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Today's cadre of ML umpires have been castigated as incompetent, lazy and unworthy of working the sport. I've given this a lot of thought lately as I've spent a lot time over the past six summers watching and apeaking with MiLB and MLB umpires. I also have spent considerable time watching film from the 50's. 60's, 70's and a few from as far back as the 40's.

From the evidence, I find no significant difference in performance, overall, between today's umpires and those of yesteryear. In fact, today's umpires, on average, are more athletic and mover more and quicker to get to their spots to make calls.

There's no Eric Gregg strike zones being called today, and in fact the outsde of the plate is being controlled better than a couple of games I got to review played in the 40's, including one with Bob Feller on the mound as the Indians took on the Yankees in 1946. Feller got the advantage of a huge strike zone.

Bangers at first...no difference. Number of arguments after close plays...no difference.

Here are differences: Endless Instant Replay. Replay was introduced in 1963 but didn't become a regualar part of baseball until 1965. Prior to that everyone from the umpire to the manager to the fan had one realtime look at the play. Differnces of opinion would pretty much just that, and they did not last long. With no evidence of an error, sportswriters and fans moved on.

Even when replay first became popular, a play was replayed one time, and then then everyone, even the announcers, goyt on with their lives. The technology at the time did not allow easy, nor quick replays over and over.

Another difference: More cameras shooting from more and different views. Some of the earliest games had one, then two , then three cameras...all positioned on the meezzanine level. Even as late as 1970 there were just five cameras, four on the mezzanine and one in centerfield.

Things started popping. In 1990 there were 12 cameras and nine taping machines. Today, there are more still and they are at set at different levels and angles providing views that, at times, no umpires has access to in real time.

And the advent of HD as added more clarity and a better view for everyone but the umpire.

Today, with cameras surrouding every play and every pitch, and the truly "instant" instant reply, fans can be shown anywhere between four and eight replays of a close call or pitch, and even more if the announcers decide to go back to it later in the game.

Stills can be taken from these digital videos and are often featured in papers and on websites.

So the umpire errors of today, unlike those of the 40's, 50, 60, 70, and to a large extent, the 80's, are confirmed as fact rather than opinion. Thus it appears that umpiring has declined.

It has not. The newer umpires are in better shape than ever. They are better trained than ever and they have better mechanics than their earlier brethern. They also have unforgiving, fully exposing and relentlessly playing evidence of their errors that their early brethern did not have.

And, notice that I said "errors." For some reason it is not deemed "good television" or interesting journalism to use instant replay on the 95%+ of the calls they get right.
Last edited {1}
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I don't think there is any doubt at least for me that the umpires of today are much better. They are more professional. They are better trained. They are in better shape.

The problem is they are in a no win situation. Every call can be scrutinized in a manner that it never was before. Umpires had a tough enough job already now its even harder.

Imagine if every day you went to work their was a camera right there watching every move you made. Scrutinizing every decision you made. And in an workplace where you had to make split second decisions.
I agree with both of your obsevations. The thing that Jimmy left out is the advent of twenty-four hour sports channels. Not only are there many more cameras and angles there is a need to fill hours upon hours of programming. Does anyone think we wold have seen the ball hit the knob of Jeter's bat 100,000 times if it had happened before ESPN and other sports channels?
I just wish they were accountable, the way any other highly compensated employee would be held accountable, when they perform poorly. The players (other than your rare Manny Ramirez type situation) know that if they perform poorly, someone else will take their slot. Being an MLB umpire is like being a Supreme Court justice -- you get to stay until YOU decide you want to go.

Among other things, Bob Davidson's insistence on calling balks that cannot be seen by anyone else, even with video assistance, has become a running joke. And the way umpires have taken it upon themselves to change the game by ignoring a substantial portion of the strike zone is a disgrace that should never have been allowed to happen.
Last edited by Midlo Dad
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
And the way umpires have taken it upon themselves to change the game by ignoring a substantial portion of the strike zone is a disgrace that should never have been allowed to happen.


Midlo,
I believe that MLB is getting the exact zone they want. Its taught, monitored and reienforced by mechanical monitoring.......

If what you are refering to is the zone in the rule book, MLB does not own the rule book, the Players Union has to agree to any rules changes as well and a proposed update of the rules to clarify and reorganize them has been promised for years with no results in sight.....
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I just wish they were accountable, the way any other highly compensated employee would be held accountable, when they perform poorly. The players (other than your rare Manny Ramirez type situation) know that if they perform poorly, someone else will take their slot. Being an MLB umpire is like being a Supreme Court justice -- you get to stay until YOU decide you want to go.

