RELEASED

There is no doubt that BB is a tough sport. I know several guys who are outstanding that have been released. I also know a couple who quit out of frustration adter 3 years. One Korean guy who is one of the best infielders I have ever seen, just got tired of waiting. He actually stopped playing all together until a he was talked into playing senior BB at a very high level. He is now enjoying the game again. I often think it is smart to get your degree before going pro or at least get your JR year in so you only need 1 year if released.

BT,
If the player understands that it is a job, then he understands what happens when you join the workforce. I worked for a HUGE corporation, very often very good performers called into their supervisors office that day and told to pack up their belongings and leave the building. Cutbacks even when there were no cutbacks. They were shocked too.

I think that for some reason, it isn't always about lack of talent that players get released. I also think that teams know, if the player is good but they have no need for them at that point in time, that another team will pick them up as quickly as they were let go.

Regardless of what one does, it's crummy when you lose your job, especially one that you have a passion for.

quote:

bhd posted: I often think it is smart to get your degree before going pro or at least get your JR year in so you only need 1 year if released.

Unless you are alergic to school books, thats probably a good idea for everyone except about a 15 or 20 guys a year. Which 15 or 20 is anybody's guess.

Some times it is very hard. A player get injured and the team wait until he heals, just to release him. (teams can not release a player if the player is injured)

quote:

Originally posted by Racab:
Some times it is very hard. A player get injured and the team wait until he heals, just to release him. (teams can not release a player if the player is injured)

I did not know this. Is this so the player has medical coverage while he is healing....

njbb,
I didn't know that either.

njbb, I don't think it is for the player but has to do with protecting the club from future liabilities. Remember this is business and the players are their assets and their liabilities. My son experienced this with his medical problems. During the recovery period there was nothing but positive support from the staff, with the excited anticipation of getting back to playing ball ---- only to be blind sided with a release when he indicated he was well. Within and hour after he had signed the medical release he was gone. This is ALL about winning at the MLB level and we have to realize that. If they think your MLB future is in doubt (for any reason) you can expect the club to replace you. The stark realities of MILB is off limits in baseball discussions. It has to be that way. That would be like an army officer explaing to his men about how they will die in battle. You approach it by ignoring the facts so you can work your butt off and give it your all ---- that alone makes the release a VERY tough pill to swallow.
Fungo

I never thought about it before but are players entitled to workmens compensation for work related injuries? I believe with other types of employment,if an employee is injured on the job and can't return to his regular work the employer is required to find him other work with in the company

maybe they don't release the injured player because of workers comp.? i know a few that have been injured and were collecting. it is a job after all.

fungo
sorry to here about your son. has he or will he catch on elsewhere? i wish him luck.

njbb - yes - but with many qualifications - that also vary by state.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
njbb, I don't think it is for the player but has to do with protecting the club from future liabilities. Remember this is business and the players are their assets and their liabilities. My son experienced this with his medical problems. During the recovery period there was nothing but positive support from the staff, with the excited anticipation of getting back to playing ball ---- only to be blind sided with a release when he indicated he was well. Within and hour after he had signed the medical release he was gone. This is ALL about winning at the MLB level and we have to realize that. If they think your MLB future is in doubt (for any reason) you can expect the club to replace you. The stark realities of MILB is off limits in baseball discussions. It has to be that way. That would be like an army officer explaing to his men about how they will die in battle. You approach it by ignoring the facts so you can work your butt off and give it your all ---- that alone makes the release a VERY tough pill to swallow.
Fungo

Fungo good post. I know of a player (you know of him) who was hit by a ball and eventually recovered. He never played much after that and asked for a release. They refused several times, he finally got it.
So what makes teams let some go unexpectedly and others have to beg for a release? Or is this just one of those thing that you just can never figure out?

TPM, Of course I don't know but will give you my opinion. I think it has to do with timing and who they have waiting in the "wings". There has to be X number of players to fill the slots. If they can get someone better --- I assume they will do that. I do know the player, and his injury but I don't know the circumstances surrounding his release.

20dad, Thanks. He was picked up by the Rockies within a week --- his thyroid medication has been regulated and he will have LASIK surgery on his eyes (for the second time) tomorrow at 2:00. He hopes thing will level out ---- we'll see.
Fungo

Other times when a player ask for his release, the team put him on the restricted list( kind od punishment), that way the player can not sign with any other team. It is something like, " if you don't play with me, you don't play with nonbody else"

Fungo
I hope your son will come out well from the operation. And I pray God to give him a great season next year.

