Snoring - serious / Apnea / Update

Do you sleep on your back? Sometimes this causes you to snore. If so, try placing a pillow on your side so you don't roll over on your back.

My wife wears earplugs, and she has a roll of duct tape bedside for me, in case I happen to get into the tequila. So far that seems to have made things more tolerable for her.

My Dad wears a device when he sleeps that is a nebulizer. It keeps moisture for his nose I guess. My Mom says that the low hum is a great improvement over the chain saw she has slept next to for 50 years

Is there a weight issue? If you have packed on the pounds, losing weight WORKS. I lost 30 lbs and stopped snoring.

Check to see if it is apnea as well. This is actually pretty dangerous as well because you stop breating in your sleep. They give you a machine with an oxygen mask that forces air into your nose during the night.

I had a player one time who had it. We went on a spring break trip and he had to bring it with him to the hotel.

i use the breathe right strips,the wife say's they work........ but she could be going into the other room too.

also i'm about 2 pork chops away from 280, that could be a reason for snoring. come to think of it i snore when i'm awake too. hmmm.

Snoring is serious!- can lead to strokes, heart attacks, H BP.

Krak-anyone else- feel free to PM me-

Happy to help as I am the Coordinator of a Sleep Disorders Center.

Players should be screened also. Craig Hansen-red sox had sleep problems and stopped breathing about 65 times per hour due to tonsils/adenoids and deviated septum. If they snore loudly, they should be screened for sleep apnea. You can google Hansen and sleep and find the story

http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/projo_20071204_hansen.677f3f65.html

Hard to react to major league come-backers on the equivalent of 2 hours sleep!

Southpaw Son could you explain exactly how snoring leads to strokes, heart attacks and other things? It's not that I disbelieve you it's just I can't bend my mind around as to how this works. I have heard / read all the same things but never a why it happens.

Thanks

coach check your PM for additional info

but for this posting :

it has an impact on the heart as each cut=off of oxygen causes the heart to slow down and then after Co2 builds, the person wakes and the heart starts to rapidly beat to deliver oxygen to the body/brain. this constant ramping up and down all night of the heart creates havoc over the long hall. Depriving the heart of oxygen is obviously a severe situation,

Blood pressure doesnt dip with these folks as it should when you sleep.

I have done hundreds of these studies and watched people have a heart pause for up to 8 seconds while they try to break through an apnea. I have seen folks go almost a full minute or longer without breathing and their oxygen levels fall to meaningless values instead of a value in the 90s like a healthy person would have while asleep

They also end up with hardened arteries due to this frequent oxygen deprivation and suffer up to a 3 time higher risk of stroke.

Thanks for all the good info. I'm a complete side-sleeper (flippin' and floppin', but never on back or stomach). I asked my wife to describe any patterns or unusual things she might have noticed when I snore and she said generally I'll be snoring for awhile then suddenly wake up.....and that's most often about 4 hours into my sleep....then I am wide awake and go out to the couch, watch Seinfeld DVDs, and eventually fall asleep again. This scenario has unfolded almost every night for the past two years......

I could certainly stand to lose 30-40 pounds, and maybe that would help kick it. Problem is, I've been trying off and on to lose that weight for years and years and don't make much progress -- probably due to always being tired, then eating to try and perk up......it's a vicious cycle (or circle)!!

KRAK...
...this sounds A LOT like sleep apnea. I would suggest a visit to a doctor as the sleep apnea can be a sign or lead to a serious cardiac condition. Think of Reggie White...

Krak,

30-40 lbs is a tall order. With a goal of losing 20, my wife (she's a PT) has me on a low carb/low fat diet. It took some getting used to, but I found I can actually live without bread and pasta. The weight is coming off (10lbs. over 30 days) and I'm feeling much better throughout the day. No energy dips after lunch, and no naps when I get home from work. Might be worth a try.

I saw a TV advertisement just recently about a product that you pop in your mouth at night as you sleep. It looked sorta like a mouth piece....???

I'm waiting on mine to arrive! lol.....j/k.

I've lost about 25lbs since September from dieting and exercise 5 days a week. My wife said that the snoring has "slowed down" a good bit which I will take!

.

Get rid of those Seinfeld DVDs and you'll be fine Krak.





Not that there is anything wrong with them.

Southpaw son,

My son, now 8, had to have his tonsils and adenoids removed because of sleep apnea. Not only did it wreak havoc on his sleep, but the resulting loss of rack-time caused severe behavioral problems. Once the tonsils and adenoids were gone, he started sleeping through the night and his behavior improved tremendously.

