Stay where signed or transfered?

I hope you get some additional votes out of that survey...should be interesting.

Also, ask if the student, in his freshman year got a scholly at:

25%
above 25%
Above 33%
Above 40%
Above 60%

his freshman year.

Really a great question.... The boy's first fall and number of highly touted prospects have left the program or were asked to turn in their uniform. Sprinkle in a few academic inelegibiles, getting to meet this years crop of early signees who are looking to take your job. Then factor in a players perceived value, coaching changes, home sickness and anything else that compromises your misconception of "the right fit".

I'm beginning to think working towards being recruited, signing a NLI is a piece of cake compared to sticking with a program for a couple of years. Fit implies that you've tried it on for size, gave it a test drive around the block and kicked the tires. No such luxury in collge baseball. You don't know until you get there. For some it may well be the greatest experience of their life. For others, well lets just say it was a "bad fit".

My eldest went Juco, but obviously transferred to a four year school after that.

quote:

Originally posted by dswann:
I'm beginning to think working towards being recruited, signing a NLI is a piece of cake compared to sticking with a program for a couple of years. Fit implies that you've tried it on for size, gave it a test drive around the block and kicked the tires. No such luxury in collge baseball. You don't know until you get there. For some it may well be the greatest experience of their life. For others, well lets just say it was a "bad fit".

I think that many might agree with the above statement.

Good questions but keep in mind that you will always find transfers at every program, what might be important to one is where they transfered from. Keep in mind some programs lose players to the draft, and fill in with transfers, again this all depends on each particular program.

I think that a fair amount (more than a certain percentage) of transfers on a roster basically shows the lack of commitment towards true player development.

There are some programs that restock and some recharge.

Finding the right "fit" is a great goal, and for some, the college experience lives up to its potential. But sometimes, no matter how much research you do, things just don't work out.

Through PM's, I've been simply amazed at how many do NOT work out, for a variety of reasons. Some leave because of lack of playing time, some leave because they dislike the school or city, and some leave for other reasons (grades, girlfriends, coaching changes, etc.).

My own son left his school after 2 years for a variety of reasons. He loved his coaches and was actually getting decent playing time as a freshman and sophomore, but his school had only 2,000 on campus and there was NOTHING to do on the weekends. Combine that with a girlfriend who was 5 hours away and a love for the outdoors that could not be fulfilled with his rigorous baseball schedule, and it was time to move on.

Thankfully, there have been no regrets -- and that's what I hear from the parents of lots of other players who leave their programs. The thing for folks to remember is that it is not a disaster or tragedy if things don't work out as planned; it's simply part of the learning process as players learn more about themselves and decide what is most important to them. It's all good.....

You also have to consider the longevity of the coaching staff. A new coach may be "cleaning house" off a losing coach that had weak recruiting. Historically a school might have a low transfer rate, but over the next couple of years it will be high until the new coach has a team that he can trust (on and off the field). Or if the coach has been there a few years now, the rate of transfers could drop as he has been able to build the team he wants.

quote:

Originally posted by dswann:
I'm beginning to think working towards being recruited, signing a NLI is a piece of cake compared to sticking with a program for a couple of years. Fit implies that you've tried it on for size, gave it a test drive around the block and kicked the tires. No such luxury in collge baseball. You don't know until you get there. For some it may well be the greatest experience of their life. For others, well lets just say it was a "bad fit".

That is a good point. Signing the NLI is the easy part.

With 35 guys on the roster, real playing time might not come for years down the road. The fit might be the correct one and it still take years. This is not just about talent. Luck is also involved. Perseverence and strength of will are the college athlete's best friends.

Infield08 also makes good points that things can change.

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:
Thankfully, there have been no regrets -- and that's what I hear from the parents of lots of other players who leave their programs. The thing for folks to remember is that it is not a disaster or tragedy if things don't work out as planned; it's simply part of the learning process as players learn more about themselves and decide what is most important to them. It's all good.....

