So your kid just turned down 1st round money

One thing life has taught me - in any endeavor - whether it be business - sports - or anything else.

The ones that proclaim to have all the right answers for everyone - usually have none of the right answers for anyone.

LOL

Alot of cyber sound and fury - signifying - NOTHING.

VANCE

As I said earlier--you have your way of doing things and I have mine--I happen to like may way better than yours and also said I didn't wwant to get into a "pissing contest" because it proves nothing

Incidently you might try reading what I post not what you want it to say

I said "I am not sure" when talking about your relationship with players-- I never said I had a better one than you but you felt you needed to make that jab

You are just like Blue Dog--you cannot answer a question straight or without downing anyone

Have A nice day

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You are just like Blue Dog--you cannot answer a question straight or without downing anyone

TR HIT, you and TPM, TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE!

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I said "I am not sure"

TR HIT, Thats the 1st time you have said something Right!

EH, I live in East Cobb...home of some of the richest people in the state of GA. And there are plenty of good ball players here too. For a while i believe Bobby Cox lived around here. My mom saw him one day at the Wal-mart by us too. And just the other day i was at a braves game, in amazing seats by the way, and was sitting in front of the son of the guy that invented quik-crete.

Dad04 just my input is that i didnt see the person but he may have declined in the fact that he wanted and education.. Not sure. All i know is that my high school career counselor laughs at kids when they say they wanna go to college to play baseball. But im hoping to defy her and shove it in her face in 3 years!

Never leave money on the table. If you would look back at HS kids who have foregone the draft, the majority are worse off after their 3 years of improving their draft status playing college ball.

MLB gives full rides, and if you are not Randy Johnsons clone, take the money!

At least with respect to the very top prospects, this is not true. Check out Baseball America's article on this subject, where they track several who turned down the money out of HS. There are a few who did worse, but most improved their stock.

BA did not track middle or late rounders. But few of them make the majors, so an education might be more important to them than a $50,000 signing bonus and a $12,000 annual salary.

The one thing that is often left out of these discussions, however, is Rule 5. Those who sign out of HS are 3-4 years closer to being eligible for the Rule 5 draft, making them less likely to be buried in an organization if they truly have talent.

This is another case that has no correct answer. It is all individual choice. Any and all decisions could turn out right or wrong. No crystal ball!

For those who say it’s stupid to turn down the money… There are examples like Andrew Miller and John Mayberry Jr.

Was Mayberry stupid for turning down first round money out of high school? He will now end up with a degree from Stanford and he received even more money after coming out of college. For him and many others!... Not signing turned out to be the right decision! Miller will end up with a degree from UNC and received a lot more money to sign out of college and he has already appeared in the Big Leagues. For him… Not signing was a GREAT decision! Yes, there are cases that go the other way, too!

Lastings Milledge, David Wright, Ryan Sweeney, Chad Billingsley, Jeremy Bonderman, Delmon Young, Carl Crawford, Scott Kazmir, and many others made the right decision by signing out of high school. Yes, there are many cases where players would have been better off going to college, too.

MidloDad, brings up one important advantage in signing out of high school, in addition to money, for the most talented. Signing out of high school not only makes you closer to Rule 5 or the 40 man roster, it makes all the important anniversary dates come quicker. However, that by it self, should not be the main reason for signing.

There are several reasons for signing or not signing out of high school. Money is only one reason and unfortunately it has become the major focus. To me, the major reason for signing should be because the player has a strong desire to make baseball his career. Everything else is a distant second place! When this is the case, it’s hard to say no to signing a professional baseball contract.

IMO – The money should not be the major reason for signing, but it is in many cases. There are more important things than money and more important things than baseball or college educations. There are lots of very sad examples of that!

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There are several reasons for signing or not signing out of high school. Money is only one reason and unfortunately it has become the major focus. To me, the major reason for signing should be because the player has a strong desire to make baseball his career. Everything else is a distant second place! When this is the case, it’s hard to say no to signing a professional baseball contract.

I'm strictly looking at this from a Parent's point of view.
And one that has not a clue to what goes on in the mind's of
MLB club's, Scouting Director's, Associate Scout's.

Just because a player chooses School over Pro ball.
Does not mean he does not have just as much of a burning desire to play Pro ball.
Some player's are ready for the grind of the Minor league's out of HS.
Some player's would do better with a few year's of Maturety.

JMHO EH

EH,

I agree completely. Sorry if things sounded differently.

But on that subject…

I know those who didn't have the maturity to handle college life or other things, on their own for the first time. Personally I think it takes more maturity and self control to handle college life than it does to play professional baseball.

Guess my thoughts weren’t clear enough… Didn’t mean that college players don’t have a burning desire. In fact, know many who surely do!

