Recently a number of high profile draft prospects got tossed off their college team for various offenses, many criminal. Such as DWI's, theft and drug use.
Should a college coach recruit a troubled recruit?
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quote:Recently a number of high profile draft prospects got tossed off their college team for various offenses, many criminal. Such as DWI's, theft and drug use.
Many? Who?
TD, With all due respect, this seems to be one of those topics where it would be better not to encourage the naming of names...
HC....good call.
Why bother with a troubled prospect. There are too many other prospects with the same upside that lack the potential downside/problems. A troubled prospect would have to be a potential HOF'er to bother with the risk.
Does this refer to football also or just baseball?
quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Does this refer to football also or just baseball?
I think it should apply to college athletics in general. I'm with TG on this. while recruiting as a whole is a gamble, why take a bigger gamble on a kid with a history. If they are worthy they will find a home, but with the basket so full of good apples, and there is so few dollars to spend, why buy one with a worm in it.
quote:Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
TD, With all due respect, this seems to be one of those topics where it would be better not to encourage the naming of names...
Your right there, wasn't thinking, just havn't heard of "many" "draft prospects" getting booted from baseball team for criminal activity.
Never mind anyway.
The world will always have its Tom Osbornes to harbor the talented head case.
I always liked the standard of...would you approve of him dating your daughter?
I always liked the standard of...would you approve of him dating your daughter?
Self-inflicted troubles --- DUI, drug, PED's --- I agree that there are too many talented players out there to go down that path. Time and resources would be taken away from the rest of the team who played it straight in order to to babysit a player with a history.
quote:I always liked the standard of...would you approve of him dating your daughter?
That's a pretty tough standard. I would have trouble finding any players for my team
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
I always liked the standard of...would you approve of him dating your daughter?
Followed up with.....
If you make her cry... I'll make you cry
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If they are worthy they will find a home, but with the basket so full of good apples, and there is so few dollars to spend, why buy one with a worm in it.
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I agree that it sure seems like a high risk venture to take a troubled kid. But it would get very difficult on where to draw the line. Do you throw out all the "tape worms" and keep "ring worms". I use grub worms to fish with, so we should keep the grub worms!
We are talking about HS prospects here, you can't draw the line on criminal records, in most instances under 18 draws no criminal charges. Do you look at school records back to 9th grade where some kid got caught cheating? The school my son goes to does not differentiate between cheating on a test and coping a math problem off some one else. You get a zero and a report in your file for cheating even though you were the one that did the homework and let someone else copy it.
If they are worthy they will find a home, but with the basket so full of good apples, and there is so few dollars to spend, why buy one with a worm in it.
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I agree that it sure seems like a high risk venture to take a troubled kid. But it would get very difficult on where to draw the line. Do you throw out all the "tape worms" and keep "ring worms". I use grub worms to fish with, so we should keep the grub worms!
We are talking about HS prospects here, you can't draw the line on criminal records, in most instances under 18 draws no criminal charges. Do you look at school records back to 9th grade where some kid got caught cheating? The school my son goes to does not differentiate between cheating on a test and coping a math problem off some one else. You get a zero and a report in your file for cheating even though you were the one that did the homework and let someone else copy it.
Kids who have been in trouble do get signed. Most of the ones I know have changed plans due to scholarships revoked, but usually got a second chance. One had his ACC NLI recinded, ending up Big 12, all conference and a 2007 1st round pick as a junior. He probably should have been in jail the last 3 years for what he did, imo.
If the kid is good enough he can find a place to play. Coaches call them "axe murderers", code for trouble.
If the kid is good enough he can find a place to play. Coaches call them "axe murderers", code for trouble.
I'm not sure that would leave enough candidates to field a team.quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
I always liked the standard of...would you approve of him dating your daughter?
Boy, would you like to see my shotgun collection?
If I were a college coach I would look at it on a case by case basis. I do not believe that just because a kid makes a mistake in life he should have his opportunities taken away from him. I would look at what happened , when it happened , how he handled it , what has he done since the incident etc etc. There are alot of kids that have never been in trouble but only because they were not caught. Maybe a kid that has been caught has learned a valuable lesson and will be less likely to let it happen again? Im not for taking thugs that are constantly in trouble and have no character. But I also believe in second chances and those that learn from their mistakes need someone to believe in them. jmho
Well said, Coach May
" should colleges recruit a troubled prospect? "
Define " troubled ".
