TRhit, so everyone is sure of what you are saying, do you believe the 1/10th of a second number is accurate, or not?
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
Trhit, do you believe you can recognize location, speed and spin in 1/10th of a second?.......Let's put it like it is....Do you think you can?
Your ability to recognize spin will assist in your determination of location. How hard is that for you to understand?
As for your silly and sophmorically deceptive questions - please save them for those less experienced in the game and/or the English language. They dont seem to be working here IMO.
P.S. The least you could have done was rephrase the question to make it even more "challenging". LOL
How about - "is it possible to recognize speed, location and spin - and breathe and have blood flowing through your veins and hear audible sounds and stand on two feet and load and swing and etc... in 1/10th of a second."
Just silly nonsense dog. Silly silly nonsense IMO.
BlueDog,
Please explain how your 1/10th of a second pitch regcogition time was determined.
Please explain how your 1/10th of a second pitch regcogition time was determined.
Blue Dog, its actually about 4/10th of a second for a 90 mile fastball. A 90 mile per hour fastball travel at 132 fps. So 60.6 inches it would take it .46 seconds to get to the plate. So I do think you have a point about speed and location, not much time to see spin, it be hard enough to just see the ball, they dont call it throwing BB's for nuttin......lol
One would have thought that an expert hitting instructor would know that it takes .46 seconds on the 90mph's trip.
Just a personal observation FO.
I hit a baseball from the time I was 6 until I was 38 years old. From 50 mph to 90 mph.
I certainly wish I had more talent - but I think I performed pretty well - and more importantly - I enjoyed myself and I still love the game.
My dad - as Callaway wisely recommends - used to pitch BP forever - and we would practice picking up spin.
When I cheated - he buzzed a fastball by my head. LOL
Now - along comes the doggie - an anonymous internet troll. Here is what the dog spews out:
You cannot see spin. You never saw spin. MLB All-Stars cant see spin. Seeing spin isnt important. Seeing spin doesnt help you determine location.
Despite all the evidence to the contrary - this relentless troll continues his nonsensical rants.
You just gotta love the internet.
I hit a baseball from the time I was 6 until I was 38 years old. From 50 mph to 90 mph.
I certainly wish I had more talent - but I think I performed pretty well - and more importantly - I enjoyed myself and I still love the game.
My dad - as Callaway wisely recommends - used to pitch BP forever - and we would practice picking up spin.
When I cheated - he buzzed a fastball by my head. LOL
Now - along comes the doggie - an anonymous internet troll. Here is what the dog spews out:
You cannot see spin. You never saw spin. MLB All-Stars cant see spin. Seeing spin isnt important. Seeing spin doesnt help you determine location.
Despite all the evidence to the contrary - this relentless troll continues his nonsensical rants.
You just gotta love the internet.
Another pratfall for Doggie, going back to an earlier post
The batter is too hung up on spin to recognize the speed of the pitch is what you say---in my book spin tells you something about the speed AND TYPE OF PITCH THAT IS COMING
Doggie I hope you are screwing up all those kids you are supposedly helping--by the way I truly love your profile--it says absolutely NOTHING--NADA---ZERO---
What is really funny is that I am not the only one seeing tru you--please don't take this as a personal thing--I am just stating fact--you are sham !!!
The batter is too hung up on spin to recognize the speed of the pitch is what you say---in my book spin tells you something about the speed AND TYPE OF PITCH THAT IS COMING
Doggie I hope you are screwing up all those kids you are supposedly helping--by the way I truly love your profile--it says absolutely NOTHING--NADA---ZERO---
What is really funny is that I am not the only one seeing tru you--please don't take this as a personal thing--I am just stating fact--you are sham !!!
I don't mean to interrupt the debate in this thread, but I thought I would share something that happened recently to my son, an '06 catcher from Southern California. Several months ago we went to a new optometrist for my son's annual eye exam. He is Dr Bill Harrison and he works with many amateur and pro athletes.
