Here is our opinion about some changes regarding college recruiting. I would expect some disagreement, but hope something is gained.
Here is the link
Recruiting - Are Times Changing
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I agree fully ... I was discussing the same thing with OPP in the chat room the other night.
There isn't a right/wrong answer. Each person needs to follow what they feel is right for them. As far as the colleges are concerned, they are exposing themselves to a bit more risk (player injury, not progressing as expected), but it's the price you pay in order to stay competitive with the top talent.
Is it good? Personally, I don't like it. So many things change so quickly in College Baseball. Coaches turn over, assistants leave for better opportunities ... when you finally get to college, you may meet a staff of strangers. MAKE SURE THAT THE COLLEGE IS RIGHT FOR YOU, NOT JUST THE COACHES if you are going to commit early.
There isn't a right/wrong answer. Each person needs to follow what they feel is right for them. As far as the colleges are concerned, they are exposing themselves to a bit more risk (player injury, not progressing as expected), but it's the price you pay in order to stay competitive with the top talent.
Is it good? Personally, I don't like it. So many things change so quickly in College Baseball. Coaches turn over, assistants leave for better opportunities ... when you finally get to college, you may meet a staff of strangers. MAKE SURE THAT THE COLLEGE IS RIGHT FOR YOU, NOT JUST THE COACHES if you are going to commit early.
Times are changing. As HHH says more reason to do your homework earlier to make sure the fit is right. With March calls to recruits now, the flirtation starts earlier than ever.
The times have changed
PGStaff asked in the article:
I think the answer depends upon the constancy of the performances from that point forward. If the player performs consistantly well, then additional opportunities develop and vica versa.
quote:Could it be that the sophomore year is getting much more important? Could it be the sooner a player is recognized the more opportunities that become available?
I think the answer depends upon the constancy of the performances from that point forward. If the player performs consistantly well, then additional opportunities develop and vica versa.
PG,
I do not think anyone disputes that recruiting times are changing (or have changed). More and more players are asked to committ earlier and earlier, because the business of college baseball has changed, is more competititive, better programs, wins mean more $$ in their program. I am sorry, I would never advise my son to committ before his senior year, as HHH points out too many variables. Coaching changing, injuries, etc.
What remains constant is the fact that the top tier basball programs will recuit only what they need, if the average was 10 for top 50 that is 500. There are a whole lot more than 500 HS players wanting to play at top tier programs.
The talented and gifted freshman and sophomores will be talented and gifted as juniors, seniors. Some players are very late bloomers, emerging on as seniors when they were never noticed before (despite what mom and dad did). There are too many making players believe that they will miss the boat.
A parent hears that their neighbors son started showcasing their son early and guilt and frustration sets in. They read and hear about all the things that MUST be done very early to get an early scholarship.
As many of us parents have stated for years, homework must be done, decisions made, a plan to follow, set goals, yes early on.Showcases, college camps, tournaments, summer travel, you don't have to do it all. Be realistic. Know what your son is capable of doing and let the goals be HIS and things will work out fine. Know what you as a parent are capable too as well, financially. It doesn't have to break the bank.
Interesting how we talk about baseball recruiting, playing for powerhouse teams, showcases, tournaments, but very little is said about the importance of doing well in school along with that. Baseball scholarships are hard to come by, many schools will give out academic scholarships when short on the baseball. These schools are difficult, on and off the field.
JMO.
I do not think anyone disputes that recruiting times are changing (or have changed). More and more players are asked to committ earlier and earlier, because the business of college baseball has changed, is more competititive, better programs, wins mean more $$ in their program. I am sorry, I would never advise my son to committ before his senior year, as HHH points out too many variables. Coaching changing, injuries, etc.
What remains constant is the fact that the top tier basball programs will recuit only what they need, if the average was 10 for top 50 that is 500. There are a whole lot more than 500 HS players wanting to play at top tier programs.
The talented and gifted freshman and sophomores will be talented and gifted as juniors, seniors. Some players are very late bloomers, emerging on as seniors when they were never noticed before (despite what mom and dad did). There are too many making players believe that they will miss the boat.
A parent hears that their neighbors son started showcasing their son early and guilt and frustration sets in. They read and hear about all the things that MUST be done very early to get an early scholarship.
As many of us parents have stated for years, homework must be done, decisions made, a plan to follow, set goals, yes early on.Showcases, college camps, tournaments, summer travel, you don't have to do it all. Be realistic. Know what your son is capable of doing and let the goals be HIS and things will work out fine. Know what you as a parent are capable too as well, financially. It doesn't have to break the bank.