Among other things, Bob Davidson's insistence on calling balks that cannot be seen by anyone else, even with video assistance, has become a running joke. And the way umpires have taken it upon themselves to change the game by ignoring a substantial portion of the strike zone is a disgrace that should never have been allowed to happen.


1. Absolute nonsense. ML Umpires are held accountable. Fines are issued every year and umpires are requested to retire. Fans assume that because ML does not make their personnel actions with umpires public, they do not exist.

2. The strike zone is being called better today than anytime in history. The rule book high end is not as high as some fans like to believe and there are no Eric Gregg types calling six inches outside any more. The films I've seen of the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's contain very wide stike zones. The upper end is called high in the early films, but that is because the book zone of that era was higher.

3. The balks being called can, if you are trained and know the balk rule, be seen. I love it when West's crew called two balks on Buehrle and an annoucer said, "Folks there is NO balk there" when Buehrle clearly stepped more towards home than first.

They then question why West's crew is the only crew to call the balk? The real question should be why don't the other crews call it? Buehrle balks nearly every game.
quote:
They then question why West's crew is the only crew to call the balk? The real question should be why don't the other crews call it? Buehrle balks nearly every game.


Then they should punish every other crew who does not call it. The question with the most recent one, why did the home plate umpire call it and not the 1st or 3rd base umpire. You telling me the PU had a better view of it?

quote:
1. Absolute nonsense. ML Umpires are held accountable. Fines are issued every year and umpires are requested to retire. Fans assume that because ML does not make their personnel actions with umpires public, they do not exist.


They should make them public. They are public figures just like every one of the players, coaches, and managers. I think they should force retirement at a certain age as well. I believe FIFA does this with s****r. I'd be interested to know if other sports do as well..
quote:
Originally posted by Bulldog 19:

Then they should punish every other crew who does not call it. The question with the most recent one, why did the home plate umpire call it and not the 1st or 3rd base umpire. You telling me the PU had a better view of it?


Wow. Such aggession. "Punish" umpires for differning on a judgment call?

Umpires are responsible for their own calls, not each others. Can't begin to tell you why one call it and not another. Personally, I think U3 had the best view of Buehrle's balk.

I've numerous occasions when I called a balk my partners missed or one of them called one I missed. Sometimes it's a matter of one beating the others to the punch.

quote:
They should make them public. They are public figures just like every one of the players, coaches, and managers. I think they should force retirement at a certain age as well. I believe FIFA does this with s****r. I'd be interested to know if other sports do as well..


Back in the day, when discipline of umpires was made public, players and managers tried to take advantage of it, thus the current policy. (Leave it to players and managers to screw up a good thing)

Getting a mandatory retirement age involves federal law and the union agreement. From what I hear, the union is expecting that one will be attempted, though.

Your fortunate you living in the age of good umpires. God knows what would happen to your blood pressure if you lived in the 50's.
Last edited by Jimmy03
Guys think about it like this - a balk is a judgement call just like a holding call in football is in football. In fact most people don't understand the holding rule and what is accepted as legal. By rule in football an offensive lineman can grasp and hold the defender's chest plate as long as the hands stay inside the frame of the body (inside the shoulders). So the question is - when does the hands actually end up outside the fame? I'm sure each ref in football has their own judgement as to when that happens - just like each ump makes a judgement of when the pitcher gains ground versus going to the plate too much.

I know I've watched many plays where I truly felt the other team's linemen whad their hands inside their frame but the ref didn't see it that way. It helped my team but I believe if I was the ref I wouldn't have called it.
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:
Jimmy they were the best at what they did in their day. Just like players they are better at what they do today than in the past.


Absolutely no argument, coach. My point exactly.

When people b!tch that umpires don't all make the same calls, I like to ask them if the top 64 baseball players all approach the game in the same way, have the same skills, see pitches the same and have the same understanding of situations.

Umpires are also individuals, even though they experience the same training.
Last edited by Jimmy03
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
I've numerous occasions when I called a balk my partners missed or one of them called one I missed. Sometimes it's a matter of one beating the others to the punch.

This.

During a clinic this past weekend, I was working the plate. I had a catcher that liked to move around. During one pitch, he moved as F1 was coming set. It distracted me, causing me to look down. At that point, I hear BU yell "That's a balk!"

