So what would your kid do?

If it is a serious sport (don't have girls flag football here son not being smart I just don't know) you skip prom.  If it is just like a club thing they do for fun you call and see if the other team will reschedule if not skip the game.

When I was a kid our prom always conflicted with the state track meet. Those track athletes fortunate enough to make state went to the meet and skipped prom.  

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

That's an easy one!  graduations are long and boring!!!  At least prom night...  never mind.

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

really?  guess I'm too hard core-   most of the population graduates from HS,   how many ever get to play in a championship? 

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

I bet I know what the choice will be.  I've seen kids get their diplomas (cap and gown on) from the AD at the State championship game when it conflicted with graduation.  

Same thoughts here as FWP.....I had no idea girls flag football was a real sport, but it sounds like it is.  State Championship?  I guess it will be up to the individual.  A girl who never sees the field may head to prom.....starting QB....probably not lol.   I know if it was my son he'd be at the game....but our 3rd string RF probably would have gone to prom

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Nuke83 posted:

 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

The neutral site thing is an issue.  I get why they do it, but we're in Florida and due to geography neutral sites are usually hours away.  The closest is baseball, and that's still a couple of hours away.

I do think the gender of the athlete comes into play.  It seems the girls are way more invested in prom than the guys.

Even my son's girlfriend - who is a total tomboy in sweats and sneakers 99% of the time is taking it seriously.  My son on the other hand ducked doing a tux fitting for so long that my wife and I had to trick him into going to the formal wear place.

I'm curious to see what will happen this weekend.

If I were the parents of the girl I would plan some type of alternate prom type party so girls could dress up and do pictures. Do a dinner and smaller scale dance.

My son would of chosen state championship. Girls maybe more into the prom. 

My kid?   He'd play in the game.  Wouldn't exactly be a tough choice for him

You still graduate if you don't walk. You don't win a championship if you don't play. You can go to a dance, party, and all that goes with it as long as you choose to. You can never go back and have the opportunity to play HS baseball once the opportunity has passed. I wouldn't even have had to ask. In fact if I said "Hey you can play a game tonight or go to the prom?" "Who we playing?"

1. Proms are a special memory that every kid should have.

2. Graduations...not so much....I would just skip that Shu

3. If my kid was a senior I would encourage them to go to Prom, if not a senior I would encourage them to go to the game.

FWP posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

That's an easy one!  graduations are long and boring!!!  At least prom night...  never mind.

LoL 

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Nuke - Great point but what I don't understand is not having a third Atlanta area option, like the Gwinnett Braves or Kennesaw State stadiums, for example. 

In the 7A classification, you have two Gwinnett and two teams from Woodstock. The winners will have to travel to Savannah or Rome, which takes away a lot of the students from attending the championship game. Now, it will probably be mostly parents and an empty stadium. When we hosted Mill Creek for the region championship, there were over 500 people in attendance. 

TEAM COMMITMENT

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

I'm pretty sure that not one senior would think twice about missing graduation if we win in the semis. 

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

I think that sums up the quandry.

You've got to pick one, and I don't think either is the correct answer in every scheduling conflict. 

Rob T posted:

Here is a dilemma that may arise at my son's school...

The girl's flag football team is one of the best in the state.  They are playing tonight to advance to the state semi-finals Friday, and then the championship on Saturday.

The conflict?  Saturday is prom, and the game site is about 7 hours away.  In other words - if they make it that far, it's one or the other.

I'm pretty sure if by some divine intervention my son's baseball team had made it to that point, he would opt for the game.  That's my son though - he's going to prom, but it's never been a big deal to him.

I know that some of the girls playing have been heavily involved in the planning and coordination of prom this year, and I'd have to assume it means a lot to them.

So I was kind of curious - what would your kids do?

Does it matter if we are talking a male vs a female?  Does the sport matter? Is money spent on a dress/tux/tickets/etc. a factor?

I guess they are both once in a lifetime events.  To me the state championship would be the choice - but I'm probably a little biased.  I certainly haven't been dress shopping.

I'd certainly hate to be the coach sitting on the bus coming back if they ended up losing the championship game - and missed prom. My god the drama.

 

Commitment was made to the team. I would urge my daughter to play...

We are likely to have the same conflict. The Elite Eight of our state tournament is scheduled for Friday/Saturday. Our graduation is Sunday (my son is a junior, so not our problem). The forecast right now calls for heavy rain on Thursday, turning to snow Thursday night and Friday. So, it's possible, they might shift the tournament to Sat/Sun. We have six seniors, but only two see any real playing time. I don't have any doubt, though, which event will take priority.

Our local D3 baseball team had a game out of town the day of graduation. The seniors on the team received their diplomas on the bus home, and then the baseball team had a special celebration on their home field for their seniors and their families. You can make special memories out of almost anything.

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

Scenario...

Your son is HS senior starting catcher and leading hitter on the team.  There's a huge performance gap between him and the #2 catcher.  Most of the team has come up through the program together and worked for three years building the team into a state contender.  They pushed each other to work hard in practices, work outside of practices on their own, anything they could to accomplish their team goals.  They are proud of their efforts, individually and as a TEAM.  They made it to semi's last year and lost a tough one.  Now, the work has finally paid off.  Fought through some tough district and semi games and made it... State Championship Game.  Bonus - #2 pitcher won the semi game and you have #1 lined up to start.   

Your son and #1P decide to skip the game and go to prom.    Really? 

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

Scenario...

Your son is HS senior starting catcher and leading hitter on the team.  There's a huge performance gap between him and the #2 catcher.  Most of the team has come up through the program together and worked for three years building the team into a state contender.  They pushed each other to work hard in practices, work outside of practices on their own, anything they could to accomplish their team goals.  They are proud of their efforts, individually and as a TEAM.  They made it to semi's last year and lost a tough one.  Now, the work has finally paid off.  Fought through some tough district and semi games and made it... State Championship Game.  Bonus - #2 pitcher won the semi game and you have #1 lined up to start.   

Your son and #1P decide to skip the game and go to prom.    Really? 

That can't be reality....right?

As others have said, commitment is to the team.  My boy would see it that way.  I think that the girls would too.  My oldest had a similar decision to make her senior year of HS.  Prom or Coca Cola scholar.  No brainer for her on the latter.

My girls had a Jr National Vball championship at PSU the afternoon of Prom and we found ourselves making the six hour drive to the Prom while they changed into their Prom dresses and put on their makeup. To the hardcore athlete the choice is simple. You make The Game and arrange your schedule as best as possible. 

That is why, around here at least, they adjust the times for High School ball games  when the SAT or ACT is being given on the same day. They take the decision away from the athlete. Thank God

I think the answer we really need from Rob T - is this a serious sport?  If the answer is yes then you have to play.  Prom is expensive and dangerous especially for the girls.  And as for the graduation stuff, seriously I would do just about anything to avoid anyone's graduation.  For my kids its optional.  If they want to go fine if not fine.  I will be 0 for 2 on my oldest daughters graduations.  Graduations are like hallmark holidays.  Seriously think about it.  Is graduating high school really an accomplishment?  No.  Its a non event really.  This year when daughter #2 graduates I will be on a travel ball trip with son.  I skipped my own college graduation and would have skipped high school if allowed! 

