RELEASED

I haven't seen his stats but he was at AAA. His dad told me he was getting fed up waiting so he may have had a change in attitude which could have hurt him. He hung up his spikes but was talking into playing Senior Intercounty BB.
I have seen him over the last 2 years and he has made some of the most spectaclar plays I have ever see at 3B.
He also hits for power and contact.Just an all around great ball player.
"

It also has to do alot with age relative to league.
A 24 year old shouldn't be repeating AA for any reason. Also, there are some teams that just can not development players. A player in the Devil Rays organization is going to have a better chance then a player in the Yankees organization. You might eat better while in the Yankees organization but the Devil Rays will be more patient with you.

Is that still true regarding the Yankees? Haven't they begun to make an effort at developing players again? I don't know, I just pose the question for clarification...

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
Is that still true regarding the Yankees? Haven't they begun to make an effort at developing players again? I don't know, I just pose the question for clarification...

floridafan,
There are some teams that will always be better at developing talent, but I think that many teams that
used to rely on trade and free agency (including the one son plays for) are now developing new pilosophies regarding bringing up their young players.

I don't know if the Yankees develop young talent or not.... But it sure would be tough to crack into that starting line up

quote:

A 24 year old shouldn't be repeating AA for any reason. Also, there are some teams that just can not development players. A player in the Devil Rays organization is going to have a better chance then a player in the Yankees organization.

When a player gets cut on the eve of opening day he takes what he can get or waits until the dust settles. I know a player and a teammate who were cut in this manner last spring. They are very similar players with similar stats. They both signed on in AA. One with the Marlins. One with the Yankees. The one with the Yankees got the call. Go figure. He wasn't having as good of a season as the other player. The one with the Marlins will be in camp this spring after being a AA all-star. He had already hit .289 in a previous AAA season and been a minor league all-star at every level. These two guys had the misfortune of being in an organization that preferred signing 30 something veterans for the bench rather than bring up a rookie.

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
I don't know if the Yankees develop young talent or not.... But it sure would be tough to crack into that starting line up

The Yankees have always developed talent. They just traded off a lot for proven players. until recently their minor league system was having some down years. They have some young studs now.

The Yankees released 33 players last week. That is crazy.

Cardinals, Yankees, Rangers, and Red Sox all have improved with grooming talent.

teams that can not groom their own players:

1. Giants
2. Astros
3. Pirates
4. Mariners
5. Orioles

The way baseball works is odd. The Marlins do not like sending their top prospects that are pitchers to their AAA club because its in the PCL which is a huge hitters league and they are afraid their pitchers will suffer some mental abuse watching their ERA skyrocket. They rather sign a 28 year old filler which creates a log jam in the lower levels causing some players to eventually get cut.
Then you have some teams that have their affilates spread out across the US and factor in travel cost for player movement.

How does the "dance" prceeding the draft work? If a player is being contacted by more than one organization, not really getting any onther indication than "interest" and casual conversation, does a player have any input on who he is drafted by? If he wants to play pro ball, does he just want to get into the system any way he can?

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
If he wants to play pro ball, does he just want to get into the system any way he can?

IMO, a player out of HS has options, if he doesn't like the team, he can go to college and try to improve for the next draft. Lots of factors can go into the decision, where the player will start off in rookie, how the team develops it's players, etc. For some, the first few years are very difficult to adjust to especially if they go to the opposite end of the country away from home. College players aren't so fortunate for the decision, they know they might not get the chance again. But most have been away from home for at least 3 years and the adjustment is easier. Even mine, being so far from home for 3 years felt pretty lonely when he first got to ss. The nice part was that many of the players he played with, or against where in that league so for the short time he was there, every team had a familiar face, and a chance to spend a lunch or dinner together. You have no say in who drafts you, your only choice is yes or no after you are drafted. Sometimes you can have teams watch your every HS game and then out of nowhere you get drafted by another team where you never met the scout. Out of HS, there was a team very interested in son, he didn't think it was a good option but since then their farm system has changed. However, it's a team where you would have to have superstar status to break into the line up, someday. Problem is, you get drafted by a team with a solid line up, you can be back logged for many years if they don't trade you or release you. I have friends whose sons have asked for releases just because they felt they were going nowhere and wanted to get on with their lives. They did not want to be professional milb players forever. This is a personal choice.

I think it is important for a HS player to develop on a team that is known for development of young players out of HS. Some teams also work very hard at developing their young players because it increases their trade value. Teams are learning this. And remember chances are the team that drafts you might not be the team you end up with eventually. While you are playing, someone from your team is writing up a report on you while the opposing team is doing the same thing.

I beleive W77's statement to be true. Some teams will not send pitchers to their AAA club if it is not a pitchers league. Same for hitters. These days you see more players on many teams going to AA then onto the 40 man.

