Questions about early commits

I can't answer your questions, but I have been wondering about 2020s I have seen who have committed this summer (after the end of April, but before Sept. 1).  Is the only change effectively that coaches can't have recruiting conversations in person?  So the process prior to Sept. 1 of junior year is essentially the same, except it happens over the phone, instead of on the sidelines or on an unofficial visit (and the player has to place the call)?

Having a 2020 who recently (a few days ago) committed, I can say that it didn’t change anything for us. My son was fortunate enough to take several UV’s before the new rule was in place. 

I would think it would mostly affect those who haven’t taken UV’s before the new rules took effect. 

Chico Escuela posted:

I can't answer your questions, but I have been wondering about 2020s I have seen who have committed this summer (after the end of April, but before Sept. 1).  Is the only change effectively that coaches can't have recruiting conversations in person?  So the process prior to Sept. 1 of junior year is essentially the same, except it happens over the phone, instead of on the sidelines or on an unofficial visit (and the player has to place the call)?

Well, you can't take a visit now before Sept. 1 of junior year. I think it makes it a lot harder to commit without being able to visit. 

I can't see it making much difference at all.  Coaches will still get players to call them through their HS and travel coaches.  Unofficial visits will still happen in some form or another.  Parents will still feel panicked to take the first offer from a name school...and then tweet about it.  And much of this will still happen before September of Junior year.

Our 2nd son was recruited almost entirely by phone and email.  What will change about that from this new rule?

IMO, the rule (like most others) was written to not so much for the benefit of the players, but to not have to deal with kids dropping in all the time.  Every dad with his PG/PBR/etc... profile was inundating coaches with visits and calls.

"Dead periods" were created primarily for the same reasons - to give coaches a break.

The commitments will still happen for those that can...

hshuler posted:

Having a 2020 who recently (a few days ago) committed, I can say that it didn’t change anything for us. My son was fortunate enough to take several UV’s before the new rule was in place. 

I would think it would mostly affect those who haven’t taken UV’s before the new rules took effect. 

Congrats!

justbaseball posted:

I can't see it making much difference at all.  Coaches will still get players to call them through their HS and travel coaches.  Unofficial visits will still happen in some form or another.  Parents will still feel panicked to take the first offer from a name school...and then tweet about it.  And much of this will still happen before September of Junior year.

Our 2nd son was recruited almost entirely by phone and email.  What will change about that from this new rule?

IMO, the rule (like most others) was written to not so much for the benefit of the players, but to not have to deal with kids dropping in all the time.  Every dad with his PG/PBR/etc... profile was inundating coaches with visits and calls.

"Dead periods" were created primarily for the same reasons - to give coaches a break.

The commitments will still happen for those that can...

Wow.  I don't doubt what you wrote is true, but...wow.

Pedaldad posted:

justbaseball posted:

I can't see it making much difference at all.  Coaches will still get players to call them through their HS and travel coaches.  Unofficial visits will still happen in some form or another.  Parents will still feel panicked to take the first offer from a name school...and then tweet about it.  And much of this will still happen before September of Junior year.

Our 2nd son was recruited almost entirely by phone and email.  What will change about that from this new rule?

IMO, the rule (like most others) was written to not so much for the benefit of the players, but to not have to deal with kids dropping in all the time.  Every dad with his PG/PBR/etc... profile was inundating coaches with visits and calls.

"Dead periods" were created primarily for the same reasons - to give coaches a break.

The commitments will still happen for those that can...

Wow.  I don't doubt what you wrote is true, but...wow.

I'm with justbaseball mostly.  Won't make much difference.  And the rule change wasn't done for the "kids".  NCAA rules don't change how hard a kid throws, how much he spins it, how fast he runs or how hard he hits the ball.  The model has moved to PG / others collecting the data for them, then they go watch the ones that fit their program.  Still mostly in the same state / geo.

Why would the NCAA make the date September 1 when the kids are in school?  Why not Aug 1 or June 1?  Again, it has nothing to do with the kids.