So, in my office, several of the clerks have kids who play or played ball. One is the aunt of a current senior on our team. They all were quite vocal that graduation would take precedent and the one aunt swears that no way would her sister let the kid miss graduation over the ball game. Uh, oh, we might have a problem.

FWP posted:

I think the answer we really need from Rob T - is this a serious sport?  If the answer is yes then you have to play.  Prom is expensive and dangerous especially for the girls.  And as for the graduation stuff, seriously I would do just about anything to avoid anyone's graduation.  For my kids its optional.  If they want to go fine if not fine.  I will be 0 for 2 on my oldest daughters graduations.  Graduations are like hallmark holidays.  Seriously think about it.  Is graduating high school really an accomplishment?  No.  Its a non event really.  This year when daughter #2 graduates I will be on a travel ball trip with son.  I skipped my own college graduation and would have skipped high school if allowed! 

I would have skipped my college graduation if my wife would have let me. Boring!

When did we make kids stop being kids?

CaCO3Girl posted:

When did we make kids stop being kids?

When I was a kid, I could have cared less about prom or graduation. Most of my friends were the same way. We were all more interested in the post-prom and post-graduation festivities.

I think kids want to have as much fun as possible so most (not all) would choose playing a sport over prom or graduation, if you're a serious athlete as a few others have mentioned. I would have been absolutely fine with skipping prom or graduation even if I had nothing else to do. 

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

Scenario...

Your son is HS senior starting catcher and leading hitter on the team.  There's a huge performance gap between him and the #2 catcher.  Most of the team has come up through the program together and worked for three years building the team into a state contender.  They pushed each other to work hard in practices, work outside of practices on their own, anything they could to accomplish their team goals.  They are proud of their efforts, individually and as a TEAM.  They made it to semi's last year and lost a tough one.  Now, the work has finally paid off.  Fought through some tough district and semi games and made it... State Championship Game.  Bonus - #2 pitcher won the semi game and you have #1 lined up to start.   

Your son and #1P decide to skip the game and go to prom.    Really? 

Okay, but the flip side - say the player in question was the end of the bench guy.  Say he was valedictorian and was going to have to miss graduation?  We could come up with hypotheticals all day, but I don't think we can definitely say one way or the other is carved in stone.

We always want our kids to honor commitments to their team - but there's got to be some sort of individual sliding scale as to what outweighs that commitment. I guess for some it's maybe a family member in a life threatening situation, for some it's a once in a lifetime trip, for some it's prom or graduation.

As for the seriousness of Flag Football... It's not a huge sport I guess, but they do work hard at it.  The school went from only winning 2 games a couple of years ago to only losing 1 this year.  I believe the senior girls would play, but it certainly stinks for them.

It also stinks for the rest of the school who would have definitely driven hours to go support the team - but not on prom night. Now it's just going to be parents in an empty stadium.

CaCO3Girl posted:

When did we make kids stop being kids?

CaCO,

IMO, HS is the turning point in many ways.  Of course we still let them be kids in many ways as well.  Hell, I'm still a kid too often.  Yes, they should enjoy dances and games and hanging with friends.  Yes, we should still take them camping and skiing and provide for their needs.  We should let them be HS kids.  But, HS years are when many things should become more adult-like in regards to learning a stronger sense of responsibility and commitment, learning that choices have consequences, that good things are worth working for, that your word and commitment to others is meaningful.  For many, HS sports is one of the important vehicles to several of those learning opportunities. 

BTW, I'm still curious how you would handle the scenario I painted... I tried to make it something that you could possibly face.  And something like it plays out hundreds of times across several sports every year.

hshuler posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

When did we make kids stop being kids?

When I was a kid, I could have cared less about prom or graduation. Most of my friends were the same way. We were all more interested in the post-prom and post-graduation festivities.

I think kids want to have as much fun as possible so most (not all) would choose playing a sport over prom or graduation, if you're a serious athlete as a few others have mentioned. I would have been absolutely fine with skipping prom or graduation even if I had nothing else to do. 

Never went to prom - too expensive.  But did get asked by a couple girls who were...  lets see how can we say this PC...  'generous and giving'?  Looking back maybe I should have gone to prom!!  There is zero reason ever to go to a graduation but agree the post graduation festivities I was quite involved in.

Rob T posted:

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

Scenario...

Your son is HS senior starting catcher and leading hitter on the team.  There's a huge performance gap between him and the #2 catcher.  Most of the team has come up through the program together and worked for three years building the team into a state contender.  They pushed each other to work hard in practices, work outside of practices on their own, anything they could to accomplish their team goals.  They are proud of their efforts, individually and as a TEAM.  They made it to semi's last year and lost a tough one.  Now, the work has finally paid off.  Fought through some tough district and semi games and made it... State Championship Game.  Bonus - #2 pitcher won the semi game and you have #1 lined up to start.   

Your son and #1P decide to skip the game and go to prom.    Really? 

Okay, but the flip side - say the player in question was the end of the bench guy.  Say he was valedictorian and was going to have to miss graduation?  We could come up with hypotheticals all day, but I don't think we can definitely say one way or the other is carved in stone.

We always want our kids to honor commitments to their team - but there's got to be some sort of individual sliding scale as to what outweighs that commitment. I guess for some it's maybe a family member in a life threatening situation, for some it's a once in a lifetime trip, for some it's prom or graduation.

As for the seriousness of Flag Football... It's not a huge sport I guess, but they do work hard at it.  The school went from only winning 2 games a couple of years ago to only losing 1 this year.  I believe the senior girls would play, but it certainly stinks for them.

It also stinks for the rest of the school who would have definitely driven hours to go support the team - but not on prom night. Now it's just going to be parents in an empty stadium.

Yes, Rob, there are grey area issues and hypotheticals that can be difficult.  The valedictorian scenario is a great one.  Of course, family emergency or a truly important family anything would be an understood priority.  We try to set the guidelines with our baseball program that the expectation is that baseball is priority during baseball season and we often have the players acknowledge their commitment to the guys lining up next to them.  Then, we take each exception case by case.  A good example is Easter break.  We announce at the parent meeting that we play in an Easter/Spring tourney every year and players are expected to be there.  Prior to HS, many families take vacations during that break.  Well, we cannot function as a team if five or six families decide to go on vacation.  It's part of the commitment.  My desire is to create an environment where each player is aware and has every intent to commit to his teammates.  Then, if an exception scenario arises, it can be discussed and weighed but not taken lightly.  When every player is in this place, we have accomplished our goals in relation to team commitment, regardless of what final decisions are made.

For prom or graduation, I know my players would choose to honor their baseball commitment to their teammates and also want the opportunity to earn the payoff for the work they have put in and the excitement of winning a state Championship.  There are several dances that happen during HS years.  I think my players would come up with a creative way to re-enact the dance after the team quest.

