Ron Wolforth or dick mills??

Wolforth, hands down. Your last statement shows you're not understanding what Wolforth's program is all about. Research it, then buy it. Forget Mills. All IMHO.

I agree D.M. MIGHT get you where you are now in terms of velocity but I have seen and heard of more pitchers abandoning him due to the brick wall they hit at around 80. Over the last year or so he has finally started coming around and now is singing a different tune than previously but his tune is being sung by a guy with a tin ear, imo. He is not open for debate if you go against his grain quite simply you will be gone.

I am always leery when I see info posted by a guy/gal whose location is "earth" or "home" or "here" etc.

Just makes me wonder.................

Hey TR, I personally dont care what you think. I also dont care to give out any more information than is needed when concerning anything on the web, thats just common sense. If you have something to offer do so if not why even post. If you love D.M. thats fine I dont. You must be on his bandwagon because your reaction would mimic his to a tee. You think differently thats fine, by the way I have his tapes. At least Woolforth has a clue. my opinion only

polishpride

I have no favorites other the pitching coaches on my staff so it is not matter of that--I could care less where anyone takes lessons or buys training packages-- I still stand by my statement of being leery of posters who use "earth" , 'here" etc as their locations

You keeping posting as you are and you will certainly prove my point--in fact I think you already have.


I rest my case

Only thing any of us should care about on this forum is questions and intelligent answers or comments. Who cares what someone's signin is or his location for goodness sake. Brand new member, puts in an intelligent response, and is immediately attacked for a non-baseball reason. We need to chill out and be much more respectfull and considerate here. On the other hand, we also need to be less defensive!! Hell my location is "Cleveland", and that opens me up to a lot more ridicule then "earth"!!!

don't hijack this thread.

anyway, Ron's program is the athelic's pitcher package right??

rbi

I do not think you have been around the site long enough, unless you have been lurking, to see where these types of threads end up-- it is "shill time"--one guru fan knocking another guru's program.

You can think as you wish but anyone with something to say, at least in my book, does not put location as "earth"-- I worry about items like this.

You are free not to worry


smokky not hijacking the thread--just stating my opinion which is yours to accept or not accept--matters not to me

TR, know any good Polish Jokes???

TR, if its really botherin you that much, Michigan. Polish jokes I know em all, heard em all,told em all. Hope this helps you become a little less leery and a less **** retentive. You sure sound like your "pucker factor " is at its max. Ive said my piece about dandy dick and thats that the guys a huckster at best!

STARZZ

I dont get into ethnic jokes--I grew up with them


Not do I have to resort to innuendo


Quite possibly it is shill time again now that the baseball season is underway.

rbi,
TR is correct, if you are here long enough you learn these things. This thread is in conjunction with another one to "discredit" the other. And many of these posters enjoy following up on topics with discussions among their own selves.
It is sad because some people take these threads seriously and have good input.
I never pay attention to anyone who gives silly answers for their location and I do believe most of us don't either. Besides, the poster is not new to the baord.
New topic anyone?

Just so your thread's not totally hijacked, go with Wolforth's Athletic Pitcher program.

As for my 'location' (since it seems to have been alluded to), I don't want to put Seoul, Korea because I'm not Korean. I also do not own a home in the States. I work for our Government. 'Neither Here Nor There' fits PERFECTLY.

Krakatoa,
Not referring to you, you have been around a while, we know where you are from, sorry you misunderstood.

does wolforths program have a section on Pitching mechanics??

I am new to this bad boy, and though you may or not be correct about the "shill" thing, I understand now where you are coming from. I thought you were being inconsiderate, but I see you are just being cautious. However, I don't understand your reference to me possibly "lurking". Lurkers, shillers, what other evil can be found on this site!!!!!! Perhaps only the Shadow knows!!!!

No one's asking for your PIN number just keep your profile updated so people know what perspective you are coming from.

To Original Poster:

If you are a soph in LA area and don't know a pitching coach you haven't tried very hard. If you don't know where to start, who clocked you? ask them for references.

Videos and books are great but you also need hands on training.

