Should Pitchers Wear Helmets?

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Honestly, government intervention never really crossed my mind when considering this topic. I don't really think they are close to getting involved; but who knows?

The NYC school board banned metal after a tragic situation in a preteen youth baseball game in New Jersey. The event got a lot of NYC press. The board reacted. When interviewed it was determined none of the board members ever played baseball. It just seemed like the right thing to do based on the news. The decision should have been at the conference or state level by athletic/baseball people. There have been metal bat bans presented at the state legislative level in many states.

If HS and College were currently playing with wood, I doubt there would there be a public outcry--and discussions of helmet for pitchers-- every time a pitcher got his skull fractured.

Most people accept the principle that batted ball injuries off wood bats are an inherent and acceptable risk of the game.

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Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Honestly, government intervention never really crossed my mind when considering this topic. I don't really think they are close to getting involved; but who knows?

The NYC school board banned metal after a tragic situation in a preteen youth baseball game in New Jersey. The event got a lot of NYC press. The board reacted. When interviewed it was determined none of the board members ever played baseball. It just seemed like the right thing to do based on the news. The decision should have been at the conference or state level by athletic/baseball people. There have been metal bat bans presented at the state legislative level in many states.

RJM,
I'm a libertarian, and don't approve of gov't meddling, but it's important to get the facts straight. The NYC Council--not the school board-- banned non-wood bats.

It was a fair fight. Full debate. Not a hormonal decision by a school board. The bat companies spent hundreds of thousands lobbying against it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03...n/14cnd-bats.html?hp

I forgot the specifics. In NYC the school board is under the jurisdiction of the NYC council. I do recollect, as reflected in one of the council members quote in the article, many of the council members ignoring the facts and responding with "logic dictates." 1

But my main point to another post still stands. A government body has passed a law against metal bats. The prescendent has been set.

1 - Please don't anyone think I'm pro metal bat based on the statement. I don't want a government that ignores facts and decides on what "their" logic dictates.

I think we all agree that any decision on the matter should be made by baseball people.

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Just curious...has the predicted lawsuit by bat companies materialized in New York?

I noticed the NYC council vote was 40-6 anti metal bats. I think that margin is very representative also of coaches...

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Originally posted by OnWabana:
I think we all agree that any decision on the matter should be made by baseball people.

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Please dont be so presumptious. I dont agree with that at all.

I think - at this point - a decision should be made by a judge and a jury - in a court of law.

In a perfect world - I think that bat manufacturers, and those complicit in their relentless pursuit of money - including the NCAA - should be held accountable for the reckless disregard of the public's safety.

You can trot out as many "paid for" scientists as humanly possible - and you can display as many physics based pro-metal thesis as you like - but as Bob Dylan once said:

You dont need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind is blowing.

Metal bats have not only made a mockery of the game - but more importantly - they have exposed male and female athletes to reckless and unnecessary risks.

All for money.

Not for the betterment of the game - just money.

IMO.

stopped by a D2 game yesterday and enjoyed the sweet sound of a wood bat hitting a baseball.

only wish this was the norm throughout HS and college!

At least the scouts for these D2 players know exactly what the pitchers and hitters can do with wood bats... no guessing.

Little League should be at the forefront of going back to wood for the safety of the kids. I suppose the monies involved from the metal bat folks sway their judgement. That's my 2 cents!

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Originally posted by itsinthegame:

quote:

Originally posted by OnWabana:
I think we all agree that any decision on the matter should be made by baseball people.

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Please dont be so presumptious. I dont agree with that at all.

By 'we' I meant the few that were posting at the time. But, yeah, I understand how that seemed presumptious.

You obviously have a very strong opinion on this matter. I just question what taking this to the courts would do. It seems to me that there's a strong possibility that would incite a nearly endless cycle of lawsuits and counter-lawsuits. That might do more harm than good.

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if the wood bat manufacturer's had money to lobby what would be?

as itg said it's all about the money.

I don't think helments are needed but sometimes quick reflexes and a little help from above comes in handy. Everytime my son takes the mound I hope he can throw strikes and pray he can get out of the way if it comes back at him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27fV0bugNwA

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
Just curious...has the predicted lawsuit by bat companies materialized in New York?

A suit was brought by manufacturers (and others) as to whether the NYC Council exceeded its constitutional authority in banning non-wood bats. The judge upheld the Council.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08...nyregion/29bats.html

OK, I apologize for mentioning any political ideology, idiots or not. Let's just say that idiots in general think they have to protect us from ourselves. I do not agree that the seatbelt analogy is a good one to compare to baseball. Over the course of a season, millions of pitches are thrown without serious injury. Every few years, someone gets hurt badly, and that is very unfortunate, but it is part of an assumed risk in playing the game.