Interesting how we talk about baseball recruiting, playing for powerhouse teams, showcases, tournaments, but very little is said about the importance of doing well in school along with that. Baseball scholarships are hard to come by, many schools will give out academic scholarships when short on the baseball. These schools are difficult, on and off the field.
JMO.
Nice post!
I am going to pull a quasi-hijack here and ask for apologies in advance. In another thread today about hating MLB business a reference was made to the Dylan tune Times are a changin.
Then, there is the early signing thread about the juco player signing early.
Then to top it all off, there is an 07 thread started asking if it is ok to sign early.
Interesting vibes on the hsbbweb today
I am going to pull a quasi-hijack here and ask for apologies in advance. In another thread today about hating MLB business a reference was made to the Dylan tune Times are a changin.
Then, there is the early signing thread about the juco player signing early.
Then to top it all off, there is an 07 thread started asking if it is ok to sign early.
Interesting vibes on the hsbbweb today
The trend toward younger commitments is understandable. Look at the exposure kids are getting these days in everything from Little League World Series to the increased number of kids playing "competitive" ball. High school recruits in football and basketball are attaining celebrity status and getting all types of media exposure. However, as the parent of a "late bloomer", I don't necessarily like the trend. Maybe the "can't miss' players, that will be recruited by the top 40-50 programs, can be appropriately identified earlier in their career. But there are also a lot players who make great strides at later stages. As has been said in other posts, there are increased risks on both sides.
I believe the NCAA rules will stop overzealous coaches from getting involved too early. They are basically there to protect the kids and make sure they get there education.
I absolutely agree that the trend discussed in the article is happening. Personally, I wish it wasn't so. The pros and cons as I see it:
Why commit nearly a year early?
* If you're a stud, give your college of choice something to build around in their recruiting class
* You want to get it over with
Why not commit nearly a year early?
* Coach may leave (don't say it couldn't happen, it most definitely can)
* Your position coach may leave
* School may be put on probation (not likely, but it HAS happened)
* You may learn more about other schools or even the school you thought was your dream
* You may go watch one of their games and decide you don't like how they use players at your position (a very real issue for pitchers)
* You may change your mind about the school for whatever reason
* The school may change their mind about you for whatever reason
* You're a year younger and a year less wise...and at this young age, that year can be pretty big
Any way I look at this, advantage goes to the school, not the athlete. Lets see what starts happening when a "stud" gets injured in his junior year after committing...with limited scholarships, will the school back out? I'm with TPM...I wouldn't want my son committing before early in his senior year.
Why commit nearly a year early?
* If you're a stud, give your college of choice something to build around in their recruiting class
* You want to get it over with
Why not commit nearly a year early?
* Coach may leave (don't say it couldn't happen, it most definitely can)
* Your position coach may leave
* School may be put on probation (not likely, but it HAS happened)
* You may learn more about other schools or even the school you thought was your dream
* You may go watch one of their games and decide you don't like how they use players at your position (a very real issue for pitchers)
* You may change your mind about the school for whatever reason
* The school may change their mind about you for whatever reason
* You're a year younger and a year less wise...and at this young age, that year can be pretty big
Any way I look at this, advantage goes to the school, not the athlete. Lets see what starts happening when a "stud" gets injured in his junior year after committing...with limited scholarships, will the school back out? I'm with TPM...I wouldn't want my son committing before early in his senior year.
PG,
I think HHH - (as well as others) - make some good points.
Clearly the trend is toward earlier identification. I dont see much of an issue with that from the colleges perspective.
I do think - as HHH points out - that it will get very interesting (challenging) for these young men to commit (verbally or otherwise) at earlier ages.
Turnover in college baseball coaching is something the "younger" recruit wil have to think long and hard about.
A new set of coaches - or assistant coaches - can add alot of risk to the recruit's original decision. IMO.
I think HHH - (as well as others) - make some good points.
Clearly the trend is toward earlier identification. I dont see much of an issue with that from the colleges perspective.
I do think - as HHH points out - that it will get very interesting (challenging) for these young men to commit (verbally or otherwise) at earlier ages.
Turnover in college baseball coaching is something the "younger" recruit wil have to think long and hard about.
A new set of coaches - or assistant coaches - can add alot of risk to the recruit's original decision. IMO.
Is this mainly a Top D1 phenomenon, or have you seen it spreading tenaciously throughout all levels? What percentage of kids who'll play some level of college ball are being asked to commit early?
