TR,
First of all, in my initial post, I figured that most all would understand the primary message I was conveying. In my second post, I directly said that I was using a figure of speech and figured that now, every one would understand what I was saying. As I’ve said before, I don’t have the time, patience and most likely the ability to make everything I write comprehensible by the densest among us or by a chef that likes to cook up some controversy.
Your last post may demonstrate why mlb hitting instructors are not likely to be replaced by non-mlb hitters. A hall of famer can go around telling people things like, “Hitters should make contact while swinging down” and get a free pass doing it. If Joe-Smoe said that, they’d be immediately called on it.
It’s not exactly like the trajectory of the bat at contact is an unimportant step of hitting a baseball. While I certainly respect the accomplishments of players like Schmidt and Bonds, I am not so star-struck that I allow them to distract my BS detector when it comes to common sense.
Were you going to answer my two simple questions?
Do you two think that swinging down on contact is good advice to hitters? (Another words, should they listen to Schmidt?)
How many homeruns of his 500 plus homeruns do you think Schmidt hit by swinging down on the ball?
SBK
for your ego I will answer ---
01-- they should listen to him and then take from it what they need
02-- I have no idea nor do you !!! He is comfortable with it so why shouldnt I
By the way--- he did it --have you ???
I like how all the experts with no "credentials" are telling us that we should not listen to Hall of Famers.
I like to listen to those who have "done it"--don't have to agree but I listen but at least they have a "resume" better than mine
for your ego I will answer ---
01-- they should listen to him and then take from it what they need
02-- I have no idea nor do you !!! He is comfortable with it so why shouldnt I
By the way--- he did it --have you ???
I like how all the experts with no "credentials" are telling us that we should not listen to Hall of Famers.
I like to listen to those who have "done it"--don't have to agree but I listen but at least they have a "resume" better than mine
I just want to go on record saying I wouldn't listen to anyone, Hall Of Famer or not, if he advocated swinging down on the ball.....So, please make sure I go in the right group.....Whatever that group is called....Thank you..... 
TR, You are drivveling.
The first question is a simple yes or no. Could you at least answer it? The question can have nothing to do with Schmidt. Do you think hitters should make contact on the downswing?
Would anyone like to join Bluedog and I in taking a stand on this issue?
Do you join us non-mlb hitters when we advise them that the bat should not make contact with the ball on the down swing or do you advocate Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt’s opposite approach?
The first question is a simple yes or no. Could you at least answer it? The question can have nothing to do with Schmidt. Do you think hitters should make contact on the downswing?
Would anyone like to join Bluedog and I in taking a stand on this issue?
Do you join us non-mlb hitters when we advise them that the bat should not make contact with the ball on the down swing or do you advocate Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt’s opposite approach?
If TR's on a side I want to be on the other side.
BlueDog,
For someone so interested in hitting, you unfortunately would be in the “wrong” group IMO. Unless, you feel that you couldn’t learn a single thing at all from a hall of famer. Why not just disagree with his view on swinging down and pick up something else. Surely we could all learn just a little something that could be valuable from those with the most experience.
First of all this was a story not a manual of hitting instruction. I think we would all agree that stories don’t always include everything involved in a subject. Often things are misinterpreted.
These are some things I took from the article.
1.The Phillies hired him to be a special hitting instructor in Spring Training.
2.Schmidt was quoted as believing in “chopping down”. Thome, Burrell agreed and Burrell said he couldn’t explain it. (Meaning he can’t explain the swing down, but he could show it) We would all like to see it! Therefore, there must be more to it than can be explained with two words (Chopping down).
3.Burrell claims that his work with Schmidt and hitting coach Gross helped him hit 37 home runs and get 116 RBIs last year. In other words he improved a lot for some reason.
4.Both said Burrell can get better yet.
5.Schmidt said,”Pat needs to be better at letting the ball get to him. It’s discipline, you can’t force the game. It’s a trait you only learn through experience.”
I would love to listen to what Mike Schmidt means by swinging down. It’s possible the written words aren’t describing what he really thinks. Some of the other things brought up in the article sound like things a hall of fame hitter might say.
Forgetting what Schmidt has accomplished as a hitter, this article is more revealing in regards to what Burrell accomplished as one of his students. Results are what count most. Whatever Schmidt did, in this case it worked. I don't agree with it and doubt it but if simply "chopping down" resulted in 37 HRs and 116 RBI in the Big Leagues. Well, I guess "chopping down" should be looked at a bit closer.