There's a lot more to pro ball system than some realize.

quote:

I beleive W77's statement to be true. Some teams will not send pitchers to their AAA club if it is not a pitchers league. Same for hitters. These days you see more players on many teams going to AA then onto the 40 man.

There are teams that load up their AAA with ex-MLB'ers to keep them ready in case of injury or September pennant race callups. Many of their propsects jump from AA or don't make it. The Mets recent history comes to mind.

TPM,

is there a site you can reference on teams and their histories of developing talent?....interesting points all around !

The only way a player can influence a team from not selecting him is by his agent or immaturity.

Funny story about Josh Beckett influencing who drafted him:

Days before the 1999 draft, the Devil Rays didn't know who they wanted to take between Josh Beckett and Josh Hamilton. The front office of the Rays invited Josh Beckett to come over and talk to the owner of the Devil Rays. Their choice was made for them by Josh's arrogance. Lounging around like the place was his with his feet on the coffee table, he called Naimoli “Vince.” and told them what it would take to sign him. At that moment, many of the Devil Rays execs in attendance decided that Hamilton was the better fit for the organization.

Josh was elated to realize one of his childhood dreams, but he also understood he was in excellent bargaining position. Determined to get every last nickel out of the Marlins, he played hardball with the club. Florida initially offered a package that topped out at $4 million. Josh wanted nearly twice that much. The negotiations dragged on through the summer. When August rolled around, Josh enrolled at Blinn Junior College in Texas and prepared to start his freshman year.

The Marlins finally blinked, inking him for four years at $7 million, including a signing bonus of nearly $4 million. The team announced the deal during a press conference at the Astrodome in Houston. Helping seal the deal was that fact that Florida agreed to a big league contract. That meant Josh was placed on the team’s 40-man roster, and the Marlins would be compelled to promote him to the majors sooner rather than later.

W77:

Had to chuckle when I saw the Giants at the top of your "Failure to Develop" List. It's no secret in the Northwest League why Salem-Keizer wins the league so often. If your short-season A team sported an average age of 25, it might win, too!

Ain't that the truth, P. Of course, given the average age of the parent team....it makes sense .

I think the general rule for a draft to be considered a success is a draft that brings a team one everyday player and one part time player. Looking at the possible Opening Day lineup and rotation for the Giants:

Catcher Bengie Molina
First Base Rich Aurilia
Second Base Ray Durham
Third Base Kevin Frandsen ( 04 Draft 12th Round)
Shortstop Omar Vizquel
Left Field Dave Roberts
Center Field Aaron Rowand
Right Field Randy Winn
SP- Barry Zito
SP- Matt Cain ( 02 Draft 1st Round)
SP- Noah Lowry ( 01 Draft 1st Round)
SP- Tim Lincecum ( 06 Draft 1st Round)
SP- Kevin Correia ( 02 Draft 4th Round)
RP- Vinnie Chulk
RP- Randy Messenger
RP- Tyler Walker
RP- Brad Hennessey ( 01 Draft 1st Round)
RP- Jose Capellan
Closer- Brian Wilson ( 01 Draft 24th Round)

Thats pretty sad.

Why are you picking on the Giants?????

First of all, if you check their roster you'll see that Salem-Keizer's average age was more like 21-22, which in typical for short season A...and they were named 2007 Minor League Team of the Year. Secondly, I think I read that the Giant's affiliates had the best combined record in all of minor league baseball this past season.

Actually, if you check their roster, you'll see the players are primarily 23-24 and in (at least) their second season of pro ball, in spite of having come out of college programs for the most part.

Most organizations will send college players to ss for their first year (hs players being more likely to go to rookie ball); development would then dictate that those players are promoted to one of two A level clubs.

I checked out son's roster on the milb web site.
They list my son as 22, his birthday was in Dec. so he was 21 during the season.
I'm guessing all the rosters show players current age.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info. When our son played for SK, most of his team came straight from college.

As for the Giants player development...
they've taken GREAT care of our son over the past 5 years and our hope is that he will someday be able to provide a good return for all of the time, money, and support they've invested in him.

2007 Roster

and Prepster & my sons played in that league last year.

It's great that the Giants have taken care of your son; they obviously think highly of him.

But there are a lot of pre-2007 draftees on their roster from last season.

I was shocked to see that Andy D'alessio (senior sign Clemson) spent most of his summer in Giants rookie camp. This makes no sense to me at all. This player is probably the best 1B player I have ever seen in college ball in a top conference, a power hitter as well (but not selective on his pitches). To me this just indicates no player movement during the season. I am curious to see where he begins his season.