Great perspective. The players at the boys school. Good kids who may have underestimated the commitment.

So the easy part is the signing of the NLI....great!
He isn't signing this time around, I am sure he will be all set come spring...or summer...

My son wishes signing the NLI was the easy part!

"Fit" comes in all sizes and shapes.

You see a lot of transfers on roster because kids are trying to find a situation that works best for them, much like a job. Signing to play any school is always bit a gamble and/or leap in faith as you'll never really know until you spend some time in the program. Additionally, as the kid spends his first year or two at college, he gets a better understanding of what is really important to himself which may be very different from his HS senior year (i.e. is sitting on the bench still OK?)

My son transfered to a JC from a D1 to get playing time. The second time he went to a four year college it was less of a gamble as he knew what opportunity/commitment he was really looking for, in addition to knowing alot more about some programs from JC coaches and players.

If you see a school with a "lot" of transfers, don't assume they take anyone, ask the coach why he has transfers. You may get a different answer for each kid. SOme coaches will go after a 4-2-4 players looking to prove something to the world as they will not be problem players and will have a good influence on their team.

one of the best threads I have seen, and I would love to know how to do that vote set up. Very cool.

Fit is very tough, that coach that seemed straight forward all of a sudden becomes that coach with a lot of angles (kids) but lets face it kids present to a coach tough situations.

Is the kid a player?, a good student?, work hard in practice? or is he a normal kid trying to figure out what life means for him? Does that great high school model kid according to our society now try new things? and gets himself in hot water over it?

Will the coach have patience and try to work it through? or will he cut his losses and replace the kid right now?

It comes back to what has been said on this site time and time again...

Would my kid stay at that school if there was no baseball???

Answer that and the rest of the decisions might be a little easier.

quote:

Perseverence and strength of will are the college athlete's best friends.

That is such a true statement. Mentally and physically.

Poll:JC for one year to a 4 year.

Good fit: So much goes on, on so many levels its hard to know.

Academics: Very hard, probably a stretch but hes doing it and succeeding.But he has to work hard.

Baseball: New coaches,going well.All comes down to opportunity and response to opportunities given.

Regrets: I don't know.I hven't had a minute to ask him.Or he hasn't had a minute to answer.

Does he still love it: YES, is it still a passion:YES.

quote:

I would love to know how to do that vote set up. Very cool

*When you start a new discussion, you have an option of doing a poll. Actually very easy to do.*

There are a few things listed I hadn't really thought about, gives me a better idea about transfers.


Finding the right fit might need to be tweaked down the road. I guess he'll find out when he gets there.

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Boydston:
Not so long ago there were some knockdown dragout debates relating to this topic. "Look for the best fit" or question whether you would go there if there wasn't baseball, even "do your homework before you commit", and I still think those should be explored, but it's just not that simple. There were those telling you that absent of your sons health being at risk, you should never transfer. Lack of playing time, greener pastures, dislike for a particular coach were not good enough reasons to transfer. The comment was even brought up "what kind of message would you be sending to your kid if you let him transfer when the going got tough". The theme at that time was you signed and committed, you should fulfill your commitment.

I'm glad to see that some of these same posters have changed their tune somewhat as I have seen many who have allowed their kids to transfer for various reasons including but not limited to "playing time".

For the record, I was of the belief that if you are unhappy for whatever reason, then by all means transfer. And as for the poll, son is a medical redshirt junior at the school he signed his NLI out of high school.

I was and still am of the belief you stay, unless there is a situation so out of control you have to leave. That's why we made son do his homework and consider everything, this was not a hasty decision just based upon the reputation of the school and program. All things were taken into consideration, the closer school in our state would have been ideal, we took a look at the abuse of young pitchers on pitching staff and that was enough to throw out all of the positive stuff to stay in state.
Pitcher son went to a top ranked D1 in the ACC, he called his first season and said he was not happy and considering a transfer when season was over. Yeah those things happen going to those programs too. We didn't encourage it. A lot of it was just the difficulty of a very tough year and it's adjustments, far from home, tired frustrated. Great coaches but he couldn't put up with them half the time(that first year) because he thought their expectations were out of control and his pitching coach was relentless (thank you KO).

