School Ball

As a generality middle school ball is a politically expedient choice regardless of the talent level of the participants. The value of a practice relates directly to the coach running it. If you look around at bunch of kids standing around while one swings a bat at pitches the practice is disorganized and a waste of time except for the political componants.

Kids who choose not to participate on a team with 20 kids, many who are no good, are choosing wisely as it relates to their baseball future if the political payback in HS is not a factor.

Even the political thing might not be a factor. Some HS coaches are not involved at all with the team. Might not make a difference.

My observations are that MS teams are usually pretty weak. Therefore they play weak competition. Other than the fun of playing with kids you go to shcool with, there is no real benefit to playing on a MS team. Especially if it interfers with or takes the place of a high quality travel team.

Our HS just put together an 8th grade team for the first time. They are an average team at best. I had always wanted the school to do this, however I don't think I would have had my son on this team. He is a freshman this year. Last year, we played at a very high level against some of the best competition the state and region had to offer. My son needed that challenge. He is a pitcher and playing at the level the 8th grade team plays would not have been a challenge. It may have stunted his progress. He is currently one of the 3 Varsity starting pitchers on the HS team and doing well.

I am all for community and playing with friends, but if someone is at a much higher skill level than the rest of the team, his skills will not improve and he will wind up being very frustrated with the play of his teammates.

Believe me, if he is good enough, the HS coach will recognize his talent - whether or not he plays on the MS team.

Many of my sons best friends he met at middle school ball. Though his skill level was higher (he has played agianst some of the best teams in country and rarley overmatched--usally a man-child)he had a great time, was it frustrating at times? Yes!!! But so is life. If he wants to do it he will have fun and develop bonds and friendships that will last thru high school and beyond. To me saying he is playing down is egotistical there kids not pros I think many dads think there son is to good to play not the kids themselfs. Good luck in whatever you choose--have a great season!

Not trying to be egotistical. If you can play both, do it. At our school, the team is an 8th grade travel team. Choice would have been play for the 8th grade travel team at a AA level or play on a Major level travel team. For development sake, the Major team would have won out. For us, this was a totally hypothetical situation as the program was not available last year. Some teams played an actual MS feeder team league that went towards the beginning of the travel schedule. If that is the case, do it, but like I said, if it is either/or, I would have opted for the higher level for development sake.

Travel begins after the school season is complete in our area. The schools have Mod (7-8), Freshman, JV, & V teams. If a kid is truly talented he can be moved up. Just seems as though it would be tough to let your talent shine if all you have is a 3 day indoor tryout for the coaching staff to judge you by.

If travel doesn't start until after school ball, the kid should play. I would think it would be fun to play with friends. It is kind of weird he wouldn't want to do it if it wasn't interfering with travel team.

Baseball life surely is different up here in the North.

Our school teams are made up of the best players in the area, 15U and up travel teams don't start up till the school season is over. 13U and 14U teams only play on the weekends while middle school teams practice and play during the week. School ball takes precedent over travel ball if a conflict does arise. You play travel ball hoping it helps you to make the school teams. Course 95% of the travel teams stay local to New England maybe traveling to one tourney outside the area during the season. School ball is still the king here.

Yeah, that is different than here. Schools are just starting to put together "feeder teams". They are basically travel teams for kids going to that school. The only true MS teams that actually play in a league are the private schools. Much different.

From looking down the road at high school perspective, the relevance of playing middle school ball depends on whether or not the varsity coach is keeping tabs. In our district the varsity coach looks at baseball as his program from varsity down to middle school ball. He'll occasionally run middle school practices. He'll get to a few games. He'll ask the coach to try players at other positions.

Last year three freshmen received varsity tryouts because the coach saw their skills playing middle school. Neither made varsity. But two became the first sophs in six years to start opening day on varsity (large school).

From a fun standpoint, what could be better than playing with the guys you've come through youth ball with? Yes it was slow motion compared to travel. But the three travel kids led the team to a good season. For me it was a social event with parents I know I wouldn't be around as frequently in the future.