Best of luck to Josh tomorrow and next season. He's a player.

Fungo - hope all went well with the surgery.

My best wishes to Josh and speedy recovery!!!
catchersdad

Our best wishes to Josh for a successful procedure and his quick return to the baseball field.

Best of luck to Josh!

I'm so sorry that your son experienced a release...especially after working through an injury. The Rockies are a great organization, though. Josh may look back on this one day and think it was the best thing that ever happened to him.
We'll keep you both in our prayers.

My son had the opportunity to play pro ball in the very short lived CBL in 2003. Though an excellent player he was not a "prospect" and played at the CC level for 2 years, spending a large part of the following summer of '02 going to tryout camps. In the end he was notified by the CBL that he had been selected and signed a contract. Though originally scheduled to play a 72 game season, poor business decisions forced the league to fold at the midway point. My son came away with many memories and a much better understanding of the business side of the game.

He was fortunate to play at the pro level and realize the dream that only 1 in 16,000 are able to experience. He also learned that nobody loves you at that level. It's business plain and simple with everybody scratching to stay in the game and perhaps climb a ways back up the ladder.

We took photos of him the day the contract came (big smile), the day he signed and we have photos of him during games. I also have a ball that was fouled off during one of his games played in Victoria B.C. I was sitting in the stands and never moved. The ball landed in my lap.

My son was 2 for 4 that day, stole a base and scored the go ahead run in a game they eventually won. It's all written on the ball I caught.

In the end fond memories.

Snowman is that the Canadian Baseball League ? we had a team in Wellamd Ontario if that is the same league.
My son was working out with thje Niagara Stars which was run by Fergie Jenkins daughter. My son was spotted by Ron Davis (Yankee MR) and he approached me to hyave him come out for a bull pen. Once he threw a bull pen he told him to come out to all the bull pens he could and workout with the team. Very exciting to have him approach us but they folded afte a few weeks.
They couldn't get the crowds. That was the 3rd pro team that went through Welland and the 5th that went trough the area. They needed 1400 fans to break even but were only getting 300-400.
We were very upset when they left because they had assured everyone they could afford to lose money for 2-3 years. They packed up right in the middle of the season.

BobbleheadDoll

It was the Canadian Baseball League. Originally he was assigned to the Victoria Capitals but just before the season started they transferred him to the Calgary Outlaws where he remained until the league folded. Looking back we both thought he would have enjoyed his time more in Victoria which, as you know, had the best turnout of fans in the league though their record could have been better. The turnout in Calgary was 2nd to Victoria.

The concept had potential but some of the decision makers were spending someone else's money, making too many mistakes.

Victoria is a beautiful city. My oldest daughter got her master from U of Victoria.
The western teams did get better turnout than the eastern teams.
The local team was run by Fergie Jenkins daughter and she didn't have a clue how to run a BB team. They played out of the same stadium that my son's elite team played out of. One day after a team meeting Ron Davis watched our team work out before a game. He asked a parent who my son was and then approached me to invite him to workout with the team. he was the teams pitching coach and was a former NY Yankee pitcher. It was very exciting for him.
I was dissapoited that they floded but it was obvious it wouldn't last. As I say we have had 5 pro/minor league teams come and go over the years. The last Pen League team moved to New Jersey I believe and they were here for 14 years.

Fungo...Sorry to hear the news about Josh. Tell him to keep his head up. I'm sure he will do well with his new team. We are pulling for him!!!

Fungo ...

Please include my good wishes to Josh with the Rockies. That is a club that definitely is on the move upward and I hope that with his medication adjusted and his eye surgery, the future looks only bright for him.

In answer to BT's original question ... tho our son (fortunately) has not been released, he has witnessed several good friends get the pink slip in the past few years. I think the biggest problem that most of them have experienced is the TIMING of the release ... especially those who go all the way through spring training and are released just as it ends, leaving them with few opportunities to go elsewhere. It is tough to see these guys go after they have poured their hearts, souls, and in some cases skin and bones, into the game that they love. Our daughter-in-law was just telling us yesterday that she 'hates' to check the daily transactions as this time of year for that very reason ... but she still checks and says a prayer of thanksgiving when she doesn't see AJ's name on the list.

