Bighit 15, I feel that an agent should negotiate a set fee as a lawyer might for negotiating for you and then recieve 3-4% of the bonus money that he can get over last years average.He would recieve no % on round average money that is available in Baseball America.
Voodoo, Since you are quoting Mr. John Henry, it is interesting that Mr Henry says that dealmaking takes as much talent as playing baseball in the major leagues. Since he has never played in the major leagues,and is afraid to make a deal, how would he know what kind of talent it takes to do either one?
That is a weak comeback for the question I asked you.
fmarq7901
Perhaps I missed it in your "discourse" but for whom do you work for, are you independent,and what is your territory? Is it just PR?
voodoo chile---odd monicker for an adult is it not? Certainly has me thinking about your credentials
TRhit
Perhaps I missed it in your "discourse" but for whom do you work for, are you independent,and what is your territory? Is it just PR?
voodoo chile---odd monicker for an adult is it not? Certainly has me thinking about your credentials
TRhit
Tom, Aren't you a Jimi Hendrix fan? 
"I love the HSBBW"
"I love the HSBBW"
Very much so BIG, but I still have to wonder why a grown man uses that ID--is he a Hendrix Fan?
TRhit
TRhit
TRHit,
I'm mostly involved in the Caribean, specifically Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, and Venezuela.
As far as commissions go, this is what I do. I have an obligation to communicate every single offer to my client, kind of like a settlement offer in litigation. (At least thats my view).
If my client wishes to sign for the club's initial offer, I didn't do any work, so I charge nothing. No percentage at all.
However, as I'm sure voodoo will attest, scouts usually don't automatically give you a "slot" offer. As with all negotiations, they come with a lower offer than is usually deserved. That is where I come in.
Just this past season I had an upper draft pick (between rounds 6-8) who was offered far below what his slot had received in past years. Being prepared beforehand, I negotiated a $60,000 increase from the original amount. That is just the most recent example of an agent's use.
At this point, and this point only, in which the player's final signing bonus is negotiated by me, is when I charge a percentage.
I'd also like to add that many parents either don't know, or do not have access to the signing bonus amounts of years past. Hence, to retain an agent is a virtual necessity, in lieu of having a scout and organization, who want to save every penny, try and take advantage.
I'd like to stress that an agent must pursue his clients best interest. Consequently, a negotiation generally should not drag on for more than a couple of days because, unless you are a first rounder, the team NEEDS to see the kid play in rookie/short season ball. As such, I try to arrive totally prepared with a concise study the club's minor league system, and other possible points. This way, I can prepare myself for what arguments might come my way.
As I said in a previous post, the term "slot money" is not a generally accepted trend beyond the MLB clubs and Commissioners office. It is an issue that will continue to surface because of its
salary cap-like structure.
Lastly, pops is right in one sense. An agent for draft negotiations might not be for everyone. Although I strongly recommend it, families and kids need to go with their instincts. It may be true that a parent with the requisite knowledge can negotiate a comparable bonus to that an agent would obtain. However, their are many other issues which must be dealt with for which retaining an agent may be proper, such as draft placing (as voodoo mentioned), which minor league the player is sent to, his immediate equipment needs (although voodoo might disagree), financial planning, tax planning.
In essence, an agent might just be more convenient than negotiating a bonus yourself, and later having to go through all the hassle of the tasks that follow. Plus, I for example, provide my players with personal training, nutritional advice, marketing, media exposure, etc. These services alone are worth retaining an agent, and I view it as a bit unfair to exclude an agent from the only instance (besides endorsements, and major league earnings) he can earn some much-needed income.
Just my view.
FM
I'm mostly involved in the Caribean, specifically Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, and Venezuela.
As far as commissions go, this is what I do. I have an obligation to communicate every single offer to my client, kind of like a settlement offer in litigation. (At least thats my view).
If my client wishes to sign for the club's initial offer, I didn't do any work, so I charge nothing. No percentage at all.
However, as I'm sure voodoo will attest, scouts usually don't automatically give you a "slot" offer. As with all negotiations, they come with a lower offer than is usually deserved. That is where I come in.
