Is what Soriano did any different then say a player refusing to get in the batters box because is was moved out of his usual spot in the order!
quote:Sorianno may be the most productive second baseman in the history of the game.
Well, you've lost your credibility, Willie B......Soriano is the equivalant of Ray Durham or Rich Aurilia with a smidge more power...defensively, he isn't close to a Morgan or a Biggio...heck, I'll take Marcus Giles over Soriano any day of the week, just because he's had to work his butt off to overcome the size stigma.
It isn't like it's the first time Soriano has heard of shifting to OF...the Yankees talked about it...the Rangers talked about it...now he's refusing to play OF for a paltry $10 million/year?
The Nats need to give him the ultimatum...play OF or forego his contract. If he wants to walk away from 10 million smackeroonies, he can have a shot at playing 2B for the Tabasco Olmecos or the Cancun Langosteros in the Mexican League
whose playing 2nd for the Nats right now??
Jose Vidro
KellerDad,
Nothing to do with this debate but...
Didn't know that the Rangers wanted him to play SS. Truth is Soriano was originally a SS with the Yankees. Had it not been for the fact Derek Jeter had him blocked, Soriano might have been the Yankee's SS all these years. It was only because of Jeter that he was moved to 2B.
It is strange that he won't make the change, if that's really the case.
Nothing to do with this debate but...
Didn't know that the Rangers wanted him to play SS. Truth is Soriano was originally a SS with the Yankees. Had it not been for the fact Derek Jeter had him blocked, Soriano might have been the Yankee's SS all these years. It was only because of Jeter that he was moved to 2B.
It is strange that he won't make the change, if that's really the case.
Soriano fought the Yankees to remain at 2b (after his conversion from SS). Upon being traded to the Rangers he fought the Rangers to remain at 2B.
Soriano's thinking is that his numbers stack up best against other second baseman rather than outfielders when it comes to determing his personal worth in arbitration/free agency. This is NOT him pushing for what's best for the team or anything else.
Soriano is fresh off an arbitration where his entire "pitch" was about him as a 2B.
Wash mgm't and Soriano did not speak before the trade. Wash was certainly aware that Soriano wants to only play 2B. Soriano has made it clear to anyone/everyone that he only wants to play 2b.
Washington took a chance in trading that they could convince Soriano to change positions. Manager Frank Robinson is an old school, team first, no nonsense guy. Soriano is an all about me, me first kinda guy.
Cannot imagine that Soriano has anything but a standard MLB players contract that does NOT guarantee him his choice of position.
By any legal analysis, Soriano is bound under the current MLB player's agreement structure to play for Washington in the capacity they see fit. He is free to breach that contract, refuse to play, play for no other mlb team, NOT collect 10million dollars and go wee, wee, wee all the way home like the little piggie he is.
But, this is the direction of sports with the me, me, me attitude of far too many other little piggies.
This attitude has also changed the way the game is played. Player's don't want to bunt/sac since that isn't a big stat for arbitration. Player isn't gonna to dive for the ball or make the extra effort and risk injury in that contract year.
It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Soriano feels he makes the most $$$$$$$$ at 2b, now will see how the $ picture weighs out from the National's side.
Soriano's thinking is that his numbers stack up best against other second baseman rather than outfielders when it comes to determing his personal worth in arbitration/free agency. This is NOT him pushing for what's best for the team or anything else.
Soriano is fresh off an arbitration where his entire "pitch" was about him as a 2B.
Wash mgm't and Soriano did not speak before the trade. Wash was certainly aware that Soriano wants to only play 2B. Soriano has made it clear to anyone/everyone that he only wants to play 2b.
Washington took a chance in trading that they could convince Soriano to change positions. Manager Frank Robinson is an old school, team first, no nonsense guy. Soriano is an all about me, me first kinda guy.
Cannot imagine that Soriano has anything but a standard MLB players contract that does NOT guarantee him his choice of position.
By any legal analysis, Soriano is bound under the current MLB player's agreement structure to play for Washington in the capacity they see fit. He is free to breach that contract, refuse to play, play for no other mlb team, NOT collect 10million dollars and go wee, wee, wee all the way home like the little piggie he is.
But, this is the direction of sports with the me, me, me attitude of far too many other little piggies.
This attitude has also changed the way the game is played. Player's don't want to bunt/sac since that isn't a big stat for arbitration. Player isn't gonna to dive for the ball or make the extra effort and risk injury in that contract year.
It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Soriano feels he makes the most $$$$$$$$ at 2b, now will see how the $ picture weighs out from the National's side.
quote:
Sorianno may be the most productive second baseman in the history of the game.
Are you flippin serious?? I will take giles, kent and any # of others. Soriano needs to take his medicine, there is a reason why he has been traded twice.
