Maybe a bit of overreaction here folks. And before you blame it all on today's culture, let's recall that Ty Cobb fought with fans and Leo Durocher spit on umpires.
"And don't talk back to me." Funny how no one's brought that up...
I agree with Coach May about the NBA and NFL. With the Moss , Farve comparison it was a much bigger picture than just one action, it is the whole person. To say a player like Farve is no better then Than Randy Moss A littel off base. If the comparison is not a good one how adout players like Emet Smith, Reggie White or Troy Akman. It is not that any of them are perfect it's how they handel a mistake and owen up to what they do. Not just say sorry but I might do it again. Kind of like Randy Johnson just did.
I don't know about you guys but when I turn on a football game I want to see football. I want to see guys making hard hits and great blocks, guys making catches, runners running hard etc. I don't want to see guys in each others face trash talking, guys acting like they have done something never done before when they score. All the antics and no sportsmanship at all. Hey you can play hard as hell and respect your opponent and play with class. I guess I am just outdated and out of touch I dont know. But I agree with TR I just choose to not watch it. Pure genuine emotion in the heat of battle like two teamates hugging oneanother hey thats great. But this staged BS makes me sick. You want to see me get hot let one of my players show up another team with some disrespectfull behavior. The quickest way for a player to find himself under the dog house. My kids better not ever have a team show up and want it more than them. My kids better not ever disrespect the team that is giving them a chance to compete in the game we love. Its about respect and respecting the game.
Coach May your not out dated,thats the way it should be. I like to watch football not allstar wrestling. nothing worse than a player making a good play and have a big celebration when there team is 21 points behind.
A poster recently said
Well yes it really does matter to me and I would hope it would matter to every fan of the game. It matters because I enjoy watching a clean game, true sportsmanship, great teamwork and class individuals. I want kids to be able to watch sports for all the right reasons. We do not want a few classless, clueless, weak individuals hijacking our great games into being nothing but their personal stage to create attention for themselves. Why should we abandon the games we love because of a few?
Society has been relatively silent as morals in many areas of society decay and we are all paying the price. Personal responsibility has been replaced by excuses. Most everyone is afraid to say what needs to be said for fear of being called a bigot or racist.
Rap music glorifies sick behavior such as women abuse and cop killing. This abhorrent attitude that once was confined to isolated areas has permeated into modern youth culture. The result is the dumbing down of standards of decency. Behavior which just a few years ago that our grand parents would label sinful is now woven into prime time television. And now that culture is invading sports.
I believe the vast majority of paying fans feel exactly like I do. We need to let the players know that while their classless behavior may be tolerated in their home or even in their neighborhood, sports is our neighborhood and we don’t put up with it here.
Sports should reflect the best of society, not the worst. It should serve as an example of what a team made up of individuals coming from varied backgrounds and ethnicity can do. It should serve as an example to our youth what can be accomplished with hard work, high goals and perseverance. It should also serve as an example of competition without subrogating the rules of fair play is the only way to play. And sports should exemplify sportsmanship, the unwritten rules, expectations and traditions of the game. Players cannot be allowed to disrespect the game or their opponents.
So does it really matter to you? If it does, we need to take a stand. We need to take a stand in our sports, in our homes, in our neighborhood and in our country. We need to take a stand and let the weakest among us know that we demand good sportsmanship and good citizenship and their behavior will be tolerated no more.
quote:
Does it really matter what Moss or TO or any other player in any sport does with their antics ?? It doesn't to me-- I can choose not to watch or not to attend--my choice--free country
Well yes it really does matter to me and I would hope it would matter to every fan of the game. It matters because I enjoy watching a clean game, true sportsmanship, great teamwork and class individuals. I want kids to be able to watch sports for all the right reasons. We do not want a few classless, clueless, weak individuals hijacking our great games into being nothing but their personal stage to create attention for themselves. Why should we abandon the games we love because of a few?
Society has been relatively silent as morals in many areas of society decay and we are all paying the price. Personal responsibility has been replaced by excuses. Most everyone is afraid to say what needs to be said for fear of being called a bigot or racist.
Rap music glorifies sick behavior such as women abuse and cop killing. This abhorrent attitude that once was confined to isolated areas has permeated into modern youth culture. The result is the dumbing down of standards of decency. Behavior which just a few years ago that our grand parents would label sinful is now woven into prime time television. And now that culture is invading sports.
I believe the vast majority of paying fans feel exactly like I do. We need to let the players know that while their classless behavior may be tolerated in their home or even in their neighborhood, sports is our neighborhood and we don’t put up with it here.