The deal is college baseball is very tough, so your decision should be made based on that fact. It's gonna be very hard, the coach is gonna be tough, you are gonna be homesick, you might find that when baseball isn't happening there isn't much to do or for some there is too much to do.

It's ok if the player wants to transfer and it's ok if the player sticks it out, there really isn't a right or wrong, every decision is dependent upon your own player. Would not have been a good thing if we encouraged son to pursue other programs after that first year.

Thanks, TPM.
Good post....

quote:

he called his first season and said he was not happy and considering a transfer when season was over. Yeah those things happen going to those programs too. We didn't encourage it. A lot of it was just the difficulty of a very tough year and it's adjustments, far from home, tired frustrated.

Yep, that happened to our family too, and we also encouraged son to stick it out. But in Year 2, when he still wanted to leave, we knew the writing was on the wall. I'm reminded of that old Kenny Rogers song:

quote:

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run...

Our son is going to a JUCO. He did not have many offers so choice wasn't much of an issue. He is being redshirted his first year. He seems happy with the school, coaches and his situation. No plans to transfer to any other school.

.
Had one that transferred...one that stayed...

Every situation is markedly different...there is no template...you do your best to find a fit...you track down every lead...you ask all the right questions...you do your due diligence...and I can guarantee that your "fit" will arrive with suprises and challenges that you could never have forseen or predicted...for that reason I suggest that it is best to train and prepare your players phsyically, mentally, emotionally and academically to adapt and adjust and be flexible...be it here or on the move. The ability to function and thrive in the chaos and challenge is arguably the most important skill a player can possess and a huge advantage. The invitation to a new higher level is simply an opportunity to start over again at the bottom. Those who struggle the best will grind their way to success, and every player will face that requirement at some point...if not now later...I can make a case the sooner the better. Reagrdless if they end up transferring or not they need to be able to have held their heads high, knowing that they fulfilled what was asked to the best of their ability, been a productive part of the team, made academic progress, learned life lessons, and leave without bitterness. My transfer simply redefined and reclarified his goals after his first year, looked at the tradeoff's in baseball and life, prioritized them, and decided that his were not in line with what the program offered. He left on very good terms. Over the year he had done everything that was asked of him and more, he was highly respected by teammates, caoches and professors, was asked to stay, respectfully declined, and thanked the staff and the program on the way out for their help and guidance and has not looked back.

44
.

Great post O44. Hope all is well.

.
Always..thanks!

44
.

quote:

My transfer simply redefined and reclarified his goals after his first year, looked at the tradeoff's in baseball and life, prioritized them, and decided that his were not in line with what the program offered. He left on very good terms. Over the year he had done everything that was asked of him and more, he was highly respected by teammates, caoches and professors, was asked to stay, respectfully declined, and thanked the staff and the program on the way out for their help and guidance

I could not see a child of your's doing anything differently. Best of success to him.

.
Why thanks. The interesting thing is that as I was re-reading my comment I smiled as I realized that I have also described the path of another player we both know who now finds himself in a new program...and flourishing. Great young men persevere alike...

44
.

Hear, hear!!

O44, I did not pick that up on the first read either. But you are right. And, thanks.

The sentiment itself(I hope) describes every transfer player.

If you are going to leave - do it right!

OB,
Great post.

We are talking about 17 18 19 year old kids. They make a decision based on the things that are important to them when they make that decision. Sometimes everything works out great. Sometimes its ok and they stick it out. Sometimes what was important when they went to that first school just isn't as important anymore. Every young man is different and sometimes what is important when you sign doesn't mean squat a year or two down the road.

