Showcase ball and competitiveness

I agree to a point with the coach, but I bet a large number of his recruits came through showcases. Does he support Legion ball personally, or opt for the convenience of WWBA and Jupiter?

Most showcase players I know seem to be concerned about getting work done, winning, and moving on to the next level so they can continue the competition.

I don't know coach, perhaps nobody followed up with questions because they don't see Legion ball as top competition any longer. Vicious circle. Oddly enough, the crowd was there to learn from him in order to aid in player development. Vicous circle.

I didn't take it as he was necessarily advocating Legion over showcase ball but more along the lines of "back in my day we did this". They both did say that the vast majority of their recruits did come through Jupiter and places like that.

I'm not real sure where I stand on the subject 100% yet. I can see what they are saying and can see that happening but I just don't think we are there yet.

The exact meaning of the statement is puzzling to me. Maybe much of the audience was "unsure" of exactly they had just said which would explain why no one asked. Are Showcase Teams and Travel teams one in the same? Showcases are 1 or 2-day events and they are all about individual performance.

Certainly Travel Teams and WWBA/PG Tournaments are highly competitive and entails much more than just "getting work done." But Travel Teams are in essence a Summer All-Star team competing for a somewhat meaningless "Title" to many participants (who remembers next year). Where as competing for your High School or College for Championships, with your School Team members, is much more meaningful ( to my son anyway) and perhaps gives the feel of enhanced competition.

In any event, I can't make the connection from that to players being less competitive?

Perhaps what they meant was that when a player attends a tourney or showcase with lots of scouts and coaches watching some players are more focused on their own individual performance than the team winning. Let's face it, I am sure that most pitchers who comes into get 2-3 innings or a hitter to get a few at bats, in a showcase/tourney is there to get his work in that is allowed by the coach. How can an observer judge his true competitiveness with that? Many players (even in jupiter) show up for just their alloted time, do they care if their teams wins or not? As long as they put on a good show, that is what is important to them.
I think that one problem in recruiting is that some guys have great skills, but then have a hard time competitng mentally at the level they are playing, and then that takes hard work from the coach to toughen him up. That's probably one thing that may seperate the ones (at first) who get better scholarships than others, and the higher picks from the lower picks.

The beauty of LL and legion ball is where young players learn to be competitive and learn their skills, not showing off to the guy who is going to give him a scholarship or draft him.

Both these guys are pitching coaches, who also mentioned demeanor and mindset on the mound, which goes with competitiveness and I can see why they brought this all up together.

As one who oversees a travel/showcase team that plays in showcase tournaments I can tell you that our kids, and I have to think they are no different than kids on other similar teams, go on the field to win and at the same time show their best stuff.

Keep in mind if that you are not striving to win , which means playing your best, it will show.

In a pure showcase which is individual prwoess it is a different story---you are not part of a team.

I am not going to try an interpret what the coaches meant but just simply say that I belive kids on travle/showcase teams definitely play to win---attend a tournament they are in and see if you don't see their competitiveness and will to win

I know the coach from ECU well and I have had this conversation with him before. And he is not alone in his thinking on this subject.

What has happened is many of these coaches have made decisions on players with only a snap shot of the player. In their desire to beat the other programs to the punch on certain players they have offered without getting to know the players intangibles. Then the player gets on campus and they find out too late that the player doesnt have the intangibles to help them win. He can throw the hel out of the baseball but he cant pitch. He can pitch but he does not have the work ethic needed to have success at their level. He is not a team player. ect etc

They are victims of their own desire to rush to judgement on players based on trying to get the next big thing before someone else can. A player that is competitive and has a strong desire to compete and win is going to have that same desire regardless if its
a Legion game , HS game , showcase game or a pick up game. A player that is out there trying to impress and is only there because he is trying to get something for himself will have that same attitude regardless of the venue.

When I go to a Legion game to see a player I rarely if ever see a college coach. Maybe they should scout Legion? Maybe they should practice what they preach? Maybe they should spend a little more time getting to know what the player is all about instead of offering based on two innings and a radar gun reading?

Some programs do a great job of seeking out the intangibles and looking deeper into the player. Some dont. Some feel the need to be the first guy to the party and pick up the first good looking girl they can get. Others wait and take their time so they can make a better choice knowing the risk is a better looking girl might not show up. So to me its not the players job or fault if this is happening. I put this squarely on the college coaches. Do your homework and put in your work.

