To All
Tongue-in-cheek is not the same thing as spinning a concoction dealing with a non-entity or reality for-that-matter.
2seamer
The truth of the substance is not the same as the "users" view or their supporters analysis of it.
LadyNmom
You caught the gist, lest you be not offended. Its path begins at the tit and you watch the results at the CWS where only the thumbsuckers can't figure its course of evolution.
PG Staff
My response was only in kind...as was yours, a non-sequitor.
FutureBackMom
Its about who's ox is being gored. Yours is a icon of the segregated period of baseball. Mine is the results of that residue.
Moc1
Your assertions continue to miss the intended mark..but I acknowledge to effort, though it lacks sufficient articulate significance for me.
The keys can't maintain the level of flow in thought as conjuctivvee with the ccxrrct speelliinngg...sorry about that.
The kid who caught the ball was on Cold Pizza this morning. I wasn't paying close attention at first so it took a while to put the act together. This young soilder of Hispanic decent seemed to be a very honest and sincere young man but at the same time validated the fact that some were born to be chiefs and others born to be indians. The announcer was trying his best to keep the questions simple but at times I felt the kid just did not understand. I'm afraid when all is said and done this young soilder will come out of this as not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and that's a shame.
He did not get a chance to ask Barry to sign the ball. I guess Bonds came in, stopped, took a picture and left. The kid said "it happened so fast". It's to bad Barry could not have taken a minute out of his busy day and at least find out a little something about this American hero. This is where Barry missed the boat of some great publicity. I guess, when all is said and done, and you find the bottom line, it is all about Barry.
When asked if the ball was in a safe spot, he said that it was on the Army base and you needed an id to get on.
When asked if he would sell the ball the kid said that if anyone was interested they should give him a call.
I thought that your 15 min of fame should be positive endever, I hope that America and the media stands behind this kid. He was way over his head. The best thing that could happen is the military which is who he trusts steps in and gives this kid a hand in getting rid of the ball. He should use the system before the system uses him. The vultures are already circling over this guy.
Check out the interview if you can. Like I said I was not completly tuned in and may have gotten the wrong read.
He did not get a chance to ask Barry to sign the ball. I guess Bonds came in, stopped, took a picture and left. The kid said "it happened so fast". It's to bad Barry could not have taken a minute out of his busy day and at least find out a little something about this American hero. This is where Barry missed the boat of some great publicity. I guess, when all is said and done, and you find the bottom line, it is all about Barry.
When asked if the ball was in a safe spot, he said that it was on the Army base and you needed an id to get on.
When asked if he would sell the ball the kid said that if anyone was interested they should give him a call.
I thought that your 15 min of fame should be positive endever, I hope that America and the media stands behind this kid. He was way over his head. The best thing that could happen is the military which is who he trusts steps in and gives this kid a hand in getting rid of the ball. He should use the system before the system uses him. The vultures are already circling over this guy.
Check out the interview if you can. Like I said I was not completly tuned in and may have gotten the wrong read.
Been-I know you don't care-that's why you responded to my post 
."Stay at home". Is that an order?
Ramrod ....
I know I will be kicking myself in the arse for continuing this but what the heck does this mean:
I am not saying, nor have I ever said, that Babe Ruth is my icon. (My icons, if you will, are the likes of Orel Herschiser and Greg Maddux.) The only reason Babe Ruth was mentioned, besides it being his record, was because his reputation for drinking beer (and overeating) was used in a comical banner displayed at the Philadelphia game, and you tried to compare the illegality of beer at that time with the illegality of anabolic steroids.
And why the heck are you bringing race into the discussion ... as you have done so many times in the pase, I might add? No one else has even intimated that race has anything to do with this topic. And how is Barry Bonds the result of 'the residue' (whatever that means)? What about African-American players like Hank Aaron and Frankie Robinson who accomplished far greater things than home run records (my opinion) to bring us out of the segregated days of baseball? Or is there something sinister there as well that this old middle-aged lady doesn't see?
Your illogical answer to my post, your excess usage of multi-syllabic words, and your repeated attempt at dragging racial issues into the discussions on this board are once again non-answers to some of the points brought up by those of us who disagree with you.
Geeeeshhhhhhhhh
I know I will be kicking myself in the arse for continuing this but what the heck does this mean:
quote:FutureBackMom
Its about who's ox is being gored. Yours is a icon of the segregated period of baseball. Mine is the results of that residue.