After the game, I asked him what happened. He said F1 double-set. I told him I missed it due to F2 moving around. When I watched the video later, I saw the double-set; it was a good call.
Are you kidding? Watch the Billy Martin, Earl Weaver type managers argue with the umpires of that day. The umpires were very in your face umpires, they were taught to be that way. Now they are taught to be much more PC. Do they get into arguments,sure,but for the most part they have to be drawn into it. You have to remember they are arbitrating in a very big business with guys with huge egos. Sometimes asking nicely to please return to the dugout just doesn't work.
In some some areas we are being told that,"Knock it off!" is too confrontational, but believe we should allow managers to get our head out of our *** and that is fine.
If you believe that today's umpire's are more aggressive than those of the past, yoiu are either under 40 or have a bad memory.

Today's arguments are tame compared to those of the 40's, 50's and 60's in agressiveness, duration and language. When Earl Weaver would tell an umpire "F U", they would reply "F U, too, Earl and the effin horse you rode in on."

Today, they would fined for responding in such a manner. I know of a professional umpire who was fined for saying to the dugout, no one player in particular, "Shut the F up."
Those arguments may have been due to the temperment of the managers. Weaver, Martin, Mauch were all half crazed when they went off. Today we have Pinella and maybe Guillen.

If the umpires of today aren't being taught to be confrontational and arrogant they are picking it up somewhere along the line. You can't tell me there are umpires out there with chips on their shoulders just looking to toss somebody for questioning there decisions. Why did the young AAA umpire throw out Ryan Howard so quickly for questioning a check swing? Was he trying to earn a reputation?
Last edited by fillsfan
quote:
Originally posted by Will:
Situation

Shane victorino called out on check swing. replay showed it was questionable ok that happens. He banged his helmet. Ok 3rd base umpire notes it and says fine for throwing equipment. victorino is walking away towards the dugout. He tosses him. I guess he showed him?


That the announcer's account. Did you and hear what Vittorino did and said after tossing his gear, or did you just see the TV feed and listen to the announcers.
quote:
That the announcer's account. Did you and hear what Vittorino did and said after tossing his gear, or did you just see the TV feed and listen to the announcers.


If he said anything as he's walking away from the umpire, the mics near homeplate would have picked up on it long before the umpire 120 feet away would have.
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
03

Around here they actually wear yellow and red more than blue--we very rarely see them in black

You ejection statement I cannot agree with--the umpires of today have shorter fuses than ever before


Once again you refuse to let facts interfere with your opinion. Predictable.

Yellow and Red? In 30 years, I've never see a yellow umpire shirt. I wear, in order of frequency, Black, Polo Blue, Creme, Navy.
quote:
Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
quote:
That the announcer's account. Did you and hear what Vittorino did and said after tossing his gear, or did you just see the TV feed and listen to the announcers.


If he said anything as he's walking away from the umpire, the mics near homeplate would have picked up on it long before the umpire 120 feet away would have.


So you did not see what the batter did after tossing his gear and you did not hear what he said, yet you will pass judgment. Cool. Glad you're not my supervisor.
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
Jimmy

I don't really care what you have seen--I know what I have seen

As for the Victorino aspect---where does it say the home plate ump asked for help from the 3B ump? another example of showman umpires


You know what you have seen. I'm not reporting what I've seen. I'm reporting the facts. Again, you are using your limited experience in place of reality. You can repeat what you believe over and over. You can shout it louder and louder. Neither makes it real.

Are you now arguing that the umpire did not go to U3 on an appealed check swing of Victorino? Have you looked at the video? http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12248057

The catcher asks for an appeal, BU points to third base ump. Are you blind?

Good lord, ignorance of mechanics is expected, but refusal to believe the truth when it is clearly demonstrated is pathological.

This is just the ultimate TR. You win. I won't bother to try to prove anything to you again. You can undebatable evidence placed before you and still hold to you grossly incorrect opinion. Get some help.
Last edited by Jimmy03
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
NO I AM NOT BLIND????

Where in the Victorrino does it say the home ump asked for help ?? It says the 3B ump noted him tossing the helmet

You're insults are getting childish and boring--- and you are teaching in our nations education system---OUCH !!!!!


I posted the video URL. Are you too freakin' lazy to watch it? CLEARLY, the PU, (near 0:04)at the request of the catcher, goes to U3 on the appeal.

You bet I teach. I teach kids to research and take the time to find the evidence before making up their minds and living on opinion only like you do.

Good Lord. Who's being childish? The one who has presented the evidence or the one who refuses to look at it?
Last edited by Jimmy03
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
I am talking about the original post


So, you don't have enough interest to learn what really happened. You assume the original post contained everything. You prefer to argue without facts.

Two posts previously, I directed you to, and provided the URL for the video of what really happened. And even after that, you continued to deny that the PU went to U3.

Even after being provided with access to the facts, you ignored them and attacked my teaching.