It seems to me that (big guess) 90-95% of kids who'll play college ball will commit in the traditional timeframe, while the very Top Tier guys (the ones at the biggest and more exclusive showcases) are the only ones who'll be asked to make an early commitment.
Does this seem fairly accurate, or am I way off? As a dad of an '08, this is a very good topic!!
It seems to me that (big guess) 90-95% of kids who'll play college ball will commit in the traditional timeframe, while the very Top Tier guys (the ones at the biggest and more exclusive showcases) are the only ones who'll be asked to make an early commitment.
Does this seem fairly accurate, or am I way off? As a dad of an '08, this is a very good topic!!
Great article PG!! But I would like to know the answers to Krakatoa's question, as it applies to my '07.
I would assume that it really is only for that top 10% of kids, as the competition for them is fierce.
I figure my son will decide what college he is going to by the table scraps left for him
I would assume that it really is only for that top 10% of kids, as the competition for them is fierce.
I figure my son will decide what college he is going to by the table scraps left for him
.
As usuall I am way behind the curve and missing something...
Isn't there a difference between a...
"Unofficial Verbal to a Legal Verbal"
"A Legal Verbal"
and a
"Definate sign?"
Wouldn't the "unofficial Verbal to a Legal Verbal" be worth just about as much as the paper it isn't written on?
.
As usuall I am way behind the curve and missing something...
Isn't there a difference between a...
"Unofficial Verbal to a Legal Verbal"
"A Legal Verbal"
and a
"Definate sign?"
Wouldn't the "unofficial Verbal to a Legal Verbal" be worth just about as much as the paper it isn't written on?
.
I sure do understand the fact there are late bloomers. My son was the best example I know. The truth, though, is the top 40 college programs are not exactly looking for late bloomers (actually never did). Lets just say, they're more interested in those who have already blossomed. This is an area professional baseball differs from highest level college baseball.
This is why we see so many "late bloomers" coming out of Juco programs and sometimes the non traditional powerhouse programs rather than the top 40 type programs.
Here is all I know for sure. There are many colleges (mostly top 40 types) who are extremely interested in who the top kids are before they start their Junior year. One can just ask those colleges you're most familiar. This was not true a very short time ago.
We can say, it's not very important for those players to be identified until they are between their junior and senior years. But, wouldn't that be doing the opposite of what many of these top 40 college recruiters are looking for?
The article is not meant to pertain to the average high school player. The top college programs aren't interested in the average player. It was more about the very best talent and the best approach to take. And yes, there is time for the very best to show there value between junior and senior years. It still works that way in many cases. However, there's still a big benefit in being identified early.
For example (true story) I won't use real names but there is a pitcher we saw as a 9th grader and as a sophomore. He was one of the best LHP in the country at that time. Before he started his junior year, he was injured. No showcases, no tournaments, no pitching during his Junior year and the summer before his senior year. He signed early with a Pac10 school for the (REAL) full ride despite not pitching his entire junior year. There have been several others with similiar stories. They were seen before their junior year and that's all it took. That kind of talent sticks out like a sore thumb.
I understand there will be different viewpoints, but please understand (not bragging) we are very close to this stuff. There is no "one" clear cut answer to the recruiting puzzle. The only consistent thing is a player must be identified by the right people before the good stuff happens.
Waiting can be the right thing for some and it can be the worse thing for others. That's the point - nobody can honestly say which way is the best way. And when we think we have it figured out... they go and change the system.
This is why we see so many "late bloomers" coming out of Juco programs and sometimes the non traditional powerhouse programs rather than the top 40 type programs.
Here is all I know for sure. There are many colleges (mostly top 40 types) who are extremely interested in who the top kids are before they start their Junior year. One can just ask those colleges you're most familiar. This was not true a very short time ago.
We can say, it's not very important for those players to be identified until they are between their junior and senior years. But, wouldn't that be doing the opposite of what many of these top 40 college recruiters are looking for?
The article is not meant to pertain to the average high school player. The top college programs aren't interested in the average player. It was more about the very best talent and the best approach to take. And yes, there is time for the very best to show there value between junior and senior years. It still works that way in many cases. However, there's still a big benefit in being identified early.
For example (true story) I won't use real names but there is a pitcher we saw as a 9th grader and as a sophomore. He was one of the best LHP in the country at that time. Before he started his junior year, he was injured. No showcases, no tournaments, no pitching during his Junior year and the summer before his senior year. He signed early with a Pac10 school for the (REAL) full ride despite not pitching his entire junior year. There have been several others with similiar stories. They were seen before their junior year and that's all it took. That kind of talent sticks out like a sore thumb.