If you think the seatbelt analogy is a good one, then may I suggest that we also make everyone who rides in a car wear a helmet??? It would make about as much sense.

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Originally posted by 06catcherdad:

If you think the seatbelt analogy is a good one, then may I suggest that we also make everyone who rides in a car wear a helmet??? It would make about as much sense.

That wasn't the point. The point was the seatbelt law was just as controversial and volatile as helmets on pitchers...maybe more....and, contrary to your initial politcal assertion of who favors government intervetion...it was a conservative president who approved of and signed the law.

I didn't mention that to start a political batter, I voted for him. I just meant to demonstrate that these issues are not simply left/right issues.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Johnny P. Pitcher looks in to get his sign.

BOF, do you not take this seriously? Our pitchers will be wearing these this summer. Hopefully the difference between a headache and a CAT scan.

http://www.nationalsafetyinc.c...ball-Cap-insert.html

My guy will be on the mound in a matter of hours facing State College of Florida (Formerly Mannatee Community College, a JUCO). I have always had some level of concern while he is on the hill.

From what I have seen, there is nothing that is going to provide protection to a liner back at him. The hat insert is only going to cover the top third of his skull, the face shield with the glasses that some have mentioned does not protect the temple area or the throat...there is no solution to this dilemma.

I am a proponent of wood bats, for a variety of reasons, not all safety related...but accidents will still happen.

Learning to end in a fielders position to protect oneself as opposed to leaving it all out there trying to throw at peak velocity...yet we all need that velo...

I believe the game should be played with wood, the hat insert looks like a good idea, but won't cover or protect the face.

I said earlier, and it was crazy to see, but one of the last games I saw my son hit in he drove one right back at the pitcher hitting the bill of his cap and sending it flying into the air...a close call to be sure.

Lets start by going back to the way the game is supposed to be played, with wood. And maybe put some specs in place as to the minimum handle diameter so fewer bats become missles.

Individuals are free to protect themselves how they see fit, with the hat insert or the face protection built into the eyeglasses.

Heck, my guy plays the infield and pitches and I can't get him to even wear a cup, since he was 11...

SEATBELTS--- I was in an accident years back, prior to the seatbelt law--went thru the windshield and lived---Had I been wearing a seatbelt I would have been dead--the steering wheel ended up 3 inches from the drivers seat--I would have been crushed had I been wearing a seatbelt

Everything is relative

quote:

suit was brought by manufacturers (and others) as to whether the NYC Council exceeded its constitutional authority in banning non-wood bats. The judge upheld the Council.

THAT is exactly what frightens the heck out of me. They are going to make a law banning something from a game based on no factual evidence. In the original case, the Judge openly admitted there was no evidence that suggested metal was more dangerous but he moved forward with the verdict anyway. That is just wrong.

Am I alone in that opinion?

So what is next to go?


Main Entry: 2prec·e·dent
Pronunciation: \ˈpre-sə-dənt\
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 : an earlier occurrence of something similar
2 a : something done or said that may serve as an example or rule to authorize or justify a subsequent act of the same or an analogous kind <a verdict that had no precedent> b : the convention established by such a precedent or by long practice

quote:

Originally posted by 1baseballdad:
In the original case, the Judge openly admitted there was no evidence that suggested metal was more dangerous but he moved forward with the verdict anyway. That is just wrong.

The question before the judge was not whether one bat was safer than another. The question was did the council have the authority to do what they did. He ruled on the question before him. What you have him do?

This is exactly why anyone who loves the game should work as hard as they can to keep issues like thos OUT of the hands of politicians and the government.

This is absolutly frightening.

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U.S. District Judge John G. Koeltl said there is no clear evidence that metal bats cause more serious injuries than wooden bats but added that the City Council is entitled to make the judgment that the risk is too great.

"The protection of the health and safety of high school-age students is entitled to great weight," the judge said. "While the record does not include clear empirical evidence showing that more serious injuries would occur without the ordinance, it is the city's legislative assessment that the risk is too great."

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Wow...

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Originally posted by brute66:

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Originally posted by Jimmy03:

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Originally posted by brute66:
Helmets for pitchers won't happen.

Never say never.

In high school ball, helmets for fielders have gone from unknown and unreferenced to specifically allowed by rule. They could be just a law suit or two away from being required.

Last year I saw two players wearing them on defense, complete with face guard.

You may have something here. If the rule required pitchers wear helmets in all games where hollow bats are used, this problem would be solved overnight.

Bryce Florie might not totally agree.