Sleep Disorder Centers are a true blessing!

quote:

Originally posted by 27"sDad:
Southpaw son,

My son, now 8, had to have his tonsils and adenoids removed because of sleep apnea. Not only did it wreak havoc on his sleep, but the resulting loss of rack-time caused severe behavioral problems. Once the tonsils and adenoids were gone, he started sleeping through the night and his behavior improved tremendously.

Sleep Disorder Centers are a true blessing!

Thanks for the kind words. You are lucky someone picked up on your childs sleep. Too often this is missed and the behavior is misdiagnosed as ADD when it is simply a tired child that cant sleep. Usually the tonsils and adenoids are the cause. Kids should not be snoring unless they have a cold.

Some kids have tonsils so large that they literally seal up the airway when the child dozes off to sleep.

These kids act out, are hyper, cant focus due to their sleep deprivation.

Glad to hear it worked out for you.

Southpaw Son,

You're very welcome.

His Pediatrician referred him after listening to our "tales of woe", as a precursor to an ADD diagnosis. The Sleep Center discovered the problem, and the surgery worked like a charm.

Southpaw son- I was reading your thread that snoring can cause arteries to harden leading to stroke, has there been any connections made between snoring an Alzheimer's?

quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
Southpaw son- I was reading your thread that snoring can cause arteries to harden leading to stroke, has there been any connections made between snoring an Alzheimer's?

Well, I should clarify, not everyone that snores has apnea. It is the impact from the apnea that causes the sroke connection. Usually if your snoring is loud enough to be a disturbance to a bed partner (or the neighbors down the street! ) than some degree of apnea is present.

Wow!- i cant believe that a few weeks after I registered here,and without any mention in my profile of my work, the topic of snoring came up!- fate!

and Alzheimers as well!!- My mom has Alzheimers and when I was a teen (35 years ago) I used to watch her fall asleep at the TV each evening with long periods of silence (which later once I became I sleep tech, I realized were long apneas) and then a loud snore.

Later on, she developed severe Alzheimers. She is still alive but really lost within herself and though I get to visit her (she still lives with my dad) she really has no clue as to who i am. It is a truly terrible disease.

This made me also wonder if there was a connection.

It would make sense that long periods of oxygen deprivation to the brain would cause plague build up as well as memory interference. And i also banter with fellow sleep professionals that there are no young people with alzheimers so why is it so far fetched to think that this apnea over the long term doesnt impact the memory areas of the brain in a permanent fashion.

They are doing some research in this area and have found cognitive improvement with Alzheimers patients that are using CPAP treatment. CPAP is a mask that the apea patient uses to splint their airway and prevent the apneas. I will PM some info to you that I have on my computer. It is interesting to research further. Also, I wonder if folks who have severe apnea and experience micro-sleeps and memory problems due to their undiagnosed apnea, are misdiagnosed as having onset of Alzheimers.

The jury is out,some docs have claimed it is not a cause but I am leaning towards a connection of the two. The prevalence of apnea in the dementia patient is reported as high as 70%-80%! In the general population the rate is about 10% It definetely seems to be a long term attack on the brain and the death of cells .

great question! - I will keep you posted if I see any new research cross my desk.

Sorry for running so long here!

Southpaw Son,

I am truly sorry about your mother. My wife was diagnosed with early onset Dementia/Alzheimers close to 2 years ago. It is a terrible disease, even in its early stages.

27

I too, am sorry to hear about you wife. I have sent you a PM with my contact info. If I can be of any assistance at all, please do not hestitate to call or write to me.

Thank you this info was very interesting. Many families deal with this horrible disease. Keep up the good work from all of the relatives of its victims.

Southpaw Son,

Thank you for the info. I included more information in my response to your PM.

On a public note, people such as your father are my personal heroes. I'm pretty sure that none of them feel that way, for I know that I don't feel like one. But each family member's story dealing with Alzheimers that I learn about gives me hope that I will be able to shoulder my responsibilities should my wife's condition worsen.

Your father and mother are in our prayers. And, to echo deldad, thank you for your efforts.

I have sleep apnea, and thank God for my wife who noticed the symptoms. I was a heavy snoorer, and frequently moved alot in bed, not to mention the occasional gasping for air.

I did a sleep study and my problem was diagnosed. I've been sleeping with a C-PAP device for a few years now and it has changed my life! I wake up refreshed and ready to go.

Sleep Apnea is a serious issue and can cause numerous health problems related to your heart. It is also a major cause of drowsy driving.

My son was having a hard time staying awake in classes, and we noticed some moderate snoring at times when he slept. After talking to a few doctors, we had a sleep study done on him.

