Question about High School Tryouts

quote:

Originally posted by KnightTime:

A kid who runs a 9-second 60 yd dash is a huge liability to the team, even at the freshman level. He would just about have to hit it over the fence to advance beyond first base. If he is standing on first base, what is the team's chances of getting him around the bases and actually scoring? What about the poor kid batting/running behind him? He can't advance either. A very slow runner on base bogs down the entire game plan. Can't sacrifice, play hit and run, steal, or even score from second on a single. As a coach, I'm stuck going station to station, and that will probably lose me some ballgames.

I may be wrong, but also suspect that your son has limited mobility behind the plate.

I don't think it's crazy of you to presume these things. Big kids are generally assumed to be that way. And unfortunately, tryouts in the gym generally work one way. Coaches can't see how a kid actually plays the game. They can't tell if a kid has good instincts or is a good baserunner. Our head coach (summer ball) during games he repeatedly demands the other kids on our team watch how my son takes a lead, gets a secondary lead, reads pitches to steal second, takes extra bases, etc. Though he is the slowest runner on our team in pure speed, he's our best baserunner (according to our head coach..it's not me making the claim). He has great instincts on taking extra bases...good at reading throws coming back to the infield. Ironically, a couple of our fastest kids make the most mistakes on the bases. Being fast is a big advantage, but doesn't make you a good baserunner.

Being the 3rd base coach for our summer team, I'm well aware of the effects of having slow runners on base. But we've structured our lineup in a way to take advantage of certain situations with bunt & run, etc. even when we have a slower runner on base. Plus my son and another of our slower runners are really good at reading low pitches and breaking pitches to get a couple extra steps toward second in case the ball gets away.

Please don't think I'm complaining. I'm not. And I'm not bothered by the assumptions...I'd think the same thing in your shoes. It's just the reality of tryouts in the high school gym. My only complaint, if you'd call it that, is that the catchers weren't tested well enough. My son has been taught blocking, foot placement with runners on base, footwork to throw, etc. The coaches didn't work out the catchers other than have them make 5-6 throws to 2nd in two tryout sessions. This is me thinking as a coach...why wouldn't they want to really test the catchers? The backup catcher that the team took is more athletic than my son, no question. He's a very good athlete. But he's caught very little. In the scrimmage they had Saturday he turned his back on balls in the dirt (actually pavement), took 4-5 steps out in front of the plate to make throws to second, etc. He's obviously not a catcher but perhaps the coaches assumed they could make him a catcher. Who knows?

It doesn't really matter now...my son will get another shot next year. They have their roster and we will go to the games and cheer for our team. We have a number of friends there including 3 kids from our summer team.

Thanks again for the advice. My son is planning to continue his workouts he's been doing since Christmas. And he's anxious to make improvements in his speed so we'll be timing him periodically to see how he's doing.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Stop trying to figure out the whats and the what nots, your son has plenty of time to play HS baseball.

JMO.

Thanks for the great advice (is there a sarcasm font available?).

Have you read that I've said my son was screwed and should have made the team? No. I anticipated that he would not make the team and I'm not the least bit angry. Playing freshman ball as an 8th grader is pure bonus as I said in an earlier post. My only complaint, if you want to call it that, is in my last post....since we're in a cold weather area our kids can try out primarily in the high school gym (they had one 3-inning scrimmage in the parking lot last Saturday). It's a complaint about the process and its limitations because of the weather, not faulting the coaches or saying they had something in for my son. If you think the tone or direction of my previous posts is from a 'crazy parent' then that's your right. I know what I feel and I know that I'm being honest with myself and with everyone on this site.

Feel free to move on to another thread if my posts disturb you so much.

YHF, Don't be so sensitive about a post.
It's hard to read emotion thru the key board.
I think what there saying is there's time to get better.
And not to worry about it.
Your son now can work on getting faster, and will grow into his body as he get's older.
Good Luck this year.
EH

Learn from the experience, move on, have him continue his conditioning, work on the speed find a good travel team to play on spring, summer, fall and this time next year it'll be history if it's meant to be.

