OBC-
I think that certain parts of the country will have a different perspective than I do. My advice is merely from a west coast take. I agree with you, there are several ways to gain exposure, and the path you choose is most likely based on the area that you live. My family visited my sister a couple summers ago in South Dakota. We loved the area, and enjoyed the visit. My wife and I actually looked at a few houses online and contemplated a possible move....until we realized that the high schools in their area did not have baseball teams. They played legion baseball and the season typically didn't begin until late April or early May. Absolutely nothing against Legion Baseball, but we wanted our son to compete and enjoy playing baseball in high school, so we didn't make the move.
We are accustomed to warm weather and mild winter's compared to the majority of the country. Ultimately the weather in our state is a big factor on how our kids receive exposure throughout the year...many more tournament/showcase opportunities.
On our small 2A high school in TX there have been four players that played select ball and went to various showcases in the last 5 years. Two are playing college ball, another just signed to start playing next fall and I have no doubt the other will play somewhere. The guys who did none of these things no matter what level of talent they had are now doing other things.
I agree with bsbl247. The issues are quite different in different areas.
In our case, our son will be an international student. We are a middle class household and I’m on my second bout of job-seeking at the moment. In Ontario, High School baseball is a very short season of a few weeks and it is not nearly as competitive as summer ball. We live in a town of 15,000 about an hour from Toronto. My son, who has always trained and played a long way from home, will probably start for his High School team this year and he’s a freshman. High School baseball is not even remotely a means of being scouted here.
Most of the eighty or so City Rep teams (summer ball) in the province will commence training in late January; begin their season in May; and complete their season on Labour Day weekend. In the fall of the sophomore year, the stronger players whose parents have an ability to afford it, leave for eight stronger elite travel organizations and another eight or so slightly stronger elite-lite organizations.
This creates such a talent drain on the City Rep leagues that it is risky to continue at this level of play if you plan to move to the next level. As little as five years ago, this might not have been the case.
At the 16U year, if able, we have to choose the $6K to $10K year-round programs. Further, with the top programs, there is a great deal of loyalty, so it is hard to get in as time goes forward from the sophomore year. This is a different path as well in that, we don’t see our kids playing a lot of meaningful games in their High School years. We drive them an hour into Toronto to put them on a highway coach and they take off to play their more meaningful games in South Carolina, Florida, etc.
For their sophomore and junior years, the fall ball is limited. March Breaks are spent in Florida. They play a short season against one another here and then they play throughout the US. In the senior year, just about every weekend is spent in the fall playing against US D1’s with our program.
I don’t begrudge the elite programs. Our kids are provided with seminars, SAT help, and great coaching. The kids are kept safe when they travel. They are pushed to perform at school. Right now, our guys are in the training room two or three days a week. My son has had hamstrings fail at home afterwards and his stomach muscles are sore days after throwing the medicine ball from the crunch position. I’ve told him it will pass and he wouldn’t change things for the world.
My son was lucky enough to make one of the best elite programs available as a freshman. I see $35K of out-of-pocket cost in front of us. We have to really work to make sure that payment is in every month. I see half-scholarships and the possibility that he will have to pay out-of-state fees which can be triple in-state. The fact is our choice may simply have to be made between the few schools who waive those fees. It may be that he will have to choose to go to a JUCO to prove out their skills despite having a GPA up around 4.0 to go to a southern school. After all of this, about 80% of the guys are not in the same school where they obtained their scholarship a year later.
These are daunting facts. We’re obviously not in this for the money – I don’t think we could possibly break even. This is about the process and the opportunity to participate in the game while at the same time getting a good education. I’m echoing the words of someone above – your kid has got to be in it for the experience.
In our case, our son will be an international student. We are a middle class household and I’m on my second bout of job-seeking at the moment. In Ontario, High School baseball is a very short season of a few weeks and it is not nearly as competitive as summer ball. We live in a town of 15,000 about an hour from Toronto. My son, who has always trained and played a long way from home, will probably start for his High School team this year and he’s a freshman. High School baseball is not even remotely a means of being scouted here.
Most of the eighty or so City Rep teams (summer ball) in the province will commence training in late January; begin their season in May; and complete their season on Labour Day weekend. In the fall of the sophomore year, the stronger players whose parents have an ability to afford it, leave for eight stronger elite travel organizations and another eight or so slightly stronger elite-lite organizations.
This creates such a talent drain on the City Rep leagues that it is risky to continue at this level of play if you plan to move to the next level. As little as five years ago, this might not have been the case.