Rob T posted:

 

I'd certainly hate to be the coach sitting on the bus coming back if they ended up losing the championship game - and missed prom. My god the drama.

 

I didn't know flag football was that big thing, but...

My son's team just had 10 seniors miss college commencement to play in the conference championship. The response he relayed to me from one of the seniors: "Yeah, lol, **** graduation, graduation sucks."  I told him I'm looking forward to him missing it for the same reason, I'll be there either way.

That's graduation, and not prom, and I can understand why prom might be more important to some, especially girls, but that's my data point.

Our section 'ship has been the same day as graduation for the past  4 years. Unfortunately nobody's had to make the choice yet, but if they did, I'd be shocked if a single player chose walking over playing.  Ditto for the parents, with maybe one or two exceptions over the years.

I know my daughter would choose the game over prom. Who wants to work that hard for a season and then skip the ultimate reward? That is part of being a kid too. She also went to prom 3 times, so by the 2nd or 3rd one, it's really not about the dance itself. It's about the prep, the dinner and the after prom. You can do all those things on another day.

My son skipped prom altogether this year. Not because of a conflict, but because he wasn't really interested. I think sometimes, we as parents, assign importance to things thinking our kids agree with us. Sometimes, we are way off. I was concerned when my son chose not go to prom this year. But that was a concern I was manufacturing out of my expectations. He and his girlfriend were totally fine with their decision. And now I get it and I'm really happy we didn't have to spend all that money. 

In the situation posed above, I really hope the school would do the right thing and refund the money for any tickets purchased. The girls are representing the school after all. 

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

When did we make kids stop being kids?

CaCO,

IMO, HS is the turning point in many ways.  Of course we still let them be kids in many ways as well.  Hell, I'm still a kid too often.  Yes, they should enjoy dances and games and hanging with friends.  Yes, we should still take them camping and skiing and provide for their needs.  We should let them be HS kids.  But, HS years are when many things should become more adult-like in regards to learning a stronger sense of responsibility and commitment, learning that choices have consequences, that good things are worth working for, that your word and commitment to others is meaningful.  For many, HS sports is one of the important vehicles to several of those learning opportunities. 

BTW, I'm still curious how you would handle the scenario I painted... I tried to make it something that you could possibly face.  And something like it plays out hundreds of times across several sports every year.

How would I handle that scenario...I would be lobbying either the baseball people or the school people (or maybe both) to move the date.

The thing is that high school means different things for everyone but across the US people can reflect back on their prom as THE event in high school.  The last dance...the last remnant of youth. Cool, uncool, jock or nerd you can go to the prom and you can get your picture taken under the horrible crepe paper archway and be a high school senior at YOUR prom.

My track districts were the day after Prom, as in be there 2 hours away at 8am....we made it work, we made adjustments. The field event people couldn't get fake nails, oh well.  The team had to be in bed by 10pm, oh well! We showed up with our hair curled, with pins in our hair, with half of last nights makeup still on...but we were at Districts AND we got to go to our prom.

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

When did we make kids stop being kids?

CaCO,

IMO, HS is the turning point in many ways.  Of course we still let them be kids in many ways as well.  Hell, I'm still a kid too often.  Yes, they should enjoy dances and games and hanging with friends.  Yes, we should still take them camping and skiing and provide for their needs.  We should let them be HS kids.  But, HS years are when many things should become more adult-like in regards to learning a stronger sense of responsibility and commitment, learning that choices have consequences, that good things are worth working for, that your word and commitment to others is meaningful.  For many, HS sports is one of the important vehicles to several of those learning opportunities. 

BTW, I'm still curious how you would handle the scenario I painted... I tried to make it something that you could possibly face.  And something like it plays out hundreds of times across several sports every year.

How would I handle that scenario...I would be lobbying either the baseball people or the school people (or maybe both) to move the date.

Won't happen. No one is moving anything for 1 or 2 kids that are impacted. Been down this road. We have to work around this every year in the playoffs. Having a playoff game on the same day as prom is the kiss of death. We would basically play early and kids would get to prom late. Never works out well. 

I love playing teams in the playoffs on their prom day though!

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

When did we make kids stop being kids?

CaCO,

IMO, HS is the turning point in many ways.  Of course we still let them be kids in many ways as well.  Hell, I'm still a kid too often.  Yes, they should enjoy dances and games and hanging with friends.  Yes, we should still take them camping and skiing and provide for their needs.  We should let them be HS kids.  But, HS years are when many things should become more adult-like in regards to learning a stronger sense of responsibility and commitment, learning that choices have consequences, that good things are worth working for, that your word and commitment to others is meaningful.  For many, HS sports is one of the important vehicles to several of those learning opportunities. 

BTW, I'm still curious how you would handle the scenario I painted... I tried to make it something that you could possibly face.  And something like it plays out hundreds of times across several sports every year.

How would I handle that scenario...I would be lobbying either the baseball people or the school people (or maybe both) to move the date.

The thing is that high school means different things for everyone but across the US people can reflect back on their prom as THE event in high school.  The last dance...the last remnant of youth. Cool, uncool, jock or nerd you can go to the prom and you can get your picture taken under the horrible crepe paper archway and be a high school senior at YOUR prom.

My track districts were the day after Prom, as in be there 2 hours away at 8am....we made it work, we made adjustments. The field event people couldn't get fake nails, oh well.  The team had to be in bed by 10pm, oh well! We showed up with our hair curled, with pins in our hair, with half of last nights makeup still on...but we were at Districts AND we got to go to our prom.

Yeah, I get all that (well, sort of - "across the US people can reflect back on thier prom as THE event in HS" ???? - would be an interesting poll )  .  But the scenario (and a realistic one) was that game day/time and prom night would not be moved, so an either/or decision must be made...  your decision?

My daughter's softball team had an away playoff game the afternoon of prom night. The kids wouldn't have time for pictures with parents and go out to dinner. A bunch of us pitched in and had it catered at our house. It saved a lot of time. The good party was the one we had after the kids left for the prom. 

My kids would never miss a playoff game for the prom. They would just show up when they could. My son missed college graduation for baseball.

CaCO3Girl posted:

The thing is that high school means different things for everyone but across the US people can reflect back on their prom as THE event in high school.  The last dance...the last remnant of youth. Cool, uncool, jock or nerd you can go to the prom and you can get your picture taken under the horrible crepe paper archway and be a high school senior at YOUR prom.

Yes, my most vivid memory of prom is being expelled from school for three days afterward.  This is how I know that I was once young.  Boy, was I stupid. 

ironhorse posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

When did we make kids stop being kids?

CaCO,

IMO, HS is the turning point in many ways.  Of course we still let them be kids in many ways as well.  Hell, I'm still a kid too often.  Yes, they should enjoy dances and games and hanging with friends.  Yes, we should still take them camping and skiing and provide for their needs.  We should let them be HS kids.  But, HS years are when many things should become more adult-like in regards to learning a stronger sense of responsibility and commitment, learning that choices have consequences, that good things are worth working for, that your word and commitment to others is meaningful.  For many, HS sports is one of the important vehicles to several of those learning opportunities. 