I am not saying, nor have I ever said, that Babe Ruth is my icon. (My icons, if you will, are the likes of Orel Herschiser and Greg Maddux.) The only reason Babe Ruth was mentioned, besides it being his record, was because his reputation for drinking beer (and overeating) was used in a comical banner displayed at the Philadelphia game, and you tried to compare the illegality of beer at that time with the illegality of anabolic steroids.
And why the heck are you bringing race into the discussion ... as you have done so many times in the pase, I might add? No one else has even intimated that race has anything to do with this topic. And how is Barry Bonds the result of 'the residue' (whatever that means)? What about African-American players like Hank Aaron and Frankie Robinson who accomplished far greater things than home run records (my opinion) to bring us out of the segregated days of baseball? Or is there something sinister there as well that this old middle-aged lady doesn't see?
Your illogical answer to my post, your excess usage of multi-syllabic words, and your repeated attempt at dragging racial issues into the discussions on this board are once again non-answers to some of the points brought up by those of us who disagree with you.
Geeeeshhhhhhhhh
FBM
You should know that RR is not only illogical but at many times disoriented and truly lost if the book infront of him is on the wrong page when he is looking for a word with 12 letters or more--
You should know that RR is not only illogical but at many times disoriented and truly lost if the book infront of him is on the wrong page when he is looking for a word with 12 letters or more--
TR ...
I understand you completely on this ... think I have developed some masochistic tendancies in my old age.
I understand you completely on this ... think I have developed some masochistic tendancies in my old age.
FBM....I was tempted to respond too.....but...will let Quintilian do it for me......"Those who wish to appear wise among fools, among the wise seem foolish."
Sometimes when dealing with things like this you need to do what you need to do
Lady ..
As my college English professor once said: All who generalize are fools.
As my college English professor once said: All who generalize are fools.
I love these sessions.
If the Home Run record is 755, what is the big deal in Bonds passing the second place guy?
I already know why it is important in the hearts of some, which unveils their hypocrisy on other issues.
If Bonds and other players used steroids before they were banned by baseball, can baseball reasonably discipline them?
The question of perjury has nothing to actually do with baseball.It only has to do with the hearings in which Bonds testified.
I am torn on the issue of HGH. If some day it is produced without harmful side effects, wouldn't we all want to use it? Or if an herbal concoction was able to stimulate the production of HGH wouldn't we all want it?
I am now and will always be anti-steroids in sports for performance enhancement.
Why is it that the Olympics have tougher testing than our professional sports? The Olympics are by no means amatuer sports competition as it once was.
If the Home Run record is 755, what is the big deal in Bonds passing the second place guy?
I already know why it is important in the hearts of some, which unveils their hypocrisy on other issues.
If Bonds and other players used steroids before they were banned by baseball, can baseball reasonably discipline them?
The question of perjury has nothing to actually do with baseball.It only has to do with the hearings in which Bonds testified.
I am torn on the issue of HGH. If some day it is produced without harmful side effects, wouldn't we all want to use it? Or if an herbal concoction was able to stimulate the production of HGH wouldn't we all want it?
I am now and will always be anti-steroids in sports for performance enhancement.
Why is it that the Olympics have tougher testing than our professional sports? The Olympics are by no means amatuer sports competition as it once was.
FBM......
WillieBo, steroids and "any" illegal substances WERE banned by baseball way before 2002. Fay Vincent sent a memo to all MLB clubs in 1991. The confusion for a lot of people is that MLB was not able to "test" players for steoids until 2002, but they were "banned" in 1991.
Faye Vincent Banned Steroids in 1991 Memo
Actual image of Vincent memo
Page 2, First Paragraph.
He's a liar and a cheat, and if I could prove he as much stole a piece of gum from a store, he'd be all three, a liar, a cheat, and a thief. What a discrace. Having ESPN follow him to his fathers grave so he could cry about the way he's being treated.... pathetic.
Faye Vincent Banned Steroids in 1991 Memo
Actual image of Vincent memo
Page 2, First Paragraph.
He's a liar and a cheat, and if I could prove he as much stole a piece of gum from a store, he'd be all three, a liar, a cheat, and a thief. What a discrace. Having ESPN follow him to his fathers grave so he could cry about the way he's being treated.... pathetic.
Glove Man,
Good post.
Has anyone read the article from ESPN magazine
(November 21 issue). It is a chronicle of the rise of steroid and drug use among players.