Aside from fun, middle school baseball was reps every weekday that wouldn't be there with travel. In 7th grade it was the preseason. In 8th grade his travel team schedule started in April. He played for a team where most of the kids attended school without middle school ball.

I will say when my son played middle school ball the six best players rarely came off the field. There were only fifteen players on the team. In the previous season the team had twenty-six players. Cuts weren't allowed by mandate of the middle school principal. Also players had to play every game. Everyone played two innings. Some players wouldn't get to the plate. When my son and several other baseball players discussed playing middle school lacrosse the new varsity coach and the high school AD had a talk with her. They didn't want to risk losing baseball players to lacrosse.

Middle school ball in Phoenix is just like LL. Everybody makes the team, everybody plays. All of our travel guys play MS ball where it is offered. It IS a lot of fun. Just like LL.

Our middle schools don't have a team.The middle school players tryout for freshman when in 7th grade and if they don't make it,play rec or travel.(6th graders can tryout for our fastpitch softball and has even had a 5th grader[sister on varsity,known by coaches] start at short on freshman a couple years ago)

In our case,trying out for the freshman team,even as a 7th grader makes since,because it will atleast get you on the radar as someone to watch.

As far as politics,I could care less about that and teach my kids the same.Let your work ethic and skill level speak for itself.

I don't really see how MS ball has anything to do with high school ball. You're talking 6-8 graders. Even if a HS coach has any interest in the MS team, a lot changes from the 6th grade to the 10th grade. Besides, if a freshman or sophomore went to a high school tryout and never played MS ball and can play, he's making the team.

The only advantage I can see to a MS team is it might keep kids from dropping baseball to other spring sports offered if baseball wasn't available locally.

Our area don't have MS ball and the local rec league serves as a feeder to the high school. They sponsor a Legion and BR team for the players so if the HS coach really wanted to see MS players, he can catch a legion game or a BR all-star game. Some players also play in local weekend travel leagues.

I would guess that many MS baseball programs carry a lot more players than the local rec leagues would which means lots more kids sit, get bored and go play another sport with more action.

I get a chuckle out of these threads when they pop up from time to time.

The HS coach does not give a rats behind where, how and what route a player took to get to his program. All he cares about is: 1) Can he play? 2) Where does the kid fit in his pool of players and Varsity team needs 3) How he thinks the player will develop over time.

Everything else is completely irrelevant.

BOF is correct at least to how it went at the local high school. I know of 4 kids who made the Freshman team that could not make their Middle School team but yet somehow they were deemed good enough to make the Freshman team. So playing Middle School doesn't guarantee a thing. Our high school coach does not have anything to do with the middle schools, which in a way makes sense as we have 3 middle schools and two high schools so one of the middle schools actually feeds both high schools.

Playing Middle School does prepare you for what playing school ball is like, daily practices, bus rides to away games, school pride etc. In many cases it can expose you to positions you might never had played on your travel team etc too.

BOF, at the risk of further entertaining you... shouldn't MS, Frosh, & JV ball be a part of the Varsity coaches program ?

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
BOF, at the risk of further entertaining you... shouldn't MS, Frosh, & JV ball be a part of the Varsity coaches program ?

At our high school it's all part of the program. A player can get on the radar screen early. But when it all nets out, it's really about when a player is ready for varsity, not how he got there. Since the varsity coach will attend a few middle school practices and games he can tell a player he has a flaw to fix before he gets to high school. That's a good heads up for the player.

My goodness a HS coach has his hands full with his own program...particularly if he has 3 teams. Most HS's out here have 2-4 MDL schools feeding into a HS.

That said most will encourage the development of kids feeding into his program. I know ours lets the local LL Jr program use the JV field when not being used by the HS program. He also lets a local travel team use the field for games and practices. He will occasionally stop by and chat with the coaches of the other programs and offer some advice, beyond this he does not have the time.

At least around here the same kids you play with in middle school are going to be the ones that you play with in hs. Yes the coaching is pretty weak. Yes the talent level of most of the players is pretty weak. And yes the caliber of baseball is very weak. But to me its about building relationships with the players you will be playing with in high school. My son and his best friend were both way ahead of the other players that they played with in middle school. At times it was frustrating for them. But they helped elevate the other kids games. They ended up having some fun playing with these guys. And these were the same guys for the most part that they played four years with in high school. They became very good friends and shared a lot of memories with.