Sorianno may be the most productive second baseman in the history of the game.
Are you flippin serious?? I will take giles, kent and any # of others. Soriano needs to take his medicine, there is a reason why he has been traded twice.
Hmmmm....Let's see...What is Soriano qualified to do besides playing baseball?
What a fool.
He'll be "marked" with an attitude problem for the rest of his career.
What a fool.
He'll be "marked" with an attitude problem for the rest of his career.
Baseball is a business.
Forget about all this loyalty to the team or city.
Soriano's numbers speak for themselves.
I have yet to find numbers better than his in the history of baseball at second base in the first five full years.
FRAUD occurs when all of the following elements exist:
1) an individual or an organization intentionally makes an untrue representation about an important fact or event;
a) Soriano was granted a contract of 10 million based on his past performance (second base).
b) The Nationals through Bowden signed a second baseman whom they had no intention of playing at second base.
c) The Nationals through Bowden witheld that fact.
d) The Nationals through Bowden made an untrue representation in the services they would request of Soriano. (We may want you to play the outfield.)
2) the untrue representation is believed by the victim (the person or organization to whom the representation has been made);
a) Soriano believed that he had the opportunity to win the starting position at second base
b) Soriano made it clear that he had no intention of playing the outfield
c) at no time did Soriano assume the duties of an outfielder or practice in the outfield.
3)the victim relies upon and acts upon the untrue representation;
a) Soriano met all the conditions of the contract as he understood it
1) He attended Spring Training.
2) He attended the World Baseball Classic as requested by the Commisioner of Baseball.
3) Soriano worked out with the infielders and second basemen at Spring Training.
4)the victim suffers loss of money and/or property as a result of relying upon and acting upon the untrue representation.
a) Soriano is about to lose time of service, monies and prestige due to the Nationals desire to demand that he play a position that he has no interest in playing.
This will be the beginning of players' and owners' stipulation of the exact services requested and offerred by each party in the agreement.
Forget about all this loyalty to the team or city.
Soriano's numbers speak for themselves.
I have yet to find numbers better than his in the history of baseball at second base in the first five full years.
FRAUD occurs when all of the following elements exist:
1) an individual or an organization intentionally makes an untrue representation about an important fact or event;
a) Soriano was granted a contract of 10 million based on his past performance (second base).
b) The Nationals through Bowden signed a second baseman whom they had no intention of playing at second base.
c) The Nationals through Bowden witheld that fact.
d) The Nationals through Bowden made an untrue representation in the services they would request of Soriano. (We may want you to play the outfield.)
2) the untrue representation is believed by the victim (the person or organization to whom the representation has been made);
a) Soriano believed that he had the opportunity to win the starting position at second base
b) Soriano made it clear that he had no intention of playing the outfield
c) at no time did Soriano assume the duties of an outfielder or practice in the outfield.
3)the victim relies upon and acts upon the untrue representation;
a) Soriano met all the conditions of the contract as he understood it
1) He attended Spring Training.
2) He attended the World Baseball Classic as requested by the Commisioner of Baseball.
3) Soriano worked out with the infielders and second basemen at Spring Training.
4)the victim suffers loss of money and/or property as a result of relying upon and acting upon the untrue representation.
a) Soriano is about to lose time of service, monies and prestige due to the Nationals desire to demand that he play a position that he has no interest in playing.
This will be the beginning of players' and owners' stipulation of the exact services requested and offerred by each party in the agreement.
WillieBoBo...thank you for the lesson in fraud...but you should also research labor law and the contractual agreements that result from same.....it's a whole different ballgame....
Very true.
Labor Law has become the biggest farce perpetrated on the employee in American history.
It is the largest conglomeration of selective reasoning I have come across.
Labor Law has become the biggest farce perpetrated on the employee in American history.
It is the largest conglomeration of selective reasoning I have come across.
WillieBobo,
Sure Soriano can hit but can he field! I recently heard a stat that stated he has the most errors for a second baseman in over 50 years. C'mon, if I had 10 mil just to play freakin' baseball, I get my tail in there anywhere. And, does he really think he's going to play over an excellent fielding second baseman? NO! However, here's my idea: Have Nick Johnson at first, Soriano at second, Vidro at third, and slide Zimmerman over to short now that Guzmans gone. What do you think?
Sure Soriano can hit but can he field! I recently heard a stat that stated he has the most errors for a second baseman in over 50 years. C'mon, if I had 10 mil just to play freakin' baseball, I get my tail in there anywhere. And, does he really think he's going to play over an excellent fielding second baseman? NO! However, here's my idea: Have Nick Johnson at first, Soriano at second, Vidro at third, and slide Zimmerman over to short now that Guzmans gone. What do you think?
I have no Pride.
For 10 Million, I'd Play HOME PLATE.
