Jerry, at this point I'll bet your tech guys are loving you right now.
Good stuff
By the way, why did mike.black have to list his location as New Jersey? Kind of makes us look bad.
PG,
you have done a great job explaining your program. Its a great program and doesnt really need to be justified. But if you enjoy doing the numbers then have at it. I just think people put way too much emphasis on all of this, kids develop differently , you could give some one a 6 and three years later that guy could get drafted. It is just a measuring stick. I guess as a non coach type person I just dont put all the eggs in one basket, for me even if my son had gone to a PG event and got a low rating which he might of as a sophmore,he just would continue to work hard.You guys have no way of predicting how a kid turns out, maybe like I said before the 9s and 10 s are a no brainer I dont know. You are well respected in the college coaches community and on this board as well. thanks for all your time doing all this.Anyway rest your brain , have a drink you have been at this for some time.
you have done a great job explaining your program. Its a great program and doesnt really need to be justified. But if you enjoy doing the numbers then have at it. I just think people put way too much emphasis on all of this, kids develop differently , you could give some one a 6 and three years later that guy could get drafted. It is just a measuring stick. I guess as a non coach type person I just dont put all the eggs in one basket, for me even if my son had gone to a PG event and got a low rating which he might of as a sophmore,he just would continue to work hard.You guys have no way of predicting how a kid turns out, maybe like I said before the 9s and 10 s are a no brainer I dont know. You are well respected in the college coaches community and on this board as well. thanks for all your time doing all this.Anyway rest your brain , have a drink you have been at this for some time.
Jerry:
I really appreciate all that you and your guys have done in bringing all this information forward. The transparency into all that is behind the scenes is really refreshing - no one else in the industry has ever done anything like this - once again showing why Perfect Game is above and beyond everyone else.
I really appreciate all that you and your guys have done in bringing all this information forward. The transparency into all that is behind the scenes is really refreshing - no one else in the industry has ever done anything like this - once again showing why Perfect Game is above and beyond everyone else.
quote:Originally posted by jerseydad:
By the way, why did mike.black have to list his location as New Jersey? Kind of makes us look bad.
..............too easy.
All ratings are starting points for the player, as well as recruiters and scouts. PG is a proven commodity, and if the D3 "coach" needs verifications, he needs to attend the venues PG has scheduled and just go do his homework. I wonder if PG could rate some of these coaches for us, now that would be entertaining.
My son (an 09) was given a rating of 8 at his first and only PG showcase in December of 2006.
He has since played in 4 PG events (Jupiter, 17U WWBA, Kernels and Wrigley Field)
He has moved up over 400 spots in the national rankings since this Spring, but his rating is still the same.
I'm not complaining about his rating, it is probably about right.(He was an early signee at a D-1 in the Sun Belt)
My question is this:
Are the ratings only given at individual showcases?
Was the rating ever re-evaluated from 2 1/2 years ago, or did the tournaments he played in just confirm that he is still an 8?
BTW, PG is a great organization!
All of their events have been first-class!
He has since played in 4 PG events (Jupiter, 17U WWBA, Kernels and Wrigley Field)
He has moved up over 400 spots in the national rankings since this Spring, but his rating is still the same.
I'm not complaining about his rating, it is probably about right.(He was an early signee at a D-1 in the Sun Belt)
My question is this:
Are the ratings only given at individual showcases?
Was the rating ever re-evaluated from 2 1/2 years ago, or did the tournaments he played in just confirm that he is still an 8?
BTW, PG is a great organization!
All of their events have been first-class!
ratings are only given at showcases. PG explains that somewhere above.
gitnby,
I tried to address this earlier, you might have missed it.
So a player graded 8 at a showcase (in say 2006) would still maintain that grade of 8 because it was based on that event at that time. However, within our database, there could be added enough reason to think this player is now much better than an 8 so he would move up in the rankings despite his last or only grade is an 8.
Maybe it's an area we could improve on, but presently we don't give a grade other than individual events. While this might be easy to do (change the system) for pitchers, it would be much more difficult for position players. Pitchers at showcases (individual events) pitch live to hitters in a game, very much like they do at a tournament. On the other hand, position players are graded on fielding, throwing, BP, running, etc. Much of what we can't see enough of during an actual game.