Has anyone read teh book (forgotauthor) where he interviewed over 500 people who knew BB at one time in his life? There's a except from one of his team mom's (or was it a den mother)who obviously knew him pretty well and took care of him over the years.
When asked about her he stated he never met her.
The author told numerous stories like this one of people he knew well over the years and his response was, "he never met them".
At least he keeps his stories straight, he doesn't remember much, got to give him credit for that!
Do steroids affect ones memory? Just curious.
Good post.
Has anyone read the article from ESPN magazine
(November 21 issue). It is a chronicle of the rise of steroid and drug use among players.
Has anyone read teh book (forgotauthor) where he interviewed over 500 people who knew BB at one time in his life? There's a except from one of his team mom's (or was it a den mother)who obviously knew him pretty well and took care of him over the years.
When asked about her he stated he never met her.
The author told numerous stories like this one of people he knew well over the years and his response was, "he never met them".
At least he keeps his stories straight, he doesn't remember much, got to give him credit for that!
Do steroids affect ones memory? Just curious.
Just to touch on a few things here...
So what if the value doubles. Who cares if the guy wants to keep it or sell it. If the guy made $300 from the ball, would Barroid be upset because he didn't get his licensing cut from the autograph? Catching the ball doesn't make him a "mope", neither does asking for an autograph. He signed the release for Barroid's "reality show". The least Barroid could do was scribble a signature on the ball.
Some people take enough "shots" at others that they deserve to receive them back.."Nuff said!!
I agree, it shouldn't matter on principle whether the guy is an active duty serviceman, a lawyer, or a garbageman. However, since we are in the middle of a war, and since the military in general has made it possible for guys like Barroid to live the life he leads, it would seem to be common courtesy to sign a baseball. The guy didn't ask for 4 season tickets, a game used uniform, and a few gamer bats..he wanted one ball signed.
True-he hasn't been convicted. He has admitted taking steroids..and offered up the lame excuse that he had no idea what they were, when he's been quoted in the past that his body is a "temple", and he wouldn't put unknown substances in his "temple". There's Grand Jury testimony of exactly what he took, when he took it, and what cities it was delivered to. He hasn't disputed ANY of the evidence against him, he's only questioned how the reporters got the now public testimony before it was released. He hasn't been convicted, but only because there hasn't been a trial. He was given immunity in the Balco case in exchange for truthful testimony. If his pompous testimony and fudging of facts is found to be grounds for a perjury indictment, then he may well have to worry about conviction.
TPM, I think I read that same story. One reporter had interviewed a former college teammate of Barry's, then asked Barry about the teammate. Barry said he didn't know the guy, had never been his teammate, and had never heard of him before. The kicker was, the teammate had been in Barry's wedding, and had pictures of him in the wedding party. Maybe Barry is just a pathological liar...
quote:I can't believe everyone is being "so stupid" when it comes to the reason why Bonds didn't sign the ball.
It is really very simple: The value DOUBLES with his signature on it.
Dare I say this mope that has the ball had no intention of keeping it?
I expect it to be on ebay or auctioned off somewhere in the next few weeks.
So what if the value doubles. Who cares if the guy wants to keep it or sell it. If the guy made $300 from the ball, would Barroid be upset because he didn't get his licensing cut from the autograph? Catching the ball doesn't make him a "mope", neither does asking for an autograph. He signed the release for Barroid's "reality show". The least Barroid could do was scribble a signature on the ball.
quote:What BEEN said was a general statement--the "mental midget" term was a direct "shot"
'Nuff said !!!!
Some people take enough "shots" at others that they deserve to receive them back.."Nuff said!!
quote:The problem that I have is the media playing up the fact that he's in the military...as if that should have anything to do with his getting the ball signed.