If college coaches were showing up in droves for the Legion games then kids would be playing Legion. If college coaches were not showing up in droves at showcase events then the players would not be as well. The player controls what he is doing and how he is doing it. He is either a competitor or not. He is either playing to win or playing to be seen. Its the coaches job to figure that one out. Some do and some dont.

At first glance many things look great. And at first glance some things dont look so hot. The harder you work , the more time you put in , the better decisions you can make. I dont believe this is the players job. I believe this is the college coaches job.

Great post Coach May!

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
If college coaches were not showing up in droves at showcase events

Do college baseball coaches get paid/compensated to show up at showcases. I know they do in other sports.

Antzdad,
I would suspect it all depends on the program, and I am sure that most that attend at least get their expenses. Big tournaments fill a need for both player and coach. For the coach with a limited travel budget, he gets to see more in one trip than several. The same for the player, he gets more bang for his buck than attending several.
I have found that most people and players come here asking about exposure more than competition, not that these tournaments don't have the best competition and players and coaches don't want to win.

You also won't find many of the long time HC's of the larger programs at tournaments or showcases, as their programs pay their assistants well to recruit. That's why some like being the HC, at that point in their careers they have others do it, the one exception I know is the HC from UF.

TPM

I do not know where you get your information , perhaps it is different in your world, but here in our region we see a load of Head Coaches at events and not just for one day but for the entire event

There are HC's that take a direct role in recruiting by that I mean actually go out to ID talent and follow up on it as well. And then there are those that leave the vast majority of this up to their assistant coaches. You are way more likely to see assistant coaches at showcase events around these parts. And you will always see the HC of the host site along with all of his assistants. At WWBA events there will many HC's in attendance along with the assistants as well. There are alot of places to be and alot of players to see.

I think you will find different answers to whether HC are at events, there are various factors which effect the answer such as; what school, D1's can only sent out a certain number of coaches (I think two) to an event and on a given day and if they are looking for numbers they tend to be assistants, some schools may not have that many paid coaches and the HC needs to go recruit.

Where they are on the recruiting cycle, the HC may go out after the player has been identified by the assistants and the HC is trying to close the player or verify how much they want to give a player. You may also see a lot of head coaches try to save the committed high profile player toward the draft day.

As to whether coaches get paid to attend an event, it also depends on the event, high visibility events, I have noticed schools are on their own ticket, less known events or events which are during quite period, seam to have coaches which are being paid to attend to "work" the event to get around the no recruiting off campus rule or to come to scout or work the event which helps market that they have coaches attend their event.

Going back to the original question about competiveness vs getting work done at showcases...

As a mere parent watching the various showcases and camps my son has been to, one thing that I've seen consistently from just about every kid...they are competing. I honestly don't think a 16-18 year old kid separates a showcase "game" from a real game.

Sure, a batter knows that he won't get to take first if he draws a walk, a pitcher knows he's only going to see at most 5 batters an inning, etc. But, I'll wager my best nickel that if you ask the batters, they all want to tag the ball, drive in a run, steal a base, etc. The pitchers all want to dominate, strand any runners they let on base, etc. The good players compete the minute they cross the white line, regardless of the venue.

Even during BP, INF/OF throwing, catcher pop times, the kids are watching each other and competing to do better than the guy before them. It's in their blood; heck, it's human nature. Any kid who's just "getting work done" probably doesn't really want to be there, or is such a stud that he doesn't need to be there. For the other 98%, they're competing.

Why? Maybe because they know someone who matters is watching. Maybe they hope their dream college is in the stands. Maybe they know that PG write ups get read by hundreds of pro and college recruiters.

Or, maybe it's because most of the kids realize that they're playing against a bunch of talented kids and they naturally want to up their game.
Hopefully they're not just doing it because Mom or Dad is in the stands, although I'm sure there's still some of that.

Regardless, I don't think it's necessary to worry about showcases diluting the competiveness of players. At least, not from what I've seen.

PD

I know exactly what the OP is talking about.

Showcasing is not evil and is actually a good thing but a player does need to distinguish between what he does in a showcase vs. what he does in a game.

In a showcase there are no penalties for a walk from a pitcher and the pitcher does not care so much about control. In a showcase he just needs to "top out" on his FB velo high because hey 94 is 94 and wow is that "projectable".

Forget that he can only hit the strike zone at 88.