I have listened to former star players and came away thinking… They have no idea. I don’t get that feeling about Schmidt, not from this article anyway. I think the key is to listen closely to what everyone has to say, especially those with lots of experience. Then if you have a good baseball mind, you might learn something and still disregard other things.
Agree with him or not, I bet everyone posting here would love to listen to Mike Schmidt talk about hitting, at least one time. If not, we wouldn’t really be students of the game.
quote:I just want to go on record saying I wouldn't listen to anyone, Hall Of Famer or not, if he advocated swinging down on the ball.....So, please make sure I go in the right group.....Whatever that group is called....Thank you.....
For someone so interested in hitting, you unfortunately would be in the “wrong” group IMO. Unless, you feel that you couldn’t learn a single thing at all from a hall of famer. Why not just disagree with his view on swinging down and pick up something else. Surely we could all learn just a little something that could be valuable from those with the most experience.
First of all this was a story not a manual of hitting instruction. I think we would all agree that stories don’t always include everything involved in a subject. Often things are misinterpreted.
These are some things I took from the article.
1.The Phillies hired him to be a special hitting instructor in Spring Training.
2.Schmidt was quoted as believing in “chopping down”. Thome, Burrell agreed and Burrell said he couldn’t explain it. (Meaning he can’t explain the swing down, but he could show it) We would all like to see it! Therefore, there must be more to it than can be explained with two words (Chopping down).
3.Burrell claims that his work with Schmidt and hitting coach Gross helped him hit 37 home runs and get 116 RBIs last year. In other words he improved a lot for some reason.
4.Both said Burrell can get better yet.
5.Schmidt said,”Pat needs to be better at letting the ball get to him. It’s discipline, you can’t force the game. It’s a trait you only learn through experience.”
I would love to listen to what Mike Schmidt means by swinging down. It’s possible the written words aren’t describing what he really thinks. Some of the other things brought up in the article sound like things a hall of fame hitter might say.
Forgetting what Schmidt has accomplished as a hitter, this article is more revealing in regards to what Burrell accomplished as one of his students. Results are what count most. Whatever Schmidt did, in this case it worked. I don't agree with it and doubt it but if simply "chopping down" resulted in 37 HRs and 116 RBI in the Big Leagues. Well, I guess "chopping down" should be looked at a bit closer.
I have listened to former star players and came away thinking… They have no idea. I don’t get that feeling about Schmidt, not from this article anyway. I think the key is to listen closely to what everyone has to say, especially those with lots of experience. Then if you have a good baseball mind, you might learn something and still disregard other things.
Agree with him or not, I bet everyone posting here would love to listen to Mike Schmidt talk about hitting, at least one time. If not, we wouldn’t really be students of the game.
PG,
I agree. I certainly would like to listen to Mike Schmidt. He was one of my favorites growing up and the guy could beat you with more than his bat. The reason I even brought him up is because it was quite on topic. I would like to give him a chance to explain why he seems to be going against conventional wisdom and basic physics.
I have to believe he probably was trying to use this cue to over-correct a problem he saw in Burrell. Mr. Schmidt certainly didn’t hit 500 home runs hitting down on the ball and I would hardly believe that he would routinely advocate it to others.
I do get a kick out of TR who often seems to take an opposite view of what I’ve brought up no matter how obvious something might be.
As I told him last week, he can’t get me po’d because I know, just by the way others who I’ve come to respect on this board treat him, he must be a lovable fuzz ball who I have no doubt used to be a tough, hard nosed player. The kind that I would have rather had on my team than on the opponents.
In addition, when he’s not trying to stir the pot like a good chef, he’s offering good advice and is routinely is offering to go beyond the call of duty helping young players. I freely admit that since the short time I’ve been on this board, TR has been one of my favorites. Now that I’m on record admitting it, TR, I hope you don’t take it as a sign of weakness.
I’m still waiting for the day when TR joins us in holding Barry accountable. I would probably fall of my chair. Best to all!
I agree. I certainly would like to listen to Mike Schmidt. He was one of my favorites growing up and the guy could beat you with more than his bat. The reason I even brought him up is because it was quite on topic. I would like to give him a chance to explain why he seems to be going against conventional wisdom and basic physics.
I have to believe he probably was trying to use this cue to over-correct a problem he saw in Burrell. Mr. Schmidt certainly didn’t hit 500 home runs hitting down on the ball and I would hardly believe that he would routinely advocate it to others.
I do get a kick out of TR who often seems to take an opposite view of what I’ve brought up no matter how obvious something might be.
