So, You Want to Go Pro Out of High School?

Thank you for your insight Prepster. It is amazing to me the life we hope our young men will get the opportunity to endure...

It does remain a privilige denied many.

Fantastic post

Spot on Prepster...spot on.

Prepster,
Great stuff.

So, I promised myself and justbb I was done with the HSBBW.
In fact, my days are so much different since then, to be honest. Indeed, I will keep my promise....
Prepster really hit a home run with this post and thread.
The only aspect I can offer is from the perspective of the parent of a DIII player who felt so lucky to see/hear his name in the 25th round and to play extremely well until injury ended things.
Honestly, to our son, while Prepster is so right about the "grind," our son's view was Milb was almost close to being on cloud 9 when contrasted with the 13-15 hour bus rides, 4 to a room hotels, fundraising, and living in a world where almost every player is on that field because they love baseball, without any incentive for the sacrifice..
Bottom line, Prepster is so right. Most all players cannot succeed in Milb and Milb won't let them succeed without a love of the game, the ability to grind, and the mental approach to see tomorrow means everything and, for most, the rear view mirror is likely meaningless.

Great post! Glad we enticed infielddad out of retirement

I can speak anecdotally on the basis of one player and some knowledge of that one player's teammates over the years.

My son is kind of unique imho in that he loves the "grind" and I think that gives him an edge over most of his competition. Many guys do not like it and I agree, the grind can weed you out because if you do not enjoy taking hundreds of ground balls a day, fighting constant injury by getting hit by balls and other collisions, taking hundreds of swings a day, eating poorly, batteling loneliness, etc... the life is not for you and you'll ultimately find something more enjoyable to do.

Not only do you have to be able to out-grind people, but eventually you have to out-talent them as well or you will never get an opportunity and even then you may not get one. High draft choices flow right to the top and are often promoted without the same type of achievments that a pure "grinder" may need to have. Pro ball is a contest among the best-of-the-best high school and college players in America and from across the world. There is about 5,000 of them. Only the very best of that 5,000 will ever get a chance to get one out of 750 big league jobs. A daunting task indeed but it starts with loving the grind and ultimately outplaying your competition.

PS - I do believe there is a place for winning in the minor leagues although it is not the highest priority as Prepster has so eloquently stated. As PG has stated many times, teams are looking for championship caliber players who help their teams win. Yes it's important to have good stats called in by your name by the manager each night but it is also important you do everything in your power to help your team win imho.

quote:

Originally posted by Prepster:
I could write pages on this; but, I promise I'll be brief.

Go ahead and write pages, we all enjoy reading this stuff from those who have been there. Thanks

Lest anyone think that ClevelandDad and I are at odds on this, we're absolutely not as it relates to our sons. As he and I have discussed, they approach the game from a very similar place.

Like his and infielddad's sons, mine reveled in the "grind," understood and was prepared to endure the grueling lifestyle after waiting and working so many years to experience it, and he also cared more about each night's outcome more than most (even to the extent that, on one occasion, he slammed a starter back against the clubhouse wall for being so completely and utterly detached from the rest of their team's experience). Until suffering a severe SLAP tear that ultimately ended his career, he could not have been in a better place at that point in his baseball career.

However, our sons also played college baseball. They had the several extra years to work, mature, live away from home, and find out what it's like to compete with one's talented teammates for innings; all in a more cohesive team existence. They also got a whopping head start on the balance of the education that will position them to move more smoothly into the next phase of their careers after their playing days.

Admittedly, my original post is intended to speak plainly and generally about some of the realities of minor league day-to-day existence; and to emphasize the stark difference it represents from what high school players have experienced until the day following the signing of their professional contract. I would contend that for the vast majority, the lifestyles are as different as night and day; different enough that a great deal of consideration needs to be given to the magnitude of the step.

Many thanks to each of you for your kind words. Like you, I'm just trying to give back after taking so much on the front end of this saga.

Good points about college baseball Prepster. Indeed, you and I are on the same page.

