Catching coaches: do you measure and monitor release times on your cathers' throw downs?
If so, exactly how do you do it, and what do you consider an average, good and great HS release time?
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Good topic...wish I actually timed the release but unfortunately have always just eyeballed it and watched for efficient mechanics and what the pop time was. Not very scientific I admit and I don't really have anything to hang my hat on when I work with someone on improving his release...basically watching velocity of the thrown ball and the pop time and letting that guide to where the problem might be if the time isn't good.
CatchingCoach has this covered pretty on how he does it on his website. What he says makes sense about timing the release.
A good,quick release has saved alot of catchers over the years that don't have cannon arms.
CatchingCoach has this covered pretty on how he does it on his website. What he says makes sense about timing the release.
A good,quick release has saved alot of catchers over the years that don't have cannon arms.
I don't think this was meant as the original question, but what about timing the throw down at the beginning of each inning on the pitcher's last warmup pitch? I have seen lots of catchers just go through the motions on that throw rather than actually working on proper mechanics and making a good throw. I wonder if timing them wouldn't correct that problem. If nothing else, if the other teams sees the catcher throw a dart down to second base on the money, they may think twice about running on him. I'm sorry if this gets off the intended topic, but this question made me think of this.
Here is the article from my website on the method I use.
A catcher's throw down to second base to nab a potential base stealer is in essence a 3-part skill that can be evaluated for strengths and weaknesses and improved. The three components are: (1) Ball Control and Release Efficiency, (2) In-flight Velocity, and (3) Accuracy. On average a catcher's success rate is just 25% and, at best, around 50%. Each of the three components of the throw contribute to the success or failure. Without evaluating each part and just practicing the throw, success will only increase slightly. The following is the three part evaluation process, presented in reverse order.
Accuracy is the easiest to evaluate and most observable component, irrespective of the other two parts. Rating a catcher on this portion is just a matter of noting whether or not the ball arrives at the 9"x18" target some 127 feet away. Practice usually results in improvement unless the throwing mechanics are completely wrong. A simple observation of the act of throwing will tell you if the catcher is doing it right or wrong.
In-Flight Velocity
Once I get the players arm warmed up to game readiness, I have him make 6 throws from a crow hop. He can use whatever mechanics he likes to generate the maximum velocity he can. I time that on the Jugs gun. I get 6 readings; I throw out the fastest, and the slowest, and average the other 4. This gives me an average max velocity. I then have him get into his crouch. I throw him pitches down the middle and have him throw down full speed. I again have him do this 6 times and use the same method to determine his average maximum throw down velocity. After timing over 1000 catchers this way I have found that a drop in velocity of less then 3% from max velocity to throw down velocity is the goal. More of a drop then that and there is something in that player's mechanics of his throw to second base that is excessively “eating” velocity. At that point a close evaluation of those mechanics is needed.
Velocity is all over the map for me when I look at the database of kids I have timed. If I look at the High School Max-velocity kids as a group the low side is in the low 60’s. Good for HS would be low-mid 70’s, excellent would be 78-82. In the College group the low side is 70-74, good would fall in 75-79, excellent would be 80-84, 85+ would be a serious prospect as far as velocity goes.
Ball Control & Release Efficiency.
To evaluate this component I use the following technique. I position the player in front of the black Jugs tarp that hangs behind home plate in our batting cage. I measure out 10 feet and draw a line. It must always be 10 feet. The player puts his toes on the line facing the black screen. The coach kneels in front of the catcher, slightly off center. The player gets into his secondary receiving position. The coach throws the “pitch”. Player completes a full speed throw into the screen. The stopwatch is started when the ball hits glove and stopped when the ball hits the screen. The player must sit on the strike and not move until the ball hits his glove as if it were an 0-2 count late in the game. Because the catcher is releasing the ball about 5 feet in front of the screen, arm strength has little to do with the time recorded on the stopwatch. The drill gives an accurate measurement of how fast the athlete gets it in the air. You can also have the catcher throw directly into the fence backstop, but I find the tarp makes a more precise sound when hit, making it easier to ensure a good clocking.
Ave release times for High School players would be under .85 down to .78, good would be .78 down to .70, and excellent would be .69 down to .65. Below .65 is very fast for HS. For the College players in my database the average release times would be under .78 down to .70, good would be .70 down to .65, and excellent would be .65 down to .59. Below .59 is really moving. Fastest release I have ever timed at any age is a 14yr old that throws in the .49-.52 range. He is just amazing.
