I don't think there's a double standard -- it's not the same naming HS kids. And I think Natural's point was well-taken, not that I have a huge problem with you not naming names. The names have been named by a number of sources.
Someone mentioned the use of amphetamine, which aren't discussed much when this subject comes up. I too have heard that they are prevalent. Have those drugs become "acceptable" (relatively speaking)......like pot did in the NBA?
quote:Originally posted by Panther Dad:
I don't think there's a double standard -- it's not the same naming HS kids. And I think Natural's point was well-taken, not that I have a huge problem with you not naming names. The names have been named by a number of sources.
Maybe you don't think there's a double standard and maybe you don't think it's the same naming HS kids on this board.
But a quote below is stated........
quote:"it is simply that reluctance to name names is a symptom of the disease that has infected our culture."
I can certainly agree.
But I also apply that to what I believe is the demise of amatuer baseball as we know it too.
For years I've argued this and have let up understanding my opinions have gone on to deaf ears.
"But it's a disease that has infected our culture" in my opinion.
Naming players, parents, and coaches would create a possible cure.
As long as we keep our heads in the sand, problems will remain.
It's only when you face things head on that results will be evident.
Minors have had their identities with held as standard practice in regards to criminal actions for as long as I can remember. Their usage, although undeniably wrong and punishable, does not equate with a public figure, who is an adult making millions, doing the same thing. What is more newsworthy: a 16 year old 140 pound 2Bman from the piney woods of East Tx. taking steroids or Andy Pettite and Roger Clemens, national role models, taking steroids?
First of all, he is innocent until proven guilty. I also hate the thought of the politicians getting involved in this, it is baseball's problem to clean it up, and I think it has to start with the players that DON'T use them, and having some absolute rules and punishment (out of baseball) in order to work.
The business of baseball is hurting the sport of baseball, and personally, I am a fan of the game. I want to see them play with the best of their God-given abilities, not the "enhanced" version (at whatever level, T-ball through Pro). The winning and losing should take care of itself.
My thoughts: He is probably guilty of using them. And for me that is really sad, because I don't think he needed them to continue to compete, he had all the "stuff" he needed.
The business of baseball is hurting the sport of baseball, and personally, I am a fan of the game. I want to see them play with the best of their God-given abilities, not the "enhanced" version (at whatever level, T-ball through Pro). The winning and losing should take care of itself.
My thoughts: He is probably guilty of using them. And for me that is really sad, because I don't think he needed them to continue to compete, he had all the "stuff" he needed.
Please forgive my previous post.....I certainly don't mean to imply there are T-ballers on the "juice", unless it is grape juice. 
I was probably over-zealous in my attempt to make a point, and as I re-read my post, it was in poor taste.
Sorry
I was probably over-zealous in my attempt to make a point, and as I re-read my post, it was in poor taste.
Sorry
quote:What is more newsworthy: a 16 year old 140 pound 2Bman from the piney woods of East Tx. taking steroids or Andy Pettite and Roger Clemens, national role models, taking steroids?
I'll ask you this.......
What is more wrong?
Indisputably it is more wrong for an adult. Our entire legal system is structured as such. If the so called "heroes" of the game do not do it then the kids will hopefully emulate that. Like it or not, if you are a pro athlete then you are a role model. The kids will mimic your wardrobe, your swing, and, sadly enough in these cases, they will mimic your illegal attempts to get better.
quote:Originally posted by 20's old man:
Indisputably it is more wrong for an adult. Our entire legal system is structured as such. If the so called "heroes" of the game do not do it then the kids will hopefully emulate that. Like it or not, if you are a pro athlete then you are a role model. The kids will mimic your wardrobe, your swing, and, sadly enough in these cases, they will mimic your illegal attempts to get better.
Although I do not disagree with the majority of your statement...........
I can't see how anyone can justify that it would be more wrongful for an adult to use illegal drugs than a minor.
Maybe the law suggests penalities will be treated differently, but "wrong" should not defined by age in my opinion.
If two people are smoking crack, a 16 year old and a 30 year old, both are just as much at fault for doing something wrong.
Maybe, our society is too relaxed on putting responsibility on our youth.