Sports should reflect the best of society, not the worst. It should serve as an example of what a team made up of individuals coming from varied backgrounds and ethnicity can do. It should serve as an example to our youth what can be accomplished with hard work, high goals and perseverance. It should also serve as an example of competition without subrogating the rules of fair play is the only way to play. And sports should exemplify sportsmanship, the unwritten rules, expectations and traditions of the game. Players cannot be allowed to disrespect the game or their opponents.
So does it really matter to you? If it does, we need to take a stand. We need to take a stand in our sports, in our homes, in our neighborhood and in our country. We need to take a stand and let the weakest among us know that we demand good sportsmanship and good citizenship and their behavior will be tolerated no more.
SBK
You forget one thing--this is a free country-- having spent many years in the Music Business, my best man wrote most of Bobby Vinton's hits ( talk about lily white and pure ), I have no use for RAP, I don't even call it music--but I respect their right to produce it and sell it-- the bottom line is that we are a free country-- I will put up with some of the things I do not like or approve of so that I can maintain my freedom to choose--Like it say--TURN IT OFF--- DON'T BUY IT !!!!!!
You forget one thing--this is a free country-- having spent many years in the Music Business, my best man wrote most of Bobby Vinton's hits ( talk about lily white and pure ), I have no use for RAP, I don't even call it music--but I respect their right to produce it and sell it-- the bottom line is that we are a free country-- I will put up with some of the things I do not like or approve of so that I can maintain my freedom to choose--Like it say--TURN IT OFF--- DON'T BUY IT !!!!!!
I believe there is a major difference in behavior NFL/NBA to MLB on and off the field. (C'mon, if your examples of poor behavior of baseball players are from guys that are, well, dead... 
)
The fights between baseball players and fans have been the result of baiting, perhaps mutual. Baseball doesn't have the on-field street-preening-egoism displayed consistently in the NBA/NFL. And remember to take whatever number of offensive incidents in the context of 2500 baseball games per season.
Economic background probably has a lot to do with it: take somebody without money and throw buckets of it at him and there's a good chance he'll misbehave (see musicians, pop groups, actors, lottery winners for additional examples).
But to me, the big difference between the behavior in the NFL/NBA and the MLB comes down to the pathway to the pros: it's "easier" to become a pro basketball/football player. All sports require talent, work, and dedication. Football and basketball, much moreso than baseball, also require the genetics of certain body types, a gift of nature to the players. But in football and basketball, you shoot straight to the money, fame, and acclaim right out of hs or college --- there is no period of apprenticeship.
Then there's the nature of the sports: five on the court, any one of them (read: egos) is 20% of the game and the glory. Football? C'mon, it's the sport of imperialist aggression.
Baseball's nature? Chess with sweat.
Baseball players pay their dues through their young adult years in the minors, always knowing that an injury or an even better young stud might stand in their way to The Show. Add that to the longer history and tradition of the professional game and you get respect.
)The fights between baseball players and fans have been the result of baiting, perhaps mutual. Baseball doesn't have the on-field street-preening-egoism displayed consistently in the NBA/NFL. And remember to take whatever number of offensive incidents in the context of 2500 baseball games per season.
Economic background probably has a lot to do with it: take somebody without money and throw buckets of it at him and there's a good chance he'll misbehave (see musicians, pop groups, actors, lottery winners for additional examples).
But to me, the big difference between the behavior in the NFL/NBA and the MLB comes down to the pathway to the pros: it's "easier" to become a pro basketball/football player. All sports require talent, work, and dedication. Football and basketball, much moreso than baseball, also require the genetics of certain body types, a gift of nature to the players. But in football and basketball, you shoot straight to the money, fame, and acclaim right out of hs or college --- there is no period of apprenticeship.
Then there's the nature of the sports: five on the court, any one of them (read: egos) is 20% of the game and the glory. Football? C'mon, it's the sport of imperialist aggression.
Baseball's nature? Chess with sweat.
Baseball players pay their dues through their young adult years in the minors, always knowing that an injury or an even better young stud might stand in their way to The Show. Add that to the longer history and tradition of the professional game and you get respect.
Orlando great point.
TR
Sorry to get you bent out of shape but that is your pejorative with this being a free country and all.
I believe with closer scrutiny, neither you nor anyone else would find any place in my few paragraphs where I abridged anyone’s freedom or advocated such.
While you suggest turning it off, I would hope that most sports fans would not be so easily chased away and could find additional ways to let sports organizations and players know that we demand better for our sport.
If us fans join together in making our feelings known, we might be able to force them to change their behavior instead of us having to change ours. I plan on being vocal regarding sportsmanship and class in sports and hope others do the same.
So TR, instead of just turning it “off’ just yet, join me in watching the Eagles and Vikings game this weekend and join me in continuing to be vocal in demanding better behavior in sports, music and life.
And if after we’ve made a conscientious effort and our demands are not heeded, I’ll join you in turning it “off”.
Sorry to get you bent out of shape but that is your pejorative with this being a free country and all.