What about plagiarism, assault, disorderly conduct, etc.????
I think each scenario should be dealt with individually,...case by case. JMHO.
Define " troubled ".
....thats a pretty broad view.quote:Such as DWI's, theft and drug use.
What about plagiarism, assault, disorderly conduct, etc.????
I think each scenario should be dealt with individually,...case by case. JMHO.
We spend most of our kids life keeping them away from bad influenecs. I certainly would nor want him playing with a troubled player. I know my son would not want that kind of guy around either. His roommates have been outstanding young men so far.
People Please, How do you know what child your child is playing with??
Did we not all watch "Leave it to Beaver" when we were growing up.
Do you, Are Do you not remember Eddie Haskel.
He wasn't a bad kid, Just needed some guidance.
Take the time to understand the situation.
JMHO
EH
Did we not all watch "Leave it to Beaver" when we were growing up.
Do you, Are Do you not remember Eddie Haskel.
He wasn't a bad kid, Just needed some guidance.
Take the time to understand the situation.
JMHO
EH
Let me just say this. There are types of kids that should not be in a program. Kids that are constantly in trouble and are basically thugs. You want kids with good character.
Having said that "Men, let me just tell all you young fellas this. When you go out on those streets remember this. The only difference between you and alot of the people you are going to be dealing with is they got caught and you didnt. Treat them with the same type of respect and dignity you would want to be treated with. And remember everyone deserves a second chance to right the wrongs in their lives".
Major Worth Hill Durham Police Department 1979.
Said to me by a great man. You have no idea who your kids are around. That nice quiet young man that says Yes Sir and No Sir and how are you today Mrs May could be the biggest BS shooter in the world. And as soon as you leave he is trying to get your kid to hammer down a bud. All kids make mistakes in life. Some get caught some do not. Sometimes the ones that have been caught have learned a valuable lesson in life and are very apprecitive of the second chance they should be afforded. And sometimes that clean Willy kid thinks he can do whatever he wants because he has slid by so many times before. Repeat offenders "No way I would recruit them". Case by case folks. Every kid deserves a chance to show that they have righted the ship. JMHO
Having said that "Men, let me just tell all you young fellas this. When you go out on those streets remember this. The only difference between you and alot of the people you are going to be dealing with is they got caught and you didnt. Treat them with the same type of respect and dignity you would want to be treated with. And remember everyone deserves a second chance to right the wrongs in their lives".
Major Worth Hill Durham Police Department 1979.
Said to me by a great man. You have no idea who your kids are around. That nice quiet young man that says Yes Sir and No Sir and how are you today Mrs May could be the biggest BS shooter in the world. And as soon as you leave he is trying to get your kid to hammer down a bud. All kids make mistakes in life. Some get caught some do not. Sometimes the ones that have been caught have learned a valuable lesson in life and are very apprecitive of the second chance they should be afforded. And sometimes that clean Willy kid thinks he can do whatever he wants because he has slid by so many times before. Repeat offenders "No way I would recruit them". Case by case folks. Every kid deserves a chance to show that they have righted the ship. JMHO
quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
...young man that says Yes Sir and No Sir and how are you today Mrs May could be the biggest BS shooter in the world. And as soon as you leave he is trying to get your kid to hammer down a bud.
"Who on earth could you be referring to Coach May?"
Coach May I have seen lots of those kids who can play you.
The guys this thread was geared to were just plain bad. My dad was a lawyer who dealt with criminals of the serious type. I watched court cases both here and in England and there are guys who are criminal. I am not talking about the Eddie Haskels of this world. My son had a few of those guys as friends at arms length. Never allowed to get close to them. 2 of them were BB players who went no where and were studs. One almost got beat to death at a party. Both drugs and alchol. He understands well what can happen. I could see the issues long before they got in trouble. Yes they were charming and yes sir types but you may fool me but not my wife.
The guys this thread was geared to were just plain bad. My dad was a lawyer who dealt with criminals of the serious type. I watched court cases both here and in England and there are guys who are criminal. I am not talking about the Eddie Haskels of this world. My son had a few of those guys as friends at arms length. Never allowed to get close to them. 2 of them were BB players who went no where and were studs. One almost got beat to death at a party. Both drugs and alchol. He understands well what can happen. I could see the issues long before they got in trouble. Yes they were charming and yes sir types but you may fool me but not my wife.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
...you may fool me but not my wife.