After completing my son's vision testing he was quite excited and told us that my son had the best baseball vision testing results that he had seen in many years. He said the baseball player with the best vision results in his more than 20 years of testing was Jason Giambi at age 17. He said my son's baseball vision was very close to Giambi's at this age. Dr Harrison works with many major league players including the Giambi brothers, Mike Sweeney. Barry Bonds, Greg Maddux, George Brett and also many major league baseball organizations. He is quite renowned in his field.
He told us that he has tested the vision of most of MLB's baseball's power hitters and the one thing they have in common is their excellent baseball vision and their ability to "see the ball". He asked my son if he is able to swing the bat and what kind of hitter he is. My son told him that he bats 3rd or 4th in the line up and is pretty much a line drive hitter. He led his team in batting and on base percentage the past 2 years. I then added that each year he also leads the team in walks to which he responded that he was hardly surprised at this, because of his ability to see the ball so well. He said that it would be a fairly easy transition for him to become a power hitter as he gets stronger, because of his excellent baseball vision.
He developed a training system and works with 2-5 MLB teams each year in spring training and many individual MLB players. He has drills that train players to improve depth perception and focus on the ball at release rather than the pitchers motion. The players eye tends to react to motion and follows the feet and the hands but he teaches a player how to switch their vision right on to the ball instead of the pitchers arm. Harrison feels the priority at the plate should be focus instead of mechanics and seeing the ball deeper into the pitch until contact. I am just a mom and I may not explain this all correctly, but I believe this was the jist of what he does.
He gave my son an eye drill and had him do some drills on the computer (See http://www.slowthegamedown.com).
In the next 2 weeks he actually hit 3 homeruns, 2 of which were in their last CIF playoff game. I don't know if the visual training had anything to do with his HR's but my son said that the ball looked like a grapefruit and he could see it real well.
I know he feels that my son's baseball vision is so special that he wanted to speak with some of the MLB clubs knowing my son was about to finish is junior year in high school. When we told him we felt he would be going the College route he also offered to contact the head coaches of any schools he is interested in. We will be taking him up on that offer.
TRHit - This is your email buddy who moved to SoCal from Long Island. My son is now showing some interest in the schools your way. Will you be holding anymore showcases this summer or in the fall? If you have an opening for a catcher pls let us know.
My son was at the PG WWBA 17u and 18u tournaments in Georgia this month with his ABD team and the coach said some of the IVY League schools expressed interest in him. Of coarse I know they don't offer athletic scholarships but I know he was interested in BC also. Harvard, Yale and U of Penn I think were the schools who spoke with his coach.I know it's all about the "right fit" but we want to be sure of all his options.
Thanks. RP
After completing my son's vision testing he was quite excited and told us that my son had the best baseball vision testing results that he had seen in many years. He said the baseball player with the best vision results in his more than 20 years of testing was Jason Giambi at age 17. He said my son's baseball vision was very close to Giambi's at this age. Dr Harrison works with many major league players including the Giambi brothers, Mike Sweeney. Barry Bonds, Greg Maddux, George Brett and also many major league baseball organizations. He is quite renowned in his field.
He told us that he has tested the vision of most of MLB's baseball's power hitters and the one thing they have in common is their excellent baseball vision and their ability to "see the ball". He asked my son if he is able to swing the bat and what kind of hitter he is. My son told him that he bats 3rd or 4th in the line up and is pretty much a line drive hitter. He led his team in batting and on base percentage the past 2 years. I then added that each year he also leads the team in walks to which he responded that he was hardly surprised at this, because of his ability to see the ball so well. He said that it would be a fairly easy transition for him to become a power hitter as he gets stronger, because of his excellent baseball vision.
He developed a training system and works with 2-5 MLB teams each year in spring training and many individual MLB players. He has drills that train players to improve depth perception and focus on the ball at release rather than the pitchers motion. The players eye tends to react to motion and follows the feet and the hands but he teaches a player how to switch their vision right on to the ball instead of the pitchers arm. Harrison feels the priority at the plate should be focus instead of mechanics and seeing the ball deeper into the pitch until contact. I am just a mom and I may not explain this all correctly, but I believe this was the jist of what he does.
He gave my son an eye drill and had him do some drills on the computer (See http://www.slowthegamedown.com).