While some critics of the evaluation process mention that it does not incorporate all the variables of a game situation, it does give a good base for comparison between any groups of players, and chart a players progress during training. Using these measurement techniques allows me to break the throw down into its 3 different phases and better be able to attack the area of greatest weakness in any given player.
I have a number of college players that have guns for arms, velocities out of crouch 85MPH+ but have slower releases then a number of high school kids. The above evaluation technique has enabled me to isolate what section of their throw is the weakest and look for the flaws that are eating time. Likewise I have some players that have lightning fast releases but 65MPH velocity. Again it helps me direct their training efforts in the area of greatest weakness.
A catcher's throw down to second base to nab a potential base stealer is in essence a 3-part skill that can be evaluated for strengths and weaknesses and improved. The three components are: (1) Ball Control and Release Efficiency, (2) In-flight Velocity, and (3) Accuracy. On average a catcher's success rate is just 25% and, at best, around 50%. Each of the three components of the throw contribute to the success or failure. Without evaluating each part and just practicing the throw, success will only increase slightly. The following is the three part evaluation process, presented in reverse order.
Accuracy is the easiest to evaluate and most observable component, irrespective of the other two parts. Rating a catcher on this portion is just a matter of noting whether or not the ball arrives at the 9"x18" target some 127 feet away. Practice usually results in improvement unless the throwing mechanics are completely wrong. A simple observation of the act of throwing will tell you if the catcher is doing it right or wrong.
In-Flight Velocity
Once I get the players arm warmed up to game readiness, I have him make 6 throws from a crow hop. He can use whatever mechanics he likes to generate the maximum velocity he can. I time that on the Jugs gun. I get 6 readings; I throw out the fastest, and the slowest, and average the other 4. This gives me an average max velocity. I then have him get into his crouch. I throw him pitches down the middle and have him throw down full speed. I again have him do this 6 times and use the same method to determine his average maximum throw down velocity. After timing over 1000 catchers this way I have found that a drop in velocity of less then 3% from max velocity to throw down velocity is the goal. More of a drop then that and there is something in that player's mechanics of his throw to second base that is excessively “eating” velocity. At that point a close evaluation of those mechanics is needed.
Velocity is all over the map for me when I look at the database of kids I have timed. If I look at the High School Max-velocity kids as a group the low side is in the low 60’s. Good for HS would be low-mid 70’s, excellent would be 78-82. In the College group the low side is 70-74, good would fall in 75-79, excellent would be 80-84, 85+ would be a serious prospect as far as velocity goes.
Ball Control & Release Efficiency.
To evaluate this component I use the following technique. I position the player in front of the black Jugs tarp that hangs behind home plate in our batting cage. I measure out 10 feet and draw a line. It must always be 10 feet. The player puts his toes on the line facing the black screen. The coach kneels in front of the catcher, slightly off center. The player gets into his secondary receiving position. The coach throws the “pitch”. Player completes a full speed throw into the screen. The stopwatch is started when the ball hits glove and stopped when the ball hits the screen. The player must sit on the strike and not move until the ball hits his glove as if it were an 0-2 count late in the game. Because the catcher is releasing the ball about 5 feet in front of the screen, arm strength has little to do with the time recorded on the stopwatch. The drill gives an accurate measurement of how fast the athlete gets it in the air. You can also have the catcher throw directly into the fence backstop, but I find the tarp makes a more precise sound when hit, making it easier to ensure a good clocking.
Ave release times for High School players would be under .85 down to .78, good would be .78 down to .70, and excellent would be .69 down to .65. Below .65 is very fast for HS. For the College players in my database the average release times would be under .78 down to .70, good would be .70 down to .65, and excellent would be .65 down to .59. Below .59 is really moving. Fastest release I have ever timed at any age is a 14yr old that throws in the .49-.52 range. He is just amazing.
While some critics of the evaluation process mention that it does not incorporate all the variables of a game situation, it does give a good base for comparison between any groups of players, and chart a players progress during training. Using these measurement techniques allows me to break the throw down into its 3 different phases and better be able to attack the area of greatest weakness in any given player.