By not playing with them in middle school what are you really telling those other kids? Its only three short months anyway. I wouldnt worry about the high school coach and what he thought. Heck I only see one or two middle school games a year because we are playing and practicing at the same time. Plus I could careless what a kid does before he gets to our program I will judge him on what I see once he gets here. But I think it is important to build relationships with the guys you are going to play with in high school before you get to high school if that is possible.

But thats just my opinion. By the way everyone on your high school team is not going to be a stud. In fact the best high school teams all have a couple of studs on them. The difference is who has the best other players on the roster. So anything you can do to help those guys raise the bar only helps you win more in hs. JMHO

Agree with Coach May here. For the years that my son and Coach May's were in high school(not the same school), I firmly believe that a big part of both team's success was the fact that the kids had played together and adjusted to what their roles would be. After our boys had played AAU ball together, I'll never forget going to one of Coach May's high school games and listening to him tell my son(as an 8th grader) that he could forget all that baseball in AAU. High school would be different. As a high school coach he didn't give a rat's a$$ what a kid had accomplished in AAU or any other travel ball. It was an oratory that my kid took to heart. Both our kids refrained from travel ball until middle school ball was done. A kid will not be harmed by playing with his friends on an inferior middle school team IMO. Being a high quality player is up to the individual. If a kid wants it, and has talent a sorry middle school team will not hold him back.

Whatever happened to playing for fun. Especially at middle school age. IMO it is very elitist to not play for your middle school if the have a program. And a travel program that discourages kids from playing middle school baseball has it's priorities wrong.

I also don't believe, and have never seen, anyone's "career" be stunted by playing with "inferior" talent at 12 years old, or any age. IMO only one word describes why a kid would not play middle school ball...ego. Most likely dad's

If kids can't play for the fun of it at 11-13, they will never play for fun.

Southern that seems like yesterday. Matt Harrison was pitching that night and we were playing SouthWest Edgecomb in the first round of the state playoffs. I remember meeting you and Jim behind the dugout for the first time. Man where do the years go? I was very lucky to get to know you and Jim.

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
Whatever happened to playing for fun. Especially at middle school age. IMO it is very elitist to not play for your middle school if the have a program. And a travel program that discourages kids from playing middle school baseball has it's priorities wrong.

I also don't believe, and have never seen, anyone's "career" be stunted by playing with "inferior" talent at 12 years old, or any age. IMO only one word describes why a kid would not play middle school ball...ego. Most likely dad's

If kids can't play for the fun of it at 11-13, they will never play for fun.

Somewhere along the line some parents sucked the fun out of sports by mistaking youth sports for development of future college and pro players. As a kid I didn't give playing college baseball much thought. And I didn't give D1 or D3 any thought. I just assumed as long as I was going to school I would play baseball. As a kid I figured I would attend the same D3 most of the men in my family tree attended. It wasn't until having a great season in high school and Legion ball I became aware of other possibilities.

A couple of years ago the mother of an 8th grade said it was real important her son find the right program to develop him into a college player. My response was, "How about if he develops into a high school player first?"

Just work to be a better player tomorrow than you were today. Enjoy the game and have some fun along the way. Everything else will take care of itself in due time. Its very easy to get caught up in some of this stuff if you let yourself do it. The problem is you end up at the end of the road wishing you had taken the time to enjoy the ride along the way. The problem is the ride is over and you can't go back.

Its a whole lot more fun when you focus on having fun and forget about the stuff that in the end really won't matter anyway.

I had the mother of a 12 year old tell me her son was going to pitch in the majors.I just bit my lip.

Hey you never know he just might.

He might,he is a good pitcher but he didn't even go out for the high school freshman team this year and is staying with rec ball.Seems the parents goals aren't the same as the kids.