Just this past season I had an upper draft pick (between rounds 6-8) who was offered far below what his slot had received in past years. Being prepared beforehand, I negotiated a $60,000 increase from the original amount. That is just the most recent example of an agent's use.
At this point, and this point only, in which the player's final signing bonus is negotiated by me, is when I charge a percentage.
I'd also like to add that many parents either don't know, or do not have access to the signing bonus amounts of years past. Hence, to retain an agent is a virtual necessity, in lieu of having a scout and organization, who want to save every penny, try and take advantage.
I'd like to stress that an agent must pursue his clients best interest. Consequently, a negotiation generally should not drag on for more than a couple of days because, unless you are a first rounder, the team NEEDS to see the kid play in rookie/short season ball. As such, I try to arrive totally prepared with a concise study the club's minor league system, and other possible points. This way, I can prepare myself for what arguments might come my way.
As I said in a previous post, the term "slot money" is not a generally accepted trend beyond the MLB clubs and Commissioners office. It is an issue that will continue to surface because of its
salary cap-like structure.
Lastly, pops is right in one sense. An agent for draft negotiations might not be for everyone. Although I strongly recommend it, families and kids need to go with their instincts. It may be true that a parent with the requisite knowledge can negotiate a comparable bonus to that an agent would obtain. However, their are many other issues which must be dealt with for which retaining an agent may be proper, such as draft placing (as voodoo mentioned), which minor league the player is sent to, his immediate equipment needs (although voodoo might disagree), financial planning, tax planning.
In essence, an agent might just be more convenient than negotiating a bonus yourself, and later having to go through all the hassle of the tasks that follow. Plus, I for example, provide my players with personal training, nutritional advice, marketing, media exposure, etc. These services alone are worth retaining an agent, and I view it as a bit unfair to exclude an agent from the only instance (besides endorsements, and major league earnings) he can earn some much-needed income.
Just my view.
FM
fmarq,
Interesting posts and very enjoyable.
Having been on the other side ("owners side") - I would agree with you that most players should have an agent represent them.
On a lighter note and as a fan of the game - I can tell you that after coming back from the ballpark with my family and dropping $500 to watch a game - the last thing on my mind is how fairly the agents are being treated. LOL (only kidding with you).
Interesting posts and very enjoyable.
Having been on the other side ("owners side") - I would agree with you that most players should have an agent represent them.
On a lighter note and as a fan of the game - I can tell you that after coming back from the ballpark with my family and dropping $500 to watch a game - the last thing on my mind is how fairly the agents are being treated. LOL (only kidding with you).
I have a question for Pops, Fmarq, and VooDoo. You may have addressed it in passing, I am curious as to your responses. If a hs player that you advise, only gets slot money, do you feel that they should pay you 5% and why?(I am not insinuating anything one way or the other, I just am interested in your views)
Thanks for the responses.
Fmarq,
Did you charge on the whole bonus, or just the 60k? Just curious. Thanks for your time.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the agents commission goes, if a player is a 3rd round pick, all they would have to do is check Baseball America to see what last years 3rd rounders recieved. If it was $430,000, then why should an agent get his 4% of that? Why give a guy $17,200 for something that you can get yourself?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the guy before you goes for $420,000 and the guy after for$410,000 and you get $430,000, Did the agent do his job? Still would like this answered.
TR, I know your feelings on profiles and agree. However, I don't see how the very act of picking a moniker discredits someone unless it somehow is rude, crass, or obscene. JMO After all my son no longer hits,nor is he #15. LOL
"I love the HSBBW"
Thanks for the responses.
Fmarq,
quote:
At this point, and this point only, in which the player's final signing bonus is negotiated by me, is when I charge a percentage.
Did you charge on the whole bonus, or just the 60k? Just curious. Thanks for your time.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the agents commission goes, if a player is a 3rd round pick, all they would have to do is check Baseball America to see what last years 3rd rounders recieved. If it was $430,000, then why should an agent get his 4% of that? Why give a guy $17,200 for something that you can get yourself?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the guy before you goes for $420,000 and the guy after for$410,000 and you get $430,000, Did the agent do his job? Still would like this answered.