I have a number of college players that have guns for arms, velocities out of crouch 85MPH+ but have slower releases then a number of high school kids. The above evaluation technique has enabled me to isolate what section of their throw is the weakest and look for the flaws that are eating time. Likewise I have some players that have lightning fast releases but 65MPH velocity. Again it helps me direct their training efforts in the area of greatest weakness.
Dave -
Do you ever use a video camera to measure the release time? Seems like it would be hard to stop and start a stopwatch that quickly without some measurement error.
Playing back digital video at 60 fps you can almost guarantee accuracy to about 1/100th of a second.
Do you ever use a video camera to measure the release time? Seems like it would be hard to stop and start a stopwatch that quickly without some measurement error.
Playing back digital video at 60 fps you can almost guarantee accuracy to about 1/100th of a second.
quote:Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
Dave -
Do you ever use a video camera to measure the release time? Seems like it would be hard to stop and start a stopwatch that quickly without some measurement error.
Playing back digital video at 60 fps you can almost guarantee accuracy to about 1/100th of a second.
I have used it on occaision when at my clinics but have found that my timing is pretty consistant from player to player. Since not all coaches have access to a camera this gives a way for a coach to get a baseline number. If he is the one always timeing that player the progress or lack of progress can be charted for that player.
ive used the video tape. You can measure frames from the point when the ball hits the glove till right foot plant, left foot plant, and release. Works pretty well.
Wala -
Interesting, I've never thought of breaking it down into those increments, but video certainly lets you do it.
So, what is a good time for right foot plant and left foot plant? If .70 is an excellent release time, which is 42 frames on a 60fps camera, how should that break down into those elements?
And, is that overkill? Can you actually identify if time can be shaved from those component parts and then turn that into drills that shave it?
Interesting, I've never thought of breaking it down into those increments, but video certainly lets you do it.
So, what is a good time for right foot plant and left foot plant? If .70 is an excellent release time, which is 42 frames on a 60fps camera, how should that break down into those elements?
And, is that overkill? Can you actually identify if time can be shaved from those component parts and then turn that into drills that shave it?
Using a camera with a shutter speed of 30fps, an average ML catcher's glove to glove time would be 2.0. That's 60 total frames. An average ML catcher is in the 17-22 frame range from 1st contact to release & in the 35-40 frame range from release to 1st touch at 2nd.As you can see approximately 2/3 of the glove to glove time is taken up by ball flight.Certainly a quicker release is a factor(By catching the ball deeper, shorter & quicker momentum step,separation in front of your body,getting the ball up out of your glove,etc), however IMO the focus should be on throwing velocity. The best way to improve your throwing velocity is to improve your arm strength.(Intent,sequencing of body parts, efficient application of force,etc)
Lots of factors go in to this process. IMO the use of video analysis is the best way to see what you need to improve your glove to glove times & to measure the effect of your adjustments.
JW
Lots of factors go in to this process. IMO the use of video analysis is the best way to see what you need to improve your glove to glove times & to measure the effect of your adjustments.
JW
quote:Originally posted by jerry weinstein:
Certainly a quicker release is a factor(By catching the ball deeper, shorter & quicker momentum step,separation in front of your body,getting the ball up out of your glove,etc), however IMO the focus should be on throwing velocity. The best way to improve your throwing velocity is to improve your arm strength.(Intent,sequencing of body parts, efficient application of force,etc)
JW
Jerry, I agree that more velocity is always good but what many miss is the effect of just reducing your release by 1/10th of a scond. It is the equivilant of a 5mph increase in velocity.
Coach,
Thanks for the reply.I enjoy your material.
One tenth of a second translates into 6 video frames(for a 2.0 thrower) & almost 4 running strides(28'which is for average runners who start with a 12' lead & take 13 strides to cover the 78'). It is truely significant. It has been my experience that it's very difficult to take 6 frames off a catcher's glove to release without drastically affecting his ball in flight time. I think that you just need to experiment to find a balance between raw arm strength & quicknes.
JW
Thanks for the reply.I enjoy your material.
One tenth of a second translates into 6 video frames(for a 2.0 thrower) & almost 4 running strides(28'which is for average runners who start with a 12' lead & take 13 strides to cover the 78'). It is truely significant. It has been my experience that it's very difficult to take 6 frames off a catcher's glove to release without drastically affecting his ball in flight time. I think that you just need to experiment to find a balance between raw arm strength & quicknes.