BUT,saying a kid will play in the majors when they are 12 is very nieve at best.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
I had the mother of a 12 year old tell me her son was going to pitch in the majors.I just bit my lip.

She was probably talking about the LL "Major" divsion.....

Not hardly,he was playing Cal Ripken and was already in the "majors"

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
One of our travel players decided against playing MS ball because he heard you only get to play half of the game, teams aren't very good, etc ...been seeing more of these type posts around here as well. Doesn't anyone value practice time ? IMO you need talent and patience to succeed in building a program. Do people really believe a coach is going to welcome them with open arms a couple years down the road when the player (or his parents) deem the contests worthy ?

Looking at the original poster's questions. My son, in 6th grade, is most likely going to take a risk and not start his school baseball until 9th grade.
The reason is he likes track and field and at his school its impossible to do both. We've talked it and he and I agree, the development and workouts in track and field might be more beneficial in the long run. The track coaches have him doing 3 to 5 miles of speed work on the track at every practice. He's getting faster and his legs are getting stronger.

As far as baseball goes, he will play travel ball and weekend tournaments March thru July during his MS years. School track meets are immediately after school and never on the weekends. So, he can get in 50 to 60 games per year in the travel leagues.

In the 9th grade, he will need to make a decision regarding track or baseball, but it will be the first time his high school baseball coaches will of met him. My only hope is that those coaches are coaches of character and play the best nine come game time. My fear is the same as that of the original poster's, that the coaches might choose familiar names who they've worked with for the last 3 years. Instead of choosing talent, coachability, and attitude. We shall see...

But, my son is taking the risk and delaying the start of school ball until HS. (Travel ball will remain a big focus until that time.)

quote:

My fear is the same as that of the original poster's, that the coaches might choose familiar names who they've worked with for the last 3 years. Instead of choosing talent, coachability, and attitude. We shall see...

I guess it matters where you are in the talent spectrum. If you're not obviously superior to the current starters, it could be hard to come in as an unknown and win a spot. Bubble players probably need to be on the coach's radar screen for as long as possible. Studs can show up anytime.

On the other side of this discussion the areas, like ours, that don't offer middle school ball. Now the adjoining counties do, but not ours. What happens is that a TON of kids go out for JV including 8th graders. Some REALLY GOOD ballplayers don't even get a second look because of time constraints with tryouts and the fact the Coach may not know them.

I was asked to help with a JV tryout at a local HS when my kid was probably 5 or 6 years old. They gave me a clipboard with names. There were over 100 kids trying out. While watching the kids warm up, run and throw the ball, I had already crossed off over 40 names. When I took the list up to the Coach he asked me how I could do that without seeing them play. I told him that if a kid can't throw or catch a baseball in 8th grade, he probably needs to look for another venue beside JV baseball. The other "coach" scoffed at my suggestion.

All but two of the names I had crossed out didn't make first cuts. Guess who was good friends with the families of those two? Yup..."coach" #2...

We have a fairly new coach at our local HS and his assitants are out there watching local players and asking questions. I ran into one at a rec basketball game....the subject of baseball was brought up by another parent....the coach ended up asking me about this kid and that kid on the basketball court (an athlete is an athlete most of the time).....he was shocked to say the least when I pointed out the 5 kids that play ball that would be going to his school...and would be trying out...in two years LOL..

OK I feel compelled to weigh in here. I'm actually one of the middle school coaches that is 'inferior.' I will say that we are not officially sponsored by the school system but we don't let that stop us.

I was actually approached by the HS coach about getting this program started. His reasoning, which I agree with, is that travel ball is all about trophies and what 'showcase' or 'world series' you go to. None of which prepares players to play hs baseball. Which, I think we can all agree, travel and hs ball are played differently.

We run our program as closly to the HS lay out as possible. Of course we have to water things down but it's all based off the HS program. Signals, baserunning mentalities, pick off plays, bunt coverages. We're sending our boys to the HS already knowing a lot of the stuff they had to spend weeks on in the past. We also run our practices in a very similar way as the HS, again slightly watered down.

We play in the Fall and stay together in the Winter, where we go indoors. Then we have our Spring season and as soon as that is over they are free to go play where they want.