I'll be honest, I am pretty sure my son would have gone pro out of high school if he would have been drafted and he would have had my blessings. All he ever wanted to do was be a ball player and now he has expanded that to include a career in baseball. If his playing career should end, he'll continue his career in baseball as Prepster and infielddad's sons have. I am happy that my son is happy and that is all that matters. How many people can truly say they love what they do? He doesn't make a lot of money but he feels like he is a "rich" young man.

This is a good topic as it comes at a good time as the draft is approaching.

I agreed with Prepster because of the title. Most of us here have had our sons drafted out of college. The experience is much different for a HS player entering pro ball than for someone who has been on his own for a few years, matured, and understands what needs to be done on the field in season and in the off season to be prepared to get a roster spot come April and able to take care of business on his own. Just wait until your first spring training. IMO, it's a much slower process for pitchers out of HS. If to do over again, from what son has experienced, I would still encourage school first, but keep in mind son has been on the DL a significant number of times.
My son loves the game, what he does for a living (most of the time), but personally he has no plans to be a career minor leaguer. He will go as long as he can until he can't anymore.
For those that don't know an FYI, regardless of how you got into the organization (drafted or FA), spring training is a try out year after year after year, there are no guarantees. And keep in mind that year after year there are many able to replace you, you have new guys and vets fighting for spots, by vets I mean guys in their 30's.

Another point, most of our sons have attended winning programs, so they all have a sense of how important that is. However, reality is that the daily report is most important for most, especially those that really don't have the appreciation for how hard it is to win championships, collectively, as a team. Some organizations strongly instill this concept early in the low minors, others do not.

Prepster brings up very good points that need to be considered for young players. There is nothing that prepares you for the day you show up after you have signed, nothing.

Infielddad it's great to see you and hope that you drop by more often, you have been missed.

No question about it, the minor leagues are tough. Those that have been to college first have a big advantage in many ways.

However, if the contract is good enough it's a lot easier to deal with minor league baseball. And if we think it's so bad on young high school players, think about how hard it is for Latin kids.

The odds of making it to the top are long, but definitely far from impossible. Somebody has to play in the Major Leagues. Many have signed out of high school and made it big. As far as getting easy... I'm not sure that ever happens.

One other thing... If minor league baseball was so difficult to deal with, MLB clubs wouldn't have to release players so much. Most of them would be quitting and moving on. Very few players want to give it up quickly. Most are very happy to keep the dream alive and play baseball in front of lots of fans nearly every night. That's nothing to complain about, it is exactly what most young players want more than anything, yet only a small group gets that opportunity.

My suggestion is to those who don't love it... Don't do it! Coming out of college or high school won't matter. It will be too difficult, you probably won't like it.

I do think this is a great topic. It's good that people understand what pro baseball is like. The older I get, the more appealling going to college first seems to be. Going pro for a little bit of money doesn't make much sense. Especially when so many players develop so much (in many ways) during their college years. The college kids are more prepared for whatever happens.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
One other thing... If minor league baseball was so difficult to deal with, MLB clubs wouldn't have to release players so much. Most of them would be quitting and moving on. Very few players want to give it up quickly. Most are very happy to keep the dream alive and play baseball in front of lots of fans nearly every night. That's nothing to complain about, it is exactly what most young players want more than anything, yet only a small group gets that opportunity.

Very good point. On one hand it is a grind, on the other hand there is some glamor and allure to playing in the minors even though everyone has a higher goal than that.

Some of the nicest ballparks in America and places to visit are in the minor leagues. Minor league games are lots of fun for the fans and players alike. It's a grind but it also is lots of fun!

Excellent posts in this thread. I hesitated posting since my frame of reference is not the same. Son's former teammates will concur to the mibl "grind", though. One guy (now in MLB) got to his Saly league team and found a dozen guys sleeping and basically living in the locker room. Another had a petroleum engineering degree in his back pocket, got to AA and simply lost interest, went home after three seasons and is fine with his decision. It is tough and only the strong survive, as it should be.