I agree, it shouldn't matter on principle whether the guy is an active duty serviceman, a lawyer, or a garbageman. However, since we are in the middle of a war, and since the military in general has made it possible for guys like Barroid to live the life he leads, it would seem to be common courtesy to sign a baseball. The guy didn't ask for 4 season tickets, a game used uniform, and a few gamer bats..he wanted one ball signed.
quote:You continue to miss the point-- the guy you called a cheater has not been convicted of anything---you and those others thinking as you do might want to vist the Foxsports website---they have two articles on Bonds--one on why not to root for him and another on why you should-- makes some great reading, I am with the guy saying root for him
True-he hasn't been convicted. He has admitted taking steroids..and offered up the lame excuse that he had no idea what they were, when he's been quoted in the past that his body is a "temple", and he wouldn't put unknown substances in his "temple". There's Grand Jury testimony of exactly what he took, when he took it, and what cities it was delivered to. He hasn't disputed ANY of the evidence against him, he's only questioned how the reporters got the now public testimony before it was released. He hasn't been convicted, but only because there hasn't been a trial. He was given immunity in the Balco case in exchange for truthful testimony. If his pompous testimony and fudging of facts is found to be grounds for a perjury indictment, then he may well have to worry about conviction.
quote:Has anyone read teh book (forgotauthor) where he interviewed over 500 people who knew BB at one time in his life? There's a except from one of his team mom's (or was it a den mother)who obviously knew him pretty well and took care of him over the years.
When asked about her he stated he never met her.
The author told numerous stories like this one of people he knew well over the years and his response was, "he never met them".
At least he keeps his stories straight, he doesn't remember much, got to give him credit for that!
TPM, I think I read that same story. One reporter had interviewed a former college teammate of Barry's, then asked Barry about the teammate. Barry said he didn't know the guy, had never been his teammate, and had never heard of him before. The kicker was, the teammate had been in Barry's wedding, and had pictures of him in the wedding party. Maybe Barry is just a pathological liar...
I wonder if he remembers that slim Latin guy he played with that also suddenly bulked up.
Glove Man,
The following link has been posted here before, but perhaps you didn't see it. The link is to an interview with Fay Vincent, in which he is asked about the memo. You can read the question and his response near the end of the interview.
Please read it; you'll see that in fact MLB baseball player were not covered by this memo, and in reality, there was no prohibition against players using steroids (or cocaine, which Vincent says the memo was aimed at.) A partial quote from the interview:
" And, I think it was really our attempt to be on record, if this was our universe, if we controlled the whole thing, this is what we would do. And we did it, but we did it only for the people that were not covered by the Collective Bargaining Agreement "
There is plenty to dislike about baseball's Steroid Era, but that doesn't justify ESPN's disregard of the actual facts.
http://www.businessofbaseball.com/vincent_interview.htm
The following link has been posted here before, but perhaps you didn't see it. The link is to an interview with Fay Vincent, in which he is asked about the memo. You can read the question and his response near the end of the interview.
Please read it; you'll see that in fact MLB baseball player were not covered by this memo, and in reality, there was no prohibition against players using steroids (or cocaine, which Vincent says the memo was aimed at.) A partial quote from the interview:
" And, I think it was really our attempt to be on record, if this was our universe, if we controlled the whole thing, this is what we would do. And we did it, but we did it only for the people that were not covered by the Collective Bargaining Agreement "
There is plenty to dislike about baseball's Steroid Era, but that doesn't justify ESPN's disregard of the actual facts.
http://www.businessofbaseball.com/vincent_interview.htm
What the memo says, and what Vincent later said in the interview, is two completely different things.
The memo clearly applies to MLB players, and it clearly applies to steroid use.
MLB's problem was that they issued the directive, then apparently didn't have it cleared with the union on testing.
The fact that they didn't enforce the policy doesn't change the fact that A)the policy made steroid use illegal, and B)unauthorized steroid use was also made a Federal Offense in 1991.
Who's at fault?Owners...coaches...trainers...players...fans..weall share in the blame.
The memo clearly applies to MLB players, and it clearly applies to steroid use.
MLB's problem was that they issued the directive, then apparently didn't have it cleared with the union on testing.
The fact that they didn't enforce the policy doesn't change the fact that A)the policy made steroid use illegal, and B)unauthorized steroid use was also made a Federal Offense in 1991.
Who's at fault?Owners...coaches...trainers...players...fans..weall share in the blame.
"The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League
players or personnel is strictly prohibited."
What Vincent forgot to put in the Memo....Except of course, those players who are members
of the Union. They are free to use any illegal drugs they so desire because we cannot enforce anything anyway. Even though illegal drugs are against the law, you Union guys
will be exempt from this directive as well as all local, state, and federal laws regarding illegal drug use. This memo just applies to......everyone except players, I guess.
Riiggghhhht!!!
What is the definition of IS???
players or personnel is strictly prohibited."