TR, I know your feelings on profiles and agree. However, I don't see how the very act of picking a moniker discredits someone unless it somehow is rude, crass, or obscene. JMO After all my son no longer hits,nor is he #15. LOL
"I love the HSBBW"
Pops,
As I am sure you know - John Henry is in fact a great dealmaker and businessman - having built a successful investment firm among other things. His company manages somewhere in the vicinity of $3 billion for wealthy clients.
I think Mr. Henry was either being very modest, or just "laying low in the bushes" when he gave that interview.
Regards
As I am sure you know - John Henry is in fact a great dealmaker and businessman - having built a successful investment firm among other things. His company manages somewhere in the vicinity of $3 billion for wealthy clients.
I think Mr. Henry was either being very modest, or just "laying low in the bushes" when he gave that interview.
Regards
fmarq7901, You have a little different package than most agents. You have clients that are "true free agents" that don't have to go through the draft. Only in Puerto Rico do you have to represent drafted players who may be slotted. In the other areas, you get an opportunity to possibly bid the player up, as he is a free agent. You then get the chance to really earn your commission IMO.
BIGHIT
Not discrediting --just find it hard in my mind to take serious what a adult with that ID says.
JMO
TRhit
Not discrediting --just find it hard in my mind to take serious what a adult with that ID says.
JMO
TRhit
"You may end up paying the kids bonus money to a divorce lawyer."
Pops,
#1 I didn't post here to solicit biz so if you like my opinions(that's all they are)fine if they offend you, this is still America & you have the right to your opinion... pending Patriot Act II
2)My method of operation has never have caused any divorces. If your spouse would object to your kid being represented by an Agent that will fight for him as vigorously as a Lioness defends her cubs, then I would tell you to find yourself another boy because all out is the only way I know.
Pops,
#1 I didn't post here to solicit biz so if you like my opinions(that's all they are)fine if they offend you, this is still America & you have the right to your opinion... pending Patriot Act II
2)My method of operation has never have caused any divorces. If your spouse would object to your kid being represented by an Agent that will fight for him as vigorously as a Lioness defends her cubs, then I would tell you to find yourself another boy because all out is the only way I know.
bbscout,
While I do work in Venezuela and The Dominican, my posts on this board deal strictly with the players who have to go through the draft process.
The Venezuelans and Dominicans (especially) are a whole different ballgame, and sometimes very difficult to deal with.
FM
While I do work in Venezuela and The Dominican, my posts on this board deal strictly with the players who have to go through the draft process.
The Venezuelans and Dominicans (especially) are a whole different ballgame, and sometimes very difficult to deal with.
FM
"If a hs player that you advise, only gets slot money, do you feel that they should pay you 5% and why?
Many people have a problem from a conceptual point of view re
aying an agent for something you can do yourself. Well, the truth is you CAN'T. Not anywhere near as well as an able experienced professional can.
BigHit, if your Son hit someone in his car & was being sued for a million dollars would you represent him in court? Probably not because even though people have watched Judge Judy/Divorce Court/ People's Court etc. they still don't know how to try a case.
Even though you & the other Dads have been to a million games & followed Baseball as fans all your lives, that still hasn't prepared you to represent your Son, particularly when you add in the fact that you can in now way expect to be objective.
I believe I said in a previous post that an Agents' performance should be evaluated not only by how much he gets a player but how he gets it. If you get a kid a record setting bonus but the whole organization(and their fans) he signed with hates him because of the way his Agent handled his negotiations, how good a job did he really do for the kid? Conversely, if my kid were drafted & even left a little bit of $$ on the table but entered Pro ball with a great feeling because of the way the negotiations went, I would think his Agent did a great job.
TR, I know your feelings on profiles and agree. However, I don't see how the very act of picking a moniker discredits someone unless it somehow is rude, crass, or obscene. JMO After all my son no longer hits,nor is he #15. LOL
"Well I'm standing next to a mountain, chop it down with edge of my hand."
JAMES MARSHALL HENDIX
Many people have a problem from a conceptual point of view re
aying an agent for something you can do yourself. Well, the truth is you CAN'T. Not anywhere near as well as an able experienced professional can. BigHit, if your Son hit someone in his car & was being sued for a million dollars would you represent him in court? Probably not because even though people have watched Judge Judy/Divorce Court/ People's Court etc. they still don't know how to try a case.