BTW Jason Varitek signed as a college senior with a degree. There is a reason MLB has to draft 1,500 a year.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
One other thing... If minor league baseball was so difficult to deal with, MLB clubs wouldn't have to release players so much. Most of them would be quitting and moving on. Very few players want to give it up quickly. Most are very happy to keep the dream alive and play baseball in front of lots of fans nearly every night. That's nothing to complain about, it is exactly what most young players want more than anything, yet only a small group gets that opportunity.

Very good point. On one hand it is a grind, on the other hand there is some glamor and allure to playing in the minors even though everyone has a higher goal than that.

Some of the nicest ballparks in America and places to visit are in the minor leagues. Minor league games are lots of fun for the fans and players alike. It's a grind but it also is lots of fun!

Tell that to a late signee out of HS that is assigned to complex ball. Isn't that where many later drafted signees end up their first season? There is no one to play for at those games. How about the HS drafted player who has trouble his first spring training making a roster, where will he remain (fed and housed with no salary) until late May or June? At the spring training complex. No audience there.

It does get better as you move forward, food gets better along with pay (depending upon years of service you are not playing for peanuts anymore), hotels, transportation, stadiums and attendance. In AAA most everything is done for you, you arrive to the stadium after a short nap at your hotel and everything is in it's place. You actually begin to feel like you may have hit it big (not yet but almost) .

The Rays have an outstanding high A facility where they have the best attendance in the league, at Roger Dean where 2 teams play the attendance is light, I have been there on nights where there were less than 200 in the stands. If it's about entertaining and no one comes to see you, where's the fun?

It's important to find out where your son will be when he signs out of HS. This helps in the decision. But keep in mind Prepster's #1 point.

IMO, it's much easier for a college grad or one with most of his schooling under his belt to walk away than a HS player now 26,27. Speaking of never giving up, have you all heard that Mark McCormick (former first rounder who never made it to the show) is trying to make a comeback after 5 surgeries?

Don't get me wrong, there are lots and lots of perks in this job and the guys have lots and lots of fun and they find ways to make life enjoyable. This will be son's 6th season and he's still not there yet, you want to know what a real grind is, it's battling injury after injury, I doubt many would have stayed the course but he hangs in there.

College players are used to travel and long bus rides, it's tough on the HS player who has never been out of his state. And yes it is hard on the latins, but keep in mind that this is a much better environment than what they are used to and they have each other, and form great bonds among themselves.

The way I interpreted the idea of this topic was that if you have parents and players posting over disappointments about HS bb they need to know and understand the facts of life in milb. What will you do and who will you go to when your son calls you up to tell you that his underage roommates have been up all night drinking and he wants to sleep (or he could be one of the kids someone else is calling home about)?

I just think that for the HS player and his family, it is important to understand these things. Not that it won't work, just understand the system and how it operates. If you have successfully taught your son how to stand up for himself, get along with others and figure out his own issues while in HS, he will do fine.

And it's not always about the money, there are first rounders that do not sign, I would suspect the reasons being they need to grow up before they join the workforce?

It's also important to understand that it is a business, unless there is a huge investment in you and you excel, they don't place you on the ML field until they HAVE to.

And that's a whole other discussion for another day!

Saw a pitching line in ST from last week. 32 yo career minor leaguer gave up 3 hits and 2 ER in 2 IP to....wait for it..the Canadian Junior Team...high schoolers. The poor guy had a 7 ERA with over 100 IP in the PCL last year.

The joke in camp was give up a hit and you go straight to minor league camp.

I get the love of the game, but what's the point at that point?

A minor league free agent earns enough to live on and play baseball

Let me first qualify this post by saying if your player isn’t 100% dedicated to making baseball his life (outside of family) then maybe he should go to school first. I agree with Prepster (and the other observations) that milb is an incredible grind and is not for everyone, with that being said I think many would be surprised how quickly a driven high school player can adapt to “the life” when put in that situation.