BTW, I'm still curious how you would handle the scenario I painted... I tried to make it something that you could possibly face.  And something like it plays out hundreds of times across several sports every year.

How would I handle that scenario...I would be lobbying either the baseball people or the school people (or maybe both) to move the date.

Won't happen. No one is moving anything for 1 or 2 kids that are impacted. Been down this road. We have to work around this every year in the playoffs. Having a playoff game on the same day as prom is the kiss of death. We would basically play early and kids would get to prom late. Never works out well. 

I love playing teams in the playoffs on their prom day though!

Or the day after. One school in our area always has prom on a Friday night. It's weird. I don't get it other than it must be cheaper to rent the venue. The baseball team ended up having a league baseball game the next day. They are in the top 10 in the state. They ended up losing to the 35th ranked team in the state. By a lot. And their ace pitcher gave up 2 dingers. 

I think my son would choose the game over prom.  He is always thinking about baseball exposure.  Last weekend he almost had to decide between a high school playoff game or a 14U travel team Perfect Game tournament.  Since he was a starter, he was going to the HS game and then the PG games were cancelled due to bad weather in VA.  I can honestly not remember any dances I attended in school, but I can still remember some plays I made on the fields in HS.  I can only recall getting a flat tire before one of the proms.  As my girlfriend stood on the sidewalk all dressed up and as I was lifting the trunk to get out the spare in my white tux, a gentleman stopped and changed the tire for me.  Saved the night.  No cell phones back then.

There is no question - at all - my son would go to the game.  If memory serves me, he went to prom senior year, but stayed for maybe 30 minutes and he and his friends all left for the "after" party.

I also know this.  In college, not a single senior on his team attended graduation in his 4 years there.  They were playing in the post season and were out of town playing every year.  He graduated a year after he was done with baseball, so he got to walk.  I'm glad we were able to do that - very glad.  But, had he been still playing baseball, there's no question about where his loyalties would have been.

I'm sure this is a scenario that never crossed anyone's mind when scheduling things.  The school is not exactly a sports powerhouse. At this time of year though I'm willing to bet that there are a lot of athletes having to choose between games and things like prom, graduations, award ceremonies, etc.

As it stands, the only sort of conflict the baseball team has to face is that the team banquet is being held the afternoon after prom.  Rather than the typical suit, my son says he is going in his tux.  Several teammates have said they aren't even sure they will be sober in time for the banquet.  It should be interesting.

kio posted:

I think my son would choose the game over prom.  He is always thinking about baseball exposure.  Last weekend he almost had to decide between a high school playoff game or a 14U travel team Perfect Game tournament.  Since he was a starter, he was going to the HS game and then the PG games were cancelled due to bad weather in VA.  I can honestly not remember any dances I attended in school, but I can still remember some plays I made on the fields in HS.  I can only recall getting a flat tire before one of the proms.  As my girlfriend stood on the sidewalk all dressed up and as I was lifting the trunk to get out the spare in my white tux, a gentleman stopped and changed the tire for me.  Saved the night.  No cell phones back then.

I think I would have beat up a kid on my team that chose prom over the championship-   geez-  what's this world coming to??? 

hshuler posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Nuke - Great point but what I don't understand is not having a third Atlanta area option, like the Gwinnett Braves or Kennesaw State stadiums, for example. 

In the 7A classification, you have two Gwinnett and two teams from Woodstock. The winners will have to travel to Savannah or Rome, which takes away a lot of the students from attending the championship game. Now, it will probably be mostly parents and an empty stadium. When we hosted Mill Creek for the region championship, there were over 500 people in attendance. 

How many levels of State baseball championships are there in Georgia?  More than 7 or is that the biggest?

HRCJR posted:

hshuler posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Nuke - Great point but what I don't understand is not having a third Atlanta area option, like the Gwinnett Braves or Kennesaw State stadiums, for example. 

In the 7A classification, you have two Gwinnett and two teams from Woodstock. The winners will have to travel to Savannah or Rome, which takes away a lot of the students from attending the championship game. Now, it will probably be mostly parents and an empty stadium. When we hosted Mill Creek for the region championship, there were over 500 people in attendance. 

How many levels of State baseball championships are there in Georgia?  More than 7 or is that the biggest?

7A is the biggest (and new this year IIRC).  There are 8 total (there's a public and a private 1A).

Without a doubt my son would opt to go play ball.  Had the baseball tea made it to the state finals his senior year they would have been playing the same day as graduation 400 miles away on the other side of the state.  They did have a brief ceremony on the field for the seniors of the teams that did play in the final championship game.

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Well, GHSA has just revised Georgia playoff championships to accommodate graduation dates at schools.

http://www.ghsa.net/baseball-c...-changed-graduations

jacjacatk posted:

HRCJR posted:

hshuler posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Nuke - Great point but what I don't understand is not having a third Atlanta area option, like the Gwinnett Braves or Kennesaw State stadiums, for example. 

In the 7A classification, you have two Gwinnett and two teams from Woodstock. The winners will have to travel to Savannah or Rome, which takes away a lot of the students from attending the championship game. Now, it will probably be mostly parents and an empty stadium. When we hosted Mill Creek for the region championship, there were over 500 people in attendance. 

How many levels of State baseball championships are there in Georgia?  More than 7 or is that the biggest?

7A is the biggest (and new this year IIRC).  There are 8 total (there's a public and a private 1A).

And, there is another governing body outside of GHSA (GISA) that has schools which play baseball.  GISA has two classifications, AA and AAA and crown a champion in each.

So combined with the 8 total classifications in GHSA, a total of 10 levels in Georgia.

Anyone who says "I would want my kid go to Prom" or "I would encourage my kid to go to Prom" should make sure that college & pro scouts aren't aware of that attitude, especially if the kid agrees!

Nuke83 posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Well, GHSA has just revised Georgia playoff championships to accommodate graduation dates at schools.

http://www.ghsa.net/baseball-c...-changed-graduations

Good for them!

I really hope that the neutral sites are revised next year to include an Atlanta-area option. There's a lot of highway in between Rome and Savannah. 

3and2Fastball posted:

Anyone who says "I would want my kid go to Prom" or "I would encourage my kid to go to Prom" should make sure that college & pro scouts aren't aware of that attitude, especially if the kid agrees!

Well, yea - but that only really impacts about what 10-15% of all high school baseball players?

Nuke83 posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Well, GHSA has just revised Georgia playoff championships to accommodate graduation dates at schools.

http://www.ghsa.net/baseball-c...-changed-graduations

Someone lobbied to have the date changed and it worked...hummmmm. Can happen!

Cabbagedad, my son has been competing in one thing or another since he could.  He use to race me in who could get dressed the fastest...he was 3! He would choose to play, however, I would choose to lobby hard so he, and his teammates, wouldn't have to choose.

hshuler posted:

Nuke83 posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Well, GHSA has just revised Georgia playoff championships to accommodate graduation dates at schools.

http://www.ghsa.net/baseball-c...-changed-graduations

Good for them!