In a showcase a batter can make a huge pop fly to the oppo field and scouts take notice and call it "future home run projectability"....

And, that is all fine in a showcase, showcasing is about self.


Games and tournaments are another mentality. And the mentality is what has gone wrong a bit not showcasing itself.

You get those same kids at a place like Jupiter and they forget Jupiter is not a showcase (...Or worse yet, they dont care ).... Places like Jupiter are a tournament and that pitcher who wants to throw 94 but can only throw 87 in the zone still throws 94..... And loses the game because he does what is best for himself by being a projectable wild 94 instead of keeping his team in the game with controlling the zone with the 87 he is good at. And the hitter who wants to show power takes the deep pop up out happily over contributing a single.

(I wonder if it is a coincidence that the young kids won Jupiter this year? It looked to me like the young guys were out winning when some of this years draft class was out showcasing in Jupiter this year.)

Now I am not saying all kids "showcase" during tournaments or during game time but some do and it is within those players that the problem exists.

The problem is not with showcasing. It is with the character of the player.

I hope scouts notice that.

From the first post I took from that , that it was about showcases that the teams just play innings and there is no real score.I think the Arizona Fall Classic went to that type of format.Teams just play, so many batters per inning etc.They use to play to win, and they had a championship etc.
I can see what the coaches see about this format.There is no real competition to win, therefore no real pressure on the defense as in a 1-1 game.Playing a game to win or lose brings out the intensity of a player and how they react under pressure.
AS well if a pitcher knows he is throwing to 5 batters only, he can let it rip, but your not seeing how he would do once through the line. '
anyway that is my take on it.

If a pitcher walks a batter and doesnt care then that is not a problem with the format but a problem with the player. Everytime my team takes the field our goal is to win. Play the game to win and everything else takes care of itself. Play the game , period.

Yes I see some teams , some players approach the game with a me mentality. But that it not a problem with Showcase baseball that is a problem with the player or the team and coach. I can tell you if a kid doesnt run out a ground ball he sits. If he hits a fly ball that is caught and he is not running as hard as he can he sits. If you dont hustle you sit. If you pout about anything you sit and if your already sitting you keep sitting. I want competitors , gamers , guys that simply love to play the game of baseball. And if they approach the game the right way and have the talent then everything takes care of itself.

I am not disagreeing with anyone here. Everyone brings up some great points. But the problem is not the format. The problem is players that approach the tourney , games etc with a me mentality and are so concerned with being seen they dont do the things that people are there to see. Just play the game to win. Play hard. And it all works out just fine.

College coaches do want to see how kids are going to react in certain situations. Those situations are there in every game. Its up to the player to show how he is going to react to those situations. A real competitor is going to compete his butt off regardless if anyone is keeping score or not. Because he is keeping score. Regardless if anyone else is or not.

Coach May

What you say is r true--what many kids and parents do not realize is that the college coaches look at the kids the same way whether it is a "competitive" tournament or showcase---they note the kids who don't hustle and the kids who show no heart and fire

Overall I don't think it's a problem yet but it possibly could be down the road. Some players are born naturally competitive but the vast majority have to be taught that. Parents are the first ones to do this and if you teach the game the right way as a young player then that competitiveness will be instilled.

What I see happening more and more often is parents not teaching kids to be competitive because they make excuses for failure. Eventually this mentality will work it's way up to the HS ranks where kids just think "hey I got to get work in and impress coaches" but that lack of competitiveness will be there.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:

What are everyone's thoughts?

IMO - I think the Coach is right about showcase ball to a large degree. Going to any event with the primary purpose of being "seen" is for "Posers" - not committed athletes. It may work for some - but for most - its a one way ticket to Palookaville.

If either of my sons told me they wanted to go to an event to do anything else other than play their *** off and win games - I would have enrolled them in modeling school instead.

And neither of those ugly dudes would have liked that. LOL

In 1983, I create the 1st International "showcase" Goodwill Series for the best HS players in America. the pro scouts selected the players. *300 + have played in the Major Leagues.

In 1987, I started the Area Code games [no cost to the players]. Sold to Student Sports/Nike in 2004,never looked back. Recently returned from our 17th journey to Australia. We had 95 traveling and 95 returning. That is success.

For 2 weeks the 6 pro scouts now who can play!

A FEW YEARS AGO, MY FINAL YEAR W AC GAMES, I TESTED THE SCOUTING DIRECTORS. I mentioned to a pro scout that I did not think that California was strong enough to have 2 AC teams. I took 2 hours for the rumor to travel Blair field and return to me.

