Scouting Players At PG Events

TPM’s post is very accurate. The possible exception being who is doing the write ups.

@adbono posted:

TPM’s post is very accurate. The possible exception being who is doing the write ups.

Not 100% sure but not the kids at the desks! I also got the impression  that write ups are for the same reason "possibly" as the grades and rankings. I am pretty sure that coaches don't look at them either!

Somebody will tell you you're wrong despite your extensive baseball network, knowledge, and experience with college players, coaches, and the recruiting trail. Because "data" and job titles.

@PABaseball posted:

Somebody will tell you you're wrong despite your extensive baseball network, knowledge, and experience with college players, coaches, and the recruiting trail. Because "data" and job titles.

Sorry not understanding, someone will tell me that I am wrong about what?

@TPM posted:

Sorry not understanding, someone will tell me that I am wrong about what?

You're not, it was a comment made in jest saying somebody will come around telling you why you're wrong - despite the above mentioned resources.

Oh ok lol. You are probably right!!!!

How does the coach know which players to go watch in the first place?  I'm assuming it's from trusted contacts.

@anotherparent posted:

How does the coach know which players to go watch in the first place?  I'm assuming it's from trusted contacts.

You don’t go to a major PG event to throw spaghetti off the wall to see what sticks. A 17u player should be on a team with a coaching staff with credibility and contacts. The player is recommended to be checked out by travel team to colleges coaches that are a potential fit.

My son sat down with his coaches to match his academic fits with his and their baseball fits. He was presold before each event. The college coaches were informed of the team schedule and location.

Even a friend who is the coach of a ranked D3 does this at the right events for D3. He knows every reputable high school and travel coach in his region. He goes to events with a list of players to check out.

My daughter did the same thing for softball. She had her list and was presold. She was discovered by a school not on her list. It was the best tournament she had that year. She chose to attend the school. It was one of the best for her major. She wasn’t planning on attending college 1000+ miles from home.

@TPM posted:

Speaking for himself of course, he relies only on live and past video and stats from Diamondcast, as do most coaches and scouts. He, like most, forms his own opinion.

........

Sometimes you might see a coach just sitting in the stands, more than likely he is there as the second pair of eyes, before  a decision is made, although the entire staff has seen the Diamond Cast video and gathered what's needed to move forward in the process. It's not because he saw the grade or ranking!

Agreed with everything you said except I'm struggling with this part (that the coaches are relying on stats from DiamondKast).  I'm not saying you are wrong, but if you are correct, I would be very concerned bec of how inaccurate the DiamondKast info are.  Just this past WWBA, my son was credited with 2 hits that should have been ROE.  In one of his games, a play was once recorded as a line out to the... catcher.  I was chatting with a kid that goes to my son's HS that was a PG scorer before a game and he said that DiamondKast does not even have the capability to record a sac bunt.  It's always recorded as an at bat.  Every time I see parents jumping on the PG scorer during or after a game to get a stat corrected, I just roll my eyes.  Well, they may have been right and have the last laugh all along if it is true that coaches rely on DiamondKast stats...

Coaches are looking far more at how the player swings the bat (quality at bat) and his process at the plate than DiamondKast.

@atlnon posted:

Agreed with everything you said except I'm struggling with this part (that the coaches are relying on stats from DiamondKast).  I'm not saying you are wrong, but if you are correct, I would be very concerned bec of how inaccurate the DiamondKast info are.  Just this past WWBA, my son was credited with 2 hits that should have been ROE.  In one of his games, a play was once recorded as a line out to the... catcher.  I was chatting with a kid that goes to my son's HS that was a PG scorer before a game and he said that DiamondKast does not even have the capability to record a sac bunt.  It's always recorded as an at bat.  Every time I see parents jumping on the PG scorer during or after a game to get a stat corrected, I just roll my eyes.  Well, they may have been right and have the last laugh all along if it is true that coaches rely on DiamondKast stats...

Oops.  I misunderstood what was explained to me.

Basically my question was to the coach, do you use PG grades or rankings to go watch a player and the answer was neither, I prefer  DiamondKast . He told me that he can watch a game in person and get game info and STATS from the game being played on the neighboring field. Just can't be in two places at one time.

So, my bad on the misunderstanding.

Coaches don't make offers on stats, as I am sure that you  are well aware.

Which brings up the  question asked by anotherparent.

RJM did a great job of answering correctly how it works. If a player has an advisor familiar with the coaches, that can help as well.