I really hope that the neutral sites are revised next year to include an Atlanta-area option. There's a lot of highway in between Rome and Savannah. 

Rome is considered the "Atlanta" option.  There was talk of trying to use Foley Field, but I don't believe they could get the scheduling commitment from UGA.

I don't believe you'll ever see an option IN Atlanta.  GHSA does all they can to make the rural areas not feel like red headed step children.  Changing pitch count limits from 110 to 120 for the playoffs this season is an example of some of the steps they'll take to level the playing field.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Nuke83 posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Well, GHSA has just revised Georgia playoff championships to accommodate graduation dates at schools.

http://www.ghsa.net/baseball-c...-changed-graduations

Someone lobbied to have the date changed and it worked...hummmmm. Can happen!

Cabbagedad, my son has been competing in one thing or another since he could.  He use to race me in who could get dressed the fastest...he was 3! He would choose to play, however, I would choose to lobby hard so he, and his teammates, wouldn't have to choose.

It may have been their plan to visit the dates once the final four were determined in each class.  Doesn't make sense to guess who would or wouldn't have a conflict when you have 300 teams.  Much easier to swizzle when you're down to 32 teams.

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

Nuke83 posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Well, GHSA has just revised Georgia playoff championships to accommodate graduation dates at schools.

http://www.ghsa.net/baseball-c...-changed-graduations

Good for them!

I really hope that the neutral sites are revised next year to include an Atlanta-area option. There's a lot of highway in between Rome and Savannah. 

Rome is considered the "Atlanta" option.  There was talk of trying to use Foley Field, but I don't believe they could get the scheduling commitment from UGA.

I don't believe you'll ever see an option IN Atlanta.  GHSA does all they can to make the rural areas not feel like red headed step children.  Changing pitch count limits from 110 to 120 for the playoffs this season is an example of some of the steps they'll take to level the playing field.

Understood! 

If we win, Rome sounds better for a day trip. Although, Savannah sounds better for a vacation.

Honestly, I just want to win and would happily drive to Florida to play if we did.

Nuke83 posted:

jacjacatk posted:

HRCJR posted:

hshuler posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Nuke - Great point but what I don't understand is not having a third Atlanta area option, like the Gwinnett Braves or Kennesaw State stadiums, for example. 

In the 7A classification, you have two Gwinnett and two teams from Woodstock. The winners will have to travel to Savannah or Rome, which takes away a lot of the students from attending the championship game. Now, it will probably be mostly parents and an empty stadium. When we hosted Mill Creek for the region championship, there were over 500 people in attendance. 

How many levels of State baseball championships are there in Georgia?  More than 7 or is that the biggest?

7A is the biggest (and new this year IIRC).  There are 8 total (there's a public and a private 1A).

And, there is another governing body outside of GHSA (GISA) that has schools which play baseball.  GISA has two classifications, AA and AAA and crown a champion in each.

So combined with the 8 total classifications in GHSA, a total of 10 levels in Georgia.

That is a lot of High School Championships in Georgia.  Illinois has 3 million more people than Georgia but only 4 classes of Baseball Championships.  Publics & Privates together (though most privates play up at least 1 class than their enrollment).  Also need to win 7 one and done games.  Often only 1 or 2 days between games.  Need more than one pitcher.

Wasn't that long ago Illinois had only two classes.  A and AA.  That was it. Now that's hard to win a state championship.  In Wisconsin they have millions of classes regardless of small population.  Makes it feel almost embarrassing to win a state title.  Small medium and large.  Three classes all sports.  That's all you need. Maybe California and Texas could add a fourth or something. 7 or 8 classifications is way too many even for the largest states.  Not an accomplishment anymore. 

There is a town in GA called woodstock. It is 11.7 square miles big. Within that town there are two 7A high schools, one 6A high school.  That's over 6 thousand kids in 11.7 square miles.

The state 7A championship is being played by two schools 2.2 miles apart from each other. And there are other schools in Woodstock in lower classifications.

The population of high school kids in GA is bigger than people think.

CaCO3Girl posted:

There is a town in GA called woodstock. It is 11.7 square miles big. Within that town there are two 7A high schools, one 6A high school.  That's over 6 thousand kids in 11.7 square miles.

The state 7A championship is being played by two schools 2.2 miles apart from each other. And there are other schools in Woodstock in lower classifications.

The population of high school kids in GA is bigger than people think.

A lot depends on the school district's desire for high school size.  In our area we have two schools of thought.  Some go mega big high schools -- more like small colleges.  You'll have 3000-5000 kids.  Then you'll have districts that want to keep HS enrollment closer to 2000 kids, so they will build multiple high schools in relatively close proximity to each other.  Then you get out into the country you get your rural schools with less than 1000 kids.  It really makes a difference in the quality of your athletics.  The bigger schools are more like travel teams -- deep with talent.  The small rural schools are closer to rec. -- a few good players surrounded by a lot of errors. 

CaCO3Girl posted:

There is a town in GA called woodstock. It is 11.7 square miles big. Within that town there are two 7A high schools, one 6A high school.  That's over 6 thousand kids in 11.7 square miles.

The state 7A championship is being played by two schools 2.2 miles apart from each other. And there are other schools in Woodstock in lower classifications.

The population of high school kids in GA is bigger than people think.

That is still a lot of State Championships - kinda watered down.  Doesn't mean much to say you are one of 7 (or 10 depending on how you count it) State Champions.  

I think 4 is a lot in Illinois.  I wish they had a final tournament amongst the 4 winners.  Find one true champion.

In illinois we have 89 schools with enrollment of over 2000.  We have an area just north of Chicago(10 sq miles if that much) with with 7,000 students in two public schools.  You can also throw into that area a Catholic school with 2100 students plus a few other private high schools with another 1000 or so kids.

HRCJR posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

There is a town in GA called woodstock. It is 11.7 square miles big. Within that town there are two 7A high schools, one 6A high school.  That's over 6 thousand kids in 11.7 square miles.

The state 7A championship is being played by two schools 2.2 miles apart from each other. And there are other schools in Woodstock in lower classifications.

The population of high school kids in GA is bigger than people think.

That is still a lot of State Championships - kinda watered down.  Doesn't mean much to say you are one of 7 (or 10 depending on how you count it) State Champions.  

I think 4 is a lot in Illinois.  I wish they had a final tournament amongst the 4 winners.  Find one true champion.

In illinois we have 89 schools with enrollment of over 2000.  We have an area just north of Chicago(10 sq miles if that much) with with 7,000 students in two public schools.  You can also throw into that area a Catholic school with 2100 students plus a few other private high schools with another 1000 or so kids.

Arkansas has seven classifications with a much, much smaller population.

HRCJR posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

There is a town in GA called woodstock. It is 11.7 square miles big. Within that town there are two 7A high schools, one 6A high school.  That's over 6 thousand kids in 11.7 square miles.