My point is that life is too short for all of us,
please enjoy and "have fun". "Stay loose".

"baseball is fun"

Bob williams

So, what if a kid enters the game in third inning, strikes out his first time up, and 2nd AB in 6th calls for a bunt? Is he supposed do the right thing and lay one down, knowing he's not likely to get another at bat to show his stuff? Do coaches even play situational, or is it all bombs away?

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I am with Playfair on this one...

quote:

In a showcase there are no penalties for a walk from a pitcher and the pitcher does not care so much about control. In a showcase he just needs to "top out" on his FB velo high because hey 94 is 94 and wow is that "projectable".

Forget that he can only hit the strike zone at 88.

First time we went to a showcase we were all amazed at how wild two good local pitchers had suddenly gotten. Both threw pretty well only FB, and had numerous walks and gave up runs. We felt bad for them becasue we thought they had hurt their chances. Another local pitcher on the other hand had a great outing, showed great control and command, struck out three, grounded out the others.

Only found out later from the two wild ones that they both had been told that it was velocity that mattered most...and darned if they were not both selected to participate in more elite events based upon their performance....for the radar gun.

The kid who struck out 3? That's right ignored.

'ain't no mystery here...


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observer44: ITA. I've watched scouts very closely at showcase games and have seen attention totally gone when a kid doesn't hit a certain velocity. Doesn't matter if he induced a double play, struck out two guys, picked off a runner and got the save. If he doesn't have the velocity they are not interested. It sends a message loud and clear and you can't blame the players for reacting to it.

Now one thing I am wondering is if this has to do with timing. Might it be that during the summer and early signing periods, they are focussed on getting the hard throwers before someone else grabs them? And then during the Spring season, when the higher velocity guys are all signed anyway, they will then watch more closely for the pitchers that can really pitch?

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quote:

Originally posted by sandlotmom: It sends a message loud and clear and you can't blame the players for reacting to it.

Agreed.

quote:

Originally posted by sandlotmom:
Now one thing I am wondering is if this has to do with timing. Might it be that during the summer and early signing periods, they are focussed on getting the hard throwers before someone else grabs them? And then during the Spring season, when the higher velocity guys are all signed anyway, they will then watch more closely for the pitchers that can really pitch?

You know,....kudos sandlotmom... ...that is a pretty original observation...and looking back I can see a great deal of truth in that, and looking back I could quote case after case where that is true.

I'd add one more category...first, summer, pitchers who can throw hard AND can pitch...second, fall, add pitchers with velocity and upside...Third, in the spring, add guys who may lack velocity but can get players out. Now while this is not cut in stone it is an interesting template.

Hate to bring this thread to velocity but it is the perfect example of how/why players play to the scouts/recruiters, rather than compete to win in these instances. Again no mystery.


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I can watch a high school game and see players that are truly pulling for teamates, excited and jubilant when they win, ****ed off when they lose. Basically playing the game the way it is meant to be played. Moving runners over and doing anything it takes to get a run home.

I can watch a showcase game and see players that have not played together, with less energy, less ups and downs, and more individual focus than team focus. My son has had showcase coaches that said they don't steal or bunt, because they are taking an AB from another player if they make an out.

I have witnessed showcases and showcase teams sap the fun out of the game of baseball. Maybe this is what the coaches were referring to. It is a shame becasue the college games I have watched have great team camraderie and emotion, yet to get to that level you have to go through the showcase scene. I've watched some great showcase players verbal early and get cut after one season because they weren't what the coaches thought they had. And I have seen some great "gamers" that show their stuff in real games but don't showcase as well and they don't get the opportunity to play in college.

I agree too. Sidearm Son's first showcase, he bunted. It was a perfect instance to bunt, a perfect bunt and since he runs a 6.9 he made it on base fairly easily and he brought a run in. After the game he was told never to bunt during a showcase game. When he told me this he seemed angry, like someone was messing with his beloved game of baseball.

A sidearmer's job is (usually) to induce ground balls to force double plays, etc. Sidearm Son does this as well as strikes out most lefties. He's been told his velocity isn't high enough for D1 yet his pitching has helped teams win champsionships and district titles. We started to see his focus move to increasing his velocity during showcase season and all of a sudden he wasn't as effective.
He is pumped now to go back to playing high school ball because as he puts it "I get to play some "real" baseball!" No offense to his showcase coaches, they were great, but it's the nature of the beast.