For 10 Million, I'd Play HOME PLATE.
Like Bill Clinton once said. "It is all about the anti-trust exemption, stupid." Or was that Marvin Miller. Or perhaps Faye Vincent. Bud Selig???? No, no, sorry now I remember; it was Oliver Wendell Holmes.
A lot of laws don't apply to MLB because Justice Holmes convinced a majority of the US Supreme Court a long time ago that baseball was so unique that anti trust laws did not apply to MLB. Mind you, they apply to football, basketball, hockey, so****err, and every other professional sport, except baseeball.
If I were Soriano's attorney that would be the sledgehammer that would be held over MLB who would then hold it over the Nationals who should, if they are smart, trade Soriano to someone who wants him to play secondbase. Of course, they can release him and someone can pick him up for peanuts. But if they choose none of the above and quit paying him because he won't play outfield [like TO in football] as has been suggested by some, it could get very interesting. MLB might just choke on its own arbitration decisions.
TW344
A lot of laws don't apply to MLB because Justice Holmes convinced a majority of the US Supreme Court a long time ago that baseball was so unique that anti trust laws did not apply to MLB. Mind you, they apply to football, basketball, hockey, so****err, and every other professional sport, except baseeball.
If I were Soriano's attorney that would be the sledgehammer that would be held over MLB who would then hold it over the Nationals who should, if they are smart, trade Soriano to someone who wants him to play secondbase. Of course, they can release him and someone can pick him up for peanuts. But if they choose none of the above and quit paying him because he won't play outfield [like TO in football] as has been suggested by some, it could get very interesting. MLB might just choke on its own arbitration decisions.
TW344
TW, I wonder if this is the Supreme Court that would cause MLB to worry about overturning the antitrust exemption. While I am concerned about what to expect, this is an area that seems pretty secure with this group of justices.
With that said, I fully agree that MLB/Nationals have to be concerned about the procedure they created that has ended up being their purgatory...arbitration. With all due respect to Willie, one of the labor laws governing MLB and its players is the arbitration process. When you "lose" in arbitration and still get a salary of $10,000,000, that is a pretty player friendly forum. Personally, when I see comparisons in this thread betwen Soriano and Mantle and other great players, it seems pretty offensive. Mantle injured his knee playing right field while DiMaggio finished his career in center. Soriano shouldn't be mentioned in the same thread/story/book,etc as Mantle. His actions are wrong. Unfortunately, I am not sure that the Nats have handled this too much better. And there we see the real difference between the NFL and MLB. If the Nats release him, they pay him $10,000,000. The Eagles knew they could discipline T.O and pay him nothing...and they did.
With that said, I fully agree that MLB/Nationals have to be concerned about the procedure they created that has ended up being their purgatory...arbitration. With all due respect to Willie, one of the labor laws governing MLB and its players is the arbitration process. When you "lose" in arbitration and still get a salary of $10,000,000, that is a pretty player friendly forum. Personally, when I see comparisons in this thread betwen Soriano and Mantle and other great players, it seems pretty offensive. Mantle injured his knee playing right field while DiMaggio finished his career in center. Soriano shouldn't be mentioned in the same thread/story/book,etc as Mantle. His actions are wrong. Unfortunately, I am not sure that the Nats have handled this too much better. And there we see the real difference between the NFL and MLB. If the Nats release him, they pay him $10,000,000. The Eagles knew they could discipline T.O and pay him nothing...and they did.
I have to say I am quite impressed with the Texas Rangers' 28 year-old General Manager, Jon Daniels. Not only did he rid the team of a sore spot which would have doomed the Rangers to the worst outfield in all of baseball but he actually hosed someone else instead of the Rangers getting the short end....again.
Maybe this is a turning point for Dallas-area pro teams?!!
Yep, no more too-gooders for this sports town!!!
Matter of fact, I am reading right here in the sports section that our beloved Cowboys just signed some guy named Terrell Owens? Anybody know anything about him....?
Maybe this is a turning point for Dallas-area pro teams?!!
Yep, no more too-gooders for this sports town!!!
Matter of fact, I am reading right here in the sports section that our beloved Cowboys just signed some guy named Terrell Owens? Anybody know anything about him....?
quote:Soriano's numbers speak for themselves.
I have yet to find numbers better than his in the history of baseball at second base in the first five full years.
Willie Bobo, looking at his stats, and projecting them, providing he's able to continue his career, Soriano projects to be the offensive equivalant of Jeff Kent...HR's, BA....that's the good news.
Ready for the bad news...defensively, he looks like the second coming of Edward Scissorhands...
Want more comparisons? Well, Pete Rose was kicked out for betting on baseball...Soriano is going to be kicked out because he's betting that someone in baseball is stupid enough to cave in to him...