Most of the players who get released are totally surprised but they should not be. A low batting average, high ERA or they cant throw a strike are pretty good signs you are not getting the job done and the bal club thinks they have some one who has a better chance replacing them.

Just a fact 90% of minor league players will not reach the Majors.

go to
http://www.thebaseballcube.com

punch in the players name, it is usually pretty clear why someone got released, unless it was off field matters.

quote:

it is usually pretty clear why someone got released, unless it was off field matters.

That is an atrociously unfair comment in my view.
I can plug in the name of a player who hit about .200 in the NY/PENN league after hitting nearly .300 with 12HR's the year before.
He is done in professional baseball and it had nothing to do with off field issues or his skills as a player.
I can plug in the name of another who hit .260 in the NY/PENN and .290 in the MWL and then .180 in the Fla State league. Off field issues..NOPE.
Ability issues..NOPE. Overmatched...NOPE.
Both tried to play with and through very serious, and career threatening injuries, based on medical assurances they could and desire you would not recognize.
I can point you to 3 guys in AA last season who had stats that look like they were overmatched. Again, each ended the season with a surgery. The cube tells you stats. It does not measure skill, ability, heart, intangibles or injury.
I would have expected better for someone so close to the game.

I am sorry but some players get released because of medical problems and other things like some one they team has alot more $$$ in plays his position. Each level of baseball is stronger and alot of .300 hitters cant make the jump to another level. Also age players a factor too.

If you get released get mad and show people they made a mistake. Trust me MLB teams often are questioning what were thinking signing many players. Alot of player mentally dont have the desire and work habits to reach the majors.

.180 in the any league is not good and will get sent you home very fast.

MLB and Milb is a fascinating dynamic.
What of those fascinating aspects is just about to happen, the Rule V draft.
If one studies some organizations with some degree of care, you find they consistently like the players...in other organizations.
So, in response to your suggestions, sure there are players who don't have heart and desire.
Sure there are players with whom the organization made mistakes.
But there are many organizations which don't operate in an effective and productive way, don't change those making decisions, and continue to languish in bad decisions.
BTW, a player cannot be released if they are injured.

quote:

by ifdad: I can plug in the name of another who hit .260 in the NY/PENN and .290 in the MWL and then .180 in the Fla State league. Off field issues..NOPE.

ifdad, are you sure about that?

Bee> Since the player is my son, I am pretty sure about that, thanks.
Isn't it interesting how it is easy to jump to conclusions about reasons for a decrease in production.
There are plenty of young men in Milb who get medically cleared to play with extremely serious and debilitating injuries. You can't measure the impact of the injury on Frank's Cube but it is real.

quote:

by ifdad: I am pretty sure about that, thanks

sorry to hear about ifson, I do hope things work out

...really sorry to hear that. Still a fan, though.

Me too. I'm sorry to hear this and I hope some new doors open quickly.

Thanks to each of you.
I apologize if I created confusion. Our son hasn't been released.
He has not given up and his season that started at the .180 level ended up on a somewhat higher note when awareness of what he could do and couldn't became better known.
But let me take the issue Frank raises and put it in a broader context.
Many of you may be aware of Alex Smith, the young 49er QB. In the 3rd game of the year, he suffered a very significant injury to his throwing shoulder. Sat out two games and tried to return when medical cleared that he "could not do more damage."
He performed very poorly after he was medically "cleared." He kept his mouth shut while the coaches confidently stated his play was poor, he was "healthy" and the injury was no "excuse."
Smith wanted to play, to compete, not be a considered a whiner and kept his mouth shut for several weeks.
Finally, his poor play was evident on a Monday night game. Coach told the media he played poorly, needs to improve, and he is healthy and his shoulder isn't the issue. Smith finally disclosed in an interview the extent to which his pain impacted his play, to which his coach expressed "surprise" and he should have told me.
Minor league players are in a difficult situation but with far less leverage than Alex Smith who is guaranteed about $24,000,000.
There can be a language gap between being "medically" cleared or "playing won't cause more damage" and being "healthy" enough to perform at the professional level. Alex Smith has $24,000,000 worth of leverage.
Most in Milb are viewed just as Frank Martin views them. You either perform or you are released.
Changes in performance are/can be justified based on matriculation and skill level, not injury and impairment. Being medically cleared and "playing won't cause more damage" can be interpreted as "healthy" and 100%.
I tend to believe there may be many Alex Smith stories in Milb. Most will never be known.
Frank Martin will point to the Cube and cite the reason the player didn't make it and was released.
I guess I have a problem with a "career" and "ability" being defined by clicking on the Cube.

