Re-Touching Base

You've lost me with the whole R foot L foot thing, but I have always believed that you must re-touch the bases in reverse order when you fail to tag-up. Is there something I'm missing, or maybe the review confirm that he missed 3rd to begin with therefore negating the need to re-touch 3rd base???

Maybe they ruled that he never actually left the base?

You got me stymied on this one.....I knew you had to retouch (any) base but didn't know you had to touch/retouch with the same foot regardless of in bounds or out of bounds?   I thought you just needed to retouch the base then proceed back to the previous base or bases as the case may be without passing/crossing your teammate.

Hopefully an umpire will jump in here and explain.

I saw this . . . he touched 3rd and his momentum carried him past the bag, but he never turned towards home (not sure it matters).  When he turned 180 and headed back to second, he did not touch 3rd as he went back over the bag.  My thoughts on why he wasn't called out. 
1.  There wasn't enough visual evidence to say that he did not retouch the bag as he was going back to 2nd.  (Unlikely from what I saw).
2.  The rule states the runner must make an attempt at the next base (Purely speculation on my part, however the runner did not break for home)
3.  There was vagueness in the rule, and the umps didn't want to make an interpretation in the gray area.  (Most likely, IMO).

I put the left foot right foot thing because that was the difference in the play.  You don't have to touch with same foot but you do have to retouch.  Dumb part of the review thing is there is no explanation of anyone.  They should have to at least tell the coach what they saw or did not see.  LeftyDadP9 is right.   It was close but the other team's announcers said that they did not think he touched it again.  I'm just not sure they got all the right angles.  It was hard to see on the first view but when they showed it from another view it was pretty clear he did not touch it when he went back.  I've never heard that he had to make an attempt at the next bag just that if you go past it you have retrace your steps by touching it when returning.

Certainly one of those had to be there's and I would love to be a fly on the wall for the discussion ;-)   Was the appeal that the runner didn't retouch 3B?  When you say sent for review - you mean video replay?

I recall some training that there's an angle one must attain to be considered headed to the next base (in this case towards home). I assume the 3B coach was theatrically telling ;-) his player to go back to 2nd - so did the runner "turn right" and head back (think overrun 1B)?

I agree with LeftyDadP9 - it's a gray area for sure!  What astounds me though is a catch could be made and the runner returned all the way to 2B without the ball reaching there first *in a college game* - I could envision that for little league ;-)

Guess I needed to use the right search terms (college baseball retouch base angle)... From "2021 and 2022 Baseball Major Rules Changes" (and good luck with everyone interpreting this one!):

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.c...ajorRulesChanges.pdf

8.6.a.3 Base beyond

Establish that when a runner has gone beyond the base and must retouch that base before returning to the previous base(s) in order. Specifically, “A runner is considered to have passed a base if the player has both feet on the ground beyond the back edge of the base or beyond the edge of the base in the direction in which the player is advancing. The direction the runner is advancing determines the edges of the base when defining when a runner has passed a base.”

Rationale: To provide clarification as to what part of the base the runner must have passed to be required to retouch the base before going back to the previous base safely.

He did not put his left foot on the ground before he returned so he did not have to retouch.

To answer the question on not being able to throw him out it was a shot to the very right field corner.  The RF was running full speed into the corner.  By the time he got recovered, the play was close at second but he got back.

Pitching fan has it right per the description of events and the ruling posted just above his post,

I will be honest I have never heard that.  I wonder if it is a new rule or a new interpretation of an old rule.  I thought once you went past it you had to retouch it but you learn something new every season.

My thoughts are 1. I hate replay, and 2. I have no idea if this is the rule or not, but if he didn't make a turn I would say he doesn't need to touch it on the way back

@PitchingFan posted:

I will be honest I have never heard that.  I wonder if it is a new rule or a new interpretation of an old rule.  I thought once you went past it you had to retouch it but you learn something new every season.

Thanks for digging up the rule.

@JohnF posted:

Guess I needed to use the right search terms (college baseball retouch base angle)... From "2021 and 2022 Baseball Major Rules Changes" (and good luck with everyone interpreting this one!):

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.c...ajorRulesChanges.pdf

8.6.a.3 Base beyond

Establish that when a runner has gone beyond the base and must retouch that base before returning to the previous base(s) in order. Specifically, “A runner is considered to have passed a base if the player has both feet on the ground beyond the back edge of the base or beyond the edge of the base in the direction in which the player is advancing. The direction the runner is advancing determines the edges of the base when defining when a runner has passed a base.”

Rationale: To provide clarification as to what part of the base the runner must have passed to be required to retouch the base before going back to the previous base safely.

Interesting . . . for 3rd base, this means the runner must make a turn towards home to be considered beyond the base.  If he overruns the base towards the 3rd base dugout, he's not considered "beyond the edge of the base in the direction in which the player is advancing."

Thanks for digging up the rule.

I asked an umpire last night for a clarification and he said you can step toward the dugout with two feet on the ground and have to retouch.  The ruling just says that you have to touch the ground with two feet beyond the edge of the bag.  Going into second that is toward left field or toward third, going into third that is either toward the dugout or toward home but the key is both feet must touch the ground beyond the edge of the bag in the same direction.  It was actually made because of something similar to this weekend where you have a player adjust and pivot on the one foot on the ground and not the other and not have to retouch.

@LeftyDadP9 posted:

Interesting . . . for 3rd base, this means the runner must make a turn towards home to be considered beyond the base.  If he overruns the base towards the 3rd base dugout, he's not considered "beyond the edge of the base in the direction in which the player is advancing."

Thanks for digging up the rule.

The way I read it, if he over runs the bag toward the 3rd base dugout (both feet on the ground beyond the back edge of the bag) he would have been determined to be beyond the bag.  Running direction determines which edge is the back of the bag.  In this case, the back edge of 3rd base is the 3rd base dugout side off the bag.