I hope no one thinks of my post as bragging or disagreeing with some of the great advice already posted in this thread, that is certainly not my intent. I just thought the readers might get something out of hearing from one example of a high school player that bypassed going to school to sign a professional contract. (Sorry in advance for the long post…it’s rather difficult to share thoughts on such a complex subject in just a paragraph or two…)

Our son signed out of high school and as parents we were very concerned about his decision to pass on a great college opportunity (I could write a book on this subject) and how he would transition to living on his own. He was one of the fortunate few that signed for enough that he wasn’t going to have to try to only live off his meager milb salary. While the bonus certainly helped, he has proven to be pretty frugal with his money and still shares an apartment with 3 to 5 roommates every season (and all the drama that can go with roommates). He also relies on a good part of his food to come from the clubhouse spread, mostly because it’s part of his clubhouse dues and he really hates to spend money on going out to eat. In fact we were quite impressed with his new found cooking skills when he came home in the off season (he makes a mean shrimp scampi) . When it comes to the game itself, words can’t do justice to the amount of pressure but upon a player to prove his worth every inning, every game and every season… each year it’s all about getting a roster spot at the next level. I will say that as a high school player the organization can be a little more patient on the development side vs. those coming out of college that is perceived to be more “game ready”. Maybe he has been lucky in his transition into “the life” however so far things haven’t been too difficult for him to deal with, staying off the injury list…now that’s another matter.


Even if you take the money out of the equation I still believe many of the players drafted out of high school these days might be better prepared for life on the road than we may think. Just look at how much travel most of these players are doing over their high school summer/fall seasons. If your son is playing at a level to be considered a draft prospect then there is a good chance that he has logged many miles in a car/bus/plane and has spent many nights on the road during his sophomore and junior summer seasons (Impact Games, PG Nationals, Marietta, Jupiter, AC, East Coast Pro, Aflac, etc...). I know that my son had to make a few of those trips without Mom or Dad to take care of him. Sure there was a coach or other parent that was taking on the responsibility to watch out for him however most of the time he was rooming with another player. By the time he was out of high school he thought nothing of leaving home and taking care of himself. Was it's scary for us as parents…you bet, however I do believe that fending for himself was the least of his worries and he was ready to go when the time came. Is milb a tough, cutthroat business…absolutely? Pro ball is certainly not something that everyone is ready for out of high school but for our player at least it wasn’t something that he was afraid of. I don’t think anyone is totally ready to go from mom’s home cooking and laundry service to doing it on his own overnight however in our experience we found that our son wasn’t thrown to the wolves immediately. His first experience was seeing "complex" ball and dorm living.

One of the things TPM mention for high school players coming into professional ball is spending a lot of their early time at a baseball complex. I agree this can be a tedious thing for the player however from a parent’s point of view we actually saw it as a bit of a blessing sending off our 18 year old man-child to his first job. We especially liked that he had an 11:00 curfew. While he probably wouldn’t admit it I think he also saw an upside to complex life as well. He signed at the deadline so it was too late to play however he did spend a month at the end of the season working out and observing the GCL and he then came back to the complex for Fall Instructional league. This gave him a chance to get his feet wet in a a controlled environment and it also gave him a good idea of what things would be like when he started his first season.

This is getting long so I’m going to close here however it is probably pretty obvious there are many things for you and your sons to consider when making such an important decision. Thankfully he/we had some very smart people advising us along the way so we pretty much went into pro ball with a good sense of what to expect. Many of those advisors were part of the HSBBW family (and this thread), I hope all of your sons have the good fortune to have these types of choices to make in the future. If I can pay it forward and help in any way…you know where to find me.

JD,
I like the part about the the food. I can relate.

Complex ball is necessary for some due to the team that drafted them and understand that high picks (because of skill) usually don't end up there or if so for a week or two. I just wanted parents to be aware that a drafted HS players first season may not be in one of those jam packed stadiums that you hear about.

As many can see there are opposing points of view as well as different situations.

If anyone has any questions don't be afraid to ask.

Great reads.Thanks for sharing your experiences.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I just wanted parents to be aware that a drafted HS players first season may not be in one of those jam packed stadiums that you hear about.

JD,Glad to hear from you again. Great post. Best of luck to Q.

This is the best thing I've ever read on this message board.

best PRO thread ever, bar none.