I am wondering who is more disappointed, dad or son.

Your son was in 8th grade he wasn't ready, move on. No sarcasm.

YHF,
I've been reading this thread and feel as if your son's "journey" is like many high school catchers ---- and somewhat similar to my son. My son was always sluggish and not a good base runner. Strong arm and a strong bat and his defense was OK but not great. While your son may have has success in running bases in the past he will discover he's not a good baserunner (at some point). Don't fret --- that's not a huge problem for a power hitting catcher. In high school my son was always replaced with a "courtesy" runner and in college he managed to leg out a few runs unless it was in the 9th and he would be pulled and a pinch runner would run in his spot.
I would address his weight and like others have said I think a personal trainer would be good. I wouldn't necessarily do this to gain speed but to enhance his athleticism and to reduce the stress on his legs and back. Like your situation, our eighth graders can play varsity in our school system but ONLY if they are on the same campus as the high school. Since our "feeder" schools are not on our campus, there are NO 8th graders allowed to play at our HS while other schools in our town do play a few 8th graders. In other words the student is not allowed to travel between school campuses to play sports. As your son enters high school he needs to look at it as a four year trip ---- and not look at this one event as success or failure. Sound like he has a bright future.
Fungo

Thanks Fungo. I appreciate what you're saying.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
YHF, Don't be so sensitive about a post.
EH

I don't let too much bother me here on hsbbw. I assume a certain amount of stupidity exists on all such sites. But TPM has a history of condescending comments because she believes she knows so much more than other people on here. I know quite a bit about hitting instruction and when I read something curious, I ask questions to better understand. I don't presume to know more than the other poster because I don't know who he or she is. Once I get some dialog going I will have a better understanding of that person's experience and perhaps I can provide some suggestions that might be helpful, or (importantly) I might learn something. TPM has no problem providing advice/suggestions/conclusions that she doesn't have a clue about other than what she's read or been told by others.

See, when you assume things about other posters it comes across pretty poorly huh LOL. Maybe I'm wrong about TPM. Maybe she has charted pitches. Maybe she has taught her son how to set up batters. Maybe she coached and had to make roster decisions.

Well let's just settle the current discussion....after insulting me, here is TPM's conclusion about my son's tryouts....

"Your son was in 8th grade he wasn't ready"

I will ask you TPM, what qualifies you to say he wasn't ready?

You obviously don't know any of the participants. You don't know the coaches. You don't know any of the players. You didn't observe any of the tryouts. You don't know the coaches' roster needss etc. etc. etc. So you must have a lot of experience with tryouts and making roster decisions. Well let's hear it. How are you qualified to speak at all about the results of our local tryouts?

i have seen so many catchers who think they're good but really stink. Their dads think they are good as well and go to bat for their kid, which is natural instinct. My instict tells me your kid has some gifts or tools that will propel him to where he needs to get to be productive behind the plate on defense and offense. he probably just needs to lose some of that cottage cheese he's been holding on to since the 4th grade. get him running and good luck!

So now that I've vented, I'll post my thoughts about the tryouts. First, here are my qualifications....

1. I've played or coached in 30 of my 40 years on earth including coaching teams ranging from 9u to 16u.

2. I currently do hitting instruction for about 40 kids.

3. I've run tryouts and made roster decisions for about a dozen different teams of all ages over the years.

4. Our local Little League president has asked me the last 3 years to run his 11/12 all-star tryouts even though I don't coach in their league and I don't have kids playing LL.

5. My middle son plays for a good 12u team. I bet there aren't too many coaches that can say this....the coach for our rival 12u team has asked me to help with his tryouts and help him make roster decisions the last couple years.

I think that's enough to establish my background.

Now....from my perspective...a coach's perspective rather than a parent's perspective....

Regarding my son's tryouts that just happened, I know the coaches a little and I know 90% of the players trying out given that I've coached them or coached against them the last 3-4 years. Seeing the coaches roster decisions, I probably would have kept a couple kids they cut and cut a couple kids they kept, just based on knowing those kids' abilities from summer ball, but all in all it looks like they did fine on their roster.