Regarding looking at things from a parents standpoint, I'm sure I have a backward view. I see choosing a sons path to something he truly loves (so long as it's legal and not overly dangerous) very similiar to choosing his future wife. Both can be discussed and hopefully he will listen to sound advice, but in the end he will win or you will lose.

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Guess my thoughts weren’t clear enough… Didn’t mean that college players don’t have a burning desire. In fact, know many who surely do!

PG, It wasn't your thought's.
It's just the vibe I recieved from some of the other poster's.

I just believe in doing thing's in step's.
LL, Select ball, HS, College, Pro's.

About the time a student reaches his sophmore year in HS,
It's his/her choice to what they desire after HS.

In Son's case, He just went with the flow, did what he needed to do and thing's worked out so far. With a long way to go.

The only thing a parent can really do is Support there effort.
And be Pro active with the opportunities that present themselves.
What do I mean by being pro Active.
I once last spring, Chased down a College Baseball Team Bus.
I mean chased all through out Santa Monica Blvd.
Just to get a chance to talk to the Recruiting Cordinator.
It was strictly Spontanous.
And that's just one of the many spontanous thing's I've done.
Never let a geniune opportunity pass you by.
Take advantage of everything that present's itself.

As far as the original post.
It would be hard to turn down 1st round money out of HS.
And I'm sure that said player's have all the support they need to make the right decision that's best for them. EH

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RAMROD, you can only play baseball for so long. You can go to school no matter how old you are! and, since when did employers start handing out 1.3 million bonuses to people with a 4 year college degree or a 5 yr one or a 10 yr one either for that matter???????? 1.3 million and a college scholarship for 4 years ALL paid for. So he turns down the money and he is on a 70 % scholarship to South Carolina and his parents have to come up with the other 30 % and spending money too!

Vance34, That's what I'm talking 'bout!! peace

For you "PRO SCOUTS" a question

Of all the kids who get the "College Money" as part of the deal how many use it? And isnt there a time frame on the use?

By the way my Grandfather and great fishing buddy was a used car salesman if you get the drift!!!!

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Originally posted by TRhit:
For you "PRO SCOUTS" a question

Of all the kids who get the "College Money" as part of the deal how many use it? And isnt there a time frame on the use?

By the way my Grandfather and great fishing buddy was a used car salesman if you get the drift!!!!

A nice Bureau scout told me MLB is considering the University of Phoenix, you know, off the matchbook cover.To reduce costs. There is a time frame. Don't wallow in your beer for a few years, but do it after you are out of college after being out of the game.

Shepster says take the money, and it is hard not to. Of the 600 or so high school players drafted in 2003, 55 of them were re-drafted in 2006 after their junior year of college. The rest either went pro, went to college, and are college seniors with one season of hope, or are outta the game.

Bully's Mom,
Most universitiies require a student with 30 hours or less to get their degree at that school. So that wouldn't work too well for the drafted player out of college.

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Shepster says take the money, and it is hard not to. Of the 600 or so high school players drafted in 2003, 55 of them were re-drafted in 2006 after their junior year

Of the 600 HS player's drafted, How many were 1st round draft pick's??
How many of the 600 would still be in Pro ball after 3 or 4 year's.

!st, 2nd, maybe 3rd. Rd. draft pick's Get a good Bonus.
At least enough to make it worth there while to follow a Dream.
Otherwise, after a 6 month minor league season, Your Looking for a Job in the off season, Are living off your Parent's.
Who are trying to help you chase your dream.

Being Drafted out of HS is a fantastic accomplishment.
Just know what your getting yourself into.
The Minor's are a grind and a sometimes lonely road.
Player's need to be Mentally tough, with a lot of Support.
Same goes for College, You still have to be Mentally tough.
And be supported by your Parent's.

Pro Baseball Become's a Job, And when you have a Job.
Your expected to be able to pay your way. If you catch my Drift.
I can get my Kid a Job, Is it what he want's to do for the rest of his life??


A player has to look at there situation, and decide.
When is my best chance of making it to the Major League.

But don't tell ME that if a player chooses College first.
That they don't have a BURNING desire to play PRO ball.

I would like to think that Money has nothing to do with the Desire to play Pro ball.
The Game itself would be enough for me.
EH

ECON 101

OPPORTUNITY COST

The benefit foregone in an effort to gain another benefit.

Assume those 55 redrafted kids represent 10%. Say 20% took the draft, with or without a bonus.

The rest are basically toast, mainly because 3 classes joined the mix in the interim, let alone all the JUCO's

It is all about math. By the way, about 550 college kids were drafted in 2006 that were never drafted in 2003.