Although not always having the best farm system, the Cards ML director beleives you develop by playing tougher compensation, you do not lay stagnant for years in one place, or you are released if you do not develop, according to your age development. This happens often when teams just trade, don't develop. Thank goodness, many teams are developing new approaches to their farm systems.

My sons team one was of the worst in the NYP league, mainly because the door revolves quickly. If you do well, you are out to Quad City in a flash. I did notice on one other team, much older players that were beyond their first year out of college and MLB players getting in practice time before they head back to the show.

Everyone uses their systems differently. I am not one to know who is doing a better job than others, but sometimes the obvious is hard to argue.

IMHO, the best organizations take an individual approach to player development. They get to know their players, work with them closely, and place them in situations that challenge them enough to build their skill level without destroying their confidence. Some kids, like Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum, progress through the system quickly. Others may need a little more time, depending on a WIDE variety of factors.

MLB is a very complicated, competitive, and fluid business. Many considerations go into minor league placement decisions ...most of which are never revealed to the general public. What may seem obvious is often not the case.

Txmom,
Your son has made it to where most of ours will never see. He made his MLB debut in 2005 and on the 40 man roster which is every players goal, right?

Please don't take it personally all teams do things their own way for development which doesn't make it right or wrong. And all teams do take very good care of their players, in one way or another.

Just recently read in baseball america that the Giants have begun rebuiding their farm system and that they have not had a homegrown star in their system since 1985 (out of hs) but have most likely some of the best young crop of pitchers in MLB. They also did acguire some amazing talent in the recent draft out of HS, now they just need to develop them. This isn't coming from me, but Baseball America. I just think that W77 made some good points about some teams who need to develop better farms. The better you develop your farm, teh better pool of players you have to call up when there is no big trade available, or very few FA available at the MLB level. which has been the case in recent years

Hey, it was known for years the cards did nothing to develop homegrown kids or move their top prospects along. Those changes are occuring now.

One good thing for all of our players, they are entering systems (all) where older successful players are retiring and those taking PED's to remain in teh game longer can no longer do that (hopefully). This forces teams to begin to rely on their own farms, no always someone elses.

Am I understanding this correctly...you are only considered home grown talent if you are drafted and signed out of high school. Those that choose to get an education while persuing baseball are not considered home grown talent even if they end up signing with the Giants or any other MLB team in California?

Good question I may be wrong but home grown always meant to me straight out of HS or one year JUCO developing within that organization until he reaches MLB.

quote:

Originally posted by TxMom:
IMHO, the best organizations take an individual approach to player development. They get to know their players, work with them closely, and place them in situations that challenge them enough to build their skill level without destroying their confidence. Some kids, like Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum, progress through the system quickly. Others may need a little more time, depending on a WIDE variety of factors.

MLB is a very complicated, competitive, and fluid business. Many considerations go into minor league placement decisions ...most of which are never revealed to the general public. What may seem obvious is often not the case.

I agree with TxMom.
I think it takes awhile for players and parents to understand the decisions that are made involving players.
What at first seemed very simple is really very complicated. As son progresses though the system I 'm in awe of the thought, money and time that spent on players and their development.
PS I think the goal is the 25 man roster

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
PS I think the goal is the 25 man roster

Once you make the 40?

Txmom is such a sweet mom and person, no harm or to hurt feelings intended.

i may be wrong but i think home grown means developing in the teams system. regardless of drafted out of hs or college. like bostons ellsbury or bucholts. that's what we call it up here.

20Dad,
You could be right, it may mean you were drafted by a team and made it to the MLB without being traded, etc, no matter how long it takes or doesn't take.
I don't consider pitchers that come out of college and pitching in a year or two at the major league level home grown. JMO.

Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, Papelbon and Buckholtz were referred to by Theo Epstein as an example of how the Red Sox have fixed their minor league sustem and are now bringing up home grown talent. These players all played college ball.

I'd be curious. TxMom, when did your son sign? As for the home grown. It means what 20dad said. Its just building your major league team through your minor league system from draft to the big leagues. Instead of building your big league team through free agent signs and trades of one big leaguer for another.

Some players are near big league ready and make it fairly quick. If they were drafted and made it in one year to the big leagues then that player would fit the bill on the statistical data as being "home grown".

as for this statement....Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, Papelbon and Buckholtz were referred to by Theo Epstein as an example of how the Red Sox have fixed their minor league sustem and are now bringing up home grown talent. These players all played college ball.....

Each one of those guys could play when they were drafted. Buckholtz is the only one that needed seasoning and coaching. Sure they are home grown but they were just stuck in a minor league lineup and they played and were left alone.

Thank you for the clarification.

quote:

Each one of those guys could play when they were drafted. Buckholtz is the only one that needed seasoning and coaching. Sure they are home grown but they were just stuck in a minor league lineup and they played and were left alone.

But homegrown (from draft to MLB) by definition which is my point.