I understand there will be different viewpoints, but please understand (not bragging) we are very close to this stuff. There is no "one" clear cut answer to the recruiting puzzle. The only consistent thing is a player must be identified by the right people before the good stuff happens.
Waiting can be the right thing for some and it can be the worse thing for others. That's the point - nobody can honestly say which way is the best way. And when we think we have it figured out... they go and change the system.
quote:Originally posted by Krakatoa:
...while the very Top Tier guys (the ones at the biggest and more exclusive showcases) are the only ones who'll be asked to make an early commitment.
And these are the guys for which it is hard for me to understand why commit so early? Those guys will be able to pick any college later...so again, why so early? Later they'll be able to see the rest of their recruiting class for their desired schools which may sway their decision...so why so early?
I just don't get it from the athlete's perspective?
quote:Is this mainly a Top D1 phenomenon, or have you seen it spreading tenaciously throughout all levels? What percentage of kids who'll play some level of college ball are being asked to commit early?
It seems to me that (big guess) 90-95% of kids who'll play college ball will commit in the traditional timeframe, while the very Top Tier guys (the ones at the biggest and more exclusive showcases) are the only ones who'll be asked to make an early commitment.
Does this seem fairly accurate, or am I way off? As a dad of an '08, this is a very good topic!!
Krakatoa,
It is on the increase everywhere, but most often at the top programs.
I'm not sure of the overall %s of early signings, but among the most recognized high school prospects it is extremely high. A high 5 of these kids are signing with top 40 type programs.
I think you are fairly close to right on, except at the DI level (all DI) I would say (just a guess) that the overall % at a given DI school would be much higher in favor of the early signings.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
For example (true story) I won't use real names but there is a pitcher we saw as a 9th grader and as a sophomore. He was one of the best LHP in the country at that time. Before he started his junior year, he was injured. No showcases, no tournaments, no pitching during his Junior year and the summer before his senior year. He signed early with a Pac10 school for the (REAL) full ride despite not pitching his entire junior year. There have been several others with similiar stories. They were seen before their junior year and that's all it took. That kind of talent sticks out like a sore thumb.
I believe I know that young man well...or at least one very similar...lives down the street from me. And I think this is different than the other thrust of the story. He was able to do that because he was seen early, true...but he was not asked for a commitment a year early. That is where I have the problem...the ultra-early commitments...no problem with his situation for the way it ended up...i.e. getting a Pac10 ride at the begining of his senior year based on performance his freshman and sophomore year and his demonstrated recovery from the surgery.
justbaseball,
It was a only very short time ago that I would have agreed completely with what you have said. I still do in a way, it's just that we see things changing fast.
It was a only very short time ago that I would have agreed completely with what you have said. I still do in a way, it's just that we see things changing fast.
justbaseball,
HaHaHa, I think I know who you're thinking of and it's not the same kid. Yet, he is another example. Same arm, different PAC10 school and this one did commit ultra-early.
HaHaHa, I think I know who you're thinking of and it's not the same kid. Yet, he is another example. Same arm, different PAC10 school and this one did commit ultra-early.
And a lot depends on the region of the country
There are different strokes for different folks.
There are different strokes for different folks.
TR,
To be honest, what we are talking about in that article pertains mostly to the top college programs in the country. In that respect, most of those programs are located in the southern and the western part of the country.
However, in respect to the individual player, it makes absolutely no difference what part of the country he comes from. Being identified early is better than never being identified.
There have been many players who were injured and didn't play or pitch for a year who still end up with scholarships based on being seen earlier.
To be honest, what we are talking about in that article pertains mostly to the top college programs in the country. In that respect, most of those programs are located in the southern and the western part of the country.
However, in respect to the individual player, it makes absolutely no difference what part of the country he comes from. Being identified early is better than never being identified.
There have been many players who were injured and didn't play or pitch for a year who still end up with scholarships based on being seen earlier.
PG - By the way, I meant to say "good article." I know you aren't being a proponent of either way, just putting the information out there. And I DO know this is happening a lot more too.
Good for you (again!) for keeping everyone well-informed. I still don't get it, but it is invaluable to let us all know about it.
Good for you (again!) for keeping everyone well-informed. I still don't get it, but it is invaluable to let us all know about it.
.
Second that...good article PG...Also, JB thought your listing of Why's/Why Not's held some good observations...
.
Second that...good article PG...Also, JB thought your listing of Why's/Why Not's held some good observations...