I believe with closer scrutiny, neither you nor anyone else would find any place in my few paragraphs where I abridged anyone’s freedom or advocated such.
While you suggest turning it off, I would hope that most sports fans would not be so easily chased away and could find additional ways to let sports organizations and players know that we demand better for our sport.
If us fans join together in making our feelings known, we might be able to force them to change their behavior instead of us having to change ours. I plan on being vocal regarding sportsmanship and class in sports and hope others do the same.
So TR, instead of just turning it “off’ just yet, join me in watching the Eagles and Vikings game this weekend and join me in continuing to be vocal in demanding better behavior in sports, music and life.
And if after we’ve made a conscientious effort and our demands are not heeded, I’ll join you in turning it “off”.
Orlando Great Post. Also add in the fact that coaches preach respecting the game and the unwritten rules of the game starting at a young age and continueing on up. I think it is a source of pride of real baseball people and players. We all take pride in knowing that no one is bigger than the game. And above all else the game is the reason we are here not the other way around.
SBK
Who is bent out of shape ????-- I am not
I dont know about the Eagle and Vikings but you can count on me watching the Jets and Patriots--teams without "showboats"-- That is also turning it off in a fashion
Who is bent out of shape ????-- I am not
I dont know about the Eagle and Vikings but you can count on me watching the Jets and Patriots--teams without "showboats"-- That is also turning it off in a fashion
Orlando,
I have to totally disagree with you on your point that Baseball players pay their does.
First of all, A professional baseball player is anyone who is getting paid to play ball, be it instructional ball, AAA, AA, A.
They are all Pros.
With that said:
• How many High School kids do you know that go directly into the NFL?
I’ll tell you, absolutely NONE. The NFL has a rule that states Players have to be out of High school for 3 years.
• Now for the NBA, you can say maybe 10 or so make it each year.
• Now for Baseball, in the first round alone. In the first 30 selection in 2004, there were 13 HS players picked.
So tell me about paying does?
Just because a lot of them may never make the show, doesn’t mean their not professional ball players.
Then, if you want to talk about the money these kids are making its amazing.
Don’t get me wrong, I prefer Baseball, but I refuse to believe it’s above reproach. It has its short comings just like the NBA, and NFL.
One last thing, you can’t condone baseball players fighting because they were egged on. That’s a cop out. (They’re supposed to be above all that)
What about what happened recently when Ice was thrown on that basketball player. He was egged on, so it must not have been his fault that he went up into the stands and fought with the fans?
They shouldn’t have suspended him for the rest of the year, Right?
Randall
I have to totally disagree with you on your point that Baseball players pay their does.
First of all, A professional baseball player is anyone who is getting paid to play ball, be it instructional ball, AAA, AA, A.
They are all Pros.
With that said:
• How many High School kids do you know that go directly into the NFL?
I’ll tell you, absolutely NONE. The NFL has a rule that states Players have to be out of High school for 3 years.
• Now for the NBA, you can say maybe 10 or so make it each year.
• Now for Baseball, in the first round alone. In the first 30 selection in 2004, there were 13 HS players picked.
So tell me about paying does?
Just because a lot of them may never make the show, doesn’t mean their not professional ball players.
Then, if you want to talk about the money these kids are making its amazing.
Don’t get me wrong, I prefer Baseball, but I refuse to believe it’s above reproach. It has its short comings just like the NBA, and NFL.
One last thing, you can’t condone baseball players fighting because they were egged on. That’s a cop out. (They’re supposed to be above all that)
What about what happened recently when Ice was thrown on that basketball player. He was egged on, so it must not have been his fault that he went up into the stands and fought with the fans?
They shouldn’t have suspended him for the rest of the year, Right?
Randall
Randall,
Yes minor league baseball is pro but the only comparison is that they both get pay checks, with one having many more zeros at the end. Minor league baseball is not a retreat, it probably has more pressure to perform day in and day out than the majors with an absolutely zero "me" factor. A completely different set of rules and attitudes.
If you want to compare "professional" by your definition take the total number of players (which includes minors) of all sports and divide by the number of incidents per year and then factor in the number of games played per year. I would conclude that the baseball incident numbers dwarf the the other sports. No sport is perfect but then again nothing is.
Yes minor league baseball is pro but the only comparison is that they both get pay checks, with one having many more zeros at the end. Minor league baseball is not a retreat, it probably has more pressure to perform day in and day out than the majors with an absolutely zero "me" factor. A completely different set of rules and attitudes.
If you want to compare "professional" by your definition take the total number of players (which includes minors) of all sports and divide by the number of incidents per year and then factor in the number of games played per year. I would conclude that the baseball incident numbers dwarf the the other sports. No sport is perfect but then again nothing is.