We certainly haven't got this stuff mastered yet. There is a lot of room for improvement. I actually enjoy hearing these type things because it makes us think. Intellegence is not our strong suit, so we tend to listen to what others say a lot.
I tried to address this earlier, you might have missed it.
quote:Sometimes we actually rank a lower graded player higher than the higher graded player. We get lots of emails and calls when that happens. It should be remembered that we only attach a grade from showcase events. We do not attach a grade to players in tournaments. That is because we can't always get enough during a game to accurately grade based on potential. However, let me give an example.
Player A is graded a 9 at a showcase.
Player B is graded an 8 at a showcase.
Player B didn't show as much ability at the showcase that player A did. But later on Player B showed a ton of ability at a tournament. He still shows up an 8, but we now think he is much better than an 8, in fact we think he is even better than Player A at this point, so we rank him accordingly.
So a player graded 8 at a showcase (in say 2006) would still maintain that grade of 8 because it was based on that event at that time. However, within our database, there could be added enough reason to think this player is now much better than an 8 so he would move up in the rankings despite his last or only grade is an 8.
Maybe it's an area we could improve on, but presently we don't give a grade other than individual events. While this might be easy to do (change the system) for pitchers, it would be much more difficult for position players. Pitchers at showcases (individual events) pitch live to hitters in a game, very much like they do at a tournament. On the other hand, position players are graded on fielding, throwing, BP, running, etc. Much of what we can't see enough of during an actual game.
We certainly haven't got this stuff mastered yet. There is a lot of room for improvement. I actually enjoy hearing these type things because it makes us think. Intellegence is not our strong suit, so we tend to listen to what others say a lot.
Baseball Factory was recently informed of the above thread on the High School Baseball Web Site. Since 1998, we have not had a consistent presence on this site, so it came as a surprise to our executive team.
Our mission as a company is to help youth and high school players develop their skills and ultimately find a place to play baseball in college. We have always supported and appreciated all businesses in the amateur baseball industry that work towards this common goal.
We have reviewed the posts and claims and will immediately look into this matter.
Our mission as a company is to help youth and high school players develop their skills and ultimately find a place to play baseball in college. We have always supported and appreciated all businesses in the amateur baseball industry that work towards this common goal.
We have reviewed the posts and claims and will immediately look into this matter.
quote:Originally posted by BF_STAFF:
We have reviewed the posts and claims and will immediately look into this matter.
Jason,
Not sure why you have posted here.
Not sure why BF, as you put it, seek
"a consistent presence on this site"
The BF executive team are reputable,
so I don't really understand nor believe
'it came as a surprise'.
Baseball Factory
I see no need for BF to sing it's own song,
as others have done here.
For my inaugural post on HSBBW, I can only echo the complimentary things that have been said about Perfect Game. My son went to a recent showcase; the level of play was very good. As many have suggested previously on this thread, those who might rate a 5 or below simply chose not to attend. By this time in their baseball careers, they may have come to the realization that this is just not what they are going to do in college, and their parents have accepted that as well. That said, we saw one competitor there that looked like he might not have the same skill level, but there is no doubt that he competed. He received a lower than what appears to be an average PG rating, but a bit higher than one might have expected, perhaps in part because he was convinced he could play this game at a high level. I don't know, but maybe the PG raters saw this in the kid, and gave him some subjective recognition for his effort and the way he carried himself; not cocky, by any means, but sure in his mind that he belonged. When this guy is done playing, it will be because they have dragged him off the mound; he will not go quietly. It could be that projectability is not just about brute strength, size or fastball velocity.
The best thing about the time at the PG showcase is that my son met kids from other parts of the country, and all of them seemed to share a love of baseball. They talked about snow in Colorado and Idaho versus Texas, high school and college football, and no doubt several other topics he failed to mention to me. He had a blast and I think the experience will help prepare him for the road to the next level.
The best thing about the time at the PG showcase is that my son met kids from other parts of the country, and all of them seemed to share a love of baseball. They talked about snow in Colorado and Idaho versus Texas, high school and college football, and no doubt several other topics he failed to mention to me. He had a blast and I think the experience will help prepare him for the road to the next level.
quote:Originally posted by BF_STAFF:
Baseball Factory was recently informed of the above thread on the High School Baseball Web Site. Since 1998, we have not had a consistent presence on this site, so it came as a surprise to our executive team.