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Bryce Florie might not totally agree.

Then again, since we're talking about high school baseball, he might agree completely.

Especially if his own son is on the mound.

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U.S. District Judge John G. Koeltl said there is no clear evidence that metal bats cause more serious injuries than wooden bats but added that the City Council is entitled to make the judgment that the risk is too great.

"The protection of the health and safety of high school-age students is entitled to great weight," the judge said. "While the record does not include clear empirical evidence showing that more serious injuries would occur without the ordinance, it is the city's legislative assessment that the risk is too great."

Like a few on here, the judge doesn't understand physics. Plain and simple.

Its kind of like this...if I told you there was a problem (explained by physics) with a specific model of commercial airliner...that would result in a 1-in-a-million chance of a catastrophic accident, would you want me to fix it? How about if it would cost you all an extra $10/ticket every time you fly? (BTW, I would have too). How about 1-in-a-100million? OK now? (Nope!)

Why would you advocate treating your own children differently?

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Its kind of like this...if I told you there was a problem (explained by physics) with a specific model of commercial airliner...that would result in a 1-in-a-million chance of a catastrophic accident, would you want me to fix it? (BTW, I would have too). How about 1-in-a-100million? OK now? (Nope!)

That is the safest airplane I have heard of.

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Originally posted by brute66:

quote:

Bryce Florie might not totally agree.

Then again, since we're talking about high school baseball, he might agree completely.

Especially if his own son is on the mound.

The post I was responding to stated:

"...If the rule required pitchers wear helmets in all games where hollow bats are used, this problem would be solved overnight."

The problem would not be solved overnight. Bryce Florie was drilled in the right eye. A helmet would not have helped. (It's on You Tube)Nasty!

All athletic endeavors are hazardous to some degree. Risk is inherent, understood and accepted. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for getting rid of hi tech bats and going back to wood/composite wood etc.

Sure we could put helmets on pitchers but then an incident like Florie's happens so what do we do? Put a shield over his face? I don't think that is going to work. Several years ago a minor league base coach was hit and killed by a line drive so the powers that be mandated that all base coaches wear helmets. The problem is that the coach who was killed was hit in the neck. The helmets these guys are now wearing would do nothing to prevent the injury that prompted their use. Should we require helmets for the fans seated outside the netting? There are warning signs all over the stadiums reminding fans of the risk and to pay attention though many don't. The fans know the risk and accept it. Common sense has to play a part.

Batters are constantly working to improve their ability to react to pitches. Perhaps there should be a similar focus for pitchers.

If you don't want to risk being a pancake don't jump out of a plane.

I don't think pitchers should wear helmets. They would simply have a difficult time throwing due to incorrect weight transfer could cause arm problems really. I agree with TRhit the fact that pitchers can protect themselves keeping their glove in front of them after release of the baseball instead of throwing the glove behind them. Tom House coined the term "squeeze and swivel" for this. If the glove goes behind the pitcher they won't be able to react to the liner.

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The problem would not be solved overnight. Bryce Florie was drilled in the right eye. A helmet would not have helped. (It's on You Tube)Nasty!

Ahhh...you missed my point and I apologize for being vague. By suggesting that mandating helmets on pitchers when hollow-core bats are used, I meant that teams would instead elect to play with wood or solid-bats since most pitchers would rather NOT wear helmets...therefore problem solved.

As far as pitchers improving their defensive posture, remember that high school hitters are ALWAYS expecting that 85 mph fastball to come in high and tight...they are ready to duck. It's a lot to expect from the high school pitcher who threw the 85 mph pitch to be ready for the 110 mph comebacker (like the one that hit Gunnar) since that happens much less frequently. Probably better that the comebacker isn't traveling quite so fast and less frequently.

quote:

Originally posted by brute66:

quote:

The problem would not be solved overnight. Bryce Florie was drilled in the right eye. A helmet would not have helped. (It's on You Tube)Nasty!

Ahhh...you missed my point and I apologize for being vague. By suggesting that mandating helmets on pitchers when hollow-core bats are used, I meant that teams would instead elect to play with wood or solid-bats since most pitchers would rather NOT wear helmets...therefore problem solved.

As far as pitchers improving their defensive posture, remember that high school hitters are ALWAYS expecting that 85 mph fastball to come in high and tight...they are ready to duck. It's a lot to expect from the high school pitcher who threw the 85 mph pitch to be ready for the 110 mph comebacker (like the one that hit Gunnar) since that happens much less frequently. Probably better that the comebacker isn't traveling quite so fast and less frequently.

It would if there was a helmet with a mask on it for face protection and temple/skulk protection.