Hey people, I have been reading these forums for a very long time, yes I have been a lurker by choice. Choosing not to post due to its "clublike" menatality alone which has been reenforced again here,imo. I know what posts you are referring to and I also know who the instigater was, he is still posting although under a different moniker. The first post on this thread concerned a young man who wanted or felt the need to increase his velocity. I gave him my advice and it came from a less than enthusiastic owner of said persons product, ME. In reality I couldnt care less if he buys the guys tapes or not. The simple facts are after a certain point in a persons career change becomes hard and for most impossible. It is my feeling that this person has actually all but ruined many a potential pitchers chances due to his own stubborness not to see or realize just what so many high level pitchers do concerning pitching mechanics. Instead refusing to listen to other peoples GOOD intentioned questions and flat out banning them even after they wasted the money on his product, I KNOW IM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE! As an ending I will also say this.The person in question has EARNED the right to be ridiculed by his own actions NOT mine. He has earned the right to be flat out bodyslammed because of his attitude for his own refusal to listen to people that have purchased his stuff than come back with questions that hold merit. Those are my FACTS gathered from my own personal experience with the guy and guess what they dont change whether I say Im from earth or Michigan. Im not here to pit one against the other, imo they are not even close, to me thats like comparing a ford maverick to a ford mustang. I am also not here to try my best to break into the "clublike" mentality. So perhaps to your liking I will not post again at least until I see or have a chance to potentially help a person before he makes the mistake I did. Or in the least give him my opinion which is in fact what we all give. Now you may choose to read or not read what I post, again personally I couldnt care less. One last point concerning said person, dont you find it just a little ironic that this person has changed his tune over the last couple of years basically trying to repackage what others HAVE been saying? Can you say Johnny come lately? Happy EASTER HE HAS RISEN!

Well,..which one would you pick?

instruction over the internet by one of these wantabe pitching guru's

Or A real one on one college or MLB pitching coach...?

polishpride,

You had me until the clublike mentality part of the post. Do your beliefs go against the establisment as well?

If you research the topic on this board, you can easily tell in which camp you fall based solely on your rhetoric.

I fall into nobodies camp per se. I do know what most high level pitchers do from years and years of keen observation, rhetoric?, see what I mean!

pp,

again, research this topic through the arhives and you sound like everyone else who comes on here to bash another internet wiz.

quote:

Originally posted by smokky1:
which one?? i throw 81 mph and am a sophmore.i am looking to bust velocity. since i don't know any pitching coaches, which of these is better:Ron Wolforth or dick mills??

the thing i am worried about is that Ron Wolforth's video looks more like a strengh video then a mechanics video.

Smokky 1, You can learn from Mills or Wolforth.You can learn from House and Bob Shaw and many others. What happens with young pitchers and Dad's of young pitchers is that they are searching for all the right answers, but are not sure who is right or wrong. You can find things that you disagree with in most any pitching coach. Try and find the things that can help you the most and use them to improve yourself.

If you want to study a great delivery and pick up things that can make you a better pitcher, tape Greg Maddux and watch his delivery. He has done it for 20 years and is the most consistant pitcher in the history of the game.He has given free lessons every 5 days on TV since 1986......watch him and learn from him.......it will improve you as a pitcher.

quote:

If you want to study a great delivery and pick up things that can make you a better pitcher, tape Greg Maddux and watch his delivery. He has done it for 20 years and is the most consistant pitcher in the history of the game.He has given free lessons every 5 days on TV since 1986......watch him and learn from him.......it will improve you as a pitcher.

I've already tried watching Gm delivery. And many others also.Didn't work. What i need is an instruction given to me. I've thrown harder then 81 before, and i feel if i had proper PM i could throw 86. Now, i don't feel like i am getting the use of my legs and body like a pitcher should.My HS coach doesn't know anything about getting power, or about mechanics.The only good thing about my pitching is that i have GREAT movement on my fastball, it's just that i can't control it. My curve and change suck.