I would replace the mostly "phone and email" with "established travel coach's recommendation" on above.  (even though that was justbaseballs experience.)

I still don't see how making the sharing of information more difficult benefits anyone with the decision on what college they attend.

If the NCAA really wanted to do anything to benefit the process, they would remove any restrictions on the date the LOI can be signed.  

Go44Dad is exactly right, these rule changes were just for show. If they had been serious about stopping early commits, they would have banned them outright or removed the time restrictions from the LOI. Instead, the NCAA in their infinite wisdom has done nothing but make it worse for the student athlete. The coaches are still heavily recruiting and making offers to the young kids, which takes the kid off the market. However, the kids can't even tour the faciliy or meet their future teammates before they make the biggest decision of their life so far. 

I know we are still very early in this rule change, but I don't see the early commits changing any time soon. It is possible that the parents (and the players) will realize the pitfalls of early commits without the benefit of even an unofficial visit, but as of today, that is not happening.  

It was bad timing for us.  My son has had a few unofficial visits but got more interest and offers once summer started.  The coaches have been good about not giving him a deadline but have also said they are still recruiting.  There is one school that is far from us and there is no way we get there this summer to visit (btw, they work around the no unofficial visit thing. They see the facilities they just don’t meet the coaches or get the guided tour).  The coach told us he should visit but also said there had been kids who commit and say they will visit later because they just want to play in a big conference. My son isn’t ready to do that and says he needs to feel comfortable.  There is some pressure to commit before spots disappear.

PedalDad,

You said it all in the first line of your OP....the NCAA is a self-serving organization.  Contrary to the commercials they run, it is not about the student athlete.   So, don't look for any help there.   The NCAA is as helpful as a hemorrhoid....always keep that in mind.

The concept of an early commitment is always going to fall on the shoulders of the recruit as well as its risk.   The process is set up that way, and it will continue to be unless there is a major change in college sports.   I agree with Go44Dad that if they really wanted to benefit the athlete they'd allow LOI to be signed anytime, but that isn't going to happen.   So, where does this leave everyone hoping to play scholarship ($$) baseball?  Same place, you just have to know ahead of time what you want (more parental and recruit research about the process), execute your recruiting plan earlier, and be willing to accept more risk if it comes to that because there is less time for a recruit to build a market (introduce additional suitors into the process) for himself.  But honestly, these recruiting changes aren't all that much different for most people willing to take an early commitment risk to play college baseball.   P5 coaches know they could have a line outside their door of kids willing to roll the dice on an early commitment.

As always, JMO.

The new rules probably won't  change anything for the elite programs, but will slow down a bit for the mid, to lower D1s.  

I think the rule proposed and accepted by the committee  was to stop the early recruitment of freshman and sophmores, even younger.  As Justbaseball mentioned, a lot of panic goes into the process, not all decisions are well thought as to the consequences of recruiting early.

Making September 1 the start date and not June 1, July 1 is because coaches are not in their offices at that time. Justbaseball is correct, coaches are on the road, come home and have meetings and work to do, don't always appreciate those drop ins, especially here in Florida where lots of summer tournaments take place. 

Pedaldad posted:

justbaseball posted:

I can't see it making much difference at all.  Coaches will still get players to call them through their HS and travel coaches.  Unofficial visits will still happen in some form or another.  Parents will still feel panicked to take the first offer from a name school...and then tweet about it.  And much of this will still happen before September of Junior year.

Our 2nd son was recruited almost entirely by phone and email.  What will change about that from this new rule?

IMO, the rule (like most others) was written to not so much for the benefit of the players, but to not have to deal with kids dropping in all the time.  Every dad with his PG/PBR/etc... profile was inundating coaches with visits and calls.

"Dead periods" were created primarily for the same reasons - to give coaches a break.

The commitments will still happen for those that can...

Wow.  I don't doubt what you wrote is true, but...wow.

TPM posted:

The new rules probably won't  change anything for the elite programs, but will slow down a bit for the mid, to lower D1s.  