You are really just too much.
Last edited by Jimmy03
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
I am talking about the original post


So, you don't have enough interest to learn what really happened. You assume the original post contained everything. You prefer to argue without facts.

Two posts previously, I directed you to, and provided the URL for the video of what really happened. And even after that, you continued to deny that the PU went to U3.

Even after being provided with access to the facts, you ignored them and attacked my teaching.

You are really just too much.


Do what I do. Ignore him.
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
AS usual you find you cannot debate with umpires ---Jimmyou keep doing that yuou will not learn anythingy--read what I posted and then say your piece

Matt

You do that and you will never learn anything and you umpires say that you want to continue learning


WTF are you talking about?

Wow. You can never admit you're wrong. You're trying to wiggle out of this by insinuating only the OP counts. I guess that could be true if you aren't interest in getting the full story of events, or if you hadn't asked questions. But you did ask questions,

You ASKED why U3 got involved. I answered with FACTS. You repeated your question, ignoring the facts. I answered with FACTs and provided visual PROOF. You ignored the proof and continued to argue nonsense.

Read the posts, TRWit:

TRWit: Why is the 3B ump even involved????

Jimmy03: Four man mechanics....left handed batter. Check swing appeal goes to U3.

TRWit: As for the Victorino aspect---where does it say the home plate ump asked for help from the 3B ump? another example of showman umpires

J: Are you now arguing that the umpire did not go to U3 on an appealed check swing of Victorino? Have you looked at the video? http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12248057

The catcher asks for an appeal, BU points to third base ump. Are you blind?

Good lord, ignorance of mechanics is expected, but refusal to believe the truth when it is clearly demonstrated is pathological.

TRWit: Where in the Victorrino does it say the home ump asked for help ?? It says the 3B ump noted him tossing the helmet

J: I posted the video URL. Are you too freakin' lazy to watch it? CLEARLY, the PU, (near 0:04)at the request of the catcher, goes to U3 on the appeal.

TRWit: I am talking about the original post


(Then after this post was answered, TRWit went back and added):

I think it is great how you forget the original statements and add things as you go along.

Are you really suggesting that posters should be limit their knowledge to an original post. REALLY?? What if the OP said “Derek Jeter is an absolute A-hole.” Would I have to accept that, or could I learn more about Jeter and then refute the post.

I can see where it suits your personality better not to spend any time or energy in pursing the whole story, but most of would rather get to the truth.

And you say I can't debate? I'm the one scoring the points. Yor are getting skunked.

Then you have the gall to tell Matt he won't learn if he ignores you. Really? If he had paid attention to you, he wouldn't know that PU appealled to U3. He'd be as ignorant as you. Instead, he didn't listen to you, investigated the call and saw the facts.

TRWhit, you are at least consistent. You never let facts and reality interfere with your opinions.
Last edited by Jimmy03
quote:
Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
quote:
That the announcer's account. Did you and hear what Vittorino did and said after tossing his gear, or did you just see the TV feed and listen to the announcers.


If he said anything as he's walking away from the umpire, the mics near homeplate would have picked up on it long before the umpire 120 feet away would have.



Sorry that I forgot to back to you on this.

According to the MLB report, When Shane threw his helmet in reaction to Angels call, Angle properly notified him that that was an "Equipment Violation."

Then, what was not reported by the announcers, nor shown on TV, Shane threw his bat, a second equipment violation which carries an ejection penalty. Angel then, properly, ejected Shane.

Shane, when he became aware of the ejection, shoved the plate umpire to charge Angel. For this he was suspended for, I believe, 5 games.

Thus, as usual, one needs to be careful accepting what they hear, and often, what they see, on a broadcast as the full story.
Last edited by Jimmy03
Lets face it, 40 years ago we didn't have the multiple media angles and replay that we have now. Just like in the NFL any blown call can be shown repeatedly on a jumbotron for all to see. It is easy to discount the human factor in sports but the human factor is what makes the game what it is.

The advent of digital reviews of every play has made it very easy to question calls or second guess every ruling. Right or wrong this puts a lot of pressure on officials to be perfect, which can never happen.
Absolutely agree with Wklink......k-zone, high-def, super slow motion, enhanced field level audio, etc definitely makes it tougher to be an umpire today. Additionally while you do not see the Weavers, Martins, Pinellas, Bobby Cox, managers who would intentionally argue to get tossed so their players wouldn't I believe today you see many more players verbally challenging the strike zone which is the unwritten rule.....there are ways to get the point across and the players are crossing the line so maybe is seems like more are getting tossed than before.

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