JW
I think we need to revise the arithmetic.
0.1 seconds would be 3 frames on a 30fps camera, and somewhere around 3 feet for a pretty good runner.
Fussy mode off
0.1 seconds would be 3 frames on a 30fps camera, and somewhere around 3 feet for a pretty good runner.
Fussy mode off
Yeah Jerry your math is off somehow. I'd like to see a guy run 28 feet in .1. That would be a 60 yard dash at under one second!
Shaving a .1 off release is not easy for a kid who is at .7
But nor is it easy to go from 77 to 82 MPH from the crouch.
A .7 release with a 75 mph initial velocity equals 2.0 pop. Use those numbers as benchmarks and try to improve from there.
Shaving a .1 off release is not easy for a kid who is at .7
But nor is it easy to go from 77 to 82 MPH from the crouch.
A .7 release with a 75 mph initial velocity equals 2.0 pop. Use those numbers as benchmarks and try to improve from there.
Rob those numbers jumped out at me. When my son went to his first PG event the summer after his freshman year he was 76 from behind the plate and threw 2.01. The last event he was at this summer he was gunned at 82 and 1.91.
Coach May:
Those numbers show my point. As a freshman, your son's release time implied by those times was .77, and this summer it was .75.
So in 2 1/2 years, he added 6mph and shaved 2/100ths off his release.
Goes to show: unless a kid is real sloppy in his throw mechanics, shaving a .1 is not really very realistic.
Those numbers show my point. As a freshman, your son's release time implied by those times was .77, and this summer it was .75.
So in 2 1/2 years, he added 6mph and shaved 2/100ths off his release.
Goes to show: unless a kid is real sloppy in his throw mechanics, shaving a .1 is not really very realistic.
Guys,
Sorry .Bad math.Let me try to get this close to accurate.Assume an average ML runner will run 78' in 3.35(13 strides at approximately 6' per stride with approximately 100 total frames & approximately 7.70 frames per stride)If you knock one tenth of a second off of your glove to glove time to 2nd(6 frames) & you are an average thrower(2.0 which equals 60 frames @ 30fps)you gain approximately 5' on the runner.Not very much if you really break the equation down.Your saving grace is that runners usually break after the pitcher initiates his delivery. If they break at or just before 1st move, you have little margin for error & your pitcher must be in the 1.20 range. I'm pretty certain on this math(2.0+1.2+.1 tag time=3.3)
The point is that you can quantify what you are doing by using video and use it to find the specific areas that will allow you to pick up time.Certainly using the radar gun & a stop watch will help. If I improve my throwing velocity on the radar gun will it improve my glove to glove times?Maybe yes & maybe no. Yes if I maintain my quickness & no if it slows down my glove to release times. If I speed up my glove to release time as measured by a stopwatch, it does not mean that my glove to glove times will be faster if I have lost too much velocity as a result of gaining that quicker release.The video really helps you discover the areas of significance relative to improving your throwing.It really helps you control the variables & find the area or area that will produce the desired results( Flip transfer,catching the ball deeper,taking the ball out of the top of the glove,separation in front, better ground angles, shorter lead foot action,stide line,application of force drive line,ball to hand relationship at release to name a few of the focus areas.)
There are no absolutes. Pitches in different areas are going to require more quickeness than arm strength & visa versa. For example, a ball elevated in on a LHH where you have to swing away from the LHH to create a throwing lane requires more arm strength than quickness because you often have to delay you momentum step. Whereas a ball down & away from a right handed hitter requires more quickness than arm strength because you have to get your head up quickly to get your trunk & arm up.
Sorry for the confusion.