Well, maybe that's not fair to Pete...after all, he did pretty much play every position except pitcher and catcher...and he'd have probably done that if his team needed him to...ah, that's the word Soriano hasn't grasped yet..."TEAM"...
If I was in the Nat's management, I would be looking to void his contract for refusal to play. If I was a Nats player, I'd be in a team meeting with Frank Robinson, telling him if Soriano wins his little battle and plays second, he'll be awfully lonely on the field by himself. This has the potential to be very ugly.
Of course, Bud Selig is nowhere to be found...he's probably hiding in the closet waiting on the latest steroid tell-all book to show up from Amazon.com.
If he really wants to play 2B, the Hyundai Unicorns may need one in the Korean League.
Unless his contract says he can choose where he plays, which I doubt, Soriano has no argument and no case. He had a big time lawyer I'm sure help write his contract. Some of these spoiled brats have written in special housing on roadtrips, private plane usge, seasons tickets (like they can't afford them), off season training fees, family travel, double lockers, etc., so don't tell me Soriano couldn't have asked for a "second base clause". Maybe he should've seen "The Santa Clause" as part of his contract preparation. He might not have gotten a "Second Base Clause", but if it isn't in there, end of discussion.
In truth we are all flapping our jaws in the wind--
None of us know what went on in arbitration--we only assume.
None of us know if the Nationals talked with Soriano before he came to the Nationals.
And what is this about his parents meeting with the Nationals? Are we in LL ? Doesn't Soriano have an agent?
None of us know whst was/is in his contract at Texas and now with the Nationals.
What is funny Frank Robinson is saying NADA, absolutely NADA. WHY?
An interesting footnote -- my wife has on video Soriano goofing with us when he was at Norwich, then a Yankee Double A farm club,when we had the grandkids to the pregame fun that is always there at Norwich. One has to wonder if he has changed that much or is what we read and hear in the media not the full story
I think that perhaps we will never know BUT I can tell you this as Met fan I would take him even up for Diaz, as they are talking about in NY, in a heartbeat and the deal fills key needs for both teams.
None of us know what went on in arbitration--we only assume.
None of us know if the Nationals talked with Soriano before he came to the Nationals.
And what is this about his parents meeting with the Nationals? Are we in LL ? Doesn't Soriano have an agent?
None of us know whst was/is in his contract at Texas and now with the Nationals.
What is funny Frank Robinson is saying NADA, absolutely NADA. WHY?
An interesting footnote -- my wife has on video Soriano goofing with us when he was at Norwich, then a Yankee Double A farm club,when we had the grandkids to the pregame fun that is always there at Norwich. One has to wonder if he has changed that much or is what we read and hear in the media not the full story
I think that perhaps we will never know BUT I can tell you this as Met fan I would take him even up for Diaz, as they are talking about in NY, in a heartbeat and the deal fills key needs for both teams.
Soriano has stolen more baes in five years than Kent has stolen in 14.
Soriano is just 29 and coming into his baseball prime.
Soriano has numbers comparable if not better than Hall of Fame second basemen after five full seasons.
As far as his errors, I have seen him range further than most second basemen and be awarded an error for making the great attempt. So many infielders have range for the routine play only.
Soriano has speed to steal bases, stretch doubles into triples, go from first to third or second to home on a base hit.
Three years out of his five full seasons, he has 30 home runs and thirty stolen bases. He drives in runs, hits for decent average, averages about 170 hits a year. Every one of his full seasons his OBP has been 300 or better.
There are only two of the Hall of Fame second basemen that I might choose over him, Rod Carew and Rogers Hornsby.
Soriano is just 29 and coming into his baseball prime.
Soriano has numbers comparable if not better than Hall of Fame second basemen after five full seasons.
As far as his errors, I have seen him range further than most second basemen and be awarded an error for making the great attempt. So many infielders have range for the routine play only.
Soriano has speed to steal bases, stretch doubles into triples, go from first to third or second to home on a base hit.
Three years out of his five full seasons, he has 30 home runs and thirty stolen bases. He drives in runs, hits for decent average, averages about 170 hits a year. Every one of his full seasons his OBP has been 300 or better.
There are only two of the Hall of Fame second basemen that I might choose over him, Rod Carew and Rogers Hornsby.
TRhit - I'm not sure, but I THINK the reference to Soriano's parents meeting with Frank Robinson was meant as a joke, but in this day and age, who knows? Surely you're not implying that "the Media" may not print the WHOLE truth? (That was certainly intended as a joke).