What Vincent forgot to put in the Memo....Except of course, those players who are members
of the Union. They are free to use any illegal drugs they so desire because we cannot enforce anything anyway. Even though illegal drugs are against the law, you Union guys
will be exempt from this directive as well as all local, state, and federal laws regarding illegal drug use. This memo just applies to......everyone except players, I guess.
Riiggghhhht!!!
What is the definition of IS???
To All Respondees
In the realm of serfs the king uses inane legalities to control and confiscate of that which is politically inferior...the more things change the more they are the same.
Major League Baseball had a period where all of its icons were based upon the perception of the superiority of the white community. As such the only thing that was correct about its leagacy is the perception not the reality.
Why, had the true nature and essence of this country been represented ethnically across the board, from the beginning I suspect the results would have looked more like the recent World Baseball Classic outcome.
What I see here and incessantly read is that continued arrogance...if there is an asterisk to places by anyones name in the Hall Of Fame it should along side all those players that played in the cacooned world of self-delusion that they were the best to ever play, when half of this country's potential players weren't even represented.
Babe Ruth should have an asterisk placed along side his name...boozer, philanderer, and illegal substance abuser...and finally an icon of the segregationist of this country
That's the truth, you may not like it...but there it is.
That legacy has been there to see...just not to admit.
In the realm of serfs the king uses inane legalities to control and confiscate of that which is politically inferior...the more things change the more they are the same.
Major League Baseball had a period where all of its icons were based upon the perception of the superiority of the white community. As such the only thing that was correct about its leagacy is the perception not the reality.
Why, had the true nature and essence of this country been represented ethnically across the board, from the beginning I suspect the results would have looked more like the recent World Baseball Classic outcome.
What I see here and incessantly read is that continued arrogance...if there is an asterisk to places by anyones name in the Hall Of Fame it should along side all those players that played in the cacooned world of self-delusion that they were the best to ever play, when half of this country's potential players weren't even represented.
Babe Ruth should have an asterisk placed along side his name...boozer, philanderer, and illegal substance abuser...and finally an icon of the segregationist of this country
That's the truth, you may not like it...but there it is.
That legacy has been there to see...just not to admit.
A New Video Game --Serfs and Kings
Thanx RR for the concept
Thanx RR for the concept
TRhit
Nope, I just am more a realist about what the hype about Ruth.
He was a fat, slow, white guy that never faced the best...
Nope, I just am more a realist about what the hype about Ruth.
He was a fat, slow, white guy that never faced the best...
And Barry Bonds never faced Sandy Koufax-is there a point here??
Abner Rodriguez probably invented baseball too.
I'm through with this nonsense.
Abner Rodriguez probably invented baseball too.
I'm through with this nonsense.
Moc1 ...
Agree with you ref being thru with the nonsense, and I will probably rue the decision to make additional comments but I have sat back and watched too many times as Ramrod has highjacked (or is that confiscated?) threads and turned them into his own personal soapbox platform for espousing his tired and overstated opinions that all us white folks are racists, that somehow the sins of 'our' fathers should be continually restated and rehashed to justify his warped attempt to find racism in all things. I am not denying that racism was a fact of life, or that some people are still racist in their thinking and actions. But to continually imply that racism is somehow responsible for all the inequities in our society denigrates the reality that it was responsible for some pretty heinous actions. I will even go to the length of saying that there was institutionalized racism in our country in the past, but I am tired of hearing how it has supposedly continued and is the cause of all differences between the races.
Personally, my family never ruled over serfs ... we were too poor for that ... and many of us have endured some pretty bad cr*p in our lives, but we do not let it rule our very existence.
I would suggest that this thread be locked ... and not because I have negative feelings towards Bonds etc but because it seems we can never enjoy a good 'debate' on this site when everything Ramrod reads is turned to a racial issue and he feels the need to remind us all of that. Last time I looked, there were players who are not African-American who have used illegal performance enhancing substances and that, I am sure, had nothing to do with the misperceived 'residue' of racial segregation that Ramrod sees in everything.
To borrow a phrase from some other comments here ... "'nuff said."
Agree with you ref being thru with the nonsense, and I will probably rue the decision to make additional comments but I have sat back and watched too many times as Ramrod has highjacked (or is that confiscated?) threads and turned them into his own personal soapbox platform for espousing his tired and overstated opinions that all us white folks are racists, that somehow the sins of 'our' fathers should be continually restated and rehashed to justify his warped attempt to find racism in all things. I am not denying that racism was a fact of life, or that some people are still racist in their thinking and actions. But to continually imply that racism is somehow responsible for all the inequities in our society denigrates the reality that it was responsible for some pretty heinous actions. I will even go to the length of saying that there was institutionalized racism in our country in the past, but I am tired of hearing how it has supposedly continued and is the cause of all differences between the races.