JW
Sorry .Bad math.Let me try to get this close to accurate.Assume an average ML runner will run 78' in 3.35(13 strides at approximately 6' per stride with approximately 100 total frames & approximately 7.70 frames per stride)If you knock one tenth of a second off of your glove to glove time to 2nd(6 frames) & you are an average thrower(2.0 which equals 60 frames @ 30fps)you gain approximately 5' on the runner.Not very much if you really break the equation down.Your saving grace is that runners usually break after the pitcher initiates his delivery. If they break at or just before 1st move, you have little margin for error & your pitcher must be in the 1.20 range. I'm pretty certain on this math(2.0+1.2+.1 tag time=3.3)
The point is that you can quantify what you are doing by using video and use it to find the specific areas that will allow you to pick up time.Certainly using the radar gun & a stop watch will help. If I improve my throwing velocity on the radar gun will it improve my glove to glove times?Maybe yes & maybe no. Yes if I maintain my quickness & no if it slows down my glove to release times. If I speed up my glove to release time as measured by a stopwatch, it does not mean that my glove to glove times will be faster if I have lost too much velocity as a result of gaining that quicker release.The video really helps you discover the areas of significance relative to improving your throwing.It really helps you control the variables & find the area or area that will produce the desired results( Flip transfer,catching the ball deeper,taking the ball out of the top of the glove,separation in front, better ground angles, shorter lead foot action,stide line,application of force drive line,ball to hand relationship at release to name a few of the focus areas.)
There are no absolutes. Pitches in different areas are going to require more quickeness than arm strength & visa versa. For example, a ball elevated in on a LHH where you have to swing away from the LHH to create a throwing lane requires more arm strength than quickness because you often have to delay you momentum step. Whereas a ball down & away from a right handed hitter requires more quickness than arm strength because you have to get your head up quickly to get your trunk & arm up.
Sorry for the confusion.
JW
Possibly a little off subject, but not really that much….
Back when I coached we were a running team that set stolen base records. Didn’t have many good hitters at times so it became important to manufacture offense. For a few years... The problem with the sac bunt was the out part. The problem with the hit and run was the hit part.
We would know within .1 or less what our runners stolen base time was without a stumble. So timing pitchers and catchers became an important part of our offensive game and strategy.
If we had a 3.4 runner at 1B. And if they had a 1.4 pitcher to the plate with a 2.1 catcher on average. Our success rate for stealing 2B was nearly 100% based on even a perfect throw and tag from an easy pitch for the catcher to handle. We would run sometimes recklessly early in the game to gather information for later on.
In other words in this situation (given above) you absolutely take all the gamble out of being thrown out (minus the variables). The variables included our runner getting a bad jump or stumbling. It also depends on the type of pitch and location of the pitch which could also be in our favor or possible pitch out which was not in our favor. And of course the situation of the game. In the case (bad jump/stumble) unless we had a hit and run on (which we seldom would with this advantage), the runner was to stop and get back to the bag. We practiced this stuff every day even during the off season. This included one way leads both ways and blocking pick off attempts among many other things.
When you have a 3.3 or 3.4 runner against a 3.5 or slower combination (pitcher/catcher), what would be the reason for bunting? In fact, in that case we did not want our hitters making contact unless the pitch was right in their wheelhouse. We did expect our hitters to protect the runner though, often with fake bunt or swing through the ball without making contact on pitches that are strikes only.
Much of what we did at the small college level would never happen in professional or high level DI baseball. You always expect to have guys who can hit at that level. And over all there aren't as many weaknesses in the pitchers and catchers. But some of this stuff does pertain to every level of baseball.
The average good runner at top speed will cover one stride in approximately .2 second. This would mean a 6 foot stride at top speed would cover 78 feet in less than 3 seconds. Of course that doesn’t happen because a runner does not start at top speed and he must slide to the bag. That is why a fast runner is more likely to be a 3.3-3.4 stealer.
Knowing your runners times are critical. If you don’t know for sure, you would just be guessing as to the percentage of success. Knowing all this also tells us what JW is talking about. The skill required by the catcher is what judges the catcher, but the combination of catcher and pitcher is needed to throw out a very quick base runner.
It’s my belief that catchers should always strive to improve arm strength, but quickness (release) is much more important IMO. In most cases it is more realistic for a catcher to improve his release to cut out time than gain enough velocity to make up the same difference. As Catching coach alluded to. However we time and gun catchers along with filming them. As Jerry W mentioned, we want to discover which areas need to be improved the most, which have the most room for improvement. Obviously, it’s not always the same from one catcher to the next. It’s true that neither area should be excluded from being improved.
BTW, it is a lot of fun watching the few that throw with outstanding velocity and have quick smooth releases and can put the ball on the money. I bet JW doesn’t even get tired of seeing that, it’s one of the most beautiful sights in baseball. Unless it’s coming from the opponent.
Lots of good stuff on this thread. Thanks
Back when I coached we were a running team that set stolen base records. Didn’t have many good hitters at times so it became important to manufacture offense. For a few years... The problem with the sac bunt was the out part. The problem with the hit and run was the hit part.