The state 7A championship is being played by two schools 2.2 miles apart from each other. And there are other schools in Woodstock in lower classifications.

The population of high school kids in GA is bigger than people think.

That is still a lot of State Championships - kinda watered down.  Doesn't mean much to say you are one of 7 (or 10 depending on how you count it) State Champions.  

I think 4 is a lot in Illinois.  I wish they had a final tournament amongst the 4 winners.  Find one true champion.

In illinois we have 89 schools with enrollment of over 2000.  We have an area just north of Chicago(10 sq miles if that much) with with 7,000 students in two public schools.  You can also throw into that area a Catholic school with 2100 students plus a few other private high schools with another 1000 or so kids.

The five HS in my county, all of which are in the same 7A classification as the two in the finals here in GA, have a combined population of just over 13,000, and subdivisions here are popping up like weeds (less than half the county is really developed at this point).

Maybe the HS age population in metro Chicago is more evenly spread out, but at least in the north Atlanta burbs the population is definitely heavily clustered with school age kids in a lot of places.  7A was just recently created, partially in an effort to avoid huge mismatches between schools of different sizes.  Haven't tried googling up any of the lower classifications, but one of my son's old teammates played at a HS with about 1/3 as many total students as were in my son's graduating class, and I think that's a fair bit more common once you get out of the Atlanta Metro.

I don't think it matters how population is clustered - 7 or 10 classifications is ridiculous. For Georgia, Arkansas, Illinois or anywhere else. At least Illinois has kept it to four.  Still too many but not ludicrous. 

HRCJR posted:

Nuke83 posted:

jacjacatk posted:

HRCJR posted:

hshuler posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Nuke - Great point but what I don't understand is not having a third Atlanta area option, like the Gwinnett Braves or Kennesaw State stadiums, for example. 

In the 7A classification, you have two Gwinnett and two teams from Woodstock. The winners will have to travel to Savannah or Rome, which takes away a lot of the students from attending the championship game. Now, it will probably be mostly parents and an empty stadium. When we hosted Mill Creek for the region championship, there were over 500 people in attendance. 

How many levels of State baseball championships are there in Georgia?  More than 7 or is that the biggest?

7A is the biggest (and new this year IIRC).  There are 8 total (there's a public and a private 1A).

And, there is another governing body outside of GHSA (GISA) that has schools which play baseball.  GISA has two classifications, AA and AAA and crown a champion in each.

So combined with the 8 total classifications in GHSA, a total of 10 levels in Georgia.

That is a lot of High School Championships in Georgia.  Illinois has 3 million more people than Georgia but only 4 classes of Baseball Championships.  Publics & Privates together (though most privates play up at least 1 class than their enrollment).  Also need to win 7 one and done games.  Often only 1 or 2 days between games.  Need more than one pitcher.

7 one-and-done games? So there is a bracket of 128 teams? Does everybody make the playoffs? 

In GA class 7A there are 8 regions.  Each region sends the best four teams to the playoffs, so 32 teams in playoffs per Classification. You need best out of three to advance. First game is doubleheader, if a third is needed that's another day.  Usually about a week inbetween each series.

Which had the admittedly amusing result this year of 32 out of 56 teams making it in 7A, and two teams that went 7-8 in region play (3rd and 4th in the same region, even) playing for the championship.

Why they didn't just start with 16, or even 24, teams is beyond me.

2019Dad posted:

HRCJR posted:

Nuke83 posted:

jacjacatk posted:

HRCJR posted:

hshuler posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Nuke - Great point but what I don't understand is not having a third Atlanta area option, like the Gwinnett Braves or Kennesaw State stadiums, for example. 

In the 7A classification, you have two Gwinnett and two teams from Woodstock. The winners will have to travel to Savannah or Rome, which takes away a lot of the students from attending the championship game. Now, it will probably be mostly parents and an empty stadium. When we hosted Mill Creek for the region championship, there were over 500 people in attendance. 

How many levels of State baseball championships are there in Georgia?  More than 7 or is that the biggest?

7A is the biggest (and new this year IIRC).  There are 8 total (there's a public and a private 1A).

And, there is another governing body outside of GHSA (GISA) that has schools which play baseball.  GISA has two classifications, AA and AAA and crown a champion in each.

So combined with the 8 total classifications in GHSA, a total of 10 levels in Georgia.

That is a lot of High School Championships in Georgia.  Illinois has 3 million more people than Georgia but only 4 classes of Baseball Championships.  Publics & Privates together (though most privates play up at least 1 class than their enrollment).  Also need to win 7 one and done games.  Often only 1 or 2 days between games.  Need more than one pitcher.

7 one-and-done games? So there is a bracket of 128 teams? Does everybody make the playoffs? 

Everyone makes the playoffs and its a one and done tourney.

I could swear there was a time Illinois had best of three series and you had to qualify.  Baseball should never be single elim.  And no level should ever be under 100 schools. Preferably more.  It needs to mean something. 

jacjacatk posted:

Which had the admittedly amusing result this year of 32 out of 56 teams making it in 7A, and two teams that went 7-8 in region play (3rd and 4th in the same region, even) playing for the championship.

Why they didn't just start with 16, or even 24, teams is beyond me.

Ghsa rules say "playoffs" are $10 a ticket. More playoffs is more money.

The 7A depth is absurd in GA. Take Walton for example.  Slated to win it all, ranked 4th in the COUNTRY got knocked out during the sweet 16 by mill creek.  These final two are absurd...they were supposed to each be out several times along the way...this year has just been weird.  Underdogs rule!

FWP, I'm not a big fan of watered down product either.  I think, in some instances, maybe the number of classes can be reduced.  But, this is another one of those things that I think may be easier to categorize and generalize from a distance.  It's a bit tougher when you are close to it. 

Some examples...

Nevada has 119 HS baseball programs in the entire state (in fact, 18 states have 150 or fewer).  The programs there range from those such as Bishop Gorman to typical small schools and everywhere in between.  Bishop Gorman has athletic facilities and programs that put many colleges to shame.  The state needs to have at least a large, standard and small school category.  By your rules ("no level should ever be under 100 schools"), they should only have one level, two at the most.  This would leave most schools with no chance to ever compete beyond their league, even those rare years when they have their best stock of talent.

Keep in mind that there are almost 16,000 HS baseball programs.  Our state (Calif.) alone has about 1500.  Our Southern Section alone has about 600.  We have seven divisions.  Our school is fairly small, only about 750 students.  There were a couple of years recently that we had six or seven on our team who would go on to contribute to their college teams, including some D1 pitching.  Yet, we could never get past semi's in the FIFTH largest class.  On the flip side, there is a smaller school in our area who won their league going undefeated in the process.  If we were to play them, we would run-rule them nine times out of ten.  They deserve to play beyond their league. It just shows the need for multiple classifications.