We also do off season conditioning. At the ms level not all the players are physically mature enough to lift so we do a lot of body weight, med ball, bands, and plyos. The amount of off season training that the hs does in the Winter here is intense and the boys that haven't prepared for it really suffer once hs conditioning starts.

As far as the level of competition, we play the best. Not just middle school teams but also travel ball teams. We'll even scrimmage the hs freshman. I will say that we aren't as concerned about the W-L record as much as we are the development of players. This can get frustrating to the players, but we stress the big picture and most of them buy in.

Our hs coach attends the initial try-outs, and weighs in on the cuts being made and placement of players. We have weekly discussions through the Fall, Winter and Spring on what we see and from who. He'll also come and participate in practices and attends games in the Fall. He'll give us feed back on what the current underclassmen are struggling with and we'll quickly make that a focus.

I think something else ms ball provides is training for the parents. We have very strict rules when it comes to parents interacting with their kids. Most of them have always coached and have a hard time letting go. We do not allow them to talk or coach their kid during games or practices. You can see them crawling the fences going crazy not being able to hold lil Timmy's hand.

We've only had this program in place for a couple of years, but the ones that choose not to play for us are very much behind the ones who do. They hit the ground running when HS ball starts and the ones that just play travel ball are struggling being underclassmen AND making the adjustment from travel to school ball. We'll always have parents that care more about the name of the travel team their kid plays on more than anything. I tell all the parents that the last time I checked pro and college scouts aren't hanging around ms aged baseball fields. Most colleges go off of what your stats are on the HS team. So why not focus most of your training on having the best hs career possible?

I'm sure I'm going to get shot down pretty hard here but I really believe in our program so I felt the need to defend it a little. I'm ok with body blows, just stay away from my face! That's how I make my money!

quote TheRick:
I was actually approached by the HS coach about getting this program started. His reasoning, which I agree with, is that travel ball is all about trophies and what 'showcase' or 'world series' you go to. None of which prepares players to play hs baseball. Which, I think we can all agree, travel and hs ball are played differently.

TheRick,
While it sounds like you are doing a very good job training and teaching young baseball players, and I agree that kids should play school baseball, I don't agree with these statements.

If a kid is playing baseball, working on his game and improving how does that not prepare kids for school ball? Most of the better players at all levels of school ball play for travel teams these days. It has been my experience that the players who play for teams that have good coaching and encourage off season workouts are more prepared for the school season, whether middle school or high school.

I also don't know how they are played differently. If you are referring to playing time issues, maybe I see, but most younger travel teams only carry 11-12 kids so all kids should get enough time. But the basics of pitching, hitting and fielding, if taught properly, are obviously the same.

Also scheduling conflicts may occur. IMO school schedule should take priority over travel schedule. Travel teams should work their schedule around the middle school schedules.

Whether I agree with you or not, I think you are providing a good service to these young players.
Keep up the good work.

Rick, sounds like you have a great MS program.

Obviously, all school districts are not the same across the US. In our area of Tennessee, the schools refuse to let the kids play any non-MS tournaments. (Something about a rule that is unique to TN that says a kid playing school ball can't participate in non-school ball during the season.)Our MS programs are very limited.

At any rate, the reason my kid is skipping school ball is because he wants to play other school sports that occur during baseball season: Track, Tennis, etc. He also is in a pretty good travel program that is frequently playing East Cobb caliber programs. Like them or not, East Cobb is a bench mark for youth baseball. If you can compete with them, at their tournaments, it usually means your playing at a very competitive level.

I know that when high school approaches, my son will need to narrow his sports choices, but right now, he's using MS to get exposure to many sports. MS seems just a little too early to specialize. So, he's trying them all and will ultimately "let the competition determine which sport he chooses'. Yes, this is a gamble as we know the HS coaches may have their favorites, wealthy booster's kids, and tenured players; but, that's a chance my son is willing to take so that he can get a diversity of exposure to other MS sports.

quote:

travel ball is all about trophies and what 'showcase' or 'world series' you go to.

