Roster Spot Offer

If the school has a fully funded baseball program and awards 11.7 in scholarships, has a full 35 on the spring roster, and carries 40+ in the fall, then I would check it out more thoroughly. You may be signing up to fight it out with numerous other walk-ons for the non-scholarship roster spots.

If the school is not fully funded, and does not award 11.7, doesn't carry 35 on the spring roster, and doesn't have 40+ in the fall, then it might be common practice at that school.

They do have a fully funded program. Coach told him he has a guaranteed roster spot on the 35 man roster. Is that any better? Do they sign any commitment letter?

Ultimately those who perform play. But a non scholarship player might be the last one to get that opportunity if at all. I say might because there can be other circumstances. It's a nothing to lose situation for the coach. He's not giving up anything. About 20-22 players play enough to impact the success of the team. If your son is number 28-35 (non scholarship) where do you feel he stands in the mix? That you're asking here means you're not sure and the coaching staff hasn't given your son a definitive answer. I believe if they really wanted him they would be offering money or giving a solid reason why they're not yet but they really want him. Your son should ask who are the non scholarship players who are starting. A player is never guaranteed making the team from year to year.

Once your son steps on the campus the five year clock starts. Once he steps on the practice field with the team he sits out a year if he transfers. Not playing and transferring could mean sitting for two years. Thank the NCAA, who looks out for the best interest of players (cough, gag) for that rule.

The agreement is only verbal and there is no NLI since the school is not committing anything tangible to your son. If the coach leaves or get's fired then the commitment leaves with him. To the school your son is just another incoming student and will not be part of the team until school starts and the coach puts him on the list. Sometimes schools give priority registration and housing to student-athletes and he will likely not benefit in these programs, but I would check if your son decides to go there. 

I have to agree with RJM and BOF.  If he really wanted your son, he would find the $$ somewhere.  Sounds like the coach has already used up his funds on commitments and is trying to fill the rest of the roster.  Coaches can sound sincere and interested, but a unless they put some skin in the game, it's just an act.

If your son does sign a NLI with no money it just commits him to that school.  There's no commitment by the school.  There's no "guarantee" of a roster spot.  Trust me - we've been there and done that at the JuCo level.

I'd be willing to bet there will be more than 7 non-scholarship players at fall practices.  He'd still have to earn his way on the team.  Then it's another battle to get into the line up somewhere.

FoxDad and JABMK,

There won't be an NLI since the school is not committing any $$ to the player. It is all verbal. My son had a similar "offer" and in discussions with admissions he was just like any other incoming student so there were no prioritized class selections or housing. To the school he was not a student-athlete until after classes started and he was put on the fall roster by the coach. We happened to know the coach was on thin ice so we were very suspect of the opportunity. The coach was subsequently fired and I am pretty sure my son would have been up a creek as there would have likely been no record of him even existing to the baseball program. 

How does one get some type of confirmation of the Roster spot? I guess just ask the coach the questions and accept it or not?

This is the question I was trying to ask with my "Merit Scholarships" post.  I'm interested to see the outcome JABMK.  Good luck to your son!

Sounds like they like him but they aren't 100% sure yet about how much.  Either wanting to see him play more or they are waiting on other players they rate higher to make decisions.  

So am I right with the thought process that a preferred walk-on is someone who is given an opportunity to try out for the team during Fall without any commitments and Guaranteed Roster Spot is someone who is given a chance for at least a year, at least in this case? 

I do understand even with someone who is getting shcolly money they can not be asked back. 

Even being a scholarship player doesn't guarantee making the team. I know of a case where the recruiting coach brought in a player the head coach didn't like. The player's scholarship for that year would have had to be honored if the kid hadn't left campus.

Bottom line is in D1, a team basically HAS to have 8 kids on the roster that are not on a baseball scholarship.  Does a coach fill those spots with crappy players that they don't want and have no chance to make the team?  I wouldn't think so.  If a coach can fill those spots with quality ball players who get a bunch of academic money, I'm sure he's as pleased as punch.  I don't necessarily think that just because your son is not getting baseball money, it doesn't mean the coach doesn't like you.  Especially if your son is getting a bunch of academic money.

Whether the coach really likes your son is a judgement call you and your son are going to have to make.  No one on this site can give you a definite answer one way or another.  I would say if the coach promised you a guaranteed spot on the 35 man spring roster, that's a pretty good sign.  Unless you think he's flat out lying.  Only you can tell that by your interactions with him or looking at past history.

Like I said in the beginning, every D1 team HAS to have 8 non-scholarship players.  It doesn't mean they don't like you.  They may love you because you are good and you get a bunch of academic money.  As others have said, even if your son had baseball money, that is a year to year thing.  Nothing is guaranteed.

At some of the more expensive colleges, it is fairly routine for players to be guaranteed a roster spot even though they are not offered baseball scholarship money.

I can speak with certainty about Duke. Because of the high cost of attendance, many families will qualify for financial aid that is equal to or better than a decent sized baseball scholarship. 

For such players, they get admitted to the school, accept the financial aid offer, and then sign an "Institutional Letter of Intent," that the NCAA recognizes and that allows the baseball program to include the player in the press releases about the recruiting class. 