I don't know, I've seen it work both ways.  Reaching state/section playoffs after winning league creates a great deal of deserved excitement for schools of all sizes.  Then, at times, a smaller school will have that great talent stock run through and it's a shame when they plow through their tiny school division when they could have competed a level or two up.  There are no perfect solutions. 

No doubt there are no perfect solutions.  And I agree with you small medium and large are needed even in a state with only 150 schools total.  But I just think small medium and large still works with 900 high schools!

FWP posted:

No doubt there are no perfect solutions.  And I agree with you small medium and large are needed even in a state with only 150 schools total.  But I just think small medium and large still works with 900 high schools!

3,700 high schools  in Texas.  There is not a problem here, so no thanks to your solution.

Winning state is an "Accomplishment" in any class.  If you don't think so, come on down and ask the kids.

Go44dad posted:

FWP posted:

No doubt there are no perfect solutions.  And I agree with you small medium and large are needed even in a state with only 150 schools total.  But I just think small medium and large still works with 900 high schools!

3,700 high schools  in Texas.  There is not a problem here, so no thanks to your solution.

Winning state is an "Accomplishment" in any class.  If you don't think so, come on down and ask the kids.

Agree 100%.

So, the big controversy around here concerning graduation was with track. Track was moved from a Thu/Fri/Sat schedule to a Sat/Sun which meant track athletes would miss graduation. We have a Saturday morning prep sports call-in show and there were tons of calls from pi$$ed off parents who didn't understand why they would schedule it during graduation. They were calling for the head of CHSSA to be fired (she's only been on the job for about a month). Our state track is at one site and includes all classifications at the same time. 

When I went to the CHSAA message board, though, the differences in posts were remarkable. There were some like the voices I heard, but there were just as many thanking CHSAA for not pushing it into the week and getting it in as soon as they did. What our people didn't understand was that there were a few hundred schools involved and most either had their graduation ceremonies on Friday or Saturday, so they had already been inconvenienced. 

Our baseball was pushed to Tue/Wed and avoided the graduation problem. However, 5A was pushed to Sun/Mon and 4A to Mon/Tue. Most complaints from baseball were that they didn't try to get the fields ready to play on Sat/Sun. Playing during the week certainly wasn't a choice CHSAA wanted to make. I'm sure there will be a lot of lost gate revenue.

roothog66 posted:

So, the big controversy around here concerning graduation was with track. Track was moved from a Thu/Fri/Sat schedule to a Sat/Sun which meant track athletes would miss graduation. We have a Saturday morning prep sports call-in show and there were tons of calls from pi$$ed off parents who didn't understand why they would schedule it during graduation. They were calling for the head of CHSSA to be fired (she's only been on the job for about a month). Our state track is at one site and includes all classifications at the same time. 

When I went to the CHSAA message board, though, the differences in posts were remarkable. There were some like the voices I heard, but there were just as many thanking CHSAA for not pushing it into the week and getting it in as soon as they did. What our people didn't understand was that there were a few hundred schools involved and most either had their graduation ceremonies on Friday or Saturday, so they had already been inconvenienced. 

Our baseball was pushed to Tue/Wed and avoided the graduation problem. However, 5A was pushed to Sun/Mon and 4A to Mon/Tue. Most complaints from baseball were that they didn't try to get the fields ready to play on Sat/Sun. Playing during the week certainly wasn't a choice CHSAA wanted to make. I'm sure there will be a lot of lost gate revenue.

How is a High School association going to schedule around the graduations of every high school in a state when setting the dates for playoffs and championships (especially baseball and softball with weather issues)?  My Senior son's school is scheduled to play there first playoff game on Wednesday. As of now , it looks like it will rain all day. Then the game gets pushed to Thursday at 4:00 pm.  Thursday is graduation at 7:00 pm.  Luckily, his school is hosting the game.  But it could have easily have been an away game.  Just the way it goes.  LaCrosse team, if they win their playoff game tonight, will play their second round game at 7:00 pm on Thursday at their opponents site, 40 miles from the graduation site.  Again, just they way it goes.  Nobody at his school is complaining.  All the parents knew this could happen when the season started.

Unless you somehow convince every school in the state to have their graduation the same day (or maybe 1 of a couple possible days) you're always going to have issues.  Here in Ohio we have over 700 schools that have spring sports.  With softball, track and baseball all going at the same time, and all 3 being dependent on weather, it would be impossible to schedule around every graduation....unless maybe every school would put it on the same Sunday.  I can assure you that if my son was playing in Regional tourney or the state final 4 he would have been fine with missing out on 3 hours sitting in warm gym listening to some boring speaker talk about stuff that didn't interest him anyway

2019Dad posted:

HRCJR posted:

Nuke83 posted:

jacjacatk posted:

HRCJR posted:

hshuler posted:

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Nuke - Great point but what I don't understand is not having a third Atlanta area option, like the Gwinnett Braves or Kennesaw State stadiums, for example. 

In the 7A classification, you have two Gwinnett and two teams from Woodstock. The winners will have to travel to Savannah or Rome, which takes away a lot of the students from attending the championship game. Now, it will probably be mostly parents and an empty stadium. When we hosted Mill Creek for the region championship, there were over 500 people in attendance. 

How many levels of State baseball championships are there in Georgia?  More than 7 or is that the biggest?

7A is the biggest (and new this year IIRC).  There are 8 total (there's a public and a private 1A).

And, there is another governing body outside of GHSA (GISA) that has schools which play baseball.  GISA has two classifications, AA and AAA and crown a champion in each.

So combined with the 8 total classifications in GHSA, a total of 10 levels in Georgia.

That is a lot of High School Championships in Georgia.  Illinois has 3 million more people than Georgia but only 4 classes of Baseball Championships.  Publics & Privates together (though most privates play up at least 1 class than their enrollment).  Also need to win 7 one and done games.  Often only 1 or 2 days between games.  Need more than one pitcher.

7 one-and-done games? So there is a bracket of 128 teams? Does everybody make the playoffs? 

Everybody makes the playoffs.  For each of the 4 classes the state is divided into 8 sections geographically (which can change year to year based on school classifications.  Each section has 20-22 teams. Each sectional is then seeded 1 to whatever.  Section winners advance to Super-Sectionals (quarterfinals).  Winners then advance to State semifinals and then finals.  Entire playoff process is over in 19 days.  Technically, if a very poor seed was to advance to the finals they would play 8 games.

Illinois does not have geographical regions for regular season play.  Schools join conferences based on size, locations, affiliation (public, private, religious) or many other reasons.  For example my son's school is in the Chicago Catholic League (CCL).  20 schools.  From 150 boys to a coed school of 2050 students.  About half coed and half all boys.  The league covers about 2,800 square miles (70 miles north to south, 40 miles east west).  

Members of a conference are often placed into 2 or 3 conferences so a Conference can have two teams play for a state championship.

Currently, 3 of the top 5 ranked teams in the state (by Prep Baseball Report) play in the CCL.  Over the last 4 years the league has 4 -  4A state champions and 2 second place finishes.