Our mission as a company is to help youth and high school players develop their skills and ultimately find a place to play baseball in college. We have always supported and appreciated all businesses in the amateur baseball industry that work towards this common goal.
We have reviewed the posts and claims and will immediately look into this matter.
Welcome back to HSBBW, I look forward to your contributions to the community.
We are a diverse group of parents, players, former players, coaches (youth, high school, college, travel teams, and professional), service providers (showcases, tournaments, Bloggers, etc), and friends of the game, whose ultimate goal is to support and provide insight to the pastime we love.
In the community, we have individuals from Canada, Korea, Europe, and all parts of the US that contribute their background, opinions, and experiences to those who will chose to share their experiences, thoughts, and questions.
No one of consequence,
Welcome to HSBBW, good post, thanks for your insight to your son's experience!
I am sure they were comparing more than just the snow and football in the dugout...
Welcome to HSBBW, good post, thanks for your insight to your son's experience!
I am sure they were comparing more than just the snow and football in the dugout...
IMHO, PG participation can benefit just about everyone who attends. For the blue-chippers rated 9 and 10, it can give great added exposure for recruiting and the draft. For those in the middle (7's and 8's), it can help assess what level college program a player should target. For those rated lower than that, it can be a much-needed wake-up call that either spurs a player to improve or confirms that a player doesn't possess as much talent as previously thought.
My son was not a blue-chipper, but his solid rating confirmed that he had the talent to play college ball. Since he at that time played for a small, private school, the objective evaluation was very useful in helping us assess how he stacked up against other talented players.
The dad of a player we know was convinced that his son was major D-1 material. We weren't so sure about that and recommended that they send him to a PG showcase. His "7" rating brought his dad down to earth and helped the family re-evaluate some goals. This fall, the player is being recruited by D2's and some JUCO's.
Another player made All State, but for a private school classification. The parents were aiming high with recruiting, but to our untrained eyes, his talent was not all that tremendous and we recommended that the player get evaluated at a PG showcase. He got a "6" rating and is currently playing for the JV team of a D2 program.
I recall seeing one player who received a sub-6 rating. He ran an 8.35 60, threw 62 in the IF, measured 5'7", 110 lbs., and scored a 5.5. During a scrimmage he threw the ball so hard that an arm bone snapped. The crowd in the stands cringed as he writhed in pain on the ground. His listing on PG's website does not mention a college. Perhaps his rating helped him recognize that he should move on to other pursuits.
My son was not a blue-chipper, but his solid rating confirmed that he had the talent to play college ball. Since he at that time played for a small, private school, the objective evaluation was very useful in helping us assess how he stacked up against other talented players.
The dad of a player we know was convinced that his son was major D-1 material. We weren't so sure about that and recommended that they send him to a PG showcase. His "7" rating brought his dad down to earth and helped the family re-evaluate some goals. This fall, the player is being recruited by D2's and some JUCO's.
Another player made All State, but for a private school classification. The parents were aiming high with recruiting, but to our untrained eyes, his talent was not all that tremendous and we recommended that the player get evaluated at a PG showcase. He got a "6" rating and is currently playing for the JV team of a D2 program.
I recall seeing one player who received a sub-6 rating. He ran an 8.35 60, threw 62 in the IF, measured 5'7", 110 lbs., and scored a 5.5. During a scrimmage he threw the ball so hard that an arm bone snapped. The crowd in the stands cringed as he writhed in pain on the ground. His listing on PG's website does not mention a college. Perhaps his rating helped him recognize that he should move on to other pursuits.
A bit of good news....
Just for kicks, I googled the 5.5 player's name and, lo and behold, learned that he helped lead his high school team to the 3A state championship game in his state. Obviously, his arm recovered from that break. Good for him!
Just for kicks, I googled the 5.5 player's name and, lo and behold, learned that he helped lead his high school team to the 3A state championship game in his state. Obviously, his arm recovered from that break. Good for him!
Wow am I glad we never got caught up in the showcase thing and lists. My son may have never played D1 or college bal.
My advice is to pay attention to your game and not get caught up in rankings and all that stuff. Put some leg work in and there is a place to play. Market to all levels and let them tell you yes or no.
I don't care who the evaluator is they are far from accurate especially if you are not a super stud at the time of being recruited. BB is a developmental game and players that succeed rise to the challenge or they don't.