.
justbaseball, Thanks and you're right. We can't do anything about the things that happen, but we can tell people it is happening. It's not a matter of agree or disagree.
PGStaff, a very good post.
At first my son would appear to be a poster child for changing times in college recruiting. But not so. He played on and was the offensive leader on one of the best 18u teams in the nation (Dulin’s Dodgers) since he was 15 years old. Playing for Dulins he was exposed to many top college programs in the country at that early age. He was “mistakenly” recruited at age 15 to catch and pitch at the University of Alabama. It's important to understand he didn’t play for Dulins Dodgers JUST for the opportunity to play college or professional baseball; he did it because that is where he fit. His talent put him on that team just as his talent put him on the roster at Auburn University and earned him a spot in the professional ranks. Showcases are just a piece of the recruiting puzzle. I am a promoter of the showcase circuit and feel that Perfect Game is a leader in that area. I knew they were the leader in showcases when my son was in the “exposure stages” but he didn’t go to Perfect Game. He didn’t need to.
Are things changing? Sure they are! How and why are they changing? The answer is PARENTS! I believe parents are becoming more educated in the ways of how to get recruited and are prepared to pay money to ensure it happens for their son. They have gotten proactive because of information that has emerged from the internet with the HSBBW being a leader in that area. I have to disagree with PGStaff on this just a little. I don’t think this is driven by the college coaches demanding players be exposed earlier but these coaches won’t complain because they reap benefits from this phenomenon. Surprisingly I don’t think its being driven by the showcase promoters either but again they are reaping the benefits of early exposure. I think it’s being driven by the PARENTS of good to average players jockeying for position with the college coaches. Parents are spending money thinking they are creating an opportunity that only showcasing can provide and that is not necessarily true. We have to understand that roster spots (opportunities) are a fixed number. Understand too that showcases do not create additional opportunities nor do they create talented players. Showcases are just one of the venues that blend the two together.
I agree with TPMom when she says:
I agree with everything TPM says except “Be realistic”. Each parent wants their son to play at the next level so how can you criticize a parent for making those financial sacrifices even if it is wasteful? It's your son and your money...I say go for it. If I thought for one minute that not attending a showcase at a young age would eliminate a talented player from playing at the next level I would be concerned and would be the first to say so.
Fungo
At first my son would appear to be a poster child for changing times in college recruiting. But not so. He played on and was the offensive leader on one of the best 18u teams in the nation (Dulin’s Dodgers) since he was 15 years old. Playing for Dulins he was exposed to many top college programs in the country at that early age. He was “mistakenly” recruited at age 15 to catch and pitch at the University of Alabama. It's important to understand he didn’t play for Dulins Dodgers JUST for the opportunity to play college or professional baseball; he did it because that is where he fit. His talent put him on that team just as his talent put him on the roster at Auburn University and earned him a spot in the professional ranks. Showcases are just a piece of the recruiting puzzle. I am a promoter of the showcase circuit and feel that Perfect Game is a leader in that area. I knew they were the leader in showcases when my son was in the “exposure stages” but he didn’t go to Perfect Game. He didn’t need to.
Are things changing? Sure they are! How and why are they changing? The answer is PARENTS! I believe parents are becoming more educated in the ways of how to get recruited and are prepared to pay money to ensure it happens for their son. They have gotten proactive because of information that has emerged from the internet with the HSBBW being a leader in that area. I have to disagree with PGStaff on this just a little. I don’t think this is driven by the college coaches demanding players be exposed earlier but these coaches won’t complain because they reap benefits from this phenomenon. Surprisingly I don’t think its being driven by the showcase promoters either but again they are reaping the benefits of early exposure. I think it’s being driven by the PARENTS of good to average players jockeying for position with the college coaches. Parents are spending money thinking they are creating an opportunity that only showcasing can provide and that is not necessarily true. We have to understand that roster spots (opportunities) are a fixed number. Understand too that showcases do not create additional opportunities nor do they create talented players. Showcases are just one of the venues that blend the two together.
I agree with TPMom when she says:
quote:A parent hears that their neighbors son started showcasing their son early and guilt and frustration sets in. They read and hear about all the things that MUST be done very early to get an early scholarship.
As many of us parents have stated for years, homework must be done, decisions made, a plan to follow, set goals, yes early on. Showcases, college camps, tournaments, summer travel, you don't have to do it all. Be realistic.