Son's team is still in the Texas (6a) playoffs...we could run into that next weekend (I hope we do), but I'm pretty sure all seniors would gladly miss graduation or prom or most any other activity to play in the Regional Finals (round 5)...I can't imagine opting to go to graduation or prom rather than play...the kid that opts for that should be scheduled for a cat scan or something.

In Texas the UIL mandates that teams can't be made to play during graduation.

How is that written. I mean, of course they can't be made" to play. However, I think that is easier with team sports or with a process like Texas uses. In Colorado, it's eight team double elim brackets at a single site. They do actually shift game times around to accommodate teams, but that, of course doesn't work for teams coming from a long way away. I would also think track can't operate under those restrictions.

ironhorse posted:

In Texas the UIL mandates that teams can't be made to play during graduation.

Son's team's opponent tweeted today that seniors will graduate on the field if there is a confict.

I just still can't understand why anyone would WANT to go to a graduation ceremony!!

Anyone else finding it odd that some of these kids will be playing after they technically graduate?

CaCO3Girl posted:

Anyone else finding it odd that some of these kids will be playing after they technically graduate?

Happening to my son right now.  Graduated last Wednesday.  We have our last regular season game tonight.  We had a game on Thursday after graduation and were supposed to have games Friday and Saturday, but they were rained out.

Playoffs start on Thursday for us.  

Our school district graduates early compared to most around us.  Most of them graduate over the next two weeks. 

BTW my kid was hoping we had a rain out the week before graduation as it would have pushed a make up game onto graduation day.  He really wanted to run from the baseball field to the football stadium for graduation and graduate in his baseball uni.

roothog66 posted:

How is that written. I mean, of course they can't be made" to play. However, I think that is easier with team sports or with a process like Texas uses. In Colorado, it's eight team double elim brackets at a single site. They do actually shift game times around to accommodate teams, but that, of course doesn't work for teams coming from a long way away. I would also think track can't operate under those restrictions.

Hard to read, but it says "A team cannot be forced to flip for a time that would prevent a school from attending graduation."

ironhorse posted:

roothog66 posted:

How is that written. I mean, of course they can't be made" to play. However, I think that is easier with team sports or with a process like Texas uses. In Colorado, it's eight team double elim brackets at a single site. They do actually shift game times around to accommodate teams, but that, of course doesn't work for teams coming from a long way away. I would also think track can't operate under those restrictions.

Hard to read, but it says "A team cannot be forced to flip for a time that would prevent a school from attending graduation."

Not sure what they intended. It appear to say that if a scheduled game conflicts with graduation, too bad, bu they can't be forced to flip the schedule if it then puts them into a conflict?

No. Coaches set up the schedule for the series. Flipping means flip a coin. 

So as an opposing coach I can't try to force you to play during your schools graduation. Meaning I can't make you flip a coin to see if we'll play in the date I picked or the date you picked.

State tournament is after graduations.

The only way a team in Texas will have to play during graduation is if it's what they want to do. 

ironhorse posted:

No. Coaches set up the schedule for the series. Flipping means flip a coin. 

So as an opposing coach I can't try to force you to play during your schools graduation. Meaning I can't make you flip a coin to see if we'll play in the date I picked or the date you picked.

State tournament is after graduations.

The only way a team in Texas will have to play during graduation is if it's what they want to do. 

 

OK. Got it. That's easy enough with the UIL format. Wouldn't work here, though.

joes87 posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Anyone else finding it odd that some of these kids will be playing after they technically graduate?

Happening to my son right now.  Graduated last Wednesday.  We have our last regular season game tonight.  We had a game on Thursday after graduation and were supposed to have games Friday and Saturday, but they were rained out.

Playoffs start on Thursday for us.  

Our school district graduates early compared to most around us.  Most of them graduate over the next two weeks. 

BTW my kid was hoping we had a rain out the week before graduation as it would have pushed a make up game onto graduation day.  He really wanted to run from the baseball field to the football stadium for graduation and graduate in his baseball uni.

He should have!

Son missed prom due to game 3 of playoff series being 4 hours away from home.  Girlfriend he had been dating told him they were done if he didn't come back............he's still playing ball, she's chasing other cleats.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Anyone else finding it odd that some of these kids will be playing after they technically graduate?

I believe it's Iowa that is just now starting their high school baseball season and it goes into July. I've yet to figure out how they get their seniors to stick around for their last season. 

This thread certainly took on a life...

The girl's from the original post ended up losing the semi final on Friday night, so they didn't have any issues making prom on Saturday.

I spoke to a couple of them at a "pre prom" photo taking gathering and asked what they would have done.  The girls said they were all going to play.  The players had a self imposed prom discussion ban, so they wouldn't let it get to be a distraction.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Anyone else finding it odd that some of these kids will be playing after they technically graduate?

My son hopes to play 6 games after he graduates on Thursday.  If he plays six that means he is in the state championship game.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Anyone else finding it odd that some of these kids will be playing after they technically graduate?

Just the way it is for baseball.  Same with College.  All the conference tournaments begin this week.  Most teams have several fresh college graduates on the team.  If they get to Omaha, some will still be playing more than a month from now.

I find it more odd that Iowa just started their high school season.

I didn't read though all the posts so i don't know if anyone  brought this up but unless all your sons are going to the prom stag then where is their obligation to their prom date?  

njbb posted:

I didn't read though all the posts so i don't know if anyone  brought this up but unless all your sons are going to the prom stag then where is their obligation to their prom date?  

 

Um, I think they are going with the mentality of Bro's before H....oh wait family site :-)

njbb posted:

I didn't read though all the posts so i don't know if anyone  brought this up but unless all your sons are going to the prom stag then where is their obligation to their prom date?  

 

My sons date is a runner. She would have dumped him like a hot rock for a big meet and he would have been fine with it 

Think I saw a poster say their school was going to have a small graduation ceremony on the field.  I guess it would be similar to a senior night kind of event.

I actually think that would be kind of cool....    Get your diploma and then play a meaningful ball game.  Just me.  Sure there are others out there saying its a stupid idea.    But I would vote for that one!

njbb posted:

I didn't read though all the posts so i don't know if anyone  brought this up but unless all your sons are going to the prom stag then where is their obligation to their prom date?  

 

If we were speaking specifically about the girl my son went to prom with - she would have been sitting in the stands cheering.

Generally speaking though, to some degree the situation would be disappointing to all parties.

Depending on your life and opinions, a baseball game may seem like a dumb reason to miss prom or graduation.  For those who play, it seems like a good reason.  It's just a matter of perspective.  In life we can ask people to understand and accept our perspective - but we can't make them have our perspective.

Kevin A posted:

Think I saw a poster say their school was going to have a small graduation ceremony on the field.  I guess it would be similar to a senior night kind of event.

I actually think that would be kind of cool....    Get your diploma and then play a meaningful ball game.  Just me.  Sure there are others out there saying its a stupid idea.    But I would vote for that one!

My sons opponent this week in 4th round of playoffs is having seniors graduate on the field.  Good for them.  Just hope it's not a distraction, for our guys at least.