Even though you & the other Dads have been to a million games & followed Baseball as fans all your lives, that still hasn't prepared you to represent your Son, particularly when you add in the fact that you can in now way expect to be objective.
I believe I said in a previous post that an Agents' performance should be evaluated not only by how much he gets a player but how he gets it. If you get a kid a record setting bonus but the whole organization(and their fans) he signed with hates him because of the way his Agent handled his negotiations, how good a job did he really do for the kid? Conversely, if my kid were drafted & even left a little bit of $$ on the table but entered Pro ball with a great feeling because of the way the negotiations went, I would think his Agent did a great job.
TR, I know your feelings on profiles and agree. However, I don't see how the very act of picking a moniker discredits someone unless it somehow is rude, crass, or obscene. JMO After all my son no longer hits,nor is he #15. LOL
"Well I'm standing next to a mountain, chop it down with edge of my hand."
JAMES MARSHALL HENDIX
quote:
I believe I said in a previous post that an Agents' performance should be evaluated not only by how much he gets a player but how he gets it. If you get a kid a record setting bonus but the whole organization(and their fans) he signed with hates him because of the way his Agent handled his negotiations, how good a job did he really do for the kid? Conversely, if my kid were drafted & even left a little bit of $$ on the table but entered Pro ball with a great feeling because of the way the negotiations went, I would think his Agent did a great job.
Sometimes we only talk dollars and cents. How much value do you put on piece of mind or intangibles.
"I love the HSBBW"
"One quote tht I remember from A-Rod. He was asked what to look for in an agent? He said, "I look at their arbitration record".
ARod needs to check his vision. #1 Boras has lost 9 out of his last 10 arbitrations.#2 you do a better job for your client by making a deal rather than going to arbitration because even if you win it isn't a pleasant process AND I prefer the fans of my clients read about Runs, RBI's HR's etc. not $$$ so the less of their biz gets in the papers, the better a job I've done.
"If I don't see you no more in this world, I'll see you in the next one. Don't be late."
ARod needs to check his vision. #1 Boras has lost 9 out of his last 10 arbitrations.#2 you do a better job for your client by making a deal rather than going to arbitration because even if you win it isn't a pleasant process AND I prefer the fans of my clients read about Runs, RBI's HR's etc. not $$$ so the less of their biz gets in the papers, the better a job I've done.
"If I don't see you no more in this world, I'll see you in the next one. Don't be late."
"However, your allegations were directly aimed at discrediting me with the board members."
I wasn't trying to discredit you. I was disagreeing with your opinions. I post here because I enjoy the exchange of ideas not to buld myself up or tear anyone else down.
"In addition, my example of a suit was just that, an example of how varying legal venues may interact."
So you won't saddle players "with the economic burden of purchasing their own gloves, bats, batting gloves, under armour, etc.?" but you'll sue them? For what to secure a commission on a Minor League contract? The filing fees & copying cost will exceed 5% of a $2,000/month contract.
"you are aware that the exclusivity provision is directly challengeable in court."
Please challenge this in court. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! I would love to watch you up against the MLBPA. Then Monty Python could make a movie about it.
"Consequently, a minor leaguer, _who are not encompassed withing the MLBPA regulations_, like most kids whose parents frequent this board, is not bound by the exclusivity section."
So you specialize in negotiation Minor League contracts? You must be making some HUGE money bro.
"I fail to see how providing minor league kids with their equipment is improper. So, once you sign a client, obtaining a deal with a manufacturer isn't obtaining his equipment?"
Getting a deal with an equipment company is radically different from buying their equipment for them.
"What about the players who aren't offered contracts by manufacturers?"
Not one client of mine doesn't either have a contract for their equipment which pays them to use a certain brand or a company willing to supply it without a compensation.
"and I refuse to let an A-ball kid who might not even earn $1,000 per month pay for his stuff."
Again, you won't let "an A-ball kid who might not even earn $1,000 per month" pay for his own gear but you'll sue him to secure a commission on a contract that pays him a whole $150/month more than a dead ape could get him?
I wasn't trying to discredit you. I was disagreeing with your opinions. I post here because I enjoy the exchange of ideas not to buld myself up or tear anyone else down.