In the next 2 weeks he actually hit 3 homeruns, 2 of which were in their last CIF playoff game. I don't know if the visual training had anything to do with his HR's but my son said that the ball looked like a grapefruit and he could see it real well.
I know he feels that my son's baseball vision is so special that he wanted to speak with some of the MLB clubs knowing my son was about to finish is junior year in high school. When we told him we felt he would be going the College route he also offered to contact the head coaches of any schools he is interested in. We will be taking him up on that offer.
TRHit - This is your email buddy who moved to SoCal from Long Island. My son is now showing some interest in the schools your way. Will you be holding anymore showcases this summer or in the fall? If you have an opening for a catcher pls let us know.
My son was at the PG WWBA 17u and 18u tournaments in Georgia this month with his ABD team and the coach said some of the IVY League schools expressed interest in him. Of coarse I know they don't offer athletic scholarships but I know he was interested in BC also. Harvard, Yale and U of Penn I think were the schools who spoke with his coach.I know it's all about the "right fit" but we want to be sure of all his options.
Thanks. RP
quote:So 60.6 inches it would take it .46 seconds to get to the plate.
This is not pitch recognition time, but total time.....Big difference.....There are other things to get done in this .46 seconds, like swing the bat, for example.........Surely, nobody believes they can wait till the ball gets to the plate to swing the bat?....Or, does someone actually believe this other than Itsinthegame or Trhit?.....
A good portion of the .46 seconds is taken up with the act of swinging the bat.....And, you can't swing until you recognize the pitch.....So, what portion of the .46 seconds is used for pitch recognition?.....
quote:He has drills that train players to improve depth perception and focus on the ball at release rather than the pitchers motion.
This is moving in the right direction......As I said before, don't get in a rhythm with the pitcher......And, learn to use your depth perception to recognize pitches......Good stuff........
A very small portion of the .46 seconds is actually used to swing the bat. That is, the head of the bat goes from pointed toward the catcher to square to the path of the ball in less than .10 seconds. The head of the bat travels about 4.5 feet from being pointed to the catcher to squaring up. The bat is traveling faster at impact but we can assume about a 50 fps average velocity during the swing so the important portion of the swing takes 1/11 of a second or .09 seconds out of .46 seconds. Most of the .46 seconds is used for pitch recognition and simultaneously moving the bat into position to begin the swing. The lead in to the swing is a nearly continuous adjustment of a pre-programmed motion.
Hitters use all sorts of cues to pick up on what a ball is going to do. Arm angle, arm speed, angle of the wrist at release and spin on the ball all play into the equation. People who have actually played baseball have seen the spin on a ball and adjusted to it.
Some spins are easier to pick up on than others. A 12 to 6 curve doesn't look that different from a 4 seam fastball because the only difference is if the spin is going forward or backwards and that is hard to pick up. A 9 to 3 curve is a bit easier to pick up the spin on.
In fact one of the reasons many consider a good straight change to be the most effective off speed pitch is because hitters can't pick up any difference in the direction of the spin.
Hitters use all sorts of cues to pick up on what a ball is going to do. Arm angle, arm speed, angle of the wrist at release and spin on the ball all play into the equation. People who have actually played baseball have seen the spin on a ball and adjusted to it.
Some spins are easier to pick up on than others. A 12 to 6 curve doesn't look that different from a 4 seam fastball because the only difference is if the spin is going forward or backwards and that is hard to pick up. A 9 to 3 curve is a bit easier to pick up the spin on.
In fact one of the reasons many consider a good straight change to be the most effective off speed pitch is because hitters can't pick up any difference in the direction of the spin.
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
And, you can't swing until you recognize the pitch.....So, what portion of the .46 seconds is used for pitch recognition?.....
I thought you said you dont need to recognize the pitch?
Just see location and speed.
Which is it dog?
Make up your mind.
What scares me here is the time factor
Are the hitters using a stopwatch?
Let me put it this way-- "its" son played for me and is a fine hitter but he reacts differently than my son in the batter box--but both are fine hitters each doing what is right for them
Doggie--I am not talking theoretically or "VIRTUAL" --I am talking REAL-- good hitters hit--bad hitters don't And you cannot change that
Are you a "VIRTUAL TEACHER" ????