GUN had a mentor, drafted out of high school in the 6th round by the Dodgers, a LHP. Passed on a fullride scholly to a BIG X12 team. He and GUN would work out, have a lesson or two during his brief times at home.

Interestingly, the topic of conversation was rarely about MiLB, but when it was discussed, it centered more around "the grind" and less about the glory. There's nothing wrong with "grinding", but for most of us not close to a MiLB player, we are ignorant of the process.

Thanks for the insight. GED10DaD

In my experience - Smallest crowds in milb... Rookie ball, in AZ and FL.

I've been to Rookie ball games with a handful of people watching. This level is for development, not a lot of fanfare. While it might not be as exciting it's still baseball and the organizational people watching are very important. If a player doesn't love the game, it's not a good spot to be. Then again it has been the beginning level for thousands of Major league players.

Most players are in a short season or full season team the second year. Those assigned to short season teams spend early spring at extended spring training.

Minor League baseball at most places is very popular. Even low A teams like Dayton Ohio draw lots of fans. I think Dayton has sold out every game for several years. Others don't draw so well. Some places in the Florida State League (HIA)have trouble drawing good crowds.

Everyone wants to be in the Big Leagues, but most everyone has to spend a few years in the minor leagues.

College is a great choice. Surely it is the best choice for most players. However, I don't see minor league baseball, even for first year players, as some sort of h*ll hole. There are a million kids who would absolutely love to be there. It really bothers me when people complain about how bad minor league baseball is. It's very much part of the process if you are lucky enough to have the chance. Yes it can be difficult and it's good to know how things work. But for many, college is difficult. Worse yet how about the millions that go straight to work out of high school. It's all difficult!

Of course being a professional baseball player is a job. Sure the odds are against becoming stinkin rich and famous, just like in any other job. Personally I think being a professional baseball player is one of the greatest jobs on earth. Not bad for building the resume either.

IMO people need to understand that if the organization signing you doesn't offer anything worthwhile, they are indirectly telling you they don't believe you're going to make it. Doesn't mean you won't make it big, but lets face it... Why not go to college? Lots of undrafted players end up signing for big bonus out of college. Same for low draft picks. If after three or four years in college they still don't want you... You for sure did the right thing! And if they do want you, again you did the right thing.

That is how I feel about it. However, how I feel or how anyone else feels about it, really doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is how each individual sees it. I only suggest that they don't get caught up in the glamour thought process alone

Should you go pro, should you go to college? Nobody really knows for sure. Either way, any advice you get has a possibility of being the worst advice you ever received. Before all the strictly college first people jump on this, I can give many examples of that choice turning out bad. Lots of kids with no degree and no baseball. Yet I know for "most" college is the best way to go. It's just that what works best for most doesn't always pertain to everyone.

I think there are very good posts on this topic. Very good information starting right at the beginning. Truth is... Any decision can turn out great or it can turn out not so good.

Sorry for all the babbling, just had a little time on my hands.

I can't speak for anyone else, but when often asked about the draft out of HS, I can only relate to what my own player's experiences have been. It has been from a parent's perspective from a prospect in HS that was predicted to get drafted first 10 rounds, with a 90% scholarship to a top D1 program a chance to play in Omaha for a national championship and a promise to play in the cape league. My son's journey included those in his plans.

Everyone has different goals and how to reach them. And a back up plan should be considered if not met, and that should include not making it as a college player, or as a professional. JMO.

Being a pitcher, the decision was made by son to play under a coach that had no record of abusing pitchers as well as a winning one and a record of many drafted players out of college. So keep in mind that much of the decision that HS players make is based upon lots of personal factors.

For son, another one being that it was also about the money and he wasn't going to get enough to keep him away from going to play college ball.

Ryan Tatusko has a blog and I suggest that those who are faced with this very important decision read it, as this is based not upon a parent's perspective, or anyone else's, but the player who has to live through it and grind it out everyday. In his recent blog he makes a statement that is so true, about "having tools in HS that were once considered "very good" and are now just average or slightly above". Is your star player able to handle just being average? I think that is what destroys many in this game, those that aren't used to grinding it out, either learn to quickly or can't adjust. That is why many players are released.