Now he is hoping that there is a college out there (that still needs pitchers)that will take another look at his effectiveness on the mound and understand and appreciate the true role he plays on a team.

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While I understnd bemoaning the loss of players playing to win, Let's turn this around...

There are a great many coaches who understand physical talent, and can identify players who play to win...coaches know how to recruit them...coaches who also know the the nuts and bolts of game management decisions...

...but a precious few who really understand how to get the most out of those players....and even rarer to know how to build a team and to "empower a team"...to get those players to play together as a unit, playing for the team and team wins and each other....not just thinking individual statistics and chances for the draft.

Team and winning are not an art lost just on players alone, it is lost on coaches and programs as well.

44
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I never had to tell my kid "Hey this is a showase tourney so make sure you play hard. Make sure you give it everything you have. Make sure you hustle and play to win."

If I thought for one minute my kid was not doing this I would put him in the car and take him home. Time to do something else. If I was coaching a player that I thought for one minute was not giving everything he had , not hustling , not playing hard then I would tell him the same thing.

Of course there are kids who play showcase baseball and dont give it everything they have. Of course there are kids out there who's main focus is an attempt to try and impress a coach or coaches. And I have seen the same thing in hs games. Not as often but it is there.

What can you control? Who are you responsible for? Real gamers come to play. They come to compete. They play hard not because a coach is watching or a scout is watching or because a championship is on the line. They play hard because thats the only way they know. They compete because thats what they do. If you have to tell a kid to hustle then there is a serious problem already.

Showcase baseball is just a venue. Its a way for more coaches to see more players in one location. It should have nothing to do with the way you approach the game or the way you play the game. If it does then thats on the player , period. If a coach is a clown that is no reason for the player to act like a clown. If the coach is not taking it serious that is no excuse for the player to act the same way. Every opportunity to compete is precious. It should never be waisted or taken for granted.

If everyone else is going through the motions then there is nothing you can do about the way they are playing the game. But you can control the way you approach the game and the way you play the game. When my team is playing a week day game in front of no coaches , no fans and we are not even keeping score I should see the same effort , desire to compete as I would if we were playing in front of 50 college coaches for a championship. Why? Because your a competitor and its the only way you know how to play the game.

I remember watching tape with a friend of mine several years ago he was a recruiter for a major college football program. He was looking at some tape of a kid they were told they needed to recruit. This players team was winning by 40 pts in the 3rd qtr. A Defensive lineman for the team getting whacked never quit on a play and ran down field and ended up making a tackle 40 yds from the line of scrimmage. He said "Did you see that kid?" "Now thats what I am looking for. I should never be able to tell who is winning , how much they are losing or winning by , or how important the game or play is by the way a kid plays." "He ended up passing on the kid he was supposed to be watching and ended up offering the kid he noticed on the tape.

There is NO excuse or reason to not bring it. You either want it or you dont. You either have it in you or you dont. Who is watching or who is not watching , the score , the inning , the location , the importance of the game , none of this means squat. Go hard or go home. You either are a gamer or your not. Maybe showcase baseball reveals who is in it for the wrong reasons and who is in it for the right reasons?

If you need other incentives to get you excited to play , if you need other incentives to get you to play hard and compete , you need to find something else to do. I can tolerate physical errors. Heck I can teach after a mental error. But I will never tolerate lack of effort or lack of desire. And I will never offer up an excuse for it or accept an excuse for it. There are too many guys out there that would do anything for the same opportunity.

So I will not accept Showcase baseball as an excuse for not being a gamer or not bringing it everytime out. The same kids dogging it at a showcase are the same kids that will dog it when they are getting it handed to them in a hs game. The kid that goes all out all the time because he only knows one way to play never considers the venue , the score or who is in the stands. He is simply doing what he loves to do.

I dont expect anything less from one of my players in the summer or fall than I do in the spring. You will play hard , you will compete , or you will find somewhere else to play. And gamers wouldnt have it any other way. You can not control how talented you are once the game starts. You can not control how talented your opponent is. But you can control 100% of you effort and desire to compete. If your unwilling to do that , if your incapable of doing that , you are simply not a player.

There are two different types of showcases. Here's my penny's worth.