As I told him last week, he can’t get me po’d because I know, just by the way others who I’ve come to respect on this board treat him, he must be a lovable fuzz ball who I have no doubt used to be a tough, hard nosed player. The kind that I would have rather had on my team than on the opponents.
In addition, when he’s not trying to stir the pot like a good chef, he’s offering good advice and is routinely is offering to go beyond the call of duty helping young players. I freely admit that since the short time I’ve been on this board, TR has been one of my favorites. Now that I’m on record admitting it, TR, I hope you don’t take it as a sign of weakness.
I’m still waiting for the day when TR joins us in holding Barry accountable. I would probably fall of my chair. Best to all!
PG,
I agree on the Burrell situation. Another year of hitting .215 and Pat's out of the big leagues.
I agree on the Burrell situation. Another year of hitting .215 and Pat's out of the big leagues.
SBKJ
Thanx for the kind words but I am still watching my back
What is Bonds supposed to be accountable for? His attitude?
I like where he comes from--- his conference last week was a masterpiece---is he supposed to admit to something that nobody has yet to prove just appease people like you ??
If you review my posts you will see that I never said he wasn't a 'roids man--what I did say and still contend is that until they conclusively prove he did use them I say the man is innocent just any other player.
Have a good day
Thanx for the kind words but I am still watching my back
What is Bonds supposed to be accountable for? His attitude?
I like where he comes from--- his conference last week was a masterpiece---is he supposed to admit to something that nobody has yet to prove just appease people like you ??
If you review my posts you will see that I never said he wasn't a 'roids man--what I did say and still contend is that until they conclusively prove he did use them I say the man is innocent just any other player.
Have a good day
"For someone so interested in hitting, you unfortunately would be in the “wrong” group IMO."
PGStaff, thanks.......You got me in the group I want to be in......Thank you so much....
PGStaff, thanks.......You got me in the group I want to be in......Thank you so much....
"Schmidt was quoted as believing in “chopping down”. Thome, Burrell agreed and Burrell said he couldn’t explain it."
I do like listening to "good stuff", but this is not "good stuff".....
I do like listening to "good stuff", but this is not "good stuff".....
Blue Dog
What is "good stuff" ???
What you believe ?
What is "good stuff" ???
What you believe ?
TRhit, "good stuff" is a term people in our circle use to refer to what we consider to be a useful and meaningful hitting conversation......
I'm not particularly knowledgable about the swing, but when I look at the batting swings of the best hitters, it sure doesn't appear as if they are "swinging down" or "chopping " at the ball to me.
Rather, it appears that the plane of the bat is pretty close to matching the plane of the pitch when it hits the ball. And that would make sense to me as an effective approach - swinging "down" would mean that the timing would have to be perfect in order to hit the ball squarely. If the bat was swung on the same plane as the pitch, then it seems as if there would be far more room for error in timing and still have a chance to hit the ball squarely.
However, if you were to trace the path of the end of the bat on a home run hit off of a down-the-middle pitch, obviously the path would trace an arc that started in a downward direction, then circles up.
Perhaps this is what Schmidt meant when he said what he did. To me, this is not "swinging down" at the ball.
That is just my two (common) cents.
Rather, it appears that the plane of the bat is pretty close to matching the plane of the pitch when it hits the ball. And that would make sense to me as an effective approach - swinging "down" would mean that the timing would have to be perfect in order to hit the ball squarely. If the bat was swung on the same plane as the pitch, then it seems as if there would be far more room for error in timing and still have a chance to hit the ball squarely.
However, if you were to trace the path of the end of the bat on a home run hit off of a down-the-middle pitch, obviously the path would trace an arc that started in a downward direction, then circles up.
Perhaps this is what Schmidt meant when he said what he did. To me, this is not "swinging down" at the ball.
That is just my two (common) cents.
Blue Dog
You just said it all --"our circle" !!!!
Circles come in different dimensions--some are large and other sare very small
You just said it all --"our circle" !!!!
Circles come in different dimensions--some are large and other sare very small
TRhit, yes, the circle of which I am a member is very small indeed.....I feel quite comfortable being a member.....We're "out of the loop" shall we say.....The baseball establishment does not very much respect us, nor do we too much respect them......Understand I am talking about hitting only.....
TRhit, if I may expand?.......If the baseball establishment said, you boys are quite knowledgeable on the subject of hitting and we agree with your hitting theory, well, we would have to re-think our approach......Simply because we know what they teach and it doesn't match up with what we see in MLB hitters' swings.....So, we would have to question our own common sense.....With "them" disagreeing with us, well, it really makes us feel alot more comfortable with our approach to hitting.....It gives us a sense of well-being, if I may be so bold.......