Personally, my family never ruled over serfs ... we were too poor for that ... and many of us have endured some pretty bad cr*p in our lives, but we do not let it rule our very existence.
I would suggest that this thread be locked ... and not because I have negative feelings towards Bonds etc but because it seems we can never enjoy a good 'debate' on this site when everything Ramrod reads is turned to a racial issue and he feels the need to remind us all of that. Last time I looked, there were players who are not African-American who have used illegal performance enhancing substances and that, I am sure, had nothing to do with the misperceived 'residue' of racial segregation that Ramrod sees in everything.
To borrow a phrase from some other comments here ... "'nuff said."
MOC1, Ole Abner invented beisbol. 
The Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown has a life size wax figure of Babe Ruth. It was from his early days in the Major Leagues. He was not fat, but he did look like John Henry “The Steel Driving Man”. Without all the booze, hotdogs, and wild ways, Babe Ruth might have hit a 1,000 home runs. The question here is… How many would Barry have hit without the illegal substances? We will never know!!!! But most people would say less than what he has hit.
RR, brings up a very good point. Ruth did not compete against many of the greatest players. There were no black players or Latin players in MLB at the time. We all know that Black players and Latin’s have had a big impact on baseball. Of course, back in those days, baseball did not lose so many great athletes to other sports, like it is now days.
Knowing all the above, can’t race be left out of the argument? It is what it is, we can’t change history. Those who are on here who hate Bonds and those on here who love him, have never once brought up race… Until now! No one is even considering his skin color. Mark MacGwire is white and if he were still active chasing Hank Aaron’s record, people of all colors would be all over him. This is not a race thing! This is about STEROIDS!
Barry Bonds is a great player, so was Babe Ruth. Hank Aaron was great, Ted Williams was great, There’s been many great baseball players, IMO Willie Mays was the greatest.
Babe Ruth just happens to be the next number (714), so he is the hot topic. Soon there will be only Hank Aaron ahead of Barry. Does anyone think things will lighten up because there are no more “White Guys” to chase. I don’t think so!
RR, brings up a very good point. Ruth did not compete against many of the greatest players. There were no black players or Latin players in MLB at the time. We all know that Black players and Latin’s have had a big impact on baseball. Of course, back in those days, baseball did not lose so many great athletes to other sports, like it is now days.
Knowing all the above, can’t race be left out of the argument? It is what it is, we can’t change history. Those who are on here who hate Bonds and those on here who love him, have never once brought up race… Until now! No one is even considering his skin color. Mark MacGwire is white and if he were still active chasing Hank Aaron’s record, people of all colors would be all over him. This is not a race thing! This is about STEROIDS!
Barry Bonds is a great player, so was Babe Ruth. Hank Aaron was great, Ted Williams was great, There’s been many great baseball players, IMO Willie Mays was the greatest.
Babe Ruth just happens to be the next number (714), so he is the hot topic. Soon there will be only Hank Aaron ahead of Barry. Does anyone think things will lighten up because there are no more “White Guys” to chase. I don’t think so!
Ramrod, I thought you were more Mature than that. Living in Cali. with such a diverse society, that you would of grown out of that stage in your life.
You do go to college correct?
You can't bring up the race card every time it suit's you.
It does not solve are serve any purpose.
It's just used for an excuse for Failure, the White Guy did it to me??
We can't change History, and were talking thousand's of year's of History. Were People's of all different background's and Races were Oppressed.
All we can do is look to the Future.
Do you Agree? the EH
You do go to college correct?
You can't bring up the race card every time it suit's you.
It does not solve are serve any purpose.
It's just used for an excuse for Failure, the White Guy did it to me??
We can't change History, and were talking thousand's of year's of History. Were People's of all different background's and Races were Oppressed.
All we can do is look to the Future.
Do you Agree? the EH
There have been Latin players in the MLB since the 19th Century. Actually, some light-skinned Black players not of Hispanic origin would call themselves Latin in order to play.
Many players of many backgrounds have had to cope with difficult circumstances.
Many players of many backgrounds have had to cope with difficult circumstances.