I agree with everything TPM says except “Be realistic”. Each parent wants their son to play at the next level so how can you criticize a parent for making those financial sacrifices even if it is wasteful? It's your son and your money...I say go for it. If I thought for one minute that not attending a showcase at a young age would eliminate a talented player from playing at the next level I would be concerned and would be the first to say so.
Fungo
First off great article
The time are indeed changing.Im currently a freshman in High school and pretty much playing varsity ball.Along with four other freshman at the same level as myself.Having a good sophmore year is more important as mentioned.
You also have to look at times.Players are more serious.They do more weights,more drills,play more games,and some are getting big with products(creatine,etc)The times are indeed changing
The time are indeed changing.Im currently a freshman in High school and pretty much playing varsity ball.Along with four other freshman at the same level as myself.Having a good sophmore year is more important as mentioned.
You also have to look at times.Players are more serious.They do more weights,more drills,play more games,and some are getting big with products(creatine,etc)The times are indeed changing
Fungo,
That is an interesting concept. I try hard not to get caught up in what we do. Also, try hard to keep up with what's going on.
I've determined there are no exact right answers to many questions. For sure there are several different ways to be successful in baseball. There is never just one universal answer to many of these questions.
I can tell you I believe there is a definite "need" for early identification, but that's an all together different subject and it only deals with those who are extremely talented.
I never thought about what is the driving force behind some of this stuff. You say it's the parents and I can't argue with that. If the parents say no... everyone else is forced to make the adjustments.
I would say that Josh appears to be the poster child for early identification. He was seen by people early on and probably would have ended up in a top program had he missed his junior year. I saw him play, his talent was very obvious, it's easy to spot that even for us stupid people.
I sure do appreciate your thoughts. I hope everyone scrutinizes what was said in that article. I don't care if we are proven right or wrong, I just thought it was appropriate to discuss it on the HSBBW. Maybe between the actual article and the ensuing discussions here, many people will learn something including myself. That's what this is all about.
That is an interesting concept. I try hard not to get caught up in what we do. Also, try hard to keep up with what's going on.
I've determined there are no exact right answers to many questions. For sure there are several different ways to be successful in baseball. There is never just one universal answer to many of these questions.
I can tell you I believe there is a definite "need" for early identification, but that's an all together different subject and it only deals with those who are extremely talented.
I never thought about what is the driving force behind some of this stuff. You say it's the parents and I can't argue with that. If the parents say no... everyone else is forced to make the adjustments.
I would say that Josh appears to be the poster child for early identification. He was seen by people early on and probably would have ended up in a top program had he missed his junior year. I saw him play, his talent was very obvious, it's easy to spot that even for us stupid people.
I sure do appreciate your thoughts. I hope everyone scrutinizes what was said in that article. I don't care if we are proven right or wrong, I just thought it was appropriate to discuss it on the HSBBW. Maybe between the actual article and the ensuing discussions here, many people will learn something including myself. That's what this is all about.
I think the column is dead on save one point: I don't think the anecdotal information folks learn here is outdated, because it is immediate.
But clearly, and this is the case by far in most sports, the SOPHOMORE year is the most important. It is the first very serious separation of the high school kids who have it and those who don't.
More and more, college sports not named football make their recruiting lists based on 10th grade talent. Contact as a junior and declare the fall of their senior year.
It absolutely hurts the late bloomer. But with slashed recruiting budgets, the intensity is all about identifying the kids early so they're not wasting time in the evaluation process.
I wrote something on a hockey message board a short time ago, following a bunch of verbal commitments (I know, I know) made in the fall by HIGH SCHOOL JUNIORS: A high school sophomore should not have to move away from home to get on the fast track to a hockey scholarship. But it's the norm in that sport anymore.
If you're not at a certain level in a certain league by the time you turn 17, your're not going to play Division I hockey.
Some might think it self-serving for the showcase people to point this out. But it's true. If you're not on the big baseball radar screen by the summer before your JUNIOR year of high school, you're probably not going to play at a powerhouse D-I school.
If your name isn't out there before the summer after your JUNIOR year, you're going to be fighting uphill in the quest for a scholarship.
But clearly, and this is the case by far in most sports, the SOPHOMORE year is the most important. It is the first very serious separation of the high school kids who have it and those who don't.
More and more, college sports not named football make their recruiting lists based on 10th grade talent. Contact as a junior and declare the fall of their senior year.
It absolutely hurts the late bloomer. But with slashed recruiting budgets, the intensity is all about identifying the kids early so they're not wasting time in the evaluation process.