I think so and so do others !!!!@
Are the hitters using a stopwatch?
Let me put it this way-- "its" son played for me and is a fine hitter but he reacts differently than my son in the batter box--but both are fine hitters each doing what is right for them
Doggie--I am not talking theoretically or "VIRTUAL" --I am talking REAL-- good hitters hit--bad hitters don't And you cannot change that
Are you a "VIRTUAL TEACHER" ????
I think so and so do others !!!!@
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
This is moving in the right direction......As I said before, don't get in a rhythm with the pitcher......And, learn to use your depth perception to recognize pitches......Good stuff........
Excellent advice dog. Also remember to run after you hit the ball.
And when in the field - remember to wear your glove.
Lastly - always wear clean underwear when you leave the house.
Great stuff. No mas for me.
BD,
LOOKs to me like you wuz stonewalled.......
LOOKs to me like you wuz stonewalled.......
BlueDog, I have a question for you. I agree that recognizing location and hand position at the release point are important in determining the swing but also spin is important. I would like to hear your ideas of how to teach hitters to handle these two situations. 1. First pitch 90 mph fastball outside corner for a strike. Second pitch is an 87 mph slider that starts at the same point and at nearly the same speed. I would tell my hitters to look at the hand at release point and then see the spin to recognize the slider or they will be out. What approach would you give your hitters. Situation 2. How do you teach your hitters to predict movement of a 2 or 4 seamer if they do not recognize the diffeence? A hitter that knows that a pitcher is throwing a 2 seamer realizes the ball will run and can swing to where the ball will be. If he swings at simply location he will be jammed every at bat. A hitter that recognizes a 4 seamer can realize that the ball will not have the tailing motion but will rise. If a hitter cannot recognize these 2 pitches they cannot take a healthy cut. Location and speed will not help in this case. What would you advise your players to do? Just curious, thanks for the input.
Hsballcoach, all pitches drop, none rise....But, that's another topic....
To answer your question, I tell hitters to clear their mind and let their brain do it's work......
I'm assuming you want your hitters to see the spin so if do they recognize a slider, they don't swing.....Am I correct?
To answer your question, I tell hitters to clear their mind and let their brain do it's work......
I'm assuming you want your hitters to see the spin so if do they recognize a slider, they don't swing.....Am I correct?
BlueDog, a rising fastball is an age old term for a ball that is thrown with high velocity and due to the 4 seam spin on the ball it maintains its plain for a longer period of time, countering the affects of gravity longer than the 2 seamer. As for the question about the slider; in this case (one in which I am thinking of a pitcher that uses a hard slider as an out pitch and it is thrown at near fastball velocity at the same location as an outside fastball but breaks sharply off of the plate out of the zone) I would want our hitters to be able to recognize the pitch and be able to lay off of it or they will be another strike-out victim. As I said before I am just curious as to how you would get your players to recognize and not swing at this pitch. Speed and location are nearly the same as a fastball so what approach would you try?
BlueDog,
hand in hand with vision in a high speed ballistic event, is visual reaction time. our physical reaction to what we see and in some cases anticipate.
something that may have relevance to this thread.
[URL=http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=112&view=findpost&p=1933178]
if the link does not take you directly to the particular post i'd like you to read, it is the 10th post from the top.
hand in hand with vision in a high speed ballistic event, is visual reaction time. our physical reaction to what we see and in some cases anticipate.
something that may have relevance to this thread.
[URL=http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=112&view=findpost&p=1933178]
if the link does not take you directly to the particular post i'd like you to read, it is the 10th post from the top.
forgive my ignorance. this is the url. i botched entering it as a link. i will learn.
http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=...w=findpost&p=1933178
http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=...w=findpost&p=1933178
Hsballcoach, how about a situation when the slider starts out on the outside part and the ball hangs?........Do you take the strike because the ball was a slider?
If you're up against a pitcher who has a nasty slider that is working, perhaps you may want to hit the outside plate fastball he is setting you up with and stay away from a two strike slider out pitch.....
If you're up against a pitcher who has a nasty slider that is working, perhaps you may want to hit the outside plate fastball he is setting you up with and stay away from a two strike slider out pitch.....