BTW - In the St Louis paper today is an article suggesting that Soriano COULD end up as the Cardinals 2nd baseman. Grudzelanek's (sp?) gone and none of the pretenders to the 2nd base throne are looking good. The STL/P-D article (again, this IS "the Media," so take it w/ a bag of salt) suggests that Jason Marquis and a hitting prospect (Gall or Duncan?) could get Soriano from the Nats, IF the Nats pick-up some of his salary. The Cards 2nd base pre-season favorite, Jr. Spivey, has hit .157 for spring...and its a WEAK .157, w/ LOTS of strikeouts. Wouldn't that be interesting?... If Soriano has become the cad some make him out to be, maybe close exposure to "Mr. Team" (David Eckstein) would sober him up.
By the way, the "lesson on fraud" was flawed. There are 8 elements, and the standard is "material" fact, which is not the same as an "important" fact.
BTW - In the St Louis paper today is an article suggesting that Soriano COULD end up as the Cardinals 2nd baseman. Grudzelanek's (sp?) gone and none of the pretenders to the 2nd base throne are looking good. The STL/P-D article (again, this IS "the Media," so take it w/ a bag of salt) suggests that Jason Marquis and a hitting prospect (Gall or Duncan?) could get Soriano from the Nats, IF the Nats pick-up some of his salary. The Cards 2nd base pre-season favorite, Jr. Spivey, has hit .157 for spring...and its a WEAK .157, w/ LOTS of strikeouts. Wouldn't that be interesting?... If Soriano has become the cad some make him out to be, maybe close exposure to "Mr. Team" (David Eckstein) would sober him up.
By the way, the "lesson on fraud" was flawed. There are 8 elements, and the standard is "material" fact, which is not the same as an "important" fact.
03/02/2006 10:33 PM ET
Q&A with Jim Bowden
Nats GM excited to see new-look team on the field
By Bill Ladson / MLB.com
MLB.com: One of your biggest deals this offseason was acquiring Soriano. Based on your scouting reports, what made you think he could play the outfield?
Bowden: In a perfect world, we would have made a trade for an everyday outfielder that could be an offensive force. We were not able to find that type of player in a trade, so the best player we found -- without giving up our top players -- was Soriano. We recognize the problem that he wants to play second base. But we want to win. So you have a choice: Make the deal or don't make the deal. But if you make the deal and he plays the outfield, your team is a lot better. If you don't make the trade, you are not going to get better. You going to have the same offensive team you had last year.
MLB.com: Are you surprised that it has become a big issue about Soriano playing the outfield?
Bowden: I think you always have to prepare for worst-case scenarios, and this scenario was something that we thought was possible. Certainly, we hoped once he got to Spring Training that he would be willing to try playing the outfield for us.
We knew this about Alfonso: He is a great person. He is a great teammate. He has a big heart. He wants to play every day and he wants to have success. Right or wrong, because of his tremendous makeup, we felt that he would, at the end of the day, at least consider what Chipper Jones, Alex Rodriguez and so many other have done. And that is move in order to help the team win baseball games.
MLB.com: Do you think the controversy will be over when the World Baseball Classic comes to an end?
Bowden: I think that this situation, one way or another, will be settled by Opening Day in New York City on April 3. That day. It might be 10 minutes before game time.
Q&A with Jim Bowden
Nats GM excited to see new-look team on the field
By Bill Ladson / MLB.com
MLB.com: One of your biggest deals this offseason was acquiring Soriano. Based on your scouting reports, what made you think he could play the outfield?
Bowden: In a perfect world, we would have made a trade for an everyday outfielder that could be an offensive force. We were not able to find that type of player in a trade, so the best player we found -- without giving up our top players -- was Soriano. We recognize the problem that he wants to play second base. But we want to win. So you have a choice: Make the deal or don't make the deal. But if you make the deal and he plays the outfield, your team is a lot better. If you don't make the trade, you are not going to get better. You going to have the same offensive team you had last year.
MLB.com: Are you surprised that it has become a big issue about Soriano playing the outfield?
Bowden: I think you always have to prepare for worst-case scenarios, and this scenario was something that we thought was possible. Certainly, we hoped once he got to Spring Training that he would be willing to try playing the outfield for us.
We knew this about Alfonso: He is a great person. He is a great teammate. He has a big heart. He wants to play every day and he wants to have success. Right or wrong, because of his tremendous makeup, we felt that he would, at the end of the day, at least consider what Chipper Jones, Alex Rodriguez and so many other have done. And that is move in order to help the team win baseball games.
MLB.com: Do you think the controversy will be over when the World Baseball Classic comes to an end?
Bowden: I think that this situation, one way or another, will be settled by Opening Day in New York City on April 3. That day. It might be 10 minutes before game time.
I have read in the media that while Bowden was at the winter meetings, he wanted to meet with Soriano prior to the trade and discuss moving to the OF. The Rangers refused. Red flag for the Nats.
Here is the link for the press conference of non-statements. Being clear about being unclear.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2006/02...ress_conference.html
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2006/02...ress_conference.html
WHAT A TRAVESTY!! It's hard to believe that this thread has evolved into whether his contract has a clause in it that says he will only play second base for $10,000,000.