At the 16U year, if able, we have to choose the $6K to $10K year-round programs. Further, with the top programs, there is a great deal of loyalty, so it is hard to get in as time goes forward from the sophomore year. This is a different path as well in that, we don’t see our kids playing a lot of meaningful games in their High School years. We drive them an hour into Toronto to put them on a highway coach and they take off to play their more meaningful games in South Carolina, Florida, etc.
For their sophomore and junior years, the fall ball is limited. March Breaks are spent in Florida. They play a short season against one another here and then they play throughout the US. In the senior year, just about every weekend is spent in the fall playing against US D1’s with our program.
I don’t begrudge the elite programs. Our kids are provided with seminars, SAT help, and great coaching. The kids are kept safe when they travel. They are pushed to perform at school. Right now, our guys are in the training room two or three days a week. My son has had hamstrings fail at home afterwards and his stomach muscles are sore days after throwing the medicine ball from the crunch position. I’ve told him it will pass and he wouldn’t change things for the world.
My son was lucky enough to make one of the best elite programs available as a freshman. I see $35K of out-of-pocket cost in front of us. We have to really work to make sure that payment is in every month. I see half-scholarships and the possibility that he will have to pay out-of-state fees which can be triple in-state. The fact is our choice may simply have to be made between the few schools who waive those fees. It may be that he will have to choose to go to a JUCO to prove out their skills despite having a GPA up around 4.0 to go to a southern school. After all of this, about 80% of the guys are not in the same school where they obtained their scholarship a year later.
These are daunting facts. We’re obviously not in this for the money – I don’t think we could possibly break even. This is about the process and the opportunity to participate in the game while at the same time getting a good education. I’m echoing the words of someone above – your kid has got to be in it for the experience.
That's a pretty good assessment !
Unfortunately some teams here are not worth $6000 in terms of placement in US colleges. 6 years ago it was a much better oportunity for a lot less money. The most we paid was $2200 and that was a full year and included tournaments in Long Island and Charleston SC. Every other year was less than $1400. We spent less than $8000 total over 6 years.
We did no showcases because I couldn't take the time or wouldn't spend the money. My son was enjoying what he was doing and had no interest in showcasing as opposed to what he was doing . His Elite teams were a lot of fun and provided opportunities to play great competition like the Brantford Red Soxs senior Inter county team, Long Island tigers and the Charleston Diamond Devils etc. I videoed many of the games and that was all we needed.
Unfortunately some teams here are not worth $6000 in terms of placement in US colleges. 6 years ago it was a much better oportunity for a lot less money. The most we paid was $2200 and that was a full year and included tournaments in Long Island and Charleston SC. Every other year was less than $1400. We spent less than $8000 total over 6 years.
We did no showcases because I couldn't take the time or wouldn't spend the money. My son was enjoying what he was doing and had no interest in showcasing as opposed to what he was doing . His Elite teams were a lot of fun and provided opportunities to play great competition like the Brantford Red Soxs senior Inter county team, Long Island tigers and the Charleston Diamond Devils etc. I videoed many of the games and that was all we needed.
Lots good posts. I only meant to illustrate that there are a lot of different ways to get exposure (ours was certainly one of the more unique situations). As was said on previous pages, it is very easy to get into the multiple thousands of dollars; that was something my wife and I would have to look at closely even in better economic times.
This part, I think, is as much a question of philosophy as anything. We were fine with our sons playing baseball (and within reason, did what we could to support it), but we made it a point that they were familiar with the "opportunity cost" of what they decided.
This part, I think, is as much a question of philosophy as anything. We were fine with our sons playing baseball (and within reason, did what we could to support it), but we made it a point that they were familiar with the "opportunity cost" of what they decided.
quote:We are accustomed to warm weather and mild winter's compared to the majority of the country. Ultimately the weather in our state is a big factor on how our kids receive exposure throughout the year...many more tournament/showcase opportunities.
I think bsbl247 is right on about this -- I am sure various parts of the country have particular concerns. California's economy is well into the tank, compared to most other states, but it is still blessed with great weather for year-round play. I think the warm weather states have exploded with "travel ball" for youngsters simply because it is possible. In reality, private teams (which grow out of LL and Pony allstar teams many times) can play year round nearly every weekend without driving more than 45 minutes in So.Cal. This leads to conditions like the post from SC mentioned where players without travel ball experience rarely make varsity in HS.
For HS players showcase, camp, travel and scout ball opportunities are plentiful (though many HS coaches don't have the time or connections to help their players pick and choose wisely) and seems like lots of baseball has-beens set up shop here and try to see if they can make a living off lessons, travel ball programs, showcases, etc. Navigating the waters while keeping an eye on your wallet is rather mind-boggling.
GREAT advice in the postings for this thread. We are pulling together a little pot of money and I have put my son in charge of researching the possibilities. (When he has time between baseball and keeping those grades up!