QUESTION

CoachB25, no disrespect meant, but I disagree and believe maybe you misread the question. I agree that because a guy was a great hitter does not mean he will ever be even a good coach, but the question asked was students of hitting. Not 1/2 hour ago, I was going through some articles I have collected over the years. This particular article was from a series that Mike Epstein did for Collegiate Baseball. It was about the mental side of hitting. He started off by telling about what a great coach Ted Williams was and how much better the Senators (I think) were when he came on board. Ultimately, it had nothing to do with changing stances but much more to do with showing guys how to defeat pitchers, what to look for, how to approach every at bat, etc. Tony Gwynn and Rod Carew are/were much the same and have both had some success as coaches- early for Gwynn, but he has already done a pretty good job with SDSU.

Now I firmly believe that there are many coaches that get jobs based on pro ball resume that could not coach their way out of a paper bag. In this case, I agree with you 100%. The things that make a good coach have so much less to do with playing ability and I actually believe that the marginal players that have to work hard , learn more, respect the game more make the best coaches.

Gywnn's results thus far...


2003 Totals...299 61-61

2004 Totals...298 64-64

2005 Totals...272 12-12

Not too bad, but there are many colleges over these totals. Good hitters can not always produce good hitters. Who knows, they may have hit .250 without Tony??

NO. Some are some are not. Some guys were average hitters and maybe never advanced to pro ball but can really teach hitting and know alot about it at well. I think what they have going for them is clout and experience. But that does not mean that they are great instructors or teachers or coaches. Like I said some are some are not.

I find it interesting that the majority of hitting coaches in the bigs were not great hitters during their playing time.

It would also be safe to say that Mike Epstein was not a great MLB hitter nor was Charlie Lau but they have done well as instructors/teachers

I am not even sure Rod Carew is working as a hitting coach in the bigs any more---correct me if I am wrong

Im not sure TR if he still is or not. I have seen some really good coaches at all levels that were not really good players. I dont think the ability to play or hit or pitch has anything to do with the ability to teach it or coach it. Do you have the knowledge and can you teach it and connect with the kids you are trying to teach. That is the most important thing.

TRHit

Rod Carew rejoined the Twins in January 2004, not as a coach however, as a member of the team's executive staff. Mostly PR & marketing stuff. He joined fellow Twins legends Harmon Killebrew, Tony Oliva and Kent Hrbek who work in similar capacities with the team.

R.

"Presentation of the facts is very important."

CoachB25, how true.......Pertaining to hitting, far too many Coaches change the facts to fit in with their belief system.....When they really should change their belief system to fit in with the facts.....

Blue

Don't the "facts" have to be adapted to each hitter as regards size , strength etal ?

To all good hitting instructors apply the same "facts"?

30 MLB hitting coaches -- are the "facts" the same for all of them?

"Don't the "facts" have to be adapted to each hitter as regards size , strength etal ?"

That's what most Coaches do....See my previous post....

"To all good hitting instructors apply the same "facts"?

What you consider good may not be what I consider good, so..............

"30 MLB hitting coaches -- are the "facts" the same for all of them?"

Yes.....

I don't necessarily think that being a great hitter makes you a great teacher or being a great hitter makes you a poor teacher. Sometimes I think a great player may become a "poor" teacher because he was a great player due to some advantage he had such as: exceptional eyesight, blazing fast hands, super speed, tremendous strength and such and didn't really understand the approach a less talented player may have to take. However, if the great player (hitter) really understands the mental side of the game and the mechanics, he can certainly be a great teacher or coach.

What is fact and what is opinion? Why not form a list of absolute facts regarding technique.

I’ll start with one… Baseball players need to have the ability to make adjustments. Or is that just an opinion?

My opinion as to the original question.

No, being a great hitter or pitcher does not automatically qualify someone to be a great coach. However, those who have participated at the highest levels have a step up on the rest. There are just certain things that many coaches have not had the opportunity to experience. And of course, those who were all star caliber players tend to get a players attention. Willie Mays may or may not be a good coach, but young players are going to listen to what he has to say.

Many of the best coaches and instructors were not the best performers during their career. But some of the best coaches and instructors were around the best performers and learned a lot from them. They also learned a lot from the high level coaches they played for.

The question in reverse would be interesting.

Could someone who has never played be successful as a Major League hitting coach?

PG

As t to you final question?

In my opinion it is possible for someone who never played MLB to be a successful MLB hitting coach.

For me the bigger question is this: Will he ever get the chance and if he does will the MLB hitters put their trust in him ? I dont think so.

TR,

There have been MLB hitting coaches who did not play in the Major Leagues. However, I believe most all have played at some high level usually professional baseball.

I was wondering if someone who has never played at a high level of any kind could be a successful MLB hitting coach. Has anyone ever heard of one that fits the description?

PGStaff,
I think that someone who never played at a high level could be a successful MLB hitting coach.

I doubt that it will ever happen because players with high level experience are more likely to be able to teach at that level and also are more likely to be able to get the respect of their students. Why would a MLB team take a chance on someone without that experience when there are many with that experience who have also proven themselves able to teach? (Oops! Looks like I just repeated what TR said.)

MLB will at times take someone without the ability to teach and make them a MLB hitting instructor based on their ability but that usually doesn't last long.

I can remember someone named Whitey Herzog Managing at the Major League Level. It seemed that the players listened to him. Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
PG

As t to you final question?

In my opinion it is possible for someone who never played MLB to be a successful MLB hitting coach.