The Old Timers must be rolling over in their graves! Those guys would have played any position the manager asked them and after the game, swept the stands, cleaned the bathrooms, dragged the field, washed the uniforms, and then asked "What else?"
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!! IT'S A GAME!!! All this "legal" mumbo-jumbo makes for great discussion but it doesn't(or shouldn't) detract from the real issue(IMO) which is how
selfish and self-centered pro athletes have become. My gosh, after Soriano's pitiful
performance for the Yankees in the World Series he should be thankful that he's still
around. Obviously, some GM's think he's worth the money and more power to him for getting
it but he needs a dose of reality. What else could he do and make 1/100th of what he's getting now?
BTW there are plenty more like him that think they are indispensible. I don't blame
Soriano for the attitudes of today's players but it's a sad situation when kids who played the game for fun using milk cartons for gloves on streets and rocky fields are
now too into themselves to play on beautifully manicured green grasses for the paltry
sum of $10,000,000 a year!
I know of one player(there may be others) that switched positions and became NL MVP. Played for the Atlanta Braves.
I'm over these babies.
The Old Timers must be rolling over in their graves! Those guys would have played any position the manager asked them and after the game, swept the stands, cleaned the bathrooms, dragged the field, washed the uniforms, and then asked "What else?"
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!! IT'S A GAME!!! All this "legal" mumbo-jumbo makes for great discussion but it doesn't(or shouldn't) detract from the real issue(IMO) which is how
selfish and self-centered pro athletes have become. My gosh, after Soriano's pitiful
performance for the Yankees in the World Series he should be thankful that he's still
around. Obviously, some GM's think he's worth the money and more power to him for getting
it but he needs a dose of reality. What else could he do and make 1/100th of what he's getting now?
BTW there are plenty more like him that think they are indispensible. I don't blame
Soriano for the attitudes of today's players but it's a sad situation when kids who played the game for fun using milk cartons for gloves on streets and rocky fields are
now too into themselves to play on beautifully manicured green grasses for the paltry
sum of $10,000,000 a year!
I know of one player(there may be others) that switched positions and became NL MVP. Played for the Atlanta Braves.
I'm over these babies.
BOBO
In my eyes with your statements you are losing credence with your posts-- only Carew and Hornsby above Soriano !!!!
You have to be kidding me !!!!!!
Let me ask you this and no offense intended--where you born in this country? --I only ask this because there is a common theme in your posts
In my eyes with your statements you are losing credence with your posts-- only Carew and Hornsby above Soriano !!!!
You have to be kidding me !!!!!!
Let me ask you this and no offense intended--where you born in this country? --I only ask this because there is a common theme in your posts
Soriano was acquired from the Rangers on Dec. 7 for outfielders Brad Wilkerson and Terrmel Sledge and right-hander Armando Galarraga. The trade didn't become official until Dec. 13, because Wilkerson was on a trip to the Bahamas.
Texas denied Washington permission to talk to Soriano about a switch from second base to left field until the players took their physicals and the trade was official.
"[The Nationals] didn't tell me about the switch until after the trade," Soriano said. "[The Rangers] didn't want them to talk, because they know what the problem is. The Nationals had to know how unhappy I would be."
Texas denied Washington permission to talk to Soriano about a switch from second base to left field until the players took their physicals and the trade was official.
"[The Nationals] didn't tell me about the switch until after the trade," Soriano said. "[The Rangers] didn't want them to talk, because they know what the problem is. The Nationals had to know how unhappy I would be."
BOBO
Do not ignore the question please
Do not ignore the question please
I'm surprised at how many people are taking managements side here. I don't understand the animosity towards Soriano. The minute a player gets good enough to call his own shots, people turn on him. I saw the same thing with Cal Ripken's streak. As soon as he had a slump people were calling him selfish for not taking himself out of the lineup. Management is made up of some of the coldest people out there. Businessmen who only care about the bottom line. When the NFL players complained about astroturf shortening their careers, one owner was quoted as saying "You'll play on concrete if we tell you to."
Professional baseball, like football, is a business, not a game. Nobody on this site knows what Soriano and Nationals management know so why the attack on the player.
Just because we use baseball to teach our kids about teamwork, self-sacrifice and discipline doesn't mean we should expect professional athletes to be concerned with the same things. They're millionaires, with agents and lawyers helping and advising them.
Nobody says a word when top actors or musicians make demands that are selfish. They are entertainers just like athletes and the truth is that 99% of them are exploited by management unless they are lucky enough to make it to the very top.