A showcase "event", usually two days with workouts on first day and non competitive games on second day. At these events their is no bunting, walking and pitch limits. These events can create some lackluster play and focus. Kids can be uninterested until their at bat or time to pitch. You may see some lackluster play.
Show your strengths at the right time is basically all that is needed and what the scouts or raters are looking for.

Showcase "tournaments" are usually competitive with everyone wanting to win while showcasing kids in the course of a regulation game. Everyone is focused and scouts will be looking for intangibles more than at "events". Players should be into the game and on their toes.

quote:

Showcase baseball is just a venue... It should have nothing to do with the way you approach the game or the way you play the game.

Showcase. Baseball. hmmm...

I look at it much the same way as Coach May.

We have seen thousands of young players in both showcase and game competition. FWIW... Here are a few things that have stood out to me over the years.

There are some who can really play the game, but don’t necessarily stand out in a showcase environment. It takes longer to figure this type of player out. They don’t display amazing tools or size, but they simply know how to play the game. Their instincts and feel for the game can’t always be recognized in a hurry. There are others who do stand out with their tools, but lack what the “real” players bring to the table. Of course, those who are the most impressive are the ones who have both.

We have noticed that we tend to see a pitchers best velocity when he is competing to win a game. Often we see the pitchers best velocity in a tournament game. Those who are trying to light up the radar gun sometimes cheat themselves by over throwing. This not only affects control, it can also have a negative affect on velocity.

The no walk rule: People really have to give scouts and recruiters more credit. Walks are a statistic! We don’t need statistics in order to see if a pitcher is wild or has good control. You would have to be asleep not to notice a pitcher throwing 8 straight balls that are not near the strike zone. It might not show up on a scoresheet, but I can guarantee our notes have that covered. Velocity in the strike zone is always noted. The reason for the no walk/5 hitter rule at showcase events is simple. We want to see hitters hit rather than walk on 4 pitches. We want to protect pitchers from having an inning that lasts forever. We definitely don’t want to go out there and pull a pitcher at an individual showcase. The rule is not perfect, but it works for the most part.

The competition might be different between showcase and games, but it is still competition at both. The big difference is probably winning or losing a game, but when a pitcher faces a hitter or vice versa, it is serious competition. When a runner is stealing, the catcher sees it as serious competition. True there might not be “team” competition, but the individual competition can be intense. Nothing beats playing with your friends and winning games, that's for sure.

In baseball individual competition is extremely important. Be it a tryout, showcase, trying to make the starting lineup, etc. it can not be avoided. It doesn’t stop for those who go on to college or professional baseball. When a player is drafted and assigned a team, he has teammates, but he only moves up the ladder based on his individual performance. If a player is in low A ball, does he want to be promoted or stay with his current team and win more games? Baseball is very much an individual game played in a team concept. It has always been that way. And if someone wants to help their team in the best possible way, they should become the very best individual player they can be. Then the best individuals play as a team, doing the things that win games.

Over the years we have seem many outstanding talents who lack the necessary ingredients to reach their potential. These involve make up issues, intelligence problems, poor work ethic, lack of perseverance, lack of effort, satisfaction, and other things. These things stick out like a sore thumb at times. There have been players drafted early who we felt were sure to fail. There have been players who weren’t so highly regarded make it to the Big Leagues. The player who shows up and doesn’t compete or thinks he doesn’t have anything to prove is destined to learn things the hard way.

Everyone who recruits or scouts understands the importance of being a winner. Sometimes the players I actually like the most are far from the best prospect. However, if I have to invest in a player I will take the most talented prospect that has the other things going for him. At the same time I will be pulling for the kid I like the most.

One thing that everyone should know about the young pitcher who doesn’t have a great arm (throw with good velocity) but he is very successful at getting outs in high school. The kid who gets the double play balls and pitches to contact. He might very well be very successful in college or even pro ball. However, the secret to scouting or recruiting is figuring out if that same pitcher will get those outs against college or professional hitters. Or at the higher level will those double plays turn into extra base hits? Will those ground balls turn into line drives? Will the pop ups turn into tape measure homeruns? After all, we should all realize that the hitters are always better at the next level. Is velocity the most important thing? Not for those who have it! Is velocity important? Of course, it should be very obvious to everyone who pays attention to what goes on. Still its always possible that someone can actually be very successful without good velocity. Problem is there are only a few with exceptional velocity. There are quite a few with what is called average velocity and there are millions with below average velocity. If you were a scout or college recruiter which group would you concentrate on to find the best prospects? This makes it even more important for the lower velocity guys to get in front of the right people as often as possible. It might take several good performances to open some eyes. The high velocity guys also need to be seen a lot, only thing is, they will be seen a lot. The best for scouts/recruiters is when the pitcher gets to throw to the best possible hitters (competition).