Oh my goodness! Ain't that the truth! You sir...are correct!
There are ways.
I'm sure you are momandcpa...I'm sure you are!
gee, give the guy a break .. at least he did the workquote:by momandcpa: Define " troubled "... What about plagiarism?
Kirk Herbstreet on the radio this a.m., there is a story everyday about some college athlete getting in trouble, just this past monday a football player arrested for solicitation of a prostitute, he was kicked off the team. The internet has brought to light stories that have been going on for years
His opinion, it's a sign of our times. Coaches have to adjust to what is acceptable and what is not. Should all kids who mess up get punished? His answer was no, but each case should be dealt with individually. Kids are kids, and stated he was one once himself.
His opinion, it's a sign of our times. Coaches have to adjust to what is acceptable and what is not. Should all kids who mess up get punished? His answer was no, but each case should be dealt with individually. Kids are kids, and stated he was one once himself.
No, colleges should not recruit troubled athletes.
Inviting trouble for the coach and team.
Inviting trouble for the coach and team.
hmm, the undercover officer who made the bust, is quoted as saying that she recognized him as member of the FOOTBALL TEAM she follows immediatly and .. "at a distance" ...quote:by tpm: Herbstreet on the radio .. this past monday a football player arrested for solicitation
it just seems fishy to me (pardon the 2 puns)
was she thinking like a cop, a ho, or a middle-aged groupy when SHE positioned herself to get HIS attention in the grocery store parking lot??
on a related note
Chicago sting victim sues city
Bee>,
I don't know the details, it was just something he was relating. But a good example that we hear stories and don't know all of the details, then make assumptions.
The actual conversation was really about Randy Shannon cleaning up the program at UM. He just mentions that incidences happen everywhere, everyday.
I don't know the details, it was just something he was relating. But a good example that we hear stories and don't know all of the details, then make assumptions.
The actual conversation was really about Randy Shannon cleaning up the program at UM. He just mentions that incidences happen everywhere, everyday.
details are trickling out, but suffice to say from the Chicago link above that a chick waving you over can be interpreted in a vastly different "CONTEXT" by "some guy just in the wrong place at the wrong time"
I do support "doing your time if you did the crime", but common now ...
what sane jury is gonna believe a backup QB needs to "buy luv" on a campus w/35,000 co-eds
I do support "doing your time if you did the crime", but common now ...
what sane jury is gonna believe a backup QB needs to "buy luv" on a campus w/35,000 co-eds
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:gee, give the guy a break .. at least he did the workquote:by momandcpa: Define " troubled "... What about plagiarism?
HUH?
oopsquote:by ssmommomandcpa: Define " troubled "... What about plagiarism?
Coach May...You hit it on the head and you speak with compassion and understanding. Recruiters, coaches and scouts should look at "troubled prospects" on a case by case basis. Most kids deserve a second chance. This I know, a kid can come from a fine family with the best parenting in the world. Still, some of our kids will succumb to peer pressure. We've seem it right here on this board. Compassion, people!
Isn't there a difference between "troubled" and a good kid making a mistake?
That's a good question, TripleDad. The difference between "troubled" and a good kid making a mistake is probably defined differently by a number of people. I think we would be hard pressed to come up with one definition that would make sense to everyone. Thus, the need to take it on a case by case basis. Just my humble opinion.
quote:gee, give the guy a break .. at least he did the work
Dear Bee>.....give the GUY a break?
Jeepers,...what about moi'???
Practically broke out in a sweat while running my fingers along the keyboard to dictionary.com to figure out how to spell the pesky word plagiarism.
Whew,....( hand dramaticaly brushing brow.)
I'm the one who needs the break!
( insert visual picture of the old rice krispie treat commercials where the mom would flick flour on her face so her family would think she worked all day on the treats. )
Mr. Woodsman, if you will,...( ssmom's fingers snapping ) we could use a photo, purty please!
Any resemblance to you shortstopmom? Junior High Home Economics class perhaps?
Talk about troubled prospects,.......
P.S. Woodman,...you are my picture postin' hero!
P.S. Woodman,...you are my picture postin' hero!