Randall, perhaps I should have been clearer, but as there are no minor leagues leading to the NBA or NFL, I assumed everyone would recognize I was comparing the major league players only. Further, I didn't get into hairsplitting between basketball and football draft eligibility....it would have made for some fairly complicated and prepositional-phrase-heavy sentences .
If 10 hs kids (in one year alone, was it?) went straight into The Highest Available Level Of Professional Basketball, complete with signing bonus and negotiated salary, then that was 10 more that did so in The Highest Available Level Of Baseball. There have been a few who scooted through the minors (Ozzie Smith for a personal hero, Zach Grienke as a recent example. Of course, Zach would have been one out of about 1600 guys drafted that year. So there's a .06% change that a ballplayer could do what those 10 guys did...without factoring in all the years when a meteoric rise by a hs player doesn't happen) Or, conversely, you could be Wade Boggs and not make it for about 8 years, or the thousands of Joe Bloggs who wash out without ever getting that Cup Of Coffee.
And every single college player drafted for the NFL or NBA made it to the Highest Possible etc before their baseball-drafted counterparts did.
Of course first rounders in baseball get some serious signing money, certainly the next few rounds get very impressive money as well. Sort of like all the NBA/NFL players get. (And I guess you’re just ignoring all the baseball players who sign for between the cost of a used car and nothing, ‘cause that doesn’t qualify as “amazing money”?).
The baseball players then go on to $850-$1,000 per month (plus meal money!) during the season for their rookie or Single A Professional jobs and start the pressure of trying to compete, advance, and stay healthy to make it to the Highest Available, etc while riding buses and sharing apartments with a few other guys; the NBA/NFL crowd join the elite salary strata immediately, and have their luggage carried to their suites. See, I’d label one of those two scenarios as “dues paying”, but maybe that’s just me.
How did I ‘condone’ baseball’s fights? I called them offensive, allowed as baseball didn’t have the consistent (note word used) on-field egotism, and suggested the MLB plays a whole lotta games without incident. Do you think there were 50 MLB games last season with fights, actionable fan interaction or something on-field you wouldn’t want your kids to see? I think it’s high, but that would be 4% of the Major League games (and, should we include minor leagues, I feel safe in saying that percentage would plummet). Do we have reason to believe the NBA/NFL figures for offensive incidents or behavior are that low?
.If 10 hs kids (in one year alone, was it?) went straight into The Highest Available Level Of Professional Basketball, complete with signing bonus and negotiated salary, then that was 10 more that did so in The Highest Available Level Of Baseball. There have been a few who scooted through the minors (Ozzie Smith for a personal hero, Zach Grienke as a recent example. Of course, Zach would have been one out of about 1600 guys drafted that year. So there's a .06% change that a ballplayer could do what those 10 guys did...without factoring in all the years when a meteoric rise by a hs player doesn't happen) Or, conversely, you could be Wade Boggs and not make it for about 8 years, or the thousands of Joe Bloggs who wash out without ever getting that Cup Of Coffee.
And every single college player drafted for the NFL or NBA made it to the Highest Possible etc before their baseball-drafted counterparts did.
Of course first rounders in baseball get some serious signing money, certainly the next few rounds get very impressive money as well. Sort of like all the NBA/NFL players get. (And I guess you’re just ignoring all the baseball players who sign for between the cost of a used car and nothing, ‘cause that doesn’t qualify as “amazing money”?).
The baseball players then go on to $850-$1,000 per month (plus meal money!) during the season for their rookie or Single A Professional jobs and start the pressure of trying to compete, advance, and stay healthy to make it to the Highest Available, etc while riding buses and sharing apartments with a few other guys; the NBA/NFL crowd join the elite salary strata immediately, and have their luggage carried to their suites. See, I’d label one of those two scenarios as “dues paying”, but maybe that’s just me.
How did I ‘condone’ baseball’s fights? I called them offensive, allowed as baseball didn’t have the consistent (note word used) on-field egotism, and suggested the MLB plays a whole lotta games without incident. Do you think there were 50 MLB games last season with fights, actionable fan interaction or something on-field you wouldn’t want your kids to see? I think it’s high, but that would be 4% of the Major League games (and, should we include minor leagues, I feel safe in saying that percentage would plummet). Do we have reason to believe the NBA/NFL figures for offensive incidents or behavior are that low?
Orlando
I got the jest of what you were trying to say the first time and I think it's got a lot of validity.
I got the jest of what you were trying to say the first time and I think it's got a lot of validity.
Look I agree with you guys, there is a lot of problems in professional sports in General.
But before we can complain about how dirty somebody else’s house is, we better be sure our house is spotless, and right now our house is looking pretty dirty!
Randall
But before we can complain about how dirty somebody else’s house is, we better be sure our house is spotless, and right now our house is looking pretty dirty!
Randall