I cannot understand how anyone can compare Ruth to Bonds. We don't compare record holding track stars, weightlifters, and any other sports that have a history of benchmarks because the human engine has changed over the years. Those changes, whether it be due to improvements in equipment, facilities, workout regimes, advancements in medicine, diet, or drugs, have made records nothing more than a number, that should do nothing more than remind us of the history of that sport.
That Ramrod is a realist.
That Ramrod is a realist.
Everyone...thanks for making my point.
It's all about who's ox is being gored.
You see, for months on end there has been a cacophony of negative diatribes and verbal assaults against this "ballplayer" and "human being" a man named Barry Bonds.
Now after just a few post that sheds a slightly different flavor of perception against the "man" and ball player called Babe Ruth one can attest to the sycophantic loyalty to a perceptioon of a "flawed charicature of a deity" that is no more deserving than that of a "black man" with flaws...Barry Bonds.
You made my point.
It's all about who's ox is being gored.
You see, for months on end there has been a cacophony of negative diatribes and verbal assaults against this "ballplayer" and "human being" a man named Barry Bonds.
Now after just a few post that sheds a slightly different flavor of perception against the "man" and ball player called Babe Ruth one can attest to the sycophantic loyalty to a perceptioon of a "flawed charicature of a deity" that is no more deserving than that of a "black man" with flaws...Barry Bonds.
You made my point.
FBM....I agree whole heartedly with your last post, except for locking the thread.
Think as long as we remain civil, we should be able to express ourselves.....right or wrong.
Ramrod.....I always start out being upset with you....your attitude and silly big words...but then you go and post like you just did....and I end up feeling badly for you. Know you do not want my sympathies.....but RR....racism is a disease.....and you have it too.....sorry.
PG.....you said it so well.....it is about steroids.....
Think as long as we remain civil, we should be able to express ourselves.....right or wrong.
Ramrod.....I always start out being upset with you....your attitude and silly big words...but then you go and post like you just did....and I end up feeling badly for you. Know you do not want my sympathies.....but RR....racism is a disease.....and you have it too.....sorry.
PG.....you said it so well.....it is about steroids.....
Ramrod,
I think my hillbilly WI makeup is making me not understand where you're coming from. Please for the sake of us that are not on the same plane, bring it down to our level.
I think my hillbilly WI makeup is making me not understand where you're coming from. Please for the sake of us that are not on the same plane, bring it down to our level.
rz1
Nothing really complex, other than when I respond using verbage to obfuscate my non-sequitor answers to the underlying snootiness and arrogance in some of the answers I get.
But here it is...
Barry Bonds is no more, nor is he any less deserving of his fame than Babe Ruth based upon what he has done "on the field" than is Babe Ruth.
The perception of his performance would not have been tainted any less at this juncture if there was nothing to hold him suspiciously as one of those "black cheating" types.
Apparently none of you are willing to remember what Hank Aaron went through as a "Black Ballplayer", even worse than what Barry has put up with...and Aaron was not suspected of taking any drugs, at all....but he was accused of being a wife beater and abuser, though no one could attest to any evidence of such a thing. But "black men" are notoriously known as wife beaters, so he was labeled with the stereo-typical garbage.
All of this effort by those same forces have raised their ugly heads to perserve the notion of the superiority of the "whiteman" in baseball.
I am simply saying, what a crock of pooh-pooh.
Nothing really complex, other than when I respond using verbage to obfuscate my non-sequitor answers to the underlying snootiness and arrogance in some of the answers I get.
But here it is...
Barry Bonds is no more, nor is he any less deserving of his fame than Babe Ruth based upon what he has done "on the field" than is Babe Ruth.
The perception of his performance would not have been tainted any less at this juncture if there was nothing to hold him suspiciously as one of those "black cheating" types.
Apparently none of you are willing to remember what Hank Aaron went through as a "Black Ballplayer", even worse than what Barry has put up with...and Aaron was not suspected of taking any drugs, at all....but he was accused of being a wife beater and abuser, though no one could attest to any evidence of such a thing. But "black men" are notoriously known as wife beaters, so he was labeled with the stereo-typical garbage.
All of this effort by those same forces have raised their ugly heads to perserve the notion of the superiority of the "whiteman" in baseball.
I am simply saying, what a crock of pooh-pooh.
I can't believe I am getting in on this one but what the heck 
I have no qualms about saying Babe Ruth is the greatest player of all time - warts and all.