Here is a bios of a guy I know who was released after 3 years in the minors and had reached AAA level. He is probably one of the most outstanding players I have ever seen.

U of Houston

2002 NCAA Regional at Mesa All-Tournament Team
2002 Silver Glove All-Series Team
2001 Collegiate Baseball Freshman All-America
2001 C-USA All-Freshmen Team
C-USA Hitter of the Week (May 7, 2001)


Solid all-around player... Struggled with injuries a year ago but should be healthy by the beginning of the year... Offensive threat who can still make dazzling defensive plays at the hot corner.

2002 SEASON
Finished second on the team with 119 assists and was one of only two players to finish with more walks than strikeouts... Went 3-for-5 with two runs against Texas at the Astros College Classic... Set the tone early against USC at the Kia Baseball Bash with a three-run home run� Batted safely in all three games at the Kia Tournament with four runs and three RBIs against nationally-ranked opponents... Went 3-for-5 at UL Lafayette in the middle game of that series... Scored the tying run in the bottom of the ninth against McNeese State... Went 3-for-5 with a run, RBI and triple at UAB in the first game of that series�. Went 2-for-4 with two runs against Memphis in the series finale... Went 2-for-3 with a double and RBI against Saint Louis in that series finale... Led all players by going 3-for-3 with a run against Texas-San Antonio... Went 2-for-5 with a double and two RBIs at Charlotte in the series opener... Batted 2-for-4 with a run against New Mexico State during the first game of the NCAA Regional at Mesa� Blasted home run and added two RBIs against host Arizona State in second game at NCAA Regional at Mesa� Went 2-for-5 with two RBIs against Arizona State in the championship game of the NCAA Regional at Mesa.

2001 SEASON
Earned Honorable Mention Freshman All-America honors from Collegiate Baseball... C-USA All-Freshman honoree... Finished as the hottest hitter on the team during the second half of the season... After fighting nagging injuries the first half of the season (including a pulled quad muscle, a strained shoulder and an impacted tooth), made his return to action at Arizona (Mar. 14) with sensational results... Went 4-for-4 with a double and a walk while driving in three runs and scoring twice against the Wildcats... Arizona outburst began a 40-for-105 run that raised his average 155 points over a two-month span... One of only two Cougars to slug four hits in a game and did it twice (vs. Arizona and Charlotte)... Clubbed three hits in a game three times, most recently against Saint Louis... Owned 13 multi-hit games... Maintained a .362 average against C-USA competition... Batted .357 when leading off an inning, .359 with runners in scoring position, .322 with two outs and .444 with the bases loaded... Second on team in doubles (11) and RBIs (36)... Drove in six runs against Charlotte, the most by a Cougar in a game all season... Appeared in 45 games with 42 starts... Made nine earlier starts at shortstop and three as the DH... Played outstanding defense since moving to third base against Memphis... Started every game at third base since that time (30 consecutive)... Catalyst for eight double plays at the hot corner... Tied a career-best with five assists against Rice... Posted five assists at shortstop in back-to-back games against Rice and San Diego State... Named the C-USA Hitter of the Week on May 7... Selected to the All-Series Team for UH�s five annual games with crosstown rival Rice.

INTERNATIONAL EXPERIENCE
Named the Most Valuable Player of the Canadian National Team in the summer of 1999... Recorded a .484 batting average (30-for-62) with 27 RBI and 24 runs scored in 16 games played against elite (and often older) international competition from around the world... Played against former Cougar All-American and Team USA pitcher Kyle Crowell...

BBhead,

To put it into context for us, can you provide a quick snapshot of his stats up through the minors to the point he was released?

Looked him up, I know who you’re talking about. I remember watching him play the infield while in high school. It was his defensive ability that I remember the most. Do remember him being very talented, but don’t think I could say he was one of the best I’ve ever seen. Then again I only saw him briefly. Excellent player, though! Looking at his stats on Baseball Cube, I’m wondering why they released him. Also wonder why they switched him to the outfield.