I wrote something on a hockey message board a short time ago, following a bunch of verbal commitments (I know, I know) made in the fall by HIGH SCHOOL JUNIORS: A high school sophomore should not have to move away from home to get on the fast track to a hockey scholarship. But it's the norm in that sport anymore.
If you're not at a certain level in a certain league by the time you turn 17, your're not going to play Division I hockey.
Some might think it self-serving for the showcase people to point this out. But it's true. If you're not on the big baseball radar screen by the summer before your JUNIOR year of high school, you're probably not going to play at a powerhouse D-I school.
If your name isn't out there before the summer after your JUNIOR year, you're going to be fighting uphill in the quest for a scholarship.
OldVaman,
You are exactly right in how you see the timeline. In fact it isn't even restricted to powerhouse D-1 schools. More and more talent is indentified early and tracked thru a number of years. It isn't enough to have a great senior year or even to have great showcases the summer before your senior year. If you're not on the radar screen by then it's hard to get on it in time to get scholarship money or even a place on the upcoming roster.
The good news for some schools is that they can be rewarded with a very good player by working the group not seen or that blooms late. While these are mid-majors or less they can provide opportunities to play for kids who develope into players. Sometimes these schools offer more playing time than those powerhouses. you don't get better watching someone else play while you sit the bench.
You are exactly right in how you see the timeline. In fact it isn't even restricted to powerhouse D-1 schools. More and more talent is indentified early and tracked thru a number of years. It isn't enough to have a great senior year or even to have great showcases the summer before your senior year. If you're not on the radar screen by then it's hard to get on it in time to get scholarship money or even a place on the upcoming roster.
The good news for some schools is that they can be rewarded with a very good player by working the group not seen or that blooms late. While these are mid-majors or less they can provide opportunities to play for kids who develope into players. Sometimes these schools offer more playing time than those powerhouses. you don't get better watching someone else play while you sit the bench.
Great provocative article, PG.
One thing I don't get though. With the NCAA rules strictly prohibiting contact until July between Jr. & Sr. year (with the exception of one call in March), how is it even possible for schools to legally ask for a verbal commitment prior to the July 1 date? Seems like if that is indeed happening, then there are undoubtedly serious recruiting violations happening at the top programs on a regular basis.
I do not see how any kid could make an informed decision about where he wants to play unless he is examining more than one option. The exception might be if the school was the kid's dream school to start with, but even then, wouldn't the parents want to at least consider other options?
One thing I don't get though. With the NCAA rules strictly prohibiting contact until July between Jr. & Sr. year (with the exception of one call in March), how is it even possible for schools to legally ask for a verbal commitment prior to the July 1 date? Seems like if that is indeed happening, then there are undoubtedly serious recruiting violations happening at the top programs on a regular basis.
I do not see how any kid could make an informed decision about where he wants to play unless he is examining more than one option. The exception might be if the school was the kid's dream school to start with, but even then, wouldn't the parents want to at least consider other options?
quote:Originally posted by montanadad:
One thing I don't get though. With the NCAA rules strictly prohibiting contact until July between Jr. & Sr. year (with the exception of one call in March), how is it even possible for schools to legally ask for a verbal commitment prior to the July 1 date?
Email, mail, unofficial visits, "could you please call me son?" messages from the coach, etc..., etc... Nothing illegal in any of those.
Montanadad,
Good point. If a player or the parents are on the college campus or contacts a coach, the door is open for conversation about anything including scholarships. The college coach is restricted from contacting the player or the parent but the parent and the player are not restricted from contacting the coach.
Good point. If a player or the parents are on the college campus or contacts a coach, the door is open for conversation about anything including scholarships. The college coach is restricted from contacting the player or the parent but the parent and the player are not restricted from contacting the coach.
The schools that are getting early verbals are not breaking any rules. At least, not to my knowledge.
This has actually been going on for sometime. The first case I can remember was when Bobby Knight got a verbal from a ninth grader years ago.
All I know is it does happen and I believe it will increase in frequency as time goes on. Not saying I agree with it.
This has actually been going on for sometime. The first case I can remember was when Bobby Knight got a verbal from a ninth grader years ago.
All I know is it does happen and I believe it will increase in frequency as time goes on. Not saying I agree with it.
JB, I do think the mail is regulated and the coach is limited as to what he can mail a player. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Fungo
Fungo
By VaDad
This would be taking it to the opposite extreme. There have been many cases where good performances the summer after the junior year have led to good scholarship offers with the top programs. I understand your point though.
Once again, my thoughts are that anything and everything is possible. It's just the more information you have the better decisions your likely to make.