Bluedog, When you say "the baseball establishment", who are you refering to? Mike Schmidt? He has been out of the game for many years, and managed an "A" ball team last year and then quit.He is a guest instructor in spring training once in a while. Have you ever spent time with any Major League hitting coaches and talked hitting with them? If so, who?
Did you ever sit down and talk hitting with Barry Bonds teacher......his dad? How about Ted Williams? He managed for a little while and the second year, every guy on the team had better numbers.
As far as Major League hitting coaches disagreeing with you.......they don't disagree with you.......they don't even know you exist.
Who have you taught and where are they at? That is my question.
Did you ever sit down and talk hitting with Barry Bonds teacher......his dad? How about Ted Williams? He managed for a little while and the second year, every guy on the team had better numbers.
As far as Major League hitting coaches disagreeing with you.......they don't disagree with you.......they don't even know you exist.
Who have you taught and where are they at? That is my question.
Rob Kremer, Good post.
Well, well, mention the baseball establishment and here comes Bbscout to the rescue..Imagine that.. 
"Have you ever spent time with any Major League hitting coaches and talked hitting with them?"
Scout, I would much rather talk hitting with SBK, Teacherman, or Swingbuster......You know, good stuff.....
"As far as Major League hitting coaches disagreeing with you.......they don't disagree with you.......they don't even know you exist"
Good, that's the way I prefer it.....
"How about Ted Williams? He managed for a little while and the second year, every guy on the team had better numbers."
Now, there's a successs story if I ever heard one......
......A little about Ted.....I prefer to look at video of him than to read his writings....Too many contradictions, although there are one or two pearls to be plucked from his writings......But, you must really search hard to find them.....
Like SBK, I'm not starstruck either.....And, to borrow his fabulous phrase, my BS detector is always up and running, also.....
"Who have you taught and where are they at? That is my question."
Scout, this is your favorite smokescreen question......You fail to realize that I don't crave or need the recognition.....You see, I don't care what you think.....
"Have you ever spent time with any Major League hitting coaches and talked hitting with them?"
Scout, I would much rather talk hitting with SBK, Teacherman, or Swingbuster......You know, good stuff.....
"As far as Major League hitting coaches disagreeing with you.......they don't disagree with you.......they don't even know you exist"
Good, that's the way I prefer it.....
"How about Ted Williams? He managed for a little while and the second year, every guy on the team had better numbers."
Now, there's a successs story if I ever heard one......
......A little about Ted.....I prefer to look at video of him than to read his writings....Too many contradictions, although there are one or two pearls to be plucked from his writings......But, you must really search hard to find them..... Like SBK, I'm not starstruck either.....And, to borrow his fabulous phrase, my BS detector is always up and running, also.....
"Who have you taught and where are they at? That is my question."
Scout, this is your favorite smokescreen question......You fail to realize that I don't crave or need the recognition.....You see, I don't care what you think.....
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
Well, well, mention the baseball establishment and here comes Bbscout to the rescue..Imagine that..
"Have you ever spent time with any Major League hitting coaches and talked hitting with them?"
Scout, I would much rather talk hitting with SBK, Teacherman, or Swingbuster......You know, good stuff.....
"As far as Major League hitting coaches disagreeing with you.......they don't disagree with you.......they don't even know you exist"
Good, that's the way I prefer it.....
"How about Ted Williams? He managed for a little while and the second year, every guy on the team had better numbers."
Now, there's a successs story if I ever heard one......
Like SBK, I'm not starstruck either.....And, to borrow his fabulous phrase, my BS detector is always up and running, also.....
"Who have you taught and where are they at? That is my question."
Scout, this is your favorite smokescreen question......You fail to realize that I don't crave or need the recognition.....You see, I don't care what you think.....
No smokescreen Bluedog, just a fair question that is answered by most good hitting coaches, but not by you.
All of Williams guys improved the second year, but you don't agree with him, so that must not count with you.