Blue Dog
Is that another your incorrect pearls of wisdon--"all pitches drop --none rise"--where did you get that from?
The more you try to impress ,the more you detract from yourself--it is truly disappointing
Is that another your incorrect pearls of wisdon--"all pitches drop --none rise"--where did you get that from?
The more you try to impress ,the more you detract from yourself--it is truly disappointing
Callaway posted earlier in this thread about the importance of seeing lots of pitches in BP.......His post seemed to have been overlooked....That's unfortunate because that post has much relevence to this topic....
The brain is an amazing thing.....Show the brain different pitches in BP and it will pick up those pitches in a game......Sliders react differently from fastballs early on.....Whether speed, movement or both, they are different....The key is for the brain to see those pitches alot and for the hitter to use his vision properly.......Understand what is going on in the pitching/hitting process.....
http://www.hitting-mechanics.org/movabletype/archives/2...test_of_big_pic.html
CADad, looks like your numbers were all wrong....Imagine that.......
The brain is an amazing thing.....Show the brain different pitches in BP and it will pick up those pitches in a game......Sliders react differently from fastballs early on.....Whether speed, movement or both, they are different....The key is for the brain to see those pitches alot and for the hitter to use his vision properly.......Understand what is going on in the pitching/hitting process.....
http://www.hitting-mechanics.org/movabletype/archives/2...test_of_big_pic.html
CADad, looks like your numbers were all wrong....Imagine that.......
Ray, thanks for your input.....
It is important to know that the brain needs time to process information.......
Breaking the pitching/hitting sequence down in actual time is so important.....There must be a method to the madness.....
It is important to know that the brain needs time to process information.......
Breaking the pitching/hitting sequence down in actual time is so important.....There must be a method to the madness.....
How do you recognize those different pitches? Spin ie rotation of the basball.
TR,
Actually BlueDog is essentially correct in saying that no pitches rise. The only pitches that have ever risen are those thrown by submariners. My numbers show that it may just be barely possible for a Tom Seaver type who gets down so low that he releases from relatively close to the ground throwing a 4 seamer high in the zone to have the ball not drop but in general BlueDog is correct. In all cases, the ball is dropping relative to it's initial trajectory.
BTW, hsballcoach made it clear that he understands what a "rising" fastball really is very well.
Actually BlueDog is essentially correct in saying that no pitches rise. The only pitches that have ever risen are those thrown by submariners. My numbers show that it may just be barely possible for a Tom Seaver type who gets down so low that he releases from relatively close to the ground throwing a 4 seamer high in the zone to have the ball not drop but in general BlueDog is correct. In all cases, the ball is dropping relative to it's initial trajectory.
BTW, hsballcoach made it clear that he understands what a "rising" fastball really is very well.
For all, good hitters capitalize on mistakes...ie: fastballs that catch to much plate or hanging curves or sliders that dont slide enough....period....a good pitcher with numourous weapons will shut down bats if he is on with them. Comon this aint rocket science. When the pitcher has his best stuff he can be nasty, when not well, hitters pad thier stats....lol.
dwill
For some it is "rocket science"---instead of keeping it simple they go to physics, claymation, formulas, computers etc---- the game aint that hard and the beauty of the game is its basic simplicity
Why think so much ? It all comes down to the individual players physical ability to react in each given situation--Good hitters do not think they react---Good fielders do not think they react
For some it is "rocket science"---instead of keeping it simple they go to physics, claymation, formulas, computers etc---- the game aint that hard and the beauty of the game is its basic simplicity
Why think so much ? It all comes down to the individual players physical ability to react in each given situation--Good hitters do not think they react---Good fielders do not think they react
Yogi Berra once said "who can hit and think at the same time"
I don't recall anyone saying hitters should think in the box.......Just the opposite, I have always said hitters should not think in the box......
People like Trhit just don't know how to listen........
People like Trhit just don't know how to listen........
BlueDog
Oh esteemed one--- I have no audio on my computer when it comes to forums--- how do I listen with no audio?
I was making a statement nothing else
Oh esteemed one--- I have no audio on my computer when it comes to forums--- how do I listen with no audio?
I was making a statement nothing else