"In addition, my example of a suit was just that, an example of how varying legal venues may interact."
So you won't saddle players "with the economic burden of purchasing their own gloves, bats, batting gloves, under armour, etc.?" but you'll sue them? For what to secure a commission on a Minor League contract? The filing fees & copying cost will exceed 5% of a $2,000/month contract.
"you are aware that the exclusivity provision is directly challengeable in court."
Please challenge this in court. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! I would love to watch you up against the MLBPA. Then Monty Python could make a movie about it.
"Consequently, a minor leaguer, _who are not encompassed withing the MLBPA regulations_, like most kids whose parents frequent this board, is not bound by the exclusivity section."
So you specialize in negotiation Minor League contracts? You must be making some HUGE money bro.
"I fail to see how providing minor league kids with their equipment is improper. So, once you sign a client, obtaining a deal with a manufacturer isn't obtaining his equipment?"
Getting a deal with an equipment company is radically different from buying their equipment for them.
"What about the players who aren't offered contracts by manufacturers?"
Not one client of mine doesn't either have a contract for their equipment which pays them to use a certain brand or a company willing to supply it without a compensation.
"and I refuse to let an A-ball kid who might not even earn $1,000 per month pay for his stuff."
Again, you won't let "an A-ball kid who might not even earn $1,000 per month" pay for his own gear but you'll sue him to secure a commission on a contract that pays him a whole $150/month more than a dead ape could get him?
Interesting note over 95 % of the top 100 players drafted in 2003 amateur draft had agents.
The biggest problem these days are there are more totally clueless people calling them agents and giving bad advice than good agents out there. No one ever reports about an agent doing a good job, you just hear all the bad stuff and corruption by agents.
If your agent/advisor is doing a bad job fire him.Players switch agents/advisors all the time
I ran into a ton of "So called Agents down at 2000 Perfect Game Wood bat in Jupiter.
Alot moves by people calling themselves agents. Harrass the Baseball America team to get their client on the team and then into the game. Claimed he threw 90's , threw 84 mph in the game.
Claim their client was top prospect and demand scouts tella look at their client.
23 year old Northern League pitcher who only threw 87 -88 mph in the bull pen. Scouts turn off their guns and walked away in 2 minutes of throwing. They could see over 100 pitchers 6 years younger throw harder in the games
The biggest problem these days are there are more totally clueless people calling them agents and giving bad advice than good agents out there. No one ever reports about an agent doing a good job, you just hear all the bad stuff and corruption by agents.
If your agent/advisor is doing a bad job fire him.Players switch agents/advisors all the time
I ran into a ton of "So called Agents down at 2000 Perfect Game Wood bat in Jupiter.
Alot moves by people calling themselves agents. Harrass the Baseball America team to get their client on the team and then into the game. Claimed he threw 90's , threw 84 mph in the game.
Claim their client was top prospect and demand scouts tella look at their client.
23 year old Northern League pitcher who only threw 87 -88 mph in the bull pen. Scouts turn off their guns and walked away in 2 minutes of throwing. They could see over 100 pitchers 6 years younger throw harder in the games
Glad to see you back voodoo. I was beginning to miss you.
How is alleging that I give kids equipment in order to entice them to sign with me not an attempt to discredit me? How about all the other comments in your all-caps line of posts? You didn't merely disagree, or respectfully post your own view, you blatantly attacked me with classic junior high lines such as "get a clue." Brilliant.
About the suit thing. At NO time did I say I'd sue a player. In fact, my original advice stated that no agent does this because of other considerations. I t was just one of the reasons I recommend someone with a lw background be retained as agent. My opinion. Disagree? No big whoop, but let it go.
Secondly, Where in my posts does it say I charge commission on a minor leaguer's contract? Where? In fact, we both know an agent cannot charge a percentage of a minor leaguer's accrued income.
You really need to stop arriving at your own conclusions.
Alas, as much as I enjoy shooting you down, I think this post is regaining its purpose. In any event, even if I answer all your posts, all your going to do is reply with more accusations.
I think the rest of the board members would agree that its time you and me kiss and make up. So SMOOCH SMOOCH.
