Roger Clemens

"Source says information on Clemens will be in Mitchell's report."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153129

Is anyone really suprised by this? IMO his first year of "rocket fuel" was with the Jays...

Clemen's name has been mentioned in this mess for some time now. He and his buddy Pettite. The guys who have attempted to prolong their careers beyond a reasonable point and have put up unbelievable numbers in the process should be assumed to be guilty of taken the stuff in the public's eye. Guilty until proven innocent is one way of the public policing this situation until the union agrees to very thorough testing procedures.

Good point deemax. Remember when CLemens painted his face and had the melt down on the mound? Roid rage?

So the report comes out, names/accuses a bunch of players. Some players get suspended, beat up in the press..etc.. ESPN will be on fire tonight!!
So what will change ?
Is MLB going to change testing methods, increase penalties ?
Will anything change ?
If some 50-60 players have taken steroids according to the report, what does that say about the current testing procedures?

I'm not a big Arod fan, but I really hope he is not on the list.

I don't think anybody's going to get suspended by being named in this report...
I also don't think the young kids are going to be shocked. Kids today are jaded to this type of thing, it won't bother them a bit. We parents, however, will have different feelings about it. I got to admit, when I heard Clemens' name this morning it really bothered me... will the Rocket now get all the hate that Barry has???

quote:

Originally posted by igball:
Good point deemax. Remember when CLemens painted his face and had the melt down on the mound? Roid rage?

Roid Rage??

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
will the Rocket now get all the hate that Barry has???

Doubt it, he wasn't as universally thought of as a complete waste of humanity the way Bonds is.

Under similar circumstances to Bonds, Raffy wasn't subjected to the same treatment.

He should give back all 7 Cy Young trophies.

He's the biggest "phony" in the baseball world.

His "holier than thou" attitude has caught up to him.

Here we go again with conjecture===lets see what the report says---I heard the same rumors about Clemens three years ago at least---but they were RUMORS !!!

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7556534?MSNHPHMA Report: Clemens' name in steroids report

Steroid use may someday stop in MLB but the entire system continues to be broke. As long as scouts and coaches continue to insist that pitchers be able to throw in the upper 90s or hitters be able to hit 50 HRs in order to considered a legitimate prospect, it will remain broke. Developing a testing policy isn't going to do anything until the mind-set changes. Players will continue to try to figure ways around detection if they're continually told, "You need to get bigger".

There's some very influential people that log on to this website and I hope someone is listening. Nothing will change if we just address the steroid problem. Just figure out another way to get the desired results.

We all know in our own minds who has and hasn't of the big names, one I hope we don't see is Arod, I'm kinda thinking they'll keep his name out of it and try to keep him clean, since he's probably the successor to Bond's homerun record?

you mean A-Roid???? if he's on the list, his HR's should all be removed from the books.

By the way RYNO---how do you spell Roger?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
By the way RYNO---how do you spell Roger?

Come on TR, isn't it obvious he spells it Rodger?

this is a sad day for baseball, for sports and for society and possibly saddest for those who place these clowns on a (undeserved) pedestal and won't accept that their heroes have "fleet of clay".

bonds is just old news and to anyone paying attention, so is clemens and too many others.

When it walks and quacks like a duck, it usually is a duck. When a human being over 40 suddenly has the body changes and puts on physical performance previously unseen in the human experience....that's that same duck quacking again. MLB, the player's union and all those who should care have just looked the other way.

But all is not lost. Just as nothing was done in the amphetamine generation or the cocaine generation, this too will pass and it'll be whatever new scheme/scam that can be dreamed up.

I believe Pete Rose once said (and if not him it is now apparently the mantra of professional sports), "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'. It's what these guys do and will continue to do and will lie about it every time.

BTW, i think it is spelled 'roidger

quote:

By the way RYNO---how do you spell Roger?

TRhit

So he forgot the I after the O. It's ROIDger

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
He should give back all 7 Cy Young trophies.

He's the biggest "phony" in the baseball world.

His "holier than thou" attitude has caught up to him.

Been...

You're kidding, right?

Interesting that some people try to discredit/shoot the messanger.
If it wasn't for investigatve reporters 99% of the garbage that goes on in the world would be swept under the carpet.

WOW TRhit are you kidding me go back and look at some of the spelling on your own posts. And then go take your Medication.

As far as the report and the players named. There is an opportunity to clean up the sport for the future player to understand the rules and the penalties. So in the name of Shoeless Joe Jackson.....kick them all out..... forget the HOF keep the records but explain the story and let history dictate the legacy...............For as of right now it is all about the money and since owners can't police themselves then the penalty should dictate the outcome............Now lets here how everyone else feels about this

I read the report on Clemens. It appears he started steroids when he was with the Jays. I figured this report would be a bunch of retired guys and no names. The name players: Clemens is done, Petitte is near the end, Tejada is on the downside and Gagne is washed up. The analysis in the report may be more important than the names. If I ever have trouble sleeping I may read the 409 pages.

