sprints , core work , weight lifting , flipping tires , running stadiums , running sprints with bricks in their hands , just about anything I can come up with to see who wants it and who wants to get better. They are put on a long toss program , they work on hitting on some days etc etc and all of that is ran by our srs.

The first day of the summer program we have a test. They must run a mile for time. They run the 60. We measure them and weigh them. Jonathon was FAT. He was out of shape. I dont think he had ever been in shape. He could hardly catch. He couldnt throw the baseball from 3 to 1st in the air. He had no confidence. He barely talked. He was a horrible baseball player to say the least.

I introduced myself to the new guys and told them that the summer program was designed to build mental toughness , to see who wanted to invest in the baseball program , to get them in the best shape of their life , to teach them that everything had a price , and to help them learn how to get bigger stronger faster and more athletic.

We started with the mile run and Jon ran about a quarter of a lap and started walking. Quite honestly I was shocked he made it that far. The other players completed the mile run and Jon started walking back over to the group. I told him "Finish your mile we dont quite around here." He walked some , he jogged some and he finally finished.

He never missed a day. Through the summer , through the fall , through the winter. He came out for baseball in the spring and he was still horrible but in a little better shape. We kept him on JV because he worked so hard. He was told he would probably never play but he could be on the team and do what we asked him to do.

Four years later and Jon is on the varsity. He doesnt miss anything no matter when it is. He works all the camps. He ran a 7:30 mile this summer. He is in excellent physical condition. He has a tremendous amount of pride in knowing he is in our program. He is still not a very good baseball player. But he is an outstanding bullpen catcher. He has so much self esteem. He laughs and jokes with all the guys and he loves his baseball program. We bought him a brand new set of gear and an A2000 mitt. No one I mean no one is more proud to be a part of our program than he is. He will walk out there on Sr night and he will be recognized as a four year player in our program. And he has learned just as much as any player has ever learned in our program. No way in hel I am ever going to take that away from someone that wants it as much as a kid like this. Its about more than W's and L's. Its about a things that are a whole lot more important than that.

By the way he already has a job as a BP catcher at a D3 program next year. And I promised him I would be at a game to see him Play.

No one will care or remember how good he was. But he will remember someone gave him a chance. And maybe he will do the same one day.

Coach May gets my vote as "my ideal" High School coach!

The best coach my son ever had in HS was his football coach. In his sophmore year he played varsity and had a tough time and the team didn't do so well. The coach left and the first thing the new coach said was "I don't need to have shut outs when blowing out another team and I don't feel like I have to score when getting blown out. If a kid works out with the team and follows the rules he will get his shirt dirty in every game, especially blow outs. If I were playing on the team getting blown out, I would want to score.... so it would be a win win for all involved. I am not here to embarass kids on either side of the ball."

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Why do football coaches keep in the starters and run up the score?

Ah, but I asked why a losing (by four TDs with 8 mins to go in the fourth quarter and the closest you've come to the end zone all night is your own 45) coach would leave starters in against the winning team's third stringers.

Tough place to play and the opposing team's fans were not amused. They let 'em have it.

"O-ver ra-ted!"
"You can't sco-ore!"
"They're all fresh-men!"

When they finally scored with 1 min left, the boos were deafening. I felt bad for the players and parents, but not for the losing coach. He deserved it. These two schools are likely to cross paths again. I'm sure the winning coach will not show the same mercy, if he's in that position again.