Recruited Walk On

Floridafan,
The bottom line is that ALL players, scholarship or walk on, have to produce for playing time. If the player feels confidant that he can contribute at a particular program, it doesn't really matter whether he has scholarship money or not, because once you get on the 35 man roster (spring) you are part of the team and the playing field is up for grabs.

The only issue I see is that if a player does not sign an NLI his first year is not guaranteed. He has more chance of being cut before the roster is set. Another strong consideration, is it better to be a big fish in the little pond or the little fish in the bigger pond.

A recruited and invited walk on is a notch above a true walk on. The coach has seen him play and had some interest.
Assuming there are a few spots up for grabs it is possible you might make the spring roster. As TPM says in has dissadvantages and you may never see any BB money.
My son was offered a recruited walk on at his #1 school. We were told the money was spent and possibly if money was freed up in the spring or the next year he might get some BB money. We decined that offer and moved on.
I just don't see with all the programs out there , why a guy would walk on. There may be an academic or a preferential reason but I can't see it. There are lots of avenues that you can take. We even considered taking a year off.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Floridafan,
The bottom line is that ALL players, scholarship or walk on, have to produce for playing time.

Thats 100% right on, and then when you get the PT, you have to continuously produce to retain it.

Amidst all the hoopla, pub, touting, and accolades a player may have received, eventually, consistent solid field performances are all that matter.

Many on this site gave great advice in choosing a college, and it basically was this:

Choose the school initially with no regards to the baseball program. Once you have that list shortened down, then compare the baseball opportunities and financial fits.

As far as what universities may give a player their best shot at pro baseball, if that is in your boys set of goals, just review draft results. They come from everywhere. It is the player they seek, not the uniform.

One of our summer players, excellent student(4.5/4.0) wants to be a physician, but he is also a very nice athlete, serviceable catcher, and a pitcher with near 90mph velo and decent secondary stuff. He is a recruited(preferred) walk on at a very well known private D1. No baseball money whatsoever.

He chose his school, his dream school, and it is a bonus to him to be on that squad. Does he have the talent to be on many D1 rosters? YES

Quote from his college coach:

"came to our fall camp in 2006 and we really liked his prototypical pitchers body and his arm movement. We felt that he had a lot of upside and he has proven to be a very pleasant surprise this fall. He is throwing his fastball consistently from 85-88 miles-per-hour and has topped out at 90. He throws a tight slider and has some deceptive quickness and movement.

He is a very competitive and confident pitcher who has really bought into our idea of willing outs and challenging hitters. We feel he was a great pickup to round out this strong group of new pitchers."

We are all very proud of this kid

quote:

preferred walk on

What is a preferred walk on ?

I have never heard that term applied to BB.
To me there are 2 types of walk ons. One the coach has watched for awhile but has no money for and wants to give hime a chance to make the roster and the guy the coach has not really watch if at all and he shows up to tryout. Both have a small chance to make a spot on the fall sqaud and possibly the spring roster..
Either case if you are a walk on and make the fall squad you pay for the semester minus accademic money you get.
Unless there are special reasons I just can't see why someone would do that. There are too many opportunities out there.

Thats football.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Thats football.

whatever.......so much for the context

I googled the term and I found it referred to football.
Some people debated the term between preferred and recruited but they were all not sure.

Floridafan asked that question because his son has the opportunity to get 100% tuition from the state.

At some schools that could be 50% of costs. This school is a top program in the country. In states where this money is available, these players are essentially "free" to the coach, may not mean they have less talent. With the new rules, you are going to see it more and more. The choice could be going out of state for scholarship (baseball money) or staying in state for scholarship (from the state).

The only thing one has to find out is if they have the same opportunities (study hall, tutors for example) as NLI players do.

JMO.

I believe what TPM says is true. However, a recruited walk on is easy for the coach to cut in the fall. Maybe a kid just doesn't have a good fall session (but has the ability/tools to be a contributor on the team) and gets cut. Now, with the new rules he is in a real bind. He could be a Jr. before he gets another shot at playing ball at another school.

Over recruiting apparently was a problem in the past, who is to say this will not continue with the 7 walk on spots. Will coaches recruit 15 kids to fill the 7 walk on spots?

It seems risky to me to be a recruited walk on, but I could be wrong.