All programs do things differently. In many cases, not to repeat, the HC or RC has received an email sent by the player, or a travel program or HS coach they trust or have recruited former players in the past or a ML scout let's the program know he has a recruit they need to invite to their camp. Coaches  recommend players to other coaches all the time.

And very important, IMO, they have relationships with national travel teams.

Last but not least, you come to a game to watch a player and you really are impressed with someone on the same or other team.

Thanks, that's what this thread needed, for anyone who reads it.

PG, PBR, etc. sell the idea that having a profile/grade/ranking will get college coaches' attention.  What TPM and RJM (and others) point out is that a player usually has to get the coach's attention first through some personal connection.

Travel organizations sell their ability to get college coaches' attention, that can be on the national or local level.  And maybe that is more legit than showcases (although also more expensive).

Travel organizations sell their ability to get college coaches' attention, that can be on the national or local level.  And maybe that is more legit than showcases (although also more expensive).

It’s not more expensive if the team is subsidized. I spent a lot more money getting to where my son played than the team fee cost me.But it was my choice.

@anotherparent posted:

Thanks, that's what this thread needed, for anyone who reads it.

PG, PBR, etc. sell the idea that having a profile/grade/ranking will get college coaches' attention.  What TPM and RJM (and others) point out is that a player usually has to get the coach's attention first through some personal connection.

Travel organizations sell their ability to get college coaches' attention, that can be on the national or local level.  And maybe that is more legit than showcases (although also more expensive).

The problem is that only a few travel ball orgs actually have the coach connections to successfully promote their players. They sell the public that they do but in most cases it’s a false promise. The single biggest complaint I hear from parents is that their travel ball org didn’t do enough (if anything) to get their kid recruited. Word of mouth still plays a bigger part in recruiting than most people realize.

@TPM posted:

Oops.  I misunderstood what was explained to me.

Basically my question was to the coach, do you use PG grades or rankings to go watch a player and the answer was neither, I prefer  DiamondKast . He told me that he can watch a game in person and get game info and STATS from the game being played on the neighboring field. Just can't be in two places at one time.

So, my bad on the misunderstanding.

Coaches don't make offers on stats, as I am sure that you  are well aware.

Which brings up the  question asked by anotherparent.

RJM did a great job of answering correctly how it works. If a player has an advisor familiar with the coaches, that can help as well.

All programs do things differently. In many cases, not to repeat, the HC or RC has received an email sent by the player, or a travel program or HS coach they trust or have recruited former players in the past or a ML scout let's the program know he has a recruit they need to invite to their camp. Coaches  recommend players to other coaches all the time.

And very important, IMO, they have relationships with national travel teams.

Last but not least, you come to a game to watch a player and you really are impressed with someone on the same or other team.

That makes more sense.  Thanks for clarifying.  I think they still should take the play by play and the game stats with a big grain of salt (they probably are already).  The only think I trust in the game stats is the score and the velo readings.

I want to echo how coaches recommend players to other coaches.  We've experienced this first hand when a mid-major ended up not offering my son.  But the recruiting coach likes him a lot and made a point to recommend him to other coaches.  Do not ever ever burn any bridge, even when you feel like you were treated unfairly by a coaching staff.

@atlnon posted:

The only think I trust in the game stats is the score and the velo readings.

Ok, the point I was trying to make, by the time the coach has sat down to watch the player at a game, he has already seen the player on Diamond Kast video, not looked at PG grade or ranking.

@TPM posted:

Ok, the point I was trying to make, by the time the coach has sat down to watch the player at a game, he has already seen the player on Diamond Kast video, not looked at PG grade or ranking.

Totally agree with this.  The videos are really useful.  One thing I've wondered about is if DiamondKast can automatically create highlight videos of a specific player from all the angles (more than just the view from the backstop that we see when we watch the game with the cheapest DiamondKast subscription option).  I know there are other angles (like the closeup from the side) based on the cameras I see on the field and the twitter posts that PG puts out there.  If so, this would be an amazing tool for the coaches.

@atlnon

I think that can be done in the plus version. I just know he said it does everything.

We pulled up a friend of mines son who is a pitcher. The comment from him was that his "stuff" was much better than his stats.

@adbono posted:

The problem is that only a few travel ball orgs actually have the coach connections to successfully promote their players. They sell the public that they do but in most cases it’s a false promise. The single biggest complaint I hear from parents is that their travel ball org didn’t do enough (if anything) to get their kid recruited. Word of mouth still plays a bigger part in recruiting than most people realize.