We would know within .1 or less what our runners stolen base time was without a stumble. So timing pitchers and catchers became an important part of our offensive game and strategy.
If we had a 3.4 runner at 1B. And if they had a 1.4 pitcher to the plate with a 2.1 catcher on average. Our success rate for stealing 2B was nearly 100% based on even a perfect throw and tag from an easy pitch for the catcher to handle. We would run sometimes recklessly early in the game to gather information for later on.
In other words in this situation (given above) you absolutely take all the gamble out of being thrown out (minus the variables). The variables included our runner getting a bad jump or stumbling. It also depends on the type of pitch and location of the pitch which could also be in our favor or possible pitch out which was not in our favor. And of course the situation of the game. In the case (bad jump/stumble) unless we had a hit and run on (which we seldom would with this advantage), the runner was to stop and get back to the bag. We practiced this stuff every day even during the off season. This included one way leads both ways and blocking pick off attempts among many other things.
When you have a 3.3 or 3.4 runner against a 3.5 or slower combination (pitcher/catcher), what would be the reason for bunting? In fact, in that case we did not want our hitters making contact unless the pitch was right in their wheelhouse. We did expect our hitters to protect the runner though, often with fake bunt or swing through the ball without making contact on pitches that are strikes only.
Much of what we did at the small college level would never happen in professional or high level DI baseball. You always expect to have guys who can hit at that level. And over all there aren't as many weaknesses in the pitchers and catchers. But some of this stuff does pertain to every level of baseball.
The average good runner at top speed will cover one stride in approximately .2 second. This would mean a 6 foot stride at top speed would cover 78 feet in less than 3 seconds. Of course that doesn’t happen because a runner does not start at top speed and he must slide to the bag. That is why a fast runner is more likely to be a 3.3-3.4 stealer.
Knowing your runners times are critical. If you don’t know for sure, you would just be guessing as to the percentage of success. Knowing all this also tells us what JW is talking about. The skill required by the catcher is what judges the catcher, but the combination of catcher and pitcher is needed to throw out a very quick base runner.
It’s my belief that catchers should always strive to improve arm strength, but quickness (release) is much more important IMO. In most cases it is more realistic for a catcher to improve his release to cut out time than gain enough velocity to make up the same difference. As Catching coach alluded to. However we time and gun catchers along with filming them. As Jerry W mentioned, we want to discover which areas need to be improved the most, which have the most room for improvement. Obviously, it’s not always the same from one catcher to the next. It’s true that neither area should be excluded from being improved.
BTW, it is a lot of fun watching the few that throw with outstanding velocity and have quick smooth releases and can put the ball on the money. I bet JW doesn’t even get tired of seeing that, it’s one of the most beautiful sights in baseball. Unless it’s coming from the opponent.
Lots of good stuff on this thread. Thanks
PG,
That is exactly how we coach our team.
That is exactly how we coach our team.
Raw arm strength is many times reflected by in line carry. Throws that lack in line carry look like there is less arm strength than there really is. Balls that sink or tail, especially on longer throws, lose velocity because distance magnifies poor rotation. That's why it is imperative to be able to throw with 6-12 rotation.To ensure this the ball must be released directly above your fingers.This is usually controlled by your trunk angle at release.( Straight up or slightly tilted to your glove side)
Throwing with a stripped ball gives you immediate feed back. You can also warm up down the foul line & focus on the ball staying on line without deviating left or right(It's usually right)
Throwing with a stripped ball gives you immediate feed back. You can also warm up down the foul line & focus on the ball staying on line without deviating left or right(It's usually right)
PG and Redbird we do the very same thing. It has worked well for us over the years.
There should be no arc on the ball. There should be no drop on the ball. In other words a frozen rope or straight line throw. The ball should be at its highest point when it is released imo. I like the term throw down hill. In other words throw a seed from hand to glove on a straight line or down hill. You can see lack of arm strength by the way the ball travels over that 127'.
There should be no arc on the ball. There should be no drop on the ball. In other words a frozen rope or straight line throw. The ball should be at its highest point when it is released imo. I like the term throw down hill. In other words throw a seed from hand to glove on a straight line or down hill. You can see lack of arm strength by the way the ball travels over that 127'.