(LOL)
FM
How is alleging that I give kids equipment in order to entice them to sign with me not an attempt to discredit me? How about all the other comments in your all-caps line of posts? You didn't merely disagree, or respectfully post your own view, you blatantly attacked me with classic junior high lines such as "get a clue." Brilliant.
About the suit thing. At NO time did I say I'd sue a player. In fact, my original advice stated that no agent does this because of other considerations. I t was just one of the reasons I recommend someone with a lw background be retained as agent. My opinion. Disagree? No big whoop, but let it go.
Secondly, Where in my posts does it say I charge commission on a minor leaguer's contract? Where? In fact, we both know an agent cannot charge a percentage of a minor leaguer's accrued income.
You really need to stop arriving at your own conclusions.
Alas, as much as I enjoy shooting you down, I think this post is regaining its purpose. In any event, even if I answer all your posts, all your going to do is reply with more accusations.
I think the rest of the board members would agree that its time you and me kiss and make up. So SMOOCH SMOOCH.
(LOL)
FM
fmarq7901
So SMOOCH SMOOCH.
(LOL)
Sorry, I don't play opn that team.
So SMOOCH SMOOCH.
(LOL)
Sorry, I don't play opn that team.
Quick question...if a high school senior is drafted and has an advisor work with him throughout the draft, how is he paid because techically he never negotiated with the team directly or indirectly?
So all of you that are taking 5% commission on the signing bonus acting as their advisor, how does that work? Also, some of you said you are representing them as an agent; does the team know this, because there goes your leverage (if the team is aware the player has an agent there goes his eligibility).
So all of you that are taking 5% commission on the signing bonus acting as their advisor, how does that work? Also, some of you said you are representing them as an agent; does the team know this, because there goes your leverage (if the team is aware the player has an agent there goes his eligibility).
they are called advisors and every MLB scout will ask who is representing you, once you sign a pro contract , that person is now your agent and will usually charge 3 to 5 % of your signing bonus
Player Agents
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/prospectwatch/index111.html
Player Agents
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/prospectwatch/index111.html
Thanks for your quick response Dibble. However, your answer doesn't truly answer my question. Under the NCAA rules, an advisor may not directly or indirectly negotiate with a team on behalf of his client. Understanding this, it would jeopardize the athlete's eligibility if the advisor was questioned by the scout about his signability. Also, why would anyone pay an advisor that can't directly or indirectly negotiate a contract with the team? I understand that once a player signs a professional contract he can hire an agent, but I want to know what happens beforehand. Does the advisor take a percentage of the signing bonus after the player signs? Even this under the NCAA is a violation as the rule states that an advisor may not be paid from future contract earnings.
Curious.
Curious.
Reality: agents/advisors will talk directly to MLB teams about a players draft intentions, supposely against NCAA rules but it is almost never enforced.
Good example AROD advised by Scott Boras in HS, told the mariners you can't talk to his client at all only to him directly and just through FAXES. Clear NCAA violation , but never enforced.
Keep in mind a good advisor/agent is invaluable in a draft negoitations. terrible advice from can kill a prospect, just ask Matt Harrington.
Good example AROD advised by Scott Boras in HS, told the mariners you can't talk to his client at all only to him directly and just through FAXES. Clear NCAA violation , but never enforced.
Keep in mind a good advisor/agent is invaluable in a draft negoitations. terrible advice from can kill a prospect, just ask Matt Harrington.
Unbelievable that the NCAA has a rule on this yet don't enforce it...thanks for helping out. Do you know if the advisor gets paid off the signing bonus, irrespective of the NCAA rule?
voodoochile you have a pm
you become a pro and can hire and pay an agent once you sign a pro contract. Keep in mind not all agents charge for their service. It depends alot of how much of a signing bonus you get.
they are not gonna charge %4 for a senior signing that signs for $1,000. they don't really need an agent either
they are not gonna charge %4 for a senior signing that signs for $1,000. they don't really need an agent either
I agree on never charging a client for that little amount.
So do advisors get paid? Why would an agent take compensation for the draft if he didn't negotitate the contract?
So do advisors get paid? Why would an agent take compensation for the draft if he didn't negotitate the contract?