If little Johnny is told to take out the trash by his father and doesn't, than Johnny would most likely be punished for not doing such.
If little Johnny is told not to use illegal drugs and does anyway, then it's somewhat ok because he know's the "Big Boys" do it?
Don't make sense to me.
But if an adult is using drugs and everybody knows it, but the press, the authorities and his supervisors look the other way and the Johnny decides heck, why shouldn't I......
quote:Originally posted by KellerDad:
But if an adult is using drugs and everybody knows it, but the press, the authorities and his supervisors look the other way and the Johnny decides heck, why shouldn't I......
Yeah, why not.........because if he get's caught he know's he can just say..........
"But Dad, Mr. Superstar does it."
And Dad will, say........
"I know son, it's Ok....it's all his fault. Just don't do it again."
And life goes on forever and the party never ends.
In the end, we are still the same society that passes on accountability because we all know......
It's really not our fault, it's somebody else's.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
"But Dad, Mr. Superstar does it."
And Dad will, say........
"I know son, it's Ok....it's all his fault. Just don't do it again."
In the end, we are still the same society that passes on accountability because we all know......
It's really not our fault, it's somebody else's.
That's a pretty wide stroke Ken, I don't think all society is like that, it's not that way in our house.
"But Dad, Mr. Superstar does it."
And Dad will, say........
"I know son, it's Ok....it's all his fault. Just don't do it again."
In the end, we are still the same society that passes on accountability because we all know......
It's really not our fault, it's somebody else's.
That's a pretty wide stroke Ken, I don't think all society is like that, it's not that way in our house.
quote:Originally posted by Bring it:
That's a pretty wide stroke Ken, I don't think all society is like that, it's not that way in our house.
Of coarse it's a wide stroke.
I admire parents who make their child accountable for their actions.
Tonight Gage was watching Shrek while we tried to get him to bed.
He kept getting out toys wanting to play.
All the while, Dad told him no.
Finally, Dad's hand had to talk to Gage's butt.
He turned to me with his finger pointing and said.............
"No, No"
You guys are ridiculous. Who in their right mind could possibly believe that Roger Clemens did not take steroids?
http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline...ives/RCbos_RChou.jpg
Looks like a guy who just worked really hard in the weight room to me...
http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline...ives/RCbos_RChou.jpg
Looks like a guy who just worked really hard in the weight room to me...
quote:Originally posted by Lavender and Cream:
You guys are ridiculous. Who in their right mind could possibly believe that Roger Clemens did not take steroids?
http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline...ives/RCbos_RChou.jpg
Looks like a guy who just worked really hard in the weight room to me...
I don't know if Roger took steroids or not, but I don't believe you can compare a picture of a 20 something Roger to a 40 something Roger and say he did. I know my dad was a lot bigger in his 40ies than he was in his 20ies. And I know for a FACT that my dad did not take steroids. Some of what you see in before/after pictures has to do with physical maturation and age!
quote:Originally posted by Lavender and Cream:
You guys are ridiculous. Who in their right mind could possibly believe that Roger Clemens did not take steroids?
http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline...ives/RCbos_RChou.jpg
Those pictures prove nothing to me.
Look at pictures of players in the 60's and 70's who had a 10-15 year career.
You'll notice the same thing.....the older they got, the more physical the became.
You can go back further. Look at early pictures of Ted Williams and Mickey Mantle from their first couple of seasons and compare it to pictures at the end of their careers. They look like different people. In another sport, Muhammad Ali won a gold medal as a light heavyweight. 4 years and 25 pounds later he was the heavyweight champ.
Clemens is a cheat and every time, he and the others who get nailed open their mouth continuously put their foot in it.
Bottom line is to make it in baseball today, you need to take roids.
Bottom line is to make it in baseball today, you need to take roids.
more lies by clemens. i heard him say on 60 minutes that he did not know that he was implicated in the report and if he had of know he would have "gone down there and taken care of it." Now we here that Mitchell contacted the players union twice with the names of players and was giving them an opportunity to refute the allegations. "take care of it" Clemens didn't do anything.
this guy will say anything and expect people to believe him. THSBCA should be ashamed for their blind support of him.
this guy will say anything and expect people to believe him. THSBCA should be ashamed for their blind support of him.