By the way, there was no planned intent to promote anything in that article.
quote:It isn't enough to have a great senior year or even to have great showcases the summer before your senior year. If you're not on the radar screen by then it's hard to get on it in time to get scholarship money or even a place on the upcoming roster.
This would be taking it to the opposite extreme. There have been many cases where good performances the summer after the junior year have led to good scholarship offers with the top programs. I understand your point though.
Once again, my thoughts are that anything and everything is possible. It's just the more information you have the better decisions your likely to make.
By the way, there was no planned intent to promote anything in that article.
Fungo - The one case I am familiar with for this year...the player made unofficial visits to his top 2 or 3 colleges before Thanksgiving...made his verbal right around then. Don't know what communication was made that set up the visits. Just guessed it was mail/email and/or calls from the player to the schools. Probably set up by text messaging! 
BTW, this player is an extremely highly ranked player by PG.
BTW, this player is an extremely highly ranked player by PG.
So as a GM/coach of a 13U travel team...I guess I can now expect the parental pressure to greatly increase much earlier. 
I don't think I'll be pointing them to this article anytime soon.
I don't think I'll be pointing them to this article anytime soon.
Sorry for adding yet another post to this thread...but I couldn't stop thinking about this topic on my drive home.
I think back to our son's Junior year in HS...early Junior year. When that first really serious letter came in from a pretty notable college, but not necessarily in the "dream" category...I remember the excitement in our house. "GEEZ, THEY really ARE interested and this may REALLY happen!" and "What if they offered him a scholarship tomorrow? Should he take it?...maybe so?!" I called someone very familiar with the recruiting process and he said, "Hey Mr. JBB, thats a great school and I think it would be a great 'fit' for your son."
"COOL!," I thought, so I called my friend, former NFL player..."Hey Joe, guess who son got a letter from?...thats right...geez I think this is maybe where he should go?" Joe replied, "Whoa! Hold your horses...there's a long road to go here and your son is going to have lots of other opportunities...thats a nice school, but why not wait and see what else happens?" We did and I'm very thankful for that advice.
Point is...I (we) were very inexperienced at this...no experience at all. My (our) excitement was so great, we could have jumped before the ball was tossed in the air. College coaches are VERY experienced at this...if they want, they can take advantage of someone like me (us) and force the issue before its necessary. We could have made all kinds of mistakes at that point...wrong school? committed for less than ultimate value? committed to a school that wouldn't even have the same coaching staff a year later? committed for a bunch of wrong reasons? All because we were naive and inexperienced.
This is my fear for this situation...the excitement overwhelms you and you make a decision too early that is hard to take back. I'm glad I had that friend with a little bit of knowledge to call. Others will fall into a trap...even unintentionally. I say if you really are a top-stud player, you can wait longer than all the others and still get what you want with another 8-12 months under your belt and a lot wiser. JMO.
I think back to our son's Junior year in HS...early Junior year. When that first really serious letter came in from a pretty notable college, but not necessarily in the "dream" category...I remember the excitement in our house. "GEEZ, THEY really ARE interested and this may REALLY happen!" and "What if they offered him a scholarship tomorrow? Should he take it?...maybe so?!" I called someone very familiar with the recruiting process and he said, "Hey Mr. JBB, thats a great school and I think it would be a great 'fit' for your son."
"COOL!," I thought, so I called my friend, former NFL player..."Hey Joe, guess who son got a letter from?...thats right...geez I think this is maybe where he should go?" Joe replied, "Whoa! Hold your horses...there's a long road to go here and your son is going to have lots of other opportunities...thats a nice school, but why not wait and see what else happens?" We did and I'm very thankful for that advice.
Point is...I (we) were very inexperienced at this...no experience at all. My (our) excitement was so great, we could have jumped before the ball was tossed in the air. College coaches are VERY experienced at this...if they want, they can take advantage of someone like me (us) and force the issue before its necessary. We could have made all kinds of mistakes at that point...wrong school? committed for less than ultimate value? committed to a school that wouldn't even have the same coaching staff a year later? committed for a bunch of wrong reasons? All because we were naive and inexperienced.
This is my fear for this situation...the excitement overwhelms you and you make a decision too early that is hard to take back. I'm glad I had that friend with a little bit of knowledge to call. Others will fall into a trap...even unintentionally. I say if you really are a top-stud player, you can wait longer than all the others and still get what you want with another 8-12 months under your belt and a lot wiser. JMO.
That is some very sound advice you're giving there. IMO