Again, I brought myself into the discussion because of the original poster's comments about parents and players having issues with the struggle in HS to establish themselves (based upon another topic posted somewhere else). If that is difficult for many folks and players to figure out, imagine how difficult it must be at the pro level. The theme of this post, is not which decision (college or pro) is the best, but educating yourself about what it is all about and the expectations for each choice.

At 18, after much discussion and consideration, the decision to attend college was the best for son, but not necessarily would be for others.

TPM,

That was an excellent post. The more people know the better decision they can make. In you and your sons case you made some great decisions.

There are no good or bad decisions when it comes to this stuff, just good or bad results. If only we knew what those results were going to be.

I might be crazy, but I don't believe much in the odds based on what others have done. Some individuals think there odds are 100%. Anyone who thinks their odds are 5%, they definitely should go to college.

Here's what I think... If someone signs a pro contract, they should be congratulated. If someone decides to go to college, they should be congratulated.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

Here's what I think... If someone signs a pro contract, they should be congratulated. If someone decides to go to college, they should be congratulated.

And there is the golden nugget we should all take from this...

quote:

Originally posted by jerseydad:

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

Here's what I think... If someone signs a pro contract, they should be congratulated. If someone decides to go to college, they should be congratulated.

And there is the golden nugget we should all take from this...

Absolutely!
I have heard some people say what an honor it is to be drafted.

IMHO, going to play at the school of your choice and getting your education paid for by playing baseball (or by academic $$), going to class 16-18 hours a week is just as honorable.

Golden Thread?

FYI Between 3/20 and 3/26 277 players were released.

I'm sure at the start of spring training each of them had high hopes of this being their year.

There is also several threads on this site "college or pro"

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
FYI Between 3/20 and 3/26 277 players were released.

I'm sure at the start of spring training each of them had high hopes of this being their year.

Since they draft 1500 each year, I am guessing they need to lose about 1500 each year whether that be due to injury, retirement, or being cut.

The numbers are staggering, but it just goes to show just how much of a business Baseball really is.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
FYI Between 3/20 and 3/26 277 players were released.

I'm sure at the start of spring training each of them had high hopes of this being their year.

Since they draft 1500 each year, I am guessing they need to lose about 1500 each year whether that be due to injury, retirement, or being cut.

The good news is not everybody signs, and a few dozen spend time on MLB rosters....

.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
...I don't see minor league baseball, even for first year players, as some sort of h*ll hole. There are a million kids who would absolutely love to be there. It really bothers me when people complain about how bad minor league baseball is. It's very much part of the process if you are lucky enough to have the chance. Yes it can be difficult and it's good to know how things work. But for many, college is difficult. Worse yet how about the millions that go straight to work out of high school. It's all difficult!"

Of course being a professional baseball player is a job. Sure the odds are against becoming stinkin rich and famous, just like in any other job. Personally I think being a professional baseball player is one of the greatest jobs on earth. Not bad for building the resume either.

Yep.

I don't think its the grind, living conditions or the money that is hard on young players. I think its the isolation from family and friends.
Things are better now with cell phones and lap tops etc. But its a long season maybe the first time away from home, missing birthdays, holidays,weddings graduations, births. Playing a game when some one you love got bad news or is very sick can make them wonder if its- worth it
I was told a lot of player related to this song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...jos0&feature=related

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
I don't think its the grind, living conditions or the money that is hard on young players. I think its the isolation from family and friends.
Things are better now with cell phones and lap tops etc. But its a long season maybe the first time away from home, missing birthdays, holidays,weddings graduations, births. Playing a game when some one you love got bad news or is very sick can make them wonder if its- worth it
I was told a lot of player related to this song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...jos0&feature=related

I know an MLB player who rose steadily in the system since the 2007 draft. He spent just three years in minor leagues and feels very blessed at this point in his life. He said he questioned his decision a few times early on and remembers riding a Pioneer rookie league bus somewhere in Wyoming, asking himself at 3AM "What have I done?"

Yep, my son played in that league. I bet lots of players felt that way

As he got older and married. He loves the life styleand travel