Selfish

As that relates to team sports, it is ...

Team, Player:  Although all of the players are someone's family, team still comes before player.

I get your corporate analogy but I would also think that greedy, selfish corporations tend to have employees instead of team members.

My question would be if that your sons coach wants him to be a PO, then he has to replace him as a catcher.  He must be quite comfortable with the new catcher he plans on using.  Is it possible the new catcher is a better all around player than your son?

There's essentially only two reasons to do this from a coach's point of view.  One is that you have better options at C, so you need to put this players skills to use elsewhere, and the kid's next best position is P.  The other is that your pitching is so bad that even if this kid is your best C he's enough better than the alternatives at P that you're better off with him P and someone else C.  

 

Based on the description from OP, I'd assume the former, though.

There's always transferring to a different school. But sometimes the grass is greener on the other side of the fence because it's planted over a septic tank.

One question that I haven't noticed being asked, is: "How does your SON" feel about the coaching decisions. From my own observations over the years of sitting and observing the team players & their parents, it is usually the parents doing the grumbling, complaining, and questioning a coaches decision. And not the team players. I know for fact that our 2013 would be mortified & would not stand for it. By High School, a student / athlete begins to cut their ties of independence and begin to spread their wings, and think & act for themselves. And hopefully, we as parents have laid the foundations for them,  by our own examples, for them to do just that.  But, there will always be parents that don't lead by example ...probably why we often sit way down on the sidelines, and watch and enjoy the games in peace and silence.

That's been brought up but seems to be ignored. he is a good hitter.  I think that because catchers aren't always the best hitters people think that is not important.  There are other things that do become important as one enters the next level.  But top D1 programs will not put a catcher in as everyday starter unless he hits well, the other stuff isn't as important.   So not sure how someone thinks that a good pop time will get you a college scholarship and a D1 and you would play everyday.

BTW, most catcherc are utility guys, the OP stated he doesn't play other positions well.

 

Be happy you are on the team and stop whining!  Don't put so much importance on what goes on in HS, what about a summer travel team, play that position, or perhaps you are not good enough to be catcher? 

 

Jp24

Great response and a great idea.  That task has become more difficult due to his lack of plate appearances and the fact that he’s only 2016 his boy muscles haven’t propelled the ball deep, except for a wind aided fly ball.  Yes this school has a lot of quality players, so it is difficult to differentiate them from each other.

 

My player he has clearly been differentiated by his excellent pop times; no one is close.  All the other catcher skills are also very very good.   However, AVE, OBP, ERA, (all the other stuff), he grows closer to the group of competitors and he is not separated from them.

 

As he continues to work at pitching he is not as talented nor separated from his pitching competition.

 

P.S. I'm sorry, I just realized there are more pages of postings and I need to respond to them next...

Sometimes I just scratch my head and wonder...

Coach has said all the typical anti catcher stuff to him to discourage this path:

1) Knees

2) Poptimes do not win ballgames.  In fact, if I put you at catcher they'll bunt instead and you won't have many opportunities to demonstrate your skill anyway.  It would be a waste, because your quickness will not be utilized.

3) If you got a tremendous bat you'll eventually be moved from catcher anyway.

4) Pitching is what the team needs and what wins ballgames.  I need you to be a pitcher and I'll put another kid who does not have pitcher potential and who is 90% of what you are at catcher, but will do just fine for the team.

 

Shelby (not TPM) I originally put the wrong name here

Great Question - he feels fine, he like the change, he like competing and he didn't have any competition at catcher (he's that good).  However, I (not him) see the future and he will fall back amongst the pitcher competition and will not bat as much on this path that he's on.  I'm afraid - He is not.

Me too!

 

 

Back to TPM...

You got a tone to you in how you type.  Maybe you're not what I think you are?  Maybe you're a bored housewife with a lot of time on her hands?  I'm not really sure, but I think I detected a tone in your response that is saying to me => "shut up, suck it up, and go back home".

I somehow missed that this was all about a freshman.  So, you're worried that a freshman who hits 84 with his fastball, runs a 7.1 60, and has sub-2.0 pop time somehow won't be able to play D1 ball?

 

If that stuff is even mostly true, take a look at this page, http://www.perfectgame.org/eve...ters.aspx?event=1303, and relax.

I originally thought the same. Those numbers for a 2016 and he isn't athletic according to dad????  Huh?

 

I would like to point out that you are stating that his hitting is sub-par largely because he is only a freshman and still has boy muscles.  Yet, when it comes to pitching, you are sure he can only improve from his current 84 to 86-88.  I think you are perhaps underestimating his potential as a P and a bit too fixated on the one strongest aspect (POP) of his catching skills. 

 

I have three grown kids who were all involved in several HS sports and some college, I coach at the V HS level and I feel one of my best strengths is objectivity.  That said, even after my last son (college baseball player) graduated HS, in hindsight, I realize that the "parent" in me sometimes overly focused on his best strengths when trying to measure how he "stacked up".  And, BTW, he had to do the reverse of what you are describing during his HS senior year.  He was the most effective P for varsity his soph and junior year but the team needed him to switch his focus to a position player his senior year.  