What about my son? Personally, I don't think he was the first or second best catcher. He was the only experienced first baseman and showed the best 1B skills at tryouts (defined as footwork, fielding grounders and picking short-hopped throws), but the other kid at 1B was more athletic and could cover more ground. It was borderline to me. The coaches probably figured they could take the more athletic kid and teach him footwork and throw him a million short hops the next few weeks and make him a first baseman. I don't have a problem with that theory, especially since the other kid is a freshman and my son is an 8th grader.

So there you have it. I don't have any real issues with the results. I was sad for my son because he was so disappointed. But in my heart of hearts I figured he wouldn't make it and so I wasn't that surprised. That's the coach in me more than the parent in me who certainly roots for his sons.

I hope that helps explain to everyone why I've posted what I've posted, and why I was a bit offended by uninformed posts.

quote:

Originally posted by switchitter:
i have seen so many catchers who think they're good but really stink. Their dads think they are good as well and go to bat for their kid, which is natural instinct. My instict tells me your kid has some gifts or tools that will propel him to where he needs to get to be productive behind the plate on defense and offense. he probably just needs to lose some of that cottage cheese he's been holding on to since the 4th grade. get him running and good luck!

Thanks Switch. As I just posted a moment ago, I don't think he was one of the two best catchers though he has time to improve. Thanks for your advice.

quote:

Originally posted by YHF:
I don't think it's crazy of you to presume these things. Big kids are generally assumed to be that way. And unfortunately, tryouts in the gym generally work one way. Coaches can't see how a kid actually plays the game. They can't tell if a kid has good instincts or is a good baserunner. Our head coach (summer ball) during games he repeatedly demands the other kids on our team watch how my son takes a lead, gets a secondary lead, reads pitches to steal second, takes extra bases, etc. Though he is the slowest runner on our team in pure speed, he's our best baserunner (according to our head coach..it's not me making the claim). He has great instincts on taking extra bases...good at reading throws coming back to the infield. Ironically, a couple of our fastest kids make the most mistakes on the bases. Being fast is a big advantage, but doesn't make you a good baserunner.

YHF, you definitely seem like a great guy with some good knowledge of the game. I'll try not to make too many assumptions about your kid because I obviously have no idea how he really looks or plays.

If nothing else, please take the good advice of many on this forum, and get your kid into a good physical conditioning program. It's an unfortunate reality that coaches will tend to make assumptions about a kid that is out of shape, and slow to boot. The lack of speed in a player will become more and more pronounced as the kid moves up through the ranks. As he moves up through the levels, the game becomes faster and faster, so by the time your son hits varsity HS and beyond, he will become more and more handicapped if he doesn't improve his speed and conditioning right now. So, even though he can currently overcome his weaknesses, through his savviness and on-field intelligence, it will eventually catch up with him. Some HS coaches may hold a bias against him because they are projecting forward to when he is a Junior and Senior.

The good thing is, you seem to realize what he needs to do, and he is still very young. Do the right things now, and everything will take care of itself later on.

Knighttime, I really appreciate this post and your previous posts. Take a look at my most recent post about my son's tryouts.

I don't really have an ax to grind. We know what to work on. And good advice from you and others is much appreciated.

When he tries out again next year I'll post the results again.

Thanks.

This may be helpful. When my kid was in 8th grade he was considered too slow. As it happened he played s****r on his school team fall of freshman year and sophomore year, and club s****r those years as well on the weekends. Now he has not been caught stealing in two years and steals all the time. I believe there is no way you can duplicate the type of running this commie sport gives you and credit it with giving my kid one of the tools that got him the scholarship he will use to play baseball in 2009 at a fine school. Maybe you can get your kid on a team if he can fit it in. It does cost money though.

YHF ...

The big slug catcher from the LL I played in was just "big" in high school with a 90+ fastball. He pitched for an SEC program. He had the thrill of being on the mound for an ALCS clincher. He pitched six years in the majors.