At Duke, the baseball program does not distinguish between players on baseball $$ vs. players on financial aid $$ as far as opportunity for playing time. 

bballman's point is key.  The maximum roster size is 35, but no more than 27 can share in the baseball athletic aid available (whether they're funded for the 11.7 max or less). 

If a team has 35 guys on the roster, you can deduce that at least 8 of them -- possibly more -- are getting no baseball aid at all.

The rub is that if the team has more than 35 on the field in the fall, the axe has to drop on someone's neck over the winter, and it's going to cut those who don't have baseball aid, because those baseball aid recipients are (by rule) going to count towards the 35 limit whether or not they remain on the roster.

I know of many, many success stories with walk-ons, so-called "guaranteed walk-ons" (your situation), etc.  But I also know of some horror stories. 

What you have to do is, research the team's and the head coach's reputation on this very subject and see if they have a track record of keeping, or perhaps breaking, these promises.  You'll find that many coaches impeccably keep these promises, others are, well, less than reliable.

You'll also get coaches who clearly delineate players receiving no aid who are definitely going to get roster spots (at least as freshmen), from those who are merely getting a shot at making the team.  So you can have walk-ons who get cut and yet nothing untoward has happened.  Many kids will indeed commit for nothing more than help with the admissions department and the offer of the opportunity to compete, and there is nothing at all unethical with such deals as long as both sides are totally honest about it up front.

BTW, there are also players whose families are filthy rich, and who volunteer to forgo baseball money for the good of the team.  Some of them even donate money to the program. 

I've even seen some programs where this arrangement can lead to coaches favoring the player and his parents, and that can get really ugly.

There are hundreds of programs out there, and probably just as many variations on how things are handled.

JABMK,

If you son has the talent to interest a D1 school,but not to the point to where they want to throw athletic money at him,has he thought about D2 or NAIA schools?? If he is projected to get high academic cash from the D1 and you hope he makes the team and gets to play??? Why not try to get him somewhere where he will have a lot better chance of playing and get money on both ends?? Just a thought. I am going thru this with my 2015 grad and I am seeing that NAIA schools have quite a bit of cash to throw around if your on their radar. Good Luck

Ditto on Midlo's statement.  You will see in the thread link I provided below that my 2014 son had the same dilemma, and we researched and he decided to go this route rather than take offers from other schools.  In the end son may regret it, or he may think it was the best decision of his life.  All I know is we did our homework before he decided by talking to everyone in the past connected to the program to find out how the program historically treated these players.  See  http://community.hsbaseballweb...aranteed-roster-spot

Being guaranteed a roster spot gives a player a chance to workout and practice with the team. It is an opportunity to do the best you can in the fall so that you can make the travel squad in the spring. Your son may want to inquire how many players travel with the team, if this is important to him.

There will be many who succeed in this role and get some innings. There will be some who won't mind not travelIng with the team. 

What are the odds that a coach will offer money if the player will commit without it? I really have no idea on that one. Others will have more experience with that.

The best phrase to remember is that "a guaranteed spring roster spot is only as good as the coaches word".

As BOF and others pointed out, there is no NLI or formal/legal document that protects your son's "guaranteed spot" other than the coaches integrity. We have experienced both the good and the bad in that the first coach lived up to his word and my son was not only on the team in the Spring, but also played based on performance. Another kid told us he was promised the same thing, but was thrown off the team in the Fall for discipline reasons. That of course is understandable as is poor academics.

The next school my son transferred to also gave him a guaranteed Spring roster spot(no money), but he fell ill during Fall ball. The coach made it clear that although he could still "make the team if he recovered quickly enough", he was not going to honor the spot we were promised because "winning was too important to him". So while my son still could have been on the Spring roster if he got healthy quickly, he was expected to compete for the spot he had originally been promised. We decided that the writing was on the wall since my son was still ill & 30lbs underweight, so we had him transfer out. The moral of the story is be careful and do your research because anything can happen. For instance the recruiting coordinator who was high on my son to begin with left to take another job. There was no way to know that, so always be polite but ask if there is any likelihood a coach might be leaving. If they indicate it is possible, be very cautious because as others have said, any guarantees go out the window when the coach departs.

This story and worse has played out with others I am aware of as well. They are promised a roster spot only to report to Fall ball with 40 or even 50 kids. The coach then says they meant a guaranteed Fall roster spot(i.e. a tryout as a walk on), nothing more.

So make sure to do your research by talking to other parents/players to find out the reputation and integrity of the coach, as his word is all you really have.

Good luck & keep us posted.

Just curious.  If a team is fully funded athletically aren’t they very limited the academic money that can give to players?  I am sure many players could qualify for academic money.  I did not think the NCAA lets schools double dip on scholarships

Schools can combine merit money and athletic money, but they cannot combine need-based aid with athletic money.

Important to keep in mind that the merit money must be equally available to non-athletes who meet the qualifying criteria. It is that "equal playing field" aspect that prevents colleges from favoring athletes with merit-based scholarships.

My son was offered a roster only spot to his DREAM school in the middle of his junior year.  He struggled with the decision - but passed on the offer.

This past summer (summer between HS and college) the staff at that school was fired.  He would have been screwed and doubt the incoming coach would have honored the "verbal" commitment.  As there is not written commitment.