Maybe you are not who/what you want us to think you are.

I and others gave you good advice but as we have seen lately when one doesn't get the response they get upset.

I just cannot beleive that anyone who plays team sports would see this as selfish.

 

I think you are just playin' with the weekend crowd.

 

Basballbrick, if nothing else this has been an entertaining interesting thread.  

 

However:

• I wonder...do you think it's selfish for a team/coach to ask a batter to take on a 3-0 count to help the team? 
• I wonder...do you think it's selfish for a team/coach to ask a player to lay down a sac bunt to advance a base runner?
• I wonder...how anyone can really think it's selfish for a team/coach to ask a FRESHMAN to play something other than their chosen position on Varsity?

 

• I wonder (hope)...if you are just pulling our leg?  I half expect someone like Fungo, Justbaseball or Coach May to pull the mask off and say "GOTCHA"  ,

 

Count me among those who now thinks this is a scam post. Beyond the obvious ...not listening, over-focused on the wrong stuff, etc., changing story ...  the name is BRICK -- as in THICK AS A ...

I just figured out how to do this quote thing, maybe I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box?

jacjacatk, I took a look at the list above and I'm not sure how those kids got on that list, or what that list is, but I did take a look at some (not all) of the numbers and they weren't that good, maybe that was your point???

 

Yes, my son can play D1 at the position of catcher.  Yes, he is a good catcher, but he does not rank that well at the position of Pitcher.  That is my point.

Yes he's good at catcher, over the past year we have run into 5-6 catchers who were better than him in some areas, but only one had pop times similar to him.  The other 4 were superb hitters rocking the ball all over the park, playing for various high quality travel teams.

 

Again, I'm comfortable with him at catcher he can compete, which is why I would like him to stay in that direction.

OK, I think given the weight of the evidence presented here, that it's possible you should be looking here or maybe here for future guidance.

• to take on a 3-0 count NO 
• lay down a sac bunt to advance a base runner NO
• to ask a FRESHMAN to play something other than their chosen position on Varsity - "Chosen Position?"  He's playing pitcher on JV to prepare himself for Pitching on Varsity.  He's not good enough to pitch on Varsity this year.
• I wonder (hope)...if you are just pulling our leg?  I half expect someone like Fungo, Justbaseball or Coach May to pull the mask off and say "GOTCHA"  I do not understand, what do you mean???

Why are teams who look out for #1 (the Team) not also labeled as selfish?

OK the player (his dad) is selfish for looking out for his #1.

The Corporation is selfish?

Lawyers? Republicans? Rich People? Unions? Dolly Parton?

Why isn't the team ever accused of being selfish?

That`s funny.  He's too slow for soccer, but Lacross sounds like a winner.

If I can letter in it, anyone can.

Let me get this straight. We're approaching the summer of 2013 when it's prime time for 2014s to showcase. And a poster is worried about what position his 2016 plays in high school. Can I shake my head now? 

 

What's so difficult about this situation? So much can change from freshman to summer after junior year. The kid will develop physically. He could improve and beat out the other catcher at some point. But regardless the kid could find a summer team where he can catch. Then maybe between high school and summer ball he becomes a prospect as a pitcher and a position player.

I strongly resent the fact that one can type in so#$er and have it actually show up as a real word.  MINMOM, what is going on here?

Lather, rinse, repeat...

 

You've been given two pages of logic that is counter to your argument but it's obviously not helping you out (or at least not supporting your argument).  You seem to be a majority of one on this one...good luck with that.

 

In all seriousness, I do hope that you are keeping your feelings from your son so it doesn't spread over into the team dynamic or worse yet that he starts to share the same issues.  Two or three years from now if/when the recruiters call your coach they are going to ask about his character, it would be a shame if some of the "me over team" came out.  It could cost him in the long run.

OK, sometimes, I'm a bit slow on the uptake but now we have plenty of info from Brick.  So, you say he is not very athletic, he has weaknesses that would be exposed if he played 3B and he still has a lack of power with his bat.  Yet you say he is capable of playing C at the D1 level.  At this point, it is definitely too early to tell because he lacks many of the skills D1 requires.  A good POP time alone is definitely not enough to cut it. 

 

You acknowledge that your son is in a very strong program with many players that are going places and the coaching staff identifies your son as having strong potential to contribute as a P and you question their guidance as being selfish? 

 

You have ignored solid advice/replies (including mine) that argue your mostly apples/oranges arguments regarding selfishness of "team" (HS ACT/SAT testing, lawyers, etc.) which clearly indicates you are just fishing for support that your son should remain a C in HS and there is little anyone can say to try to help you see otherwise.

