Skip to main content

47 replies

Scapula loading

H hsballcoach100+ posts
Personally, I am still trying to determine the value of this. A couple of thoughts have crossed my mind. 1. There is a process in muscle contraction called reciprocal innervation. This is when the antagonist muscle is inhibited so that the agonist can contract with maximum efficiency. This is one of the reasons that I encourage players to stay relaxed so that the muscles that need to fire quickly can do so with little resistance. It seems that if you are pinching your shoulder blades together that you are contracting in a direction oppositional to where you need to go. 2. Can we achieve proper load and positioning by placing the hands in a strong position without flexing the muscles of the back?
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

CC Coach Chris100+ posts
This is one of my primary concerns with scapular loading. That if you try to do something specific with the scapula then you could interfere with its natural and essential role in stabilizing the shoulder joint.

Given the possible performance gain (which I can't see being more than 5% given the size of the muscles that are involved) I don't think it's worth the risk.

If it happens naturally, then that it one thing. Trying to do it explicitly is something else entirely.
L Linear500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach Chris:
This is one of my primary concerns with scapular loading. That if you try to do something specific with the scapula then you could interfere with its natural and essential role in stabilizing the shoulder joint.


Does a boxer scap load? Is his shoulder joint unstable?

quote:
Given the possible performance gain (which I can't see being more than 5% given the size of the muscles that are involved) I don't think it's worth the risk.


An extemely small "change" at the beginning of a swing can make very large differences at the end of the swing. Scap loading is involved in reducing slack/slop as much as anything. If you leave slack in your swing your performance is very inefficient. Can mean a couple frames of video which is huge.
Last edited by Linear
R rocket100+ posts
Every MLB pitcher that I know of scapula loads, so it has to be a fairly good way of helping to produce force.

I also agree with Linear, scapula loading helps hitters as well. This position helps maintain a connection between the bat and the body. It helps to prevent the hands from taking over in the swing (outrunning the momentum on the shoulders).
Last edited by rocket
H hsballcoach100+ posts
quote:
Every MLB pitcher that I know of scapula loads, so it has to be a fairly good way of helping to produce force.


Are they pinching their shoulder blades together or are they sticking their chest out in what used to be called a "proud chest" whereby their shoulder blades would be brought together without actually trying to flex the muscles in the back?
H hsballcoach100+ posts
I understand what you are saying Linear. But I am curious, have any major league players stated that they flex their back to stretch out the pectoral region, or are they placing their hands in a position that moves the shoulder blades into a scap load position. On film they would look the same, but in reality are very different. I would be interested to see someone hook electrodes up the a professional hitter and get some feedback as to how much they are flexing as opposed to how much the shoulder blades are moved due to hand and arm placement. That is truly the only way to know how much the muscles are contracting.
kevin11kevin11100+ posts
Not an expert by any means, but in the workout my son was given to strengthen small but important muscles, exercises were included to pull the shoulder blades together and strengthen, I assume the muscles discussed here. He uses a big rubber band (?) and does like rowing motions, and in the back pulls his shoulder blades back. It was explained to us by doing simple, small weight exercises now, you can help to prevent injuries to those muscles and areas as you get older.
CC Coach Chris100+ posts
"Does a boxer scap load? Is his shoulder joint unstable?"

I don't know. I looked at some pictures of Tyson and couldn't tell.


"An extemely small "change" at the beginning of a swing can make very large differences at the end of the swing. Scap loading is involved in reducing slack/slop as much as anything."

This assumes that the body is inefficient which usually a valid assumption, especially when it comes to small and precise motor movements.

I repeat. Too often if you try to get the body to do something specific, you end up interfering with something more important.
S swingbuster1,000+ posts
Teaching pure scap loading is an arduous unnatural process. First of all the rear scap contracts in hitting ; not rear and lead. THey both pinch in pitching where it is much eaasier to teach.

The whole purpose of the term and phrase was to show that the shoulder unit can move around the spine without the spine moving. IOWs the sternum can face straight ahead and not move and the shoulder can rotate around a stationary spinal axis.

Expanding this fact to a teaching cue to scap load is a little questionable. The question is how to get the hands/ bat back inside without a lot of hand action .

Passions post/ cue about keeping the palm of the top hand facing the picture through the load was a good one.

All of this is a better show than tell.

Giving the batter the feel of his hands in the "set up" and putting them in the same location where they must move backwards and inwards is helpful . The burden to show how to make this move is still on the coach. It does involve arm movement with the elbows still bent that is controlled by the many muscles other than the primary arm muscles

If the bat is in the 45 slot in the waiting period and you load properly then the bat will leave the 45 slot go more splitting the helmet and return there at launch. This is a function of the lead elbow moving down near the pect as the rear elbow moves up and through "scap loading" if you like that term. The wrist remain fixed through this motion

Attempts to have limited elbow action and no bat movement and still load the hands back and in is killing the batters feel.

To try to simply draw this muscle from the rear shoulder and call this loading for the whole action fails miserably for kids

If you think you can isolate that function and teach only that get into the proper launch position...good luck...this is the short coming of the Ny-man approach. He failed to finish the job teaching upper body mechanics. He got close...but it took others( like with most instructors) to fill in the blank spots.


THere are many trying to teach with incomplete information and they are pure in his method
Last edited by swingbuster
CC Coach Chris100+ posts
Does anyone seriously believe that Mike Tyson's power came from Scap Loading?

I don't.

Instead, I believe his power came from the rotation of his hips, torso, and shoulders.

I would submit that, given the size of the muscles involved, your time is much better spent working on prestretching the muscles of your torso and rotating your hips before your shoulders.
CC Coach Chris100+ posts
"So, how the arm, which has the hand attached to it, which actually delivers the blow, generated from the power of the body, is not important?"

No, the action of the arm is important.

But it's not nearly as important as the action of the hips, torso, and shoulders (due to the size of the muscles that are involved).

The importance of the rotation of the hips is critical regardless of whether you are trying to do a karate or tae kwon do punch, hit a baseball, or hit a golf ball.
CC Coach Chris100+ posts
"Wow. Is your gun loaded, Barney? Please, take the bullet out of your pocket."

Huh?

Are you unfamilar with the concept variously known as pre-stretching, the stretch-shortening cycle, and the countermovement?

It's a basic physiological principle that says that muscles are able to more powerfully contract if they are first stretched. For instance, that's why, when hitting a golf ball, you should first rotate clockwise before then rotating counterclockwise. It's also why you can jump higher if you first stand up, crouch down, and then jump than if you try to jump from a crouched position.

Try it.
L Linear500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by swingbuster:
Coach Chris...he doesn't take the test he grades them all for HSBBWEB.

THe self appointed graders with no answers over three words long...so if your replying to him and write more than three words you will get tired first.

Don't wrestle a pig, you will get dirty and they love the mud


All I like is a two sided debate. I can get one from you buster. But not from Chris.
Last edited by Linear
Next

Add Reply

Post

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×