My advice is to pay attention to your game and not get caught up in rankings and all that stuff. Put some leg work in and there is a place to play. Market to all levels and let them tell you yes or no.
I don't care who the evaluator is they are far from accurate especially if you are not a super stud at the time of being recruited. BB is a developmental game and players that succeed rise to the challenge or they don't.
Just curious did Dustin Pedroia ever get rated? Evan Longoria? The ss for tampa bay , cant think of his name, went to delta JC, was told he was too small to play at the next level. what would those guys have done if they would of given up. Longoria didnt even have a JC looking at him he went to an avg. JC program. Doesnt matter what anyone thinks about you, play the game, and work , have heart and see what happens.I believe there are a ,ot of guys playing at the next level that were told by someone they werent good enough.
All players took a slightly different route to the top. There is no sure fire way or mandatory path to take. Lots of players have reached the top without ever attending a showcase, a camp, or even played on a travel type team. However, I think a large majority of the modern day players have done those things.
Bobble, I'm confused as to why you would think your son may never have played DI or college ball had he gone to showcases or been on a list? There are thousands of others who did go to showcases and were on a list and it didn't stop them from playing DI, college and/or professional baseball.
Bobble, I'm confused as to why you would think your son may never have played DI or college ball had he gone to showcases or been on a list? There are thousands of others who did go to showcases and were on a list and it didn't stop them from playing DI, college and/or professional baseball.
i don't know about getting 'caught-up' in showcases...but the several that i attended with my son were some of the most enjoyabe times we spent together.
PGstaff, I would like to send you a PM, but unable to do so. Would you be so kind as to PM me? Thank you.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:quote:Originally posted by jerseydad:
By the way, why did mike.black have to list his location as New Jersey? Kind of makes us look bad.
..............too easy.
Glass houses CPLZ, glass houses... how's gov Blagojevich doing these days?
PG he might not have made a list with his 80 mph fastball.
I know several guys personally who made these lists and I do think it helped them. I also think that too many worry about showcases and lists but it is a great business plan. You do have a good product.
I know several guys personally who made these lists and I do think it helped them. I also think that too many worry about showcases and lists but it is a great business plan. You do have a good product.
quote:Originally posted by jerseydad:quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:quote:Originally posted by jerseydad:
By the way, why did mike.black have to list his location as New Jersey? Kind of makes us look bad.
..............too easy.
Glass houses CPLZ, glass houses... how's gov Blagojevich doing these days?
Touchee....Gov Bigliarvich sends his regards.
Bobble,
Oh, I see what you mean. I don’t think anyone should ever put all their eggs in one basket. Going to a showcase or being on a list can help, but it is no guarantee for success. Likewise, being excluded from a list doesn’t mean failure. Scouts and college coaches know that there are no lists that are entirely accurate. Some more than others, but none being perfect. There is much more to it.
It’s been said here many times… The most important lists are those belonging to Major League Scouting Departments and College Coaching Staffs. Sometimes one list helps get a player on another list. Sometimes it doesn’t!
Oh, I see what you mean. I don’t think anyone should ever put all their eggs in one basket. Going to a showcase or being on a list can help, but it is no guarantee for success. Likewise, being excluded from a list doesn’t mean failure. Scouts and college coaches know that there are no lists that are entirely accurate. Some more than others, but none being perfect. There is much more to it.
It’s been said here many times… The most important lists are those belonging to Major League Scouting Departments and College Coaching Staffs. Sometimes one list helps get a player on another list. Sometimes it doesn’t!
quote:Originally posted by BF_STAFF:
Baseball Factory was recently informed of the above thread on the High School Baseball Web Site. Since 1998, we have not had a consistent presence on this site, so it came as a surprise to our executive team.
Our mission as a company is to help youth and high school players develop their skills and ultimately find a place to play baseball in college. We have always supported and appreciated all businesses in the amateur baseball industry that work towards this common goal.
We have reviewed the posts and claims and will immediately look into this matter.
How long do you guys figure this investigation is going to take? I wonder if it's akin to OJ investigating his wifes murder from the third tee box?
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:quote:Originally posted by BF_STAFF:
Baseball Factory was recently informed of the above thread on the High School Baseball Web Site. Since 1998, we have not had a consistent presence on this site, so it came as a surprise to our executive team.
Our mission as a company is to help youth and high school players develop their skills and ultimately find a place to play baseball in college. We have always supported and appreciated all businesses in the amateur baseball industry that work towards this common goal.