 

There is SO much more to excelling at the C position than POP time.  He must be a great hitter (with some good power for college), must have vocal leadership skills, baseball instinct, athleticism, physical and mental toughness, leadership, blocking and framing skills, real "student of the game" mentality, ability to take a beating and play banged up on a regular basis, know how to work with different pitcher personalities, etc., etc., etc.  If the only strength you can point to as one he excels at is POP time, even if it is world class, that's not necessarily enough.  The coaches are probably right on the money in spite of your concerns.  Done spinning my wheels here...

 Best of luck...

 

If your son is as great a catcher as you say, then I'd say this coach is being unselfish to use him only as a pitcher.  If he were selfish he'd catch your son on the days when he's not pitching, which would help the team, but put undue stress on your son's arm and risk injury.  You may want to thank the coach for not saving your son's arm.

Just briefly wanted to stop in here to say thank you to the OP for some of the best entertainment value I've seen in these parts in quite some time. If this is all a joke, which I think (certainly hope) it is, then bravo to you. If its not, well, best of luck to you, your son and most importantly, his coaches that have to deal with all this.

 

Really, once I read this part of the post by the OP I had a problem.  No Marine is using small "m's" to write that word.  From the sound of it, I think it's a good thing that my brain cramped after that.

I rest my case.

 

Go back and read my posts and see how I wrote. lol

 

Writing it with a small m just can't be done! I dont care HOW inadequate your composition skills are!

 

I think this thread has run its course as most have already said. Only time will tell if the OP got it, or not. For his sons sake I really hope he did.

Exactly.  No Marine has that amount of disrespect.

 

YoungGunDad knows what I mean.  End of story is correct.

This whole thread has gotten comical.

 

First of all, I'm not sure where the OP lives...but a 6'+ 2016 throwing 84 is very good...

 

Second....a team with 3 kids throwing 90+ and 5 at 86+ would be one of the top HS programs in most states.

 

Third....a 2016 with a 1.9 POP time is almost unheard of

 

Fourth....if my kid was  throwing 84 as a freshman, still didn't have "man-muscles", and was at a school that obviously can develop pitchers....I WOULDN'T BE WORRYING ABOUT HIM BEING A CATCHER!!!

 

A friend had a son graduate HS last year.  He would have been drafted VERY HIGH as a catcher (Top 5 rounds) had he not made it clear he was going to college.  He is at an SEC school...and is 0-8 on the season.

 

They recently put him on the mound in practice....and he hit 97.  First time he'd thrown from a mound since 8th grade.

 

I guess my point is this....if he'd have been pitching in HS in stead of catching, he's likely not a backup catcher right now....he's probably pitching professionally someplace.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

B: Bullheaded

R: I'm Right, no matter what others say!

I: I don't want your Input; I want VALIDATION

C:Clueless

K:Kid ain't as good as you think

 

Sorry, BRICK, but when you come here and play mindf games, you get reality. Whether you're fake or real, you waste people's time: People who are far more interested in posts like BSBALLMOMS's about a young man actually making it after a lifetime of WORK.

 

Weigh in again when you have something useful to say, Marine.

 

From a legit 10-year NAVY vet and dad of another 2016.

Holly crap, do you guys have a job, kids, wives?  Do you do anything but spend time on this site ridiculing (I used spell check) trying to win your point of view.  I’ve been away for just 24 hours and together you have solved everything, but the question at hand.

  

“You pencil-necks are probably desperate old umpires trying to relive your children’s’ failed dreams and rekindle memories of when they used to play.”

 

NOTE: what I just wrote above was based on no valid information at all.  None of what I wrote had any factual basis.  None of it was pertinent to this topic, nor was it an appropriate accusation.  I only wrote that to illustrate you.

 

“Stop hunting bear with 9 shot”

I’m going to be away for at least 48 hours, so go ahead and attack everything I wrote, spelling punctuation (another spell c heck) and try to answer the question; why aren’t teams capable of being selfish?

 

1.9 as a 2016 is damn good, 84 is just good.

1.9 as a 2016 is damn good, 84 is just good.

 

Neither is ENOUGH.

Did you even read Cabbagedads post about all it takes to be a good catcher???????
Sub2.0 pop time is the least of being a good catcher. There are so many other skills that go into being a great catcher. My son is a D1 college catcher, only has at best a 1.9 pop time and yet excels at his position because of things like blocking, calling the game, being a team leader, etc.

As you watch more baseball and learn more you may figure out what people are trying to tell you. As a freshman parent your job is to support your son and his high school coaches.

And don't come back here and bash us- it's getting old. If you don't want advice why did you come here?

Teams are "selfish."  By definition, their goal is to put the pieces in place to win.  That means that individual goals and accomplishments may need to give way to allow the team to win.  That is what a team is all about.  And that is what being part of a team is about.  If you don't like it, then don't be part of the team.  Take up golf. 

 

 

I would even question the sub 1.9 pop time, from an "unathletic" kid.  To get that kind of pop time, I think you need some fast twitch muscles and athleticism.  And as was pointed out, there are many aspects of being a catcher.  One thing that hasn't been included is that many bases are stolen on the pitcher, not the catcher.  Good luck.