Tape Maddux and watch it closely and often. A good delivery is the most important thing you can have when wanting to throw quality strikes. If you have a good delivery and can repeat it, you will throw strikes. If you learn a good delivery, you will have a chance to throw harder too. If you have a good delivery, you will be able to throw a better change and curve too.If you jump from coach to coach and you don't know how to pitch, you will just be grasping at straws and hoping that the new coach is teaching you properly. You can learn a lot more by observing the best and their deliveries, and Maddux has the best delivery.

Yeah i'll tape maddux. I've been watching on mlb.com Ben Sheets Delivery. I've noticed how faster his body is then mine. My delivery is much slower.Maybe thats why i throw slower.

If you PM me and give me your e-mail address, I will send you a couple of clips of Maddux when he was not much older than you are. Watch his head and his lead foot when it lands. Watch the rotation of the middle of his body. Watch the running start his arm gets. At 18, he was light years ahead of every body, and he was 5'11 weighed 155 lbs and cruised at 93-94mph. When I say cruised, I mean that he was at that number and did it every game for the whole 7 innings.He also averaged about 1 walk every 9 innings.

alright i will PM you

Smoky1, "Ive been watching Ben Sheets delivery on mlb .com and his body looks so much faster than mine" Aha, your on the right track if your intentions are concerning velocity! imo. If you can come up with a clip of Brad Radke check him out, quite possibly the easiest delivery you will ever see for a power pitcher,effortless. Greg Maddux is a freak, hes certainly no power pitcher and he certainly has perhaps the best pinpoint control of any pitcher that been around for a long long time. That being said by his own words, Im an inch away from getting shelled with just about every pitch I throw [except for that nasty change up]. Without mentioning names if there is ONe single issue that one of these internet gurus is right on the money with it is most high level power pitchers are at or very near 21 frames from the point of high knee lift to ball release on a 30 frame per second camera. As easy and free as Radke looks hes at about 20. Maddux is about 25 or 26 if memory serves me correctly. Concerning the hands, Break late-concerning release, release late- concerning everything in between, do it as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Polishpride, What do you mean at the end of your post when you talk about the hands? Hands-break late....release-release late? Would you please explain.

The hands break from the glove late, eccentuating a quick arm from THAT moment this being the important aspect perhaps moreso than when the hands break. Ball release late, eccentuating a longer driveline. Everything in between as fast/efficient as possible eccentuates rapid efficient tempo.

If the pitcher gets a running start with his throwing arm, the arm will have momentum going and the hand will come out of the glove on time, not late. Maddux does this along with only 5-6 other pitchers in the big leagues. Years ago, almost all the big league pitchers did it the way Maddux does it. Most pitchers today have their hands frozen in front of their chest and have to jerk the ball out of the glove and get their hand moving.

I assume when you say releasing the ball late, you mean closer to home plate? When Maddux was a youngster, his back foot would be three feet in front of the rubber when he released the ball. About two feet closer to home plate than most big league pitchers.

bbscout - Very interesting post. Based on what you said, I am particularly curious about how Maddux ends his pitch, and where the position of his body is in relation to where his leading foot lands.

URKMB, PM me your e-mail address and I will send you a couple of clips of Maddux when he was your son's age.

For some that works others it doesnt, at around 5ft 10, not considered huge by pro pitching standards billy wagner gets it done quite nicely. Hes an exception to what you are saying I realize. Im all for a running start, I think I know you from the other site there is and was only one person who was really trying to drive that point home? I believe it was you cant remember the name though. Again I agree with that concept unfortunately it does not work for everybody, my son included. The real point is whatever it takes to develop a quick arm from the getgo. IMO a huge part is being as fast tempo wise as possible [barring extremes] as the body can be BUT still being efficient at the same time.

I wanna buy the DM's program. i don't wanna follow it throughly though. i jus wanna know the way he uses the lower body. i am still going to do long toss,weighted balls and weightlift.

bump

BBScout, you have a PM. Thanks.

I wanna buy the DM's program. i don't wanna follow it throughly though. i jus wanna know the way he uses the lower body. i am still going to do long toss,weighted balls and weightlift. For some reason i throw SLOWER then what i use to.So i am desperate