I think the rule proposed and accepted by the committee  was to stop the early recruitment of freshman and sophmores, even younger.  As Justbaseball mentioned, a lot of panic goes into the process, not all decisions are well thought as to the consequences of recruiting early.

Making September 1 the start date and not June 1, July 1 is because coaches are not in their offices at that time. Justbaseball is correct, coaches are on the road, come home and have meetings and work to do, don't always appreciate those drop ins, especially here in Florida where lots of summer tournaments take place. 

 

 

Especially with the elite players, I also think it might slow down some who can now take official visits as juniors. Before the change, with official visits only coming after school starts in a kid's senior year, official visits were almost always reserved as a sort of "gift" to committed players and their families. Now, they become a true recruiting tool. I do wonder, though if this change pushes baseball even further toward the recruiting practices of football and baseball, where a player commits early, but still takes a lot of official visits, with many changing commitments right before the signing date. I think the date change provides schools with a huge incentive to shy away from the current culture of laying off of recruiting kids who have committed because now, they have a lot of extra time to get them on an official visit an woo them away.

I don't foresee a lot of official visits for juniors coming.

I do think people have tapped the brakes this summer, not sure exactly what the landscape is now.  Whether that lasts, we'll have to see.

Pedaldad posted:

 

Are there players and parents from 2020 and beyond that are excited about these new rules and intent on waiting to commit?

If committing such young players are not violating the letter of the new rules, they are at least violating the intent.  Should the NCAA step up the rules change to coincide with softball, and say no contact of any kind until September 1 of an athletes junior year?

I have a peripheral baseball relationship with some 2021s and 2022s. They are not happy with the rule change. They are planning to commit before junior year. If they do that, it will be without a sit-down with the coach on campus. Less information to make the decision. Maybe this will end up causing them to wait, but I doubt it.

In the context of these recent changes, I think softball probably did the right thing by not allowing any direct contact before junior year. It's not perfect, but I think it takes some of the pressure off of the young kids.

Does anyone know if this rule change prohibits current college players from showing young prospects around the school's baseball facilities? Many of these young prospects know college players through their coaches, travel programs, or high schools.

As far as I know, players cannot show recruits around unless on an official or unofficial visit. 

Recruits can attend camps. Some programs do not run their camps on the field but use practice fields. Players can go on campus visits thru the school. There are online videos of player facilities.

It really doesnt matter what the player wants, but more what the coaches are looking for their program.

TPM posted:

As far as I know, players cannot show recruits around unless on an official or unofficial visit. 

Recruits can attend camps. Some programs do not run their camps on the field but use practice fields. Players can go on campus visits thru the school. There are online videos of player facilities.

It really doesnt matter what the player wants, but more what the coaches are looking for their program.

My son was recently told that if he wanted to make a visit he could schedule it  through the school and then send a text when he was coming to the athletic facilities and they would leave and leave it unlocked for him to go through 

Midlo Dad posted:

I don't foresee a lot of official visits for juniors coming.

I do think people have tapped the brakes this summer, not sure exactly what the landscape is now.  Whether that lasts, we'll have to see.

I have to agree with you since a coach is only allowed 25 OVs per grad year and players only allowed 5. They will grant juniors an unofficial visit and their committs official as seniors before they sign. That hasnt changed.

I do know that top tier prospects will committ and for the rest of the 2020s, mid tiers dont have to rush and some still recruiting 2019s.

JMO

baseballhs posted:

TPM posted:

As far as I know, players cannot show recruits around unless on an official or unofficial visit. 

Recruits can attend camps. Some programs do not run their camps on the field but use practice fields. Players can go on campus visits thru the school. There are online videos of player facilities.

It really doesnt matter what the player wants, but more what the coaches are looking for their program.

My son was recently told that if he wanted to make a visit he could schedule it  through the school and then send a text when he was coming to the athletic facilities and they would leave and leave it unlocked for him to go through 

I dont think that I would tell anyone which program that is. 

I won’t but I can tell you it’s not uncommon.