To make my point, all Barry (or any other player) has to do after surpassing his homerun record is:
1) Learn how to pitch; and
2) Win about 20 games per year for the next five years
I have no qualms about saying Babe Ruth is the greatest player of all time - warts and all.
To make my point, all Barry (or any other player) has to do after surpassing his homerun record is:
1) Learn how to pitch; and
2) Win about 20 games per year for the next five years
Cleve
Ruth pales in comparison to Barry's numbers as a 5 tool player...
If I was selecting a team and wanted the one impact player that could change the fate of a game it wouldn't be Ruth.
Ruth wouldn't qualify as a pitcher now, and he wouldn't get me the extra bag to be in scoring position at any juncture in a game.
Ruth had limited overall value...wouldn't get the money a Barry Bonds get...that I'm 100% sure of.
Ruth pales in comparison to Barry's numbers as a 5 tool player...
If I was selecting a team and wanted the one impact player that could change the fate of a game it wouldn't be Ruth.
Ruth wouldn't qualify as a pitcher now, and he wouldn't get me the extra bag to be in scoring position at any juncture in a game.
Ruth had limited overall value...wouldn't get the money a Barry Bonds get...that I'm 100% sure of.
quote:Ruth pales in comparison to Barry's numbers as a 5 tool player...
I dispute the 5 tool player as well. In Pittsburgh, on artificial surface, a hard line drive was hit to left in the '91 playoffs versus the Braves. Syd Bream on one leg (and arguably the slowest player in baseball that year) beat Bonds' throw to the plate.
Cleve
I suspect Ruth would have fielded the ball after it richocheted off the wall, by then Bream would have walked home...give me a break.
I suspect Ruth would have fielded the ball after it richocheted off the wall, by then Bream would have walked home...give me a break.
RR, step away from the thesaurus and toward a dictionary. The misuse of words obfuscates your meaning. (OK, I did that on purpose ). Further, the use of quotation marks indicates that you are using the words in an ironic sense. Is Bonds not a black man and a ballplayer?
You do a lot better when you write naturally.
Bonds is being booed and vilified because of his own actions. Aaron was attacked solely because of the color of his skin. Big difference.
And does anyone recall that Ruth had some problems because some people suspected he was part black?
Any comparisons of players from radically different eras (while fun) are going to be inexact. None of us saw Ruth play in person (with the possible exception of TR) Which Ruth? The young one who pitched, or the bloated one from the newsreels? Was it more taxing to play a doubleheader in July in a wool uniform after a 14 hour train ride or to face four fresh, better trained and developed pitchers in the same game?
). Further, the use of quotation marks indicates that you are using the words in an ironic sense. Is Bonds not a black man and a ballplayer?You do a lot better when you write naturally.
Bonds is being booed and vilified because of his own actions. Aaron was attacked solely because of the color of his skin. Big difference.
And does anyone recall that Ruth had some problems because some people suspected he was part black?
Any comparisons of players from radically different eras (while fun) are going to be inexact. None of us saw Ruth play in person (with the possible exception of TR
) Which Ruth? The young one who pitched, or the bloated one from the newsreels? Was it more taxing to play a doubleheader in July in a wool uniform after a 14 hour train ride or to face four fresh, better trained and developed pitchers in the same game?quote:All of this effort by those same forces have raised their ugly heads to perserve the notion of the superiority of the "whiteman" in baseball
RR, I wonder if you would make comments like this if you were aware of the history involving Don Denkinger and his call in the 1985 World Series. Ugliness, death threats, and the like can have nothing to do with the color of the skin, especially in some of its most malignant forms.
Whether your view has substance or not is likely to be tested soon. With McGuire being a candidate for the HOF, and with his performance before Congress, the issue of whether "this" is race related or related to performance on the field being enhanced by illegal substances may well be a clear focal point of discussion.
To make my point crystal clear, I think McGuire used and cheated. I think Giambi used and cheated. I think Bonds used and cheated. I think each was wrong for the decisions they made, not because of the color of their skin. For one, I hope your views and postings leaves you seriously disappointed, to the extent I understand the things you are posting
.
infielddad......don't....mention.....the......name....Denkinger.....
(Unless, of course, it's as a verb, as in the sentence "Oh, man, he really Denkingered that call!)
(Unless, of course, it's as a verb, as in the sentence "Oh, man, he really Denkingered that call!)