My point lends neither me being a proponent, or opponent of signing out of high school. It only proves that if you can play consistently over the years, they will find you regardless of whether you are at Dallas Baptist or Florida State.

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The benefit foregone in an effort to gain another benefit.

Assume those 55 redrafted kids represent 10%. Say 20% took the draft, with or without a bonus.

The rest are basically toast, mainly because 3 classes joined the mix in the interim, let alone all the JUCO's

It is all about math. By the way, about 550 college kids were drafted in 2006 that were never drafted in 2003.

Player's hopes of making pro ball a career end in college and in the minors so players turn into toast in college and in the minors. However, I think I would rather be "toast" with a college degree that just "plain old uneducated toast". I agree with your reference to ECON 101 --- BUT what will always be debated is which is the greater benefit --- a college degree or a chance to play professional baseball? No one really knows for sure how they will react until the cards are on the table. My justification for urging my son to pass on the MLB offer when he was drafted out of high school was because I had convinced myself that if he's good enough to play professionally, he's good enough to play professionally with a college education. Maturity also factors in but I think the main issue was pointed out by PGStaff when he said it usually comes down to the signing bonus. I admit if the money were life changing I would have encouraged him to sign. What's life changing money? Well, that's another topic.....(as soon as I can find a ECON 101 book)
Fungo

Just watching the Monday night Football game.
And they were talking about Bill Parcell's and his Unbiased approuch to his Player's.
Meaning: He didn't care if they were 1st rd. are last rd. pick's.
Play the best.

I've alway's heard that in MLB that the more they have invested the more they find Oppurtuinities for you to play.

I like the Unbiased approuch better.

What puzzles me is the difference in opinions between pro ball players and scouts.

My husband and I have talked personally with two pro players (in minor leagues) from different organizations and had a friend who talked to a major leaguer. The advice all three gave were nearly identical. [If you don’t go in the early rounds and get BIG money -go to college.]

If going to college hurts your chances of making it why are so many pro ball players giving this same advice?

Edit: And to clarify “early rounds” is like 1st – 3rd.

Any statistics used are flawed. The reason is… Signability is so important these days.

There are many high school players who go undrafted because of signability concerns. MLB Scouting Departments might think they are 5-6 round types, but the player will not sign for 5-6 round money. Some go completely undrafted and end up getting drafted out of college. This screws up the stats completely! Matt Weiters went undrafted out of high school!

Others with early round talent, but who are tough signs, often go in the later rounds and end up signing for early round (even first round) type money. They go late because the clubs don’t want to waste an early pick on a questionable sign. Things can happen that allow the club to spend more money and Bingo, you have a 14th rounder getting first or second round money. This also throws off the statistics regarding money, round and signing.

And, some get drafted in the first round, but end up going to college anyway. Jeremy Sowers and John Mayberry Jr. come to mind in recent years. Both were drafted in the first round again out of college. They turned down the money out of high school, took the risk, and ended up winning! Both got more money the second time and both should get a degree from two of the best academic schools in the country! That is having your cake and eating it too! Yes, there are examples of those who it didn't work out as well for.

One thing for sure… There are NO bad decisions in this process… There are only bad results! Money seems to dictate the decisions most of the time, but not always. Some, as mentioned above will turn down first round money and others will sign for nothing. I don’t think either deserves to be chastised.

Greed, on the other hand, bothers me! When I see someone who does not want to attend college and turn away from 3 or 4 million dollars… because they think they’re worth a lot more than that… and then end up with practically nothing… It’s kind of sad!

IMO - The statistics can be confusing! We are talking about individuals. Individuals will end up 100% signing or 100% not signing. The stats that show percentages of making it to the Big Leagues mean nothing. To the individual, he will either 100% make it or he will 100% not make it. (I know... there are many more of the 100% who don't make it! ) Same for getting a degree, either 100% he will or 100% he won’t.

Very good post PG.

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...John Mayberry Jr. come(s) to mind in recent years. (He was) drafted in the first round again out of college. (He) turned down the money out of high school, took the risk, and ended up winning! (He) got more money the second time and (he) should get a degree from (one) of the best academic schools in the country!

Just a footnote. He DID get his degree...this past Spring and in just 4 years (actually a little less than 4 years).

PG,

That summarizes it very nicely. Well said!

had kid that played for me in high school
was called the night before the draft in 2001 and was asked if they drafted him in the 4th round but they would pay him 3rd round money(350,000-450,00) not sure what the figure was but it was in that range, would he sign.

He told them he was going to college. He already signed with texas a&m.


3 years later 1st round pick 1.45 million signing bonus.

It works both ways but it is ultimately the kid and his families decision and that is the only ones that matter in my opinion.