The question who have you taught and where are they at is a fair question when trying obtain information on a teacher, instructor or a coach. Now I for one have coached hundreds of kids over the years. Most of the kids that went on to play at the D-1 or pro level in my opinion had nothing to do with my coaching. They had talent a great work ethic and a strong love of the game. The ones that I truly feel that I impacted the most were the ones that were not very talented in the first place. These are the kids that without very good coaching instruction and motivation would never have had much success at the HS level. I truly cant take credit for the D-1 players or the pro signees. I do take credit for the kid that went onto to play some D-3 or community college ball that otherwise might have never played past HS. The D-1 or pro player is going to be good regardless of me. Ive seen clowns (coaches) that have had studs that have excelled in spite of pathetic coaching at the HS level. The player that gets hurt the most is the marginal player that with good coaching and instruction could develop into a college player. This might be off the subject but maybe its time to change this subject a little. The really good programs are really good programs not because of the number of D-1 or pro prospects they produce but the number of less talented players that they help become quality HS players. Just my opinion. Quincy Jones rec ball player. Didnt play HS freshman season. JV as a soph. All Conf as a Junior. All State as a Senior. All Conf his Junior and Senior season in college. College graduate. Never made an all star team in rec ball. Cut from his middle school team both years. These are the kids that I would answer that question with. Not the kid that signed with Atlanta in the second round. If I could make a kid a draft pick I wouldnt be coaching HS ball I would be making a whole lot more money.
Coach May, Very good post, and I think you are being modest. You helped the youngsters get to D3 and into JC's which is very good. You also helped the players you have had that went on to D1 and pro ball too. Kids with talent need help also, if they are to reach their highest level and from my past experience, I would have to say that the best players that I have seen were helped a lot by their HS coaches.
You may not have made the draft pick, but you very well could have helped a 10th rounder become a 5th rounder, and that is the point I was driving at,and you are the first person to give me a good answer to my question.
You may not have made the draft pick, but you very well could have helped a 10th rounder become a 5th rounder, and that is the point I was driving at,and you are the first person to give me a good answer to my question.
Coach
Your success doesn't surprise me.
Your money is made in the 7th 8th and 9th slot. (generalization).
The talent comes but never enough. The coach who solidifies his team by helping kids do more than they ever thought they could is the name of the game in my opinion.
I love teachers of skills versus lineup card fillers.
Your success doesn't surprise me.
Your money is made in the 7th 8th and 9th slot. (generalization).
The talent comes but never enough. The coach who solidifies his team by helping kids do more than they ever thought they could is the name of the game in my opinion.
I love teachers of skills versus lineup card fillers.
Coach May....good points..because you know when a guy has a gift and anybody tries to take credit for it nobody buys it and they shouldn't.
We have had three HRs in two games by two gifted 9th graders playing varsity. I have said only these things to them as I coached others....watch your alignment and relax...that is it. THey are that good.
I do know that the best coaches ,while maybe are not respondsible for the gift of swing, speed, vision, of great player DO contribute to their success in teaching the many intricacies of the game and helping them develop as good people. IN that regard you likely sell yourself short.
We have had three HRs in two games by two gifted 9th graders playing varsity. I have said only these things to them as I coached others....watch your alignment and relax...that is it. THey are that good.
I do know that the best coaches ,while maybe are not respondsible for the gift of swing, speed, vision, of great player DO contribute to their success in teaching the many intricacies of the game and helping them develop as good people. IN that regard you likely sell yourself short.
Coach May, good post.
Here in VA, we have a #1 overall projected pick in the 2006 draft. One of his coaches (not HS coach) wanted to be present at his signing with his college of choice, suggesting he helped him sign there. People close to the situation laughed at him.
I am glad to hear you are not "one of thos guys"
Here in VA, we have a #1 overall projected pick in the 2006 draft. One of his coaches (not HS coach) wanted to be present at his signing with his college of choice, suggesting he helped him sign there. People close to the situation laughed at him.
I am glad to hear you are not "one of thos guys"
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
TRhit, if I may expand?.......If the baseball establishment said, you boys are quite knowledgeable on the subject of hitting and we agree with your hitting theory, well, we would have to re-think our approach......Simply because we know what they teach and it doesn't match up with what we see in MLB hitters' swings.....So, we would have to question our own common sense.....With "them" disagreeing with us, well, it really makes us feel alot more comfortable with our approach to hitting.....It gives us a sense of well-being, if I may be so bold.......
So....you are more concerned with being anti-establishment? How does his help any hitters you work with?
"So....you are more concerned with being anti-establishment?"
Uh, no........But, if you wanna believe that, well,.................
Uh, no........But, if you wanna believe that, well,.................
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
"So....you are more concerned with being anti-establishment?"
Uh, no........But, if you wanna believe that, well,.................
Uh...well...that's what you said in your post.
Redbird, I have always believed you are one of those people who see what you want to see.......Everyone's perception is their reality....So,...... 
My last post to you on this subject.....
My last post to you on this subject.....
I guess I'm not in the group then?!?