You can sign an NLI and still get cut from the team in the fall. You can be an invited walk on and make the roster. They will keep the players that can help them the most. If a kid is getting money but can not get the job done vs a kid that is an invited walk on but can play guess who will make the team. Most coaches are not going to invite a kid to walk on unless they feel he can contribute. Especially with the new rules. Either way there are not definites regardless if you are getting money or not. Some schools do not have open tryouts. Some school do. Some programs know exactly how many players they are dealing with when the fall starts. Including walk ons that are invited because thats the only walk ons that are there.

quote:

You can sign an NLI and still get cut from the team in the fall.

guess it could happen, just doubt it ever would. if player is guaranteed scholarship ALL yr and had a rough 25 days of fall practice, any good coach would trust his recruiting eval & be patient. few freshman (NLI) are expected to step in during fall, "tear it up", and beat out guys 3-4 yrs older. and despite the experience of a few here MOST programs do NOT use fall as a tryout-cuts.
that is a very important piece of homework to do on your school list and/or questions to coaches recruiting you because ya don't want to be surprised by the few schools that do if you end up at one

ALL DI schools must post open tryouts by rule .. many last a few hours and are a mere formality with no intent of obtaining additional players

Thank you everyone for your help. I will let you know what we decide to do after my Son makes his decision.

Cutting an NLI player under the new rules will cost the college a roster spot.

Cutting an NLI get does some unlikely.

I guess, in the end you need to do your research about the program.

Do they over recruit and cut? or if they tell you that you are a recruited walk on then your on the spring roster.

quote:

by cpa: seen the first happen at my son's college this fall

my above reference was to an nli ncaa DI freshmen ..

DIII and (your) JUCO usually make it pretty clear you're entering into a tryout situation and the face & size of the squad will change alot

Great point, BobbleheadDoll!

Not if they transfer before the start of the season. Calling in an NLI and telling him he is not going to be a part of the roster in the spring , tell him he needs to transfer before the spring so he does not loose the year of eligibility is happening right now. What do you think is happening at these schools that had 40 plus guys on the roster with a new class coming in this year and needing to be done to 35 by the 08 season? A kid like floridafan's son may be more valuable to the team than a kid that is currently on the roster with money that has proven he can not help the team. A coach is not going to keep a kid on money if he can not help him and release a kid with no money that can. People who think they are safe because they sign an NLI are wrong. What is a kid going to do that loves to play baseball. Stay at the school on 25% baseball money even though he has been cut. Or transfer before the new transfer rule comes into effect? What do you think? I can tell you what these college coaches are banking on.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Cutting an NLI player under the new rules will cost the college a roster spot.

While they may be cutting a portion of their scholarship allocation I don't think they would lose a roster spot.

Unless my interpretation is off, if the 35th player is between a NLI and a non scholarship player, a coach can cut a NLI guy and keep a non scholarship player and stay at a 35 man roster. The coach just can’t re-spend the money for the cut NLI player because he has committed the funds to the NLI guy for one year.

If a coach opts for 28 max NLI kids, and cuts one, he cannot replace one of those 28 from what I read for the season.

quote:

Originally posted by jerseydad:

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Cutting an NLI player under the new rules will cost the college a roster spot.

While they may be cutting a portion of their scholarship allocation I don't think they would lose a roster spot.

Unless my interpretation is off, if the 35th player is between a NLI and a non scholarship player, a coach can cut a NLI guy and keep a non scholarship player and stay at a 35 man roster. The coach just can’t re-spend the money for the cut NLI player because he has committed the funds to the NLI guy for one year.

I think JD may be correct, you cannot replace a counter with a new counter (in other words not give out anymore scholarship money for that year). Has nothing to do with roster spot.

Remember, roster does NOT have to be set until the day before first official game.

TPM, don't want to rehash the roster/counter debate again, but,

one has to assume that an NLI signed prior to the arrival of the student on campus constitutes the classification "counter".

Regardless of a Fall roster or Spring roster, that player is one of 27 allowable counters for the entire season, regardless of anything else, so it is effectively a roster spot........agree??

After this season, coach has 21 counters coming back with no reason to change their status. He recruits 6 players who sign NLI's, for 27.

If he cuts one, then he plays with 26 plus 8 non-counters, after the transition year of 30

I think OS has a pretty good grasp - he may have been a compliance guy in another life

quote:

don't want to rehash the roster/counter debate again, but ...

lol - who's on 1rst? .. what's on 2nd .. I don"t know is on 3rd




if ya can lead a horse to water & he doesn't drink .. is he a counter?

if a woodchuck could chuck wood .. would it count?

Coach May, the situation you are describing is for this year. Can get cut and go to another program.

We know there are no guarantees NLI or not. But it seems to me if you are a recruited walk on, you are a lot easier to cut than otherwise.

BTW, When will coaches announce their spring roster?
Is there a typical time?

If it is in the spring. Imagine if you are a recruited walk on, find out your not on the roster.
If you want to continue playing ball, transfer, sit out one year. And give it another try as a Jr.

Still seems risky to me, unless coach guarantees a roster spot. It least you have a season to work hard and prove yourself.

I asked this question earlier; Do you think coaches will over recruit for the 7 walk on spots?

According to the NCAA advisor she said you lose 1 roster spot if you cut a NLI player under the new rules. You are a counter when you show up in the fall. You cannot replace that roster spot with another player who will recieve BB money. The Logic is that the BB money is for 1 full year regardless if the NLI guy plays or is cur.