We have reviewed the posts and claims and will immediately look into this matter.
How long do you guys figure this investigation is going to take? I wonder if it's akin to OJ investigating his wifes murder from the third tee box?
Maybe they are taking que from one group on finding out who talked to the Blagojevich camp
Despite the questionable origins of this topic it has actually been very interesting and informative!
quote:Originally posted by BillBill:
Despite the questionable origins of this topic it has actually been very interesting and informative!
I would like to thank PG Staff for going out of his way to help me with a question that this post brought to my attention.
His response shows that they truly care.
He's not a famous relative and (sorry, Jerry) doesn't quite rank as high as Holden Caulfield's Katarina Witt kiss, but I did meet and shake the hands with PGStaff last year. He is a first class individual runnung a first class operation. I always enjoy his input on HSBBW. His openness and honesty, especially in this thread, reinforce the esteem I hold of Jerry Ford and PG.
Baseball Factory. This is an interesting and somewhat troubling develpoment with Mike Black. The unintended consequences of his actions have sullied their image further. Recently, I perceived an improvement in their All-American process and solicited current observations of BF's efforts. I was hopeful that they had turned around their infamous practices that linger in the posts on HSBBW. I look forward to a prompt, honest response from BF_STAFF, aka Jason Budden.
(Of course, this being the internet and all, there is no guarantee his first post is legitimate.)
Baseball Factory. This is an interesting and somewhat troubling develpoment with Mike Black. The unintended consequences of his actions have sullied their image further. Recently, I perceived an improvement in their All-American process and solicited current observations of BF's efforts. I was hopeful that they had turned around their infamous practices that linger in the posts on HSBBW. I look forward to a prompt, honest response from BF_STAFF, aka Jason Budden.
(Of course, this being the internet and all, there is no guarantee his first post is legitimate.)
I missed this subject earlier. Theres nothing surprising about the dishonesty of mike black or whatever his real name is. Too bad he left before someone could ask him about who the preseason allamericans are this year. I have nothing against under armour as they are a good company I doubt they know how their name is being used.
How do you get your son's colleges listed? I looked at a few guys and there wasn't a college mentioned. I know that some of these players are currently at D1's.
Enough of these could really screw with your stats and percentages.
Enough of these could really screw with your stats and percentages.
dooer,
we try but still can't get all the information we would like to have. if someone knows where a player has committed or just wants to send up to date info... email... staff@perfectgame.org
we try but still can't get all the information we would like to have. if someone knows where a player has committed or just wants to send up to date info... email... staff@perfectgame.org
Wow,
They must have convened a committee over at Baseball Factory to investigate the Mike Black scandal, as it has taken so much time to report back here. I hope they all get some time off for the holidays during their thorough investigation.
They must have convened a committee over at Baseball Factory to investigate the Mike Black scandal, as it has taken so much time to report back here. I hope they all get some time off for the holidays during their thorough investigation.
Resurrecting an old topic - two comments:
Son was graded an 8 and made the top prospect team at Natl. Underclass showcase. But in our experience it gained him no ground with coaches. One school he was really interested in had numerous players that had graded 7 or 7.5, but coach showed no interest. He ended up DI, but I never felt like the PG grade helped get him any attention. And, I did feel like the grade was fair. He didn't hit great at the showcase and that is his strength, so maybe on a better day he could have been an 8.5, but grade was pretty accurate. We live in an area that gets almost NO attention from scouts, so were hoping the PG thing would help, but like I said didn't seem to.
Second comment: Doesn't look like BF got back with us. I guess they nabbed "Mike" and thus were guilty??
Son was graded an 8 and made the top prospect team at Natl. Underclass showcase. But in our experience it gained him no ground with coaches. One school he was really interested in had numerous players that had graded 7 or 7.5, but coach showed no interest. He ended up DI, but I never felt like the PG grade helped get him any attention. And, I did feel like the grade was fair. He didn't hit great at the showcase and that is his strength, so maybe on a better day he could have been an 8.5, but grade was pretty accurate. We live in an area that gets almost NO attention from scouts, so were hoping the PG thing would help, but like I said didn't seem to.
Second comment: Doesn't look like BF got back with us. I guess they nabbed "Mike" and thus were guilty??
Now you guys are making me nervous. PG Ratings will be posted soon. 