My son dreamed of going where he went out of hs. He had many other choices I felt were a better fit for him. But it was his dream, his goal and his decision that had to be made. All I could do was give him my best advice and then allow him to make the call. I was not going to have him look me in the eye's when he was 30 and blame me for not allowing him to live his dream. I did not want him to have any doubts, any regrets, and blame me for not allowing him to chase his dream. He was the one that had to live it, deal with it, make it happen, make the tough decisions.

My son transferred because the academics were so demanding he was under constant pressure. The baseball situation was one where what he brought to the table as a player was not valued where he was. Instead he was being asked to be something he was not. And what made him a good player was he being who he was. So the academics coupled with a bad baseball fit was making him very unhappy and basically he was a miserable person. He battled. He sucked it up. He was willing to stay the course no matter what. He did not want to be viewed as a failure or a quitter. He was more than willing to fight it to the end and finish where he started.

Thats where I stepped in as a parent. NO you don't have to stay where you are not happy. You dont have to prove anything to anyone. Its not about you not being tough enough or good enough. Its not about you proving your not a failure. Its about the fact you only have one time to go through this and you shouldnt look back on this experience in your life as a miserable experience that you gutted out. You need to go somewhere where you will be valued for who you are and what you bring to the table. A place where they want you because of who you are and not what they want to make you into. A place where you can get a good education without beating you into the ground. A place where you can play baseball, get a degree, and enjoy the experience and have some fun doing it.

My son listened to me this time around , found a place that met his desired needs and goals and is the most happy young man today I have ever seen him. Kids grow up quick. They learn and they adapt. And they understand that what was important at 18 might not be important when they are 21. Don't we as adults do the exact same thing in our own lives? Its not the end of the world if your son makes adjustments in life. In fact it can be the begining of a whole new world.

44 that was a great post and pretty much is the reason I decided to post on this topic. My son left on good terms as well. He did what he was asked to do and worked very hard to be the best team player he could be. It was just not the right place for him. That does not mean anyone did anything wrong. Its just how it is sometimes. But its ok because the those two years taught him so much about himself and helped make him into who he is today. And I believe he will be a better person for it.

I dont like to post so much personal stuff on this site. But I did feel in this case maybe my post can help someone out there by reading it.

Good post CM.

Agreed what is important at 17,18,19 is a lot different than at 21. That's why I am not really into early commitments.

Your son was not a quitter.

That's a lot different than the player who hits a road block and wants out, asap. Part of the growing up process is to try to live up to your commitment and try to make it work, as your son tried to do. Sometimes it's just not going to. No problem with that.

Years ago the thought was if it doesn't work out I will ask for a transfer. We didn't believe in that philosophy even with ease of transfer to D1.

That's why it's more important than ever to try, the best you can to find the right fit (consider all aspects). Academic fit is just as important as the baseball fit. Social fit is also important. Geographical fit is important as well. So is economic fit.

JMO



That's why it's important, as OB44 posted to prepare your player for the road ahead.

quote:

I dont like to post so much personal stuff on this site. But I did feel in this case maybe my post can help someone out there by reading it.

I am glad you and others did.This is the kind of stuff that really helps others when they are going through stuff with their own kids.

People like us, the ones who have been through it, we have such a different perspective from those just trying to find a college for their sons to play at.

I would of never understood how difficult playing high level baseball at a highacademic school was until we watched our own going through it.

I have to agree with Coach May and O44. O 44 helped my family through a similar situation, and like fan of game, I could not have known how difficult some of these situations can be. It becomes even more difficult when the player has been at a 2 year JC and has 2 years left and finds himself in a place where it's not going to work. Add to that the cost of school, etc.
My advice - if you're not happy, truly not happy, and you have done everything you absolutely could have but it's just not happening, get out. There are lots of places to play. You may or may not find that dream program. But don't allow your son to be so miserable. There are many reasons to stay, many to transfer. Every family's situation is different.
Thank goodness for this board. I haven't looked at it for a while, but am very grateful for the folks here who have helped us.