That's where they hook you up to all sorts of sensors and tell you to go to sleep, and they look for how many times you wake up while in the deepest sleep, the REM.

Sure enough, he had moderate to severe sleep apnea, which is defined by how many times in an hour sleep is interrupted by waking himself up.

The reason his brain wakes him is because when he sleeps, his muscles in his throat relax and collapse, closing the airway. For him, it is caused by the anatomy of his throat: a low palate, large tonsils, etc. The airway is very narrow, and so it doesn't take much relaxing of the muscles before they close off the airway.

One option was the C-pap machine. It creates negative pressure, which keeps the airway open. It really works, as Larrythompson says. We had that option, but it would mean a lifetime of hooking himself up to it, all the way through college and beyond.

The ENT doc thought that because of his throat anatomy, his age, and the fact that he was in very good physical condition, that he was a good candidate for surgery. Remove the tonsils, and shorted the uvula, thereby widening the airway. The doc thought it was a 90% chance that this would dramatically improve the problem. He said it might be different if he was middle age or older and overweight, but at his age/shape, surgery can really be effective.

He had the surgery last Wednesday, so we are one week post op. It was a long week, but for the most part the recovery was not a nightmare. He lost 13 pounds so far, and is now starting to get more food down.

He has to get more time behind him before we can tell if the surgery had the intended effect, because there will be post-op swelling for several more weeks as his throat heals.

But, I thought people here might benefit from knowing this experience.

Sleep apnea is not just snoring. Lots of people snore who don't have the repeated waking that defines apnea.

But long term apnea is indeed dangerous. High blood pressure is just one of the effects. Imagine spending your whole life without the benefit of the REM sleep! And imagine playing college baseball with that built in handicap.

That is why we opted for the surgery. Football season ended, and Christmas break seemed like the obvious time.

Hope this info helps others who might be in the same situation.

.
Thoughts and prayers to your son for a short, full recovery and a long, glorious and career...fully rested.

44
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LARRY,

Great to hear that it has helped you in such a profound manner. I am sure your wife is sleeping better also now that she doesnt have to worry about your gasping etc.

Working where I do, I get to see this type of letter often and it is always nice to know that folks are doing so well.

ROB

Wow!!

You are impressive with the information you gave!

You really did your homework!!

Your son should really notice improvement in his nights and his days once he gets healed. We treat kids also and the usual culprit and solution are tonsils and adenoids for kids.

One correction though, -CPAP is positive pressure on the airway. It actually stands for Continuous Positive Air Pressure

Other than that, you get high grades for your info!

Best wishes to you and your son!

Larry and Observer - thanks!

It looks as if his recovery will be just as hoped. I was pretty nervous, because I read lots of message board accounts from adults who had tonsillectomies. The recovery experience ranged from "really bad soreness for 10 days or so" to "excruciating pain for weeks on end requiring lots of painkillers."

Jeff weathered it so far pretty much on the good end of that spectrum. A week out now and it's been two days since he's had any painkiller. His energy is still not normal (I'd say his calorie intake is down 75%) but that will recover as his nutrition normalizes.

So, we feel very fortunate that it wasn't on the other end of the spectrum pain wise.

Thanks again!

Oh - and yes, CP(ositive)AP! Duh!

Rob,
Glad to hear Jeff's Sx went well and lets all hope that he licks this thing. Sleep disorders are no fun.
I'm sure you know that there is risk involved in these procedures. A child here in ABQ recently died after elective tonsellectomy to address mild apnea. It had worked well for the dad, and the thought was to try and nip it in the bud. Anyway, the kid went home after the procedure, went to sleep, and never woke up! The father is beating himself up pretty bad right now. Very tragic.
I myself have moderate SA and I have a CPAP, but I don't use it anymore. Too cumbersome. One of the problems I found is it forces one to sleep in supine. As Southpaw son can attest, sleep studies are also conducted in this position- lying on your back. That's fine if it's comfortable, but if your used to sleeping in prone or side-lying, not so much. I'm most apnic in this position- I sleep much better on my side.

quote:

I'm sure you know that there is risk involved in these procedures

Indeed I do! That was one source of my nervousness. I am not a fan of general anesthetic. Obviously, it is necessary for a lot of surgical procedures, but it's more or less like half killing someone and waking them back up. So when my son emerged was coherent again after surgery, I breathed a sigh of relief.

Then there's risk of infection ... and so on.