One more point, to all of the parents of talented kids on this site. Imagine the bitterness you would have towards management if your son was Eric Crouch. Here's a kid who broke tons of records at one of the biggest college programs out there and was told by the NFL he had no chance of being drafted unless he changed positions from QB to WR. What a crock! What a sham!! Seeing how many, many players who are screw ups get 2nd and 3rd chances with other teams, this was collusion by all 30 NFL teams to block one player from succeeding in the league. Why, because the only running QB's allowed into the league are black ones. It is the NFL's latest attempt to draw fans. They consider the pocket passer bad for business and want him replaced with the Vick type QB. Someone they can market as "The most exciting player in the game." That's why Vince Young will be drafted early in the 1st round even though he has a questionable arm and questionable intelligence for an NFL QB. That is why the NFL continues to advertise Vick as the NFL's most dangerous weapon after 5 years of mediocre play. Meanwhile, Eric Crouch, who is exactly the prototype QB(if black) the NFL is promoting, is told to switch to reciever because the NFL has no interest in having him be the poster boy for the new wave of NFL QB.
Eric Crouch lost millions, maybe tens of millions, because of the NFL's racist policies. He retired rather than switch positions. He is now playing in the CFL as a backup QB. Baseball also has its policies in place and the players who suffer the most are our sons.
Every year thousands of quality players graduate from their respective colleges. Yet Major League Baseball continues to sign, at rock bottom prices, foreign ballplayers instead of our sons. The Minor Leagues are 50% foreign players despite college players being almost all home grown.
It's no mystery that Bud Selig embraces foreign players. One look at last years All-Star game tells you all you need to know about the direction MLB is looking to go. Our kids are being pushed aside for cheap foreign labor. That is what you are supporting when you side with the owners.
Professional baseball, like football, is a business, not a game. Nobody on this site knows what Soriano and Nationals management know so why the attack on the player.
Just because we use baseball to teach our kids about teamwork, self-sacrifice and discipline doesn't mean we should expect professional athletes to be concerned with the same things. They're millionaires, with agents and lawyers helping and advising them.
Nobody says a word when top actors or musicians make demands that are selfish. They are entertainers just like athletes and the truth is that 99% of them are exploited by management unless they are lucky enough to make it to the very top.
One more point, to all of the parents of talented kids on this site. Imagine the bitterness you would have towards management if your son was Eric Crouch. Here's a kid who broke tons of records at one of the biggest college programs out there and was told by the NFL he had no chance of being drafted unless he changed positions from QB to WR. What a crock! What a sham!! Seeing how many, many players who are screw ups get 2nd and 3rd chances with other teams, this was collusion by all 30 NFL teams to block one player from succeeding in the league. Why, because the only running QB's allowed into the league are black ones. It is the NFL's latest attempt to draw fans. They consider the pocket passer bad for business and want him replaced with the Vick type QB. Someone they can market as "The most exciting player in the game." That's why Vince Young will be drafted early in the 1st round even though he has a questionable arm and questionable intelligence for an NFL QB. That is why the NFL continues to advertise Vick as the NFL's most dangerous weapon after 5 years of mediocre play. Meanwhile, Eric Crouch, who is exactly the prototype QB(if black) the NFL is promoting, is told to switch to reciever because the NFL has no interest in having him be the poster boy for the new wave of NFL QB.
Eric Crouch lost millions, maybe tens of millions, because of the NFL's racist policies. He retired rather than switch positions. He is now playing in the CFL as a backup QB. Baseball also has its policies in place and the players who suffer the most are our sons.
Every year thousands of quality players graduate from their respective colleges. Yet Major League Baseball continues to sign, at rock bottom prices, foreign ballplayers instead of our sons. The Minor Leagues are 50% foreign players despite college players being almost all home grown.
It's no mystery that Bud Selig embraces foreign players. One look at last years All-Star game tells you all you need to know about the direction MLB is looking to go. Our kids are being pushed aside for cheap foreign labor. That is what you are supporting when you side with the owners.
I agree, Todays players have no idea how lucky they are just to be able to do something you love and be way overpaid for it!
Yes, from an offensive stand point, they are the only two who have contributed as much as he has and should project to contribute in the future.
I saw Morgan, Javier, Sandberg, Richardson, Carew, Mazeroski, Hunt, Lanier, Hobbs and many other good second basemen. None were 30 -30 guys. They were usually light hitting defensive specialists.
In my opinion, Soriano has far more to offer a team.
I saw Morgan, Javier, Sandberg, Richardson, Carew, Mazeroski, Hunt, Lanier, Hobbs and many other good second basemen. None were 30 -30 guys. They were usually light hitting defensive specialists.
In my opinion, Soriano has far more to offer a team.
Dear old Dad says:
I was on the fence but now MUST favor the player ... hey wait a minute ...
the player is a FOREIGNER
you are exactly right!!quote:It's no mystery that Bud Selig embraces foreign players. One look at last years All-Star game tells you all you need to know about the direction MLB is looking to go. Our kids are being pushed aside for cheap foreign labor. That is what you are supporting when you side with the owners.