It's time for the player's association to comply in every way possible or nothing will change. Objecting to testing is an admission of not wanting to stop the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:
Is anyone really suprised by this? IMO his first year of "rocket fuel" was with the Jays...

Exactly. The Jays were the only team to even offer him a contract with big bucks. He then had a "hand shake" deal to be traded to the team of his choice if he so desired. A give me the money, so I can juice my career. Then go to a winning team, so I can win a World Series.

He has always seeked self glorification. He was not a "clubhouse" guy with the Red Sox for this same reason. He was not a "clubhouse" guy with the Blue Jays. He became a media darling for the New York press, because he could rub it in the face of the Red Sox. Clemens began to revel in his self glory and hasn't stopped since.

Rogatien? Twain?

Right on point, Jimi.

i haven't thought well of clemens since he left the sox. but there are quite a few pitchers on that list,and they don't have the cy awards? lots of hitters that never broke 50 hr a year. either the steroids don't work or you gotta have performance before you can enhance it? lots to think about.

Clemens had 196 wins when he left the Sox. He probably would have got to 250 regardless. The big question is how did steroids aid his rehabiliation. He was coming off three consecutive years of arm problems with the Sox when he got it all together with the Jays.

Like Bonds, Clemens was headed for the HOF regardless of enhancements. But I'll bet they get the McGwire treatment the first time they come up for vote.

That list only have names of players with evidence of buying, or using roids or HGH. The real list of users is as big as the Empire State building. So we can not figure that anybody that is not in this list is clean.

Racab,
Except my favorite players of course. I figure we all get to suspend belief a little bit if our favorites aren't on the list while realizing that the list really is just the tip of the iceberg.

Dad04, referring to your clips of Clemons throwing the bat. Was he throwing it because he was on 'roids, or was Piazza not responding/retaliating because he wasn't? I know that some people in the game were surprised that Piazza's name wasn't included.

I'd guess a lot of names that they were pretty sure of were not included because they didn't have the right type of evidence. Being on the list isn't absolute proof of guilt, but my guess is they had a lot more evidence that wasn't published on the people on the list. Does it mean that evidence, if it exists, was wrong? No, just that it would have opened them up to legal action. BTW, despite the claims by Clemens lawyer they were very fair in their description of what evidence they did and didn't have against Clemens and outlined where there were possible problems with it.

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
He should give back all 7 Cy Young trophies.

He's the biggest "phony" in the baseball world.

His "holier than thou" attitude has caught up to him.

So you think Roger should give back all of his Cy Youngs, but when it comes to Barroid you say, "You go, Barry"...and back him 100%?

Kind of hypocritical, don't you think?

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
Racab,
Except my favorite players of course. I figure we all get to suspend belief a little bit if our favorites aren't on the list while realizing that the list really is just the tip of the iceberg.

Exactly. This is by no means a total list of all of the guilty players..it is, like you say, just the tip of the iceberg.

There's a lot of players breathing a deep sigh of relief right now that they aren't on the list.

the real shocking point of the mitchell report is the amount of hs players using the stuff. i think we need to put aside our hero worship of all these major league players at least until their union agrees to very stringent testing procedures. our children's lives may be at stake.

quote:

Originally posted by igball:
the real shocking point of the mitchell report is the amount of hs players using the stuff. i think we need to put aside our hero worship of all these major league players at least until their union agrees to very stringent testing procedures. our children's lives may be at stake.

I agree that drugs, steroids, and alcohol is a problem in high school and college (really bad), but how does the Mitchell report have any clue of what is happening there if his focus in on MLB and he only has part of that story?

I guess I am really disappointed in what small amount of facts they were able to uncover and how many wholes are in the findings.

There you go, 2 seamer...stalking me again.

---------

The report is a JOKE.

No subpoena power. No penalty for lying to an investigator. Major league players not cooperating because of the Union.

The Wisconsin "no hair on his....." Commish will do nothing substantive.

$20 million dollar waste of time.

Pardon my cynicism, but the more I think about it the more I believe this investigation is nothing but a CYA for Selig's legacy as commissioner. It will soon be back to "let's play ball and make some money." Look how much MLB franchises increased in value during this "horrible" era of the game.

they had so little facts because the players and their union blocked every attempt to get information. maybe we should stop protecting the users by attacking those who are at least trying to do something about the problem. find fault with the union that instructed its members not to cooperate and in affect stone wall it. the union has turned into a drug users cabal and its members steriod use actually protects them from outside (ie. drug free) competittion.
i don't buy the idea that massive steroid abuse on the high school level compares in any way to alcohol and other recreational drugs. steroids are being used soley to gain entrance into a professional society- namely professional sports. if there was a strong steriod testing policy in professional sports, use of it amoung the young would go away.