A kid I coached in LL and ongoing friend of my son was on the B team of a prominent 17u program. They gave him the pitch. They did nothing for him. He received his offers from Head Start. He went HA D3. He became a D3 All American.

Scouting at PG events all depends on the level of play of the players and coaches.  P5 coaches do it totally different than mid major coaches and so on.  Many smaller schools will not go to the big PG events because they are looking for the local kids so they will go to more local tournaments or HS events.  I don't think you go to PG events hoping to be seen because unless you are playing a big team or on the big fields you may never be seen.

A friend complained his son’s teams of D3 prospects went to the 17u national championships, played on far away fields and never saw a college coach. They also got the crap beat out of them a few times. I had warned him. But he paid a recruiting consultant $1,500 who knew better.

@RJM posted:

A kid I coached in LL and ongoing friend of my son was on the B team of a prominent 17u program. They gave him the pitch. They did nothing for him. He received his offers from Head Start. He went HA D3. He became a D3 All American.

Son was on the "B" team at 17U for what was at the time the most prominent org in the state.   His B team ended up with more guys actually getting playing time in D1 than the "A" team.....including a guy who is in AA in the Tigers organization.  Nice thing was that my son was a SS and also a reliever.  The games he was going to relieve the starter was the guy now in AA......a 6'5 lefty that was 90-92 at the time.  There was never a game where there were less than 40+ top level coaches there when he threw.  This worked out great because  a lot of those games my son was starting at SS and then would come in in relief....so coaches got to see him do both.   In the games he wasn't at short a lot of the coaches would leave as soon as the big kid was done because my son was a 5'11 RHP who was only throwing 88-90 lol.  It worked out for him in the end I guess

@Buckeye 2015 posted:

Son was on the "B" team at 17U for what was at the time the most prominent org in the state.   His B team ended up with more guys actually getting playing time in D1 than the "A" team.....including a guy who is in AA in the Tigers organization.  Nice thing was that my son was a SS and also a reliever.  The games he was going to relieve the starter was the guy now in AA......a 6'5 lefty that was 90-92 at the time.  There was never a game where there were less than 40+ top level coaches there when he threw.  This worked out great because  a lot of those games my son was starting at SS and then would come in in relief....so coaches got to see him do both.   In the games he wasn't at short a lot of the coaches would leave as soon as the big kid was done because my son was a 5'11 RHP who was only throwing 88-90 lol.  It worked out for him in the end I guess

When I was a kid Legion ball was the thing. A lot of players on our team benefitted exposure wise from playing with a future P5, first round pick.

@RJM posted:

A friend complained his son’s teams of D3 prospects went to the 17u national championships, played on far away fields and never saw a college coach. They also got the crap beat out of them a few times. I had warned him. But he paid a recruiting consultant $1,500 who knew better.

My first kid, a 2023, played on the B team for a sizeable travel org.  Was always out in the hinterlands and never had a coach at those games.  An undersized but athletic MIF, it took me awhile to figure out his pond.  Ultimately, we did though: one of the few D2 out there with really good academics. I can say that the travel org had NOTHING to do with where he ended up.  The D2 actually didn't even call his travel coach; just the HS coach and then watching him play.  We had paid a consultant $1200 and found him invaluable in negotiations and advice.  I listened carefully, read between the lines, and figured a D1 was not going to happen.  So I do think if you get one that is skilled and honest there is value.  Nowadays the rate of most of these consultants is $4 to 8k which is a little too rich for my blood.  But if your kid has HA goals, I'm pretty sure some of these specialized ones can definitely make a difference with certain schools.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

My first kid, a 2023, played on the B team for a sizeable travel org.  Was always out in the hinterlands and never had a coach at those games.  An undersized but athletic MIF, it took me awhile to figure out his pond.  Ultimately, we did though: one of the few D2 out there with really good academics. I can say that the travel org had NOTHING to do with where he ended up.  The D2 actually didn't even call his travel coach; just the HS coach and then watching him play.  We had paid a consultant $1200 and found him invaluable in negotiations and advice.  I listened carefully, read between the lines, and figured a D1 was not going to happen.  So I do think if you get one that is skilled and honest there is value.  Nowadays the rate of most of these consultants is $4 to 8k which is a little too rich for my blood.  But if your kid has HA goals, I'm pretty sure some of these specialized ones can definitely make a difference with certain schools.

The player in my post got lucky. At the end of the 17u travel season his travel coach took the head coaching job at his #1 HA D3 choice. The coach took him along.