Sorry about the length of this post. These are my thoughts about some of these things. I think all the posts on this topic are good ones. Please don’t ever take it for granted that I am correct! I have been proven wrong a record breaking number of times.

quote:

If a player is in low A ball, does he want to be promoted or stay with his current team and win more games?

Well, given that choice, I know at least one player at the low A level who would choose the promotion

Great stuff PGStaff and Coach May - truly outstanding and classic posts for the hsbbweb!

This summer my son played with a showcase team for the first time as a rising senior. The cometition
was the best that he has played against, I would guess 75% of the teams he played against have players going to D1 schools. In some of the showcases he played in they were not playing to advance in the showcase so there was a lack of
competitiveness in these games , even as a parent sitting in the stands you could feel a difference.
Pitchers only wanting to throw fastballs because of all the radar guns in the stands, one catcher told my son all he cared about was his pop time so the 18 balls that hit the backstop did not seem to matter. So even though the cometition was top notch
at times it did lack competitiveness.

DoverDAD,

In my experience... The very best teams, with the very best prospects do not lack competitiveness. They want to win! I suppose there is some of the other going on as well, but personally I would have absolutely no interest in a player that lacked competitiveness.

In much of what we see a pitcher just wanting to throw fastballs will end up being very embarrassed. How many fastballs does a pitcher need to throw to the guns? Sounds like some of those kids, like the catcher, just don't get it. I feel sorry for your son.

I need to add, I think the word we're looking for might be intensity. I have noticed that sometimes the tournaments lack the intensity of a high school or college game. Then at other times things turn extra wild with intensity.

quote:

Third, in the spring, add guys who may lack velocity but can get players out.

...and are projectable.

Lefty from our area who was one of my favorite pitchers to watch from way back in the 10u days has barely broken 80 but signed with a fairly strong D1 a while back. He is fairly tall and looks quite projectable to me. They were also smart enough to keep him back a year given a late summer birthday.

PGStaff
No need to feel sorry for my son , who by the way is a catcher that had a hard time getting his pitchers to throw somthing outside of a fastball
because he does get it and does call a graet game . It was the only team we could afford to get him on. As a catcher he tries to get his pitcher to drink the Kool aid but sometimes you just can't and
yes they do quite often get embarrassed, also try throwing out runners with balls going over the fence

18 balls to the backstop, not sure his pop time mattered at that point.

Seen on the internet the catcher signed with a school in the Big South so I guess it was good enough.

quote:

In baseball individual competition is extremely important. Be it a tryout, showcase, trying to make the starting lineup, etc. it can not be avoided. It doesn’t stop for those who go on to college or professional baseball. When a player is drafted and assigned a team, he has teammates, but he only moves up the ladder based on his individual performance. If a player is in low A ball, does he want to be promoted or stay with his current team and win more games? Baseball is very much an individual game played in a team concept. It has always been that way. And if someone wants to help their team in the best possible way, they should become the very best individual player they can be. Then the best individuals play as a team, doing the things that win games.

PG, maybe I am misunderstanding and hopefully so. I just have a hard time with the concept/analogy to Milb in terms of competition/individual skills.
As you know, Milb players not only know they are playing to be promoted, they also know they are playing so they don't get a release at the end of the game. The ones who are there with a purpose have seen teammates released. They are motivated to make sure it isn't them.
From pre-game to when the night is done, they are called upon every day to demonstrate their skills and to show those skills are getting better. They are constantly being reviewed for their performance against the organizations situational requirements. They are constantly under review for the adjustments they are making, did they get a bunt down, advance the runner, have a quality AB that met the number of pitches the team wants per AB and many other items. They know every AB is graded and submitted before the manager gets to even go to sleep that night. Just the amount of scrutiny that applies to every AB, every pitch, every inning, to me at least, does not make the correlation of playing as an individual in Milb very meaningful in terms of playing as an individual in a showcase. On top of that, Milb do want to win.
While I could probably go on and on about what I feel would be the competitive differences, the most important to my mind would be the showcase player isn't motivated by the awareness that this game, this inning, this AB might be his very last one.