I disagree. We created a team to get kids ready for high school ball. Eleven of fourteen are starting as sophs. One quit baseball to focus on basketball. Two will start as juniors in powerhouse programs.

The other day my son commented about the 13U season. He said, Remember how ****ed parents were when you changed kid's positions? In high school we're all playing the positions you switched us to." The one exception my son forgot will play that position next year after the senior graduates.

There are three kinds of travel teams:

1) trophy hunters
2) player development
3) daddyball for mediocre talent

When the kids were fifteen we moved them up to 16U to play stiffer competition. We didn't win any tournaments that year. But it prepared them for high school.

Trophy hunters don't teach. They accumulate talent. But these teams aren't the majority. I would say daddyball teams are the majority.

There are also teams that win a lot of tournaments who have acquired a lot of talent, but also teach. Fillsfan's son plays in such a program. The kids who last to 17U end up playing college ball.

My sons summer team is a developmental team---more practices then most--more 1 on 1 coaching--small time team not a pricey moneymaker with an indoor facility for winter (Illinois)--play in many quality tournaments with best in country--and always competative. Fundamentals are stressed and practiced. Coach bends over backward not to interfer with high school ball--says both are important--I agree (also agreed there is a place for middle school ball and summer coach agreed and told my son to make as many fall ball games and practices that he could but go to his school games and practices first).

I think I owe travel ball coaches an apology. I lumped all the travel ball coaches in one category and that was very unfair of me. There are some GREAT travel ball coaches out there, a number of them on this site.

RJM, I would agree with your assessment that there are three types of travel ball teams. I would contend that the trophy chasers and daddy ball programs are in the majority in this area. For example, I currently have several players that play for some of the more respected travel ball organizations here. Not a one of them can lay down a bunt or take a pitch the other way to save their life! I actually had one of them tell me that they're use to playing 'gorilla ball.' I was unaware that Skip Berkman was in the area!

Fills, I'm by no means anti-travel ball. I believe they should play travel ball, if they can, in the Summer and I actually coach one, so I don't mean to come off so harsh. I love when I see a well run, well coached travel ball program, and there are plenty of them.

The issue I have is the quality of teaching. I've seen a decline in the caliber and the selection process of programs over the years and more and more teams pop up. At this point everyone plays on some kind of travel ball team and some how they all go to a state tournament or a world series of some kind. You get all these parents telling me that their kid plays for (name one of 25 travel ball teams in their age group) and they went to the (name one of 20 world series) last year so everyone should be VERY impressed. Then heaven forbid a HS coach or MS tell a player something diff than what their travel coach says!

I would LOVE if every one's priority during travel ball was to develop players and get them ready for the next level. I just don't think that is always the case from what I've seen. Which makes it frustrating to be put on the back burner as a MS coach who only cares about the future and development of the player.

I think "travel" ball is a badly misused term..at least in my area.

I started coaching "Travel" ball at 9U. Why?

Well because there were 11-12 local boys who all played baseball together, who were all above average, and who all wanted to be able to play more baseball. The rec quality here is pretty horrible..and before people jump up to label me an elitist...it's simply because the talent is SEVERELY watered down at the rec ball level in my area. The reason? There are 2 Little League Programs, 2 Ripken / Babe Ruth, and 1 Pony League affiliate available JUST IN MY COUNTY.

So you have kids that will go to the same HS together, but wouldn't be able to play rec ball together because of where they live. And you have kids who can play for several different leagues by where they live.

The sad fact is this...I know 12 kids right now...all 12 years old, that ALL can legally play in the LL Program where I've coached All Stars. Of the 12, I have coached 10 of them in the past, and know the other two very well. Of those 12, 5 will go the same HS. 4 others will go to another HS..and the remaining 3 will go to a newly built HS. The Reality is (and I'm sure it's NOT the norm) at least 9 of those kids should play HS Ball...

Those 12 as team would have a legitimate shot at the LL World Series. 6 of 'em are legitimate pitchers. Two of them currently play up at the 13U level and at 46ft they would be downright dominant. 8 of those kids regularly hit the ball out of 300ft parks. 7 of those kids are above average in size, speed and ability. And all 12 would LOVE the chance. Problem is only 5 of 'em are playing LL...and it's not the kids' choice...