So far so good. These things are done all the time, and the tragedies such as the one you describe (how horrible that is) are very rare, that fact doesn't exactly quell every fear when it is your child!

quote:

Originally posted by spizzlepop:
Rob,
Glad to hear Jeff's Sx went well and lets all hope that he licks this thing. Sleep disorders are no fun.
I'm sure you know that there is risk involved in these procedures. A child here in ABQ recently died after elective tonsellectomy to address mild apnea. It had worked well for the dad, and the thought was to try and nip it in the bud. Anyway, the kid went home after the procedure, went to sleep, and never woke up! The father is beating himself up pretty bad right now. Very tragic.
I myself have moderate SA and I have a CPAP, but I don't use it anymore. Too cumbersome. One of the problems I found is it forces one to sleep in supine. As Southpaw son can attest, sleep studies are also conducted in this position- lying on your back. That's fine if it's comfortable, but if your used to sleeping in prone or side-lying, not so much. I'm most apnic in this position- I sleep much better on my side.

Spizzle

No need to have to sleep on your back- they may ask that for a portion of the test but not at home. I will PM you and give you my contact info if you need any info. There are plenty of options for you.

also, how young was the child- as sometimes they do this when the kids are very very young and this has a risk for complications. I would say under 3 yrs old or so and I would wait on surgery. Anybody,child or adult, with untreated or undiagnosed apnea who has surgery and anesthesia could be at a bigger risk as they cant wake themselves up from the apneas. I believe the real young young kids also tend to run into bleeding/ loss of blood issues, but again I am speaking about up to 3 years old or so.

Rob, so glad to hear Jeff is recovering well. Can't imagine trying to eat for quite awhile after all of that! He'll gain it all back quickly I'm sure.

As for my own snoring, I thought I'd give the BreatheRight strips a try - what the heck. And the wife has experimented on sleeping in the same room the last two nights....and was still there when I woke up! So, maybe, these have helped. I'll have to ask her again this morning, once she comes around, if or how badly I was snoring......I kind of like how 'open' my sinuses feel when wearing these things (broke my nose playing ball in HS but never went to have it fixed by a doc). I hate having to peel them off in the morning, though!

The wife says that I Snore loader at night after I've been Drinking a couple of Alcoholic Drinks.
I believe She will be wearing some Earplugs tonight.

EH

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
The wife says that I Snore loader at night after I've been Drinking a couple of Alcoholic Drinks.
I believe She will be wearing some Earplugs tonight.

EH

The wife is right!- In addition to relaxing your brain, that alcohol relaxes your upper airway muscles and adds more blockage in your airway so that you can truly sound like a wounded bison.

So... tell the wife you got her new ear plugs for Christmas, and tell her you wish that sleep guy named southpaw son would stop posting and making you feel concerned about that buzz saw snore!

Perhaps you would like to have sing a favorite holiday song from here in the sleep lab

Its called:I saw Mommy sock ny Dad who Snores!

Here goes- to the tune of I saw Mommy kissing Santa Claus

I saw Mommy sock my Dad who snores
when I passed their bedroom late last night

She really looked perturbed
cause her sleep was so disturbed
My dad could wake a dead man
and it's getting on her nerves


I saw Mommy sock my dad last night
boy she really belted him but gooood!

He was heading for the couch
when I heard him holler OUCH!!
when my Mommy socked my Dad last night!

Merry Christmas!

quote:

He was heading for the couch
when I heard him holler OUCH!!
when my Mommy socked my Dad last night!

Merry Christmas!

HE HE

EH

just wanted all to know that I have changed my forum name from SOUTHPAW SON to K COMPLEX so as not to impose on another poster, SOUTHPAW DAD.

SOUTHPAW DAD was gracious enough to say it was not a problem but I felt it was confusing to folks and so hopefully K COMPLEX is not near anybody elses name out here.

Merry Xmas all!!!- and Happy New Year!!

Update: my wife said "I didn't snore at all last night" ( ...tossin' and turnin'..... ) using the BreatheRight strip again. Wow - this could be a real breakthrough!

quote:

Originally posted by Krakatoa:
Update: my wife said "I didn't snore at all last night" ( ...tossin' and turnin'..... ) using the BreatheRight strip again. Wow - this could be a real breakthrough!

Congrats!!-Here is another ahhh... how you say..... "solution"!

Are you musical? how about the didgeridoo to help supplement the breathe right regimen? This way you can sleep, and in the morning, wake the neighbors!

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1537183.htm

Hey I might give that a try. I tried the old CPAP again last night, the wife says it makes even more noise that I do.
I did sleep well though. I dreamt that I was shooting down MiGs.

False Hope Update: After two semi-successful nights using BreatheRight strips, the third night took it all back to square one -- snored like a freight train. Wife went out and bought a new futon to throw down in the study.........oh well.......