I was on the fence but now MUST favor the player ... hey wait a minute ...
the player is a FOREIGNER
What does racism have to do with this discussion???
Just about all of our families were foreigners in this nation at one time.
My great great grand parents came to this country for a better life.
Baseball has accepted players from other countries for decades.
My great great grand parents came to this country for a better life.
Baseball has accepted players from other countries for decades.
Dear Old Dad,
I think you need an education in sports management as well as a course in tolerance.
I think you need an education in sports management as well as a course in tolerance.
mr Hit,
check your dictionary, next go to the MLB draft rules.
international players fall into a different catagory than American & college players.
DoD has the makings of a valid point re MLB expoliting a cheap international (latin) market, though I'm not yet following how it ties in here, except that Soriano had a milk carton for a glove in his younger days ... I'll wait for more ...
check your dictionary, next go to the MLB draft rules.
international players fall into a different catagory than American & college players.
DoD has the makings of a valid point re MLB expoliting a cheap international (latin) market, though I'm not yet following how it ties in here, except that Soriano had a milk carton for a glove in his younger days ... I'll wait for more ...
Soriano is a fine power hitter who can steal bases, and that is about it. He is tied for the worst fielding pct by a second baseman in the last 50 years. Soriano is a pathetic 2nd baseman and the record proves it. His on base pect. of .320 is well below average. He is really a DH masquerading as a 2nd baseman. Many great players have been moved to other positions during their careers and it was to improve the team. They all got paid and so is Soriano to the tune of ten million. Soriano is also 30 years old, not 29 and history shows that the stolen base numbers will start going down, not up.
He has two seasons of 100 RBI's or more and if he drives in 100 or more 6 more times, he will then be tied with Jeff Kent, who is a below average fielder, but his fielding average is way ahead of Soriano's. His .280 career batting average is 9 points below Kent and his career .320 OBP is 32 points below Kent. As far as stretching hits into triples, he has 16 triples in 6 years!!!!! big deal.
If he does not want to play left field, he can then go home and sulk. They are doing him a favor by moving him to left field as he is a brutal 2nd baseman and does not belong there. If he could play 2nd base well, Texas would never have traded him in the first place.
He has two seasons of 100 RBI's or more and if he drives in 100 or more 6 more times, he will then be tied with Jeff Kent, who is a below average fielder, but his fielding average is way ahead of Soriano's. His .280 career batting average is 9 points below Kent and his career .320 OBP is 32 points below Kent. As far as stretching hits into triples, he has 16 triples in 6 years!!!!! big deal.
If he does not want to play left field, he can then go home and sulk. They are doing him a favor by moving him to left field as he is a brutal 2nd baseman and does not belong there. If he could play 2nd base well, Texas would never have traded him in the first place.
I love baseball and have no real interest in other professionsl sports; being that way, I have higher expectations for the behvior of the gentlemen who play our sport. There have been a few more ego-first examples this ST and that may well have heighten some of our ire toward the Soriano situation.
Apparently Soriano's offensive production has allowed him to be an exception to the Strength Up The Middle rule. This is what happens when you stray from The Book.
I don't quite understand his refusal to play OF. He's not terribly good at Second, so not being terribly good at a position shouldn't bother him.....
Apparently Soriano's offensive production has allowed him to be an exception to the Strength Up The Middle rule. This is what happens when you stray from The Book.
I don't quite understand his refusal to play OF. He's not terribly good at Second, so not being terribly good at a position shouldn't bother him.....
MLB news is reporting this morning that Soriano will play Left field as requested by the Nationals. 10 million "reasons" were given 
This is absurd.He gets paid 10 million and he cant just make the move to LF?He is a terrible 2nd baseman and if he were to move to LF he could focus more so on hitting
Then again look at it this way.It was a known thing that he didnt want to move to the OF,the nationals knew this when they traded for him.I also have to fault bowden here.He has been an All-star at 2b(for offense ofcourse)and is a vet so he feels that he shouldnt have to switch.
Then again you have guys like erstad who have been moved all around the field and won GG at each position.Thats what it should be like
I guess it goes to show you can drag a horse to water,but you cant make him drink it.
Both sides are at fault here
Then again look at it this way.It was a known thing that he didnt want to move to the OF,the nationals knew this when they traded for him.I also have to fault bowden here.He has been an All-star at 2b(for offense ofcourse)and is a vet so he feels that he shouldnt have to switch.
Then again you have guys like erstad who have been moved all around the field and won GG at each position.Thats what it should be like
I guess it goes to show you can drag a horse to water,but you cant make him drink it.
Both sides are at fault here