For me the bigger question is this: Will he ever get the chance and if he does will the MLB hitters put their trust in him ? I dont think so.

I'm still hoping TR. I think my opportunity will come when you learn what facts are.

Will probably never be a mlb hitting coach because he isn't part of the establishment.

Yet, many mlb hitters have hitting coaches who are private individuals.

By private I mean not associated with mlb.

Teacherman

I think if you let your wife talk to my wife one on one we can solve this entire situation

Both wives are married to and living with egomaniacs--whose husband is worse than the other ==Who knows !!!! But I do know I am able to post my credentials-- and my wife likes that because she is part of it all--that is why I use the word "WE".

In addition I am a great cook !!!

Indoors and outdoors !!

PS___ both wives have to be going to heaven because they are with us--they have passed Purgatory !!!

quote:

...
In addition I am a great cook !!!

You spelled this right.....right?

Teacherman I would be willing to bet that you have more knowledge about hitting than some guys teaching hitting in Pro ball. I personally feel that I could manage better than some guys in pro ball. I have been to a ton of single a double aa games. Lets be honest alot of these guys are there because they used to play pro ball. It has nothing to do with their ability to teach or coach the game. Now I didnt say all or all levels so dont jump on this and go crazy. There are AAU coaches out there with a better abiltiy to coach than some college guys. Will they ever get a chance probaly not but that doesnt mean its not true. Dave Odom former coach at Wake Forest and current coach at South Carolina basketball got his start in coaching at Durham High School coaching football. The basketball job opened up and he got it. He had some success and boom. Tons of stories just like that all across the country.

Teacherman

I have already put it in my will that your name goes on my Cremation URN as my favorite fan.

And it will be right there with me ex wives

Love ya buddy

How about this TR and Teach. I will invite all the HSBBW old timers and anyone else on here to the big city of Stem this summer. We will have a HSBBW clinic for all the kids in my area using the HSBBW OldTimers as instructors. Cant you see it I can. Teacherman instructing kids on hitting and TR standing behind them telling them "Dont worry about it kid when he gets through screwing you up I'll take you to the other cage and straighten you up in no time".

What TR would say is....."don't fix what's not broken. Just do what ever you want. See ball, hit ball".

Teacherman

I have come realize that you "know" more than I do about "everything" as you inferred so many times so I would defer to one of my coaches to instruct. They might be a more even match for you . I am sure you don't want to compete against an "old guy who in antiquated in his thinking"--it would be too easy for you.

If the kid is a .450 HS hitter I won't even talk to him about hitting--I will just try to figure out where he bats in my lineup. If he hits .450 for me I would be more than pleased.

Coach May--- would this be like "IRON CHEF COOK OFF" ?

Mike Schmidt was a pretty good hitter but when he teaches that you should swing down on the ball in order to create backspin, I'd have to tell young players to run when he starts giving hitting instruction.

Source it at:

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/phi/news/phi_news.jsp?ymd=20030226&content_id=204643&vkey=spt2003news&fext=.jsp

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
I can remember someone named Whitey Herzog Managing at the Major League Level. It seemed that the players listened to him. Just a thought.

Whitey Herzog was a Major League player for 8 years.

bbscout

And not a bad player either

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Included in that is his recollections that while he didn't set the world on fire, he appreciated that the players took a professional attitude with regards to his knowledge. In fact, he did that speech a year or two ago when I did a camp with the Cardinals.

I've got to hand it to you CoachB25... You never miss an opportunity to pat yourself on the back.

Jason

Beat that chest.

Jason,

I apologize, I'll do better.

SBK

if Mike Schmidt talked about hittin "head for the hills"Well if my son was able i would tell him to listen. Mike Schmidt hit over 500 home runs and is in the hall of Fame. So before i ran for the hills i would at least listen.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
... before i ran for the hills i would at least listen.

Then at least listen with a filter.

I am with you Will

The man is a Hall of Fame player--he must have been doing something right to put up the numbers he did.

CoachB25

Keep going as you are pal--

B25
I think you sell yourself short......

Wish you coached in Al....we would win state and I would bet good money on that....

FlippJ is right. (and to think I didn't even post on which girl in the SI Swimsuit Edition was a former student of mine.)

TR and Will,

I’m sure all of us recognize that Schmidt is a Hall of Famer and that’s the problem. When he tells a kid they should be swinging down on the ball he has some clout and I’d be afraid they might listen.

Do you two think that is good advice to hitters?

How many homeruns of his 500 plus homeruns do you think Schmidt hit by swinging down on the ball?

"Head for the Hills" is just a figure of speech. I'd certainly recommend the kid stick around to get his autograph.


And one question for CoachB...... Which one?

As a Biology teacher, I can know all of the Biology ever written, but if I can't get my students to know it, I'm an ineffective teacher. As a hitting coach, if I can't get my hitters to understand what I'm trying to teach, I'm an ineffective coach.
Knowledge in an area and the ability to effectively pass that knowledge on to others do not always go hand in hand.

SBK

We are talking about listening to him not necessarily heeding him---why would you not "listen" to a Hall of Famer? There has to be something one can learn from him

This is where you so called "experts" err--- you think your way is the only way and then you disrespect a Hall of Famer and tell people don't listen to him.

One can lsten, learn and then do whatever he wants with the info--

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
SBK

We are talking about listening to him not necessarily heeding him...

Oh, you mean how I listen to my wife.

I'd be OK with that.