And let's define "TRAVEL" ball. At 9U it was Sunday double-headers / 3 ways with other teams at local fields, mixed in with a few local tournaments. We did take a 9U team to the "World Series". It was one of the best vacation weeks I can remember during ball season. We rented lake houses, and had a blast water-skiing, tubing, fishing, swimming, BBQ'ng..oh yeah we played some baseball too. It was 4 hour drive to that tournament. That's the only place we played that was more than 45min-1 hour away from us.

At 10U it was the same. Except no "World Series". Local tournaments. One over nighter at the Beach.

Of those 12 kids at 9u, 10 will have legitimate shots at playing High School Ball. All 10 still play "travel" ball. None of those 10 kids have Middle School Ball in their area.

And to the poster who's experience of travel ball kids not having "fundamentals"...my experience is the exact opposite.

The surrounding areas who do have Middle School Ball? Only one area has what I call a "strong" program. Meaning "Strong" as in good coaching and kids that are getting the competition and teaching that will help them play at the higher levels (such as HS). And to no surprise, that area has a STRONG HS Program and the HS coach is involved with the MS program. The other areas are pretty sad. Coaches who don't know anything about baseball....One was a s****r coach who had never even played baseball..and yes I'm serious. Things such as one kid I know who did not make the MS team as a 6th grader...no big deal normally. Except this kid was probably one of the best players in the area. It was no big deal when he didn't make it in 6th grade. Then he didn't make it in 7th either. The county rezoned their area that year....it put the kid in a different school zone. He made a strong HS JV in 8th, and started V as a FR. The only that changed was the boundary on which school he went to.

Even now, our local HS has a Dad helping coach at the V and JV levels...he started several years ago. His older son is a good ball player...the younger, not so much...complete with a really nasty attitude. Guess who made the JV team over a couple of kids who were much better?

While I know it's not that way in many places, it can be here. I've seen great student / athletes leave the public school system because of it. I watched an exceptional kid go out of HS Baseball in 9th grade, after just moving to the area. The kid in question was already 6'2 and built well...WITH speed. Had always played football, basketball and baseball. The kid told his Dad he'd rather just play baseball and basketball if it was okay. Said he liked football, but not as much as the other two. The kid was ALREADY on the JV team and practicing with the V as a 9th grader, when the baseball coach found out that the kid wasn't going to play football. The coach told him if he didn't play football, he didn't play baseball...and yes I'm serious (Head baseball coach / assistant V football coach). The kid was also a straight A student in Honors / Prep courses. He ended up getting an ACADEMIC scholarship to a private school where he played baseball and basketball. Ended up playing college baseball for 4 years, and is now coaching at a small HS....

While there are kids who are good enough that politics won't hurt them, it can sure discourage them.

And sure there are plenty of trophy collectors at the travel level, as well as daddyball (mainly my kid didn't make your travel team, I'll show you, we'll start our own team)...that's not what ALL of it is about.

I had a parent approach me about what I plan to do for my "travel team" this Fall when we go 13U. I told him I would hold tryouts, because the roster would grow to 13-15 kids. He said why so many? I told him that probably 5-6 of the kids would make JV as 8th graders, so we'd need extra kids, especially for pitching. I remember asking a coach of a 13U team that I know, if he was keeping an eye on how much pitching his players were doing on their school teams? He just looked at me like I was nuts....

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
shouldn't MS, Frosh, & JV ball be a part of the Varsity coaches program ?

It's not necessary. HS coaches should be able to see who can play during tryouts their freshman year. A lot changes from 6th to 9th grade and a lot of kids playing in 6th grade won't even be around in 9th grade. Even making freshman and JV ball don't guarentee a player won't get cut at some point.

IMO, players in frosh and jv are still proving to the coaches they belong in the program. Once they make varsity is usually where they're locked in and not likely getting cut unless they quit or screw up in school. Varsity players typically are competing for playing time or have a defined role on the team, not whether they make the team or not.