The max NLI guys is 27 and a max of 30 counters.
Theoretically a school could offer 4 X 11.7 if each guy got 25%. These max numbers limit that as does the 35 man roster. You cut an NLI guy you can only carry 34 man roster.

quote:

Unless my interpretation is off, if the 35th player is between a NLI and a non scholarship player, a coach can cut a NLI guy and keep a non scholarship player and stay at a 35 man roster.

The NLI guy is deemed to be on the spring roster the miniut he arrives at the school. Cut him and you lose a roster spot.

quote:

by TD: BTW, When will coaches announce their spring roster? Is there a typical time?

GT began practice Sept 4 and posted their roster about then -
always been under 35, always the same in the spring (except injuries & a rare mid yr transfer)

2008 GT Yellowjackets

of note is a sr C who was a student manager/bullpen catcher as a fresh & soph
(pen catcher is a non-roster student staff volunteer position, not a team member) ...
he made the TEAM in fall open tryouts as a jr, and is again on the TEAM roster as a sr, likely as a "counter"

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
According to the NCAA advisor she said you lose 1 roster spot if you cut a NLI player under the new rules. You are a counter when you show up in the fall. You cannot replace that roster spot with another player who will recieve BB money. The Logic is that the BB money is for 1 full year regardless if the NLI guy plays or is cur.

In actuality, the ideal situation is that 35 show up in fall and 35 play in spring. That is how, IMO, good coaches who work hard at recruiting get it done.

If you arrive next fall wiht more than that, you know the coach is looking to replace.

IMO, who is going to be the most at risk, is the 3 year player without a redshirt who has not contributed much. He is going to have to be the one to fight hardest for his spot.

Big problem I see, is adjusting to the loss created by draft. I can see coaches telling current players if you get drafted, see ya. I can see coaches giving their blessings to those drafted high out of HS. JMO.

TPM I agree. The ideal is to recruit and sign exactly the number you will roster.
Arizona State has 40 on their fall squad and have sheduled 29 fall games leading to a WS. Obviously they will have to be down to 35 next year like everyone else.

BTW - Coach has said that he is "guaranteed" a roster spot, he was the 2nd walk-on invited, not sure how many more will be. Of course he still needs to produce to earn playing time, but my sense is that he is at least being offered the chance to prove himself and earn his position during the spring season.

08 is an interesting time for recruits and in the past it seems that most here on this site discoureged walking on without a $$$ commitment from coach. However with the new NCAA requirments walking on to a program that provides a good fit ( especially position players)may not be as bad a decission as it was prior to this season, what's your opinions in todays climate.

sorry about spelling

There is a difference between bring a recruited walk on and a walk on.

Yes, definetly changes have made the recruited walk on a stronger possibility, especially in a state where your tuition is paid for by state funds.

Floridafan introduces a new wrinkle with that old guarantee.
We have debated this many times and it is hadr to imagine a coach giving a guarantee especially to a walk on.
A recruited walk on has a better position than a walk on. However the coach didn't offer BB money or in few cases had no money left. A recruited walk on was recruited and the not made an offer for BB money. I have a hard time seeing that as a benefit. Yes a few show well and are rostered in thye spring but once they get you with no money offered you will have a hard time getting a decent BB scholarship. Instate students have an advantage from a cost point of view but bsaeball skills as the coach sees it will determine who plays. Also the number of guys at your position will be a major factor even if you are a good ball player.

Was just at a scrimmage of a DI, they passed out a small program and fall roster had 38 kids.

This program (CWS contender) rostered 33 last year, including resdhirt.

I am told repeatedly that "the best 9 play". If my Son believes that he can earn the spot through skill and hard work I might just get out of his way. He has another offer with significant money from an expensive private D-2 that would like him to be their starting 3rd baseman as a freshman.
The out of pocket costs may be higher here even with a 75% offer. But I know he will get plenty of playing time. This is the dilema.

quote:

I am told repeatedly that "the best 9 play".

I think a coach would be foolish to have any other philosophy. The fact he may have offered other kids money does not necessarily mean the other kids will turn out to be better players imho. No one has a crystal ball. The very best pro scouts and college scouts are not correct 100% of the time.

The whole issue is risk imho. The D2 offer may indeed provide the most playing time but there are no guarantees.

He may become the best ballplayer he can be however by competing at the higher level. That is the most difficult thing in college - learning how to beat someone out who is perhaps older, stronger, and presently better than you are.

Floridafan,
Everyone must remember, there are options. If you attend a D1 and get cut, you can move to a D2 or D3. If things don't work out at the D2, he can try to transfer to a D1. Without sitting out. Whatever teh decision, the player must always know his grades will become an important consideration if he has to transfer.

Considering what I know, I think if it were my son, I would let him go where he feels more comfortable to attend school, play baseball and get his degree.

JMO.

I agree with TPM your son will have options at either the D2 or D1 program.