Everyone agrees testing would be a good thing - it will NEVER happen statewide in Il. The state is billions of dollars in debt with billions of unfunded pension liabilities for decades to come. There are buildings in terrible disrepair, book shortages, and many schools fighting to keep academic programs much less sports.
A steroid test runs from $75 - $150, will increase annually of course, and will only get more and more expensive as more types of steroids are developed.
Will all taxpayers want to foot the bill for a test for students who voluntarily play a sport and voluntarily take an illegal drug - no way.
Will superintendents,teachers,staff etc. want a cut in pay or funding cut for academic programs to pay for this - no.
It's harsh but there's simply no way to help everyone. The alcohol & other drugs are a much,much bigger problem and account for far more deaths & injury than steroids. We've gone quickly from not thinking or believing it was a problem in mlb to believing it is an epidemic in high schools.
There are isolated cases of course but the alcohol/other drugs problem trumps steroids by a ton.
For me it all starts in the home--- a solid home foundation and relationship between parent and teen can go along way toward preventing drug or alchohol use
quote:Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
CoachB25:
I'm sorry to hear about all of the tragedy, pain, and suffering that your school and community has experienced. It's a tough time of the year to endure all of that...and your students will be leaning on you...you're capable...we're behind you coach.
Try and have a Merry Christmas and we'll pray that the New Year will bring better fortunes.
Thanks. We just can't believe it. We just had another wreck on Rt. 40. Right in the middle of basketball practice. I don't know the particulars since it just happened but more ambulances. Something has to be done about this road!!!
quote:Originally posted by Travel Ball Select What about the athletic kid that doesn't grow up in the leafy burbs, with a Mom driving the Range Rover and dad in the Beemer? No daddy connections to the IVY schools, no pops to help guide down that path...Just a single mom raising him and the kid looking for an edge..to get that scholarship. We better find a way to help that kind of kid out..if we don't the community as a whole fails!
Certain areas where I come from, these kids should get the test first. Those that can afford, buy it. I think that statement was rather biased.
Drugs, (and alcohol) use among HS kids is rampid, all kinds, ***,HIV as well. You could test all day as Chill says, that's how bad it is. Young adults have NO fear of anything, nothing scares many of them, even the thought of random testing. If getting picked up for under age drinking and thrown in jail doesn't scare them, having been involved in an under the influence sriving experience doesn't stop tehm, nothing will. They know it is wrong, but they think, "it won't happen to me".
Education begins at home, when your child is young. I belong to the theory of not putting on presure to be the best, throw the hardest, hit the furthest. Who do you think puts the pressure on the kids to perform better, get better? Let them have FUN.
Who so you think puts the pressure on the athletes. WE do, the same people who are screaming for drug testing. It's really a vicous cycle, until it is broken it won't stop.
As an NCAA student (at my son's school, don't know if this is required at all schools), when the student is a bit more mature (as a college freshman) to become a bit more realistic of life's consequences, classes must be taken (for no credit) for everything from ***, HIV, alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc. It more or less backed up things we tried ot teach him all along.
Does it help? I don't know, do know that son came away with a better understanding of things.
In that class they are drilled to understand, the choice is theirs, they are responsible for themselves. It's a bit easier to tell that to a 18,19 year old than many 13,14, 15 year olds.
I like the idea of code of conduct meetings at an early age, the rules are outlined, things are discussed and it is up to the young player and parents to understand the implications (most parents don't). As the player matures, he will realize it's up to him. Testing does not belong in school. I'd rather see the middle and HS parents go through a class. They are the ones who need to be educated, so they in turn can bring it home.
Anyone know what happens when one is tested positive in a particular university or school? It's NOT for public knowledge, no one is forced off the team, there are rules, school rules and NCAA rules. And that player can go anywhere, as no one has to know.
Does random testing work as a scare tactic, for a few yes, for most, NO.
Just keep telling your 13,14,15 year old everyday he needs to get bigger, stonger, faster. Just keep talking about all the kids who are TOP prospects as 09's, best 12,13, 14 teams, all american 13, 14 year olds. 5 tool players at 15, put a little bit more pressure on them and for sure we will have a larger problem on our hands than we already have. When my son was 13, 14, 15 he played for FUN.
You want to know why we have good players here, 'cause we don't worry about THAT stuff. We let our kids play to learn about being on a team, and do well in school FIRST. We follow our kids leads as to whether this is REALLY what they want and most who don't want it are done by HS. We play HS here for the HS ball experience, very few actually get scholarships in the end.
The ones who are looking beyond, join a travel team for summer, fall. There was NEVER any pressure put on my son by his HS or summer coaches or us to have a stellar ERA, W,L record , throw 90's to get into school or get drafted. We never spent ANY time dwellig on who was the best in the area or state at 13,14. HS, yes, for the older varsity players. We watchd our friends kids, the boys our boys played with move on because it was ENJOYABLE.
You see folks, WE force our kids to make these choices. You may not realize it, but take a step back for a while, see if yours really wants it, or you really want it. Who wants it MORE at 13, 14, 15?
Can you tell I have had it with this thread?
Coach B,
So sorry for your town's loss.
Denis, Testing would not be a good thing.
Travel, u agree with me that it is impossible just to test the baseball and football players right. So we have to test EVERYBODY. Which means u must test the cross country team. The swimming team. U have to test the badmitton team. The hockey team.
Also if ur going to test the baseball team, do u test just the varsity, or do u go down and test all of the scranyny little freshman who are not even shaving.
It could never happend and should not happend.
Coach B25, I love History and steriod testing is unconstituional
Travel, u agree with me that it is impossible just to test the baseball and football players right. So we have to test EVERYBODY. Which means u must test the cross country team. The swimming team. U have to test the badmitton team. The hockey team.
Also if ur going to test the baseball team, do u test just the varsity, or do u go down and test all of the scranyny little freshman who are not even shaving.
It could never happend and should not happend.
Coach B25, I love History and steriod testing is unconstituional
Steroid testing is not unconstitional. It is done all the time. It is especially OK if it a requirement for a VOLUNTARY activty like hs athletics.
There is no absolute deterent for any behavior. Even if the death penalty was conducted in a timely fashion (26 years before Tookie met his fate) it would not stop murder. We are talking about saving lives and reducing the number of kids who are harmed. There will always be bad behavior, and some will get away with it (Bonds, McGuire, Sosa etc). But the kid that is stopped may be someone you know.
Also,TPM, I like looking at who's the best at those ages. My kid is very competitive and one that has been mentioned on these sites. He didn't start lifting until he did it as a freshman this year under the supervision fo his hs coaches. His school's program to the best of anyone's knowlege is clean. Stressing being the best doesn't mean a kid will cheat to get their., and just because a kid is playing for fun doesn't mean he won't try and get an edge if he goes to the wrong gym and meets the wrong people.
There is no absolute deterent for any behavior. Even if the death penalty was conducted in a timely fashion (26 years before Tookie met his fate) it would not stop murder. We are talking about saving lives and reducing the number of kids who are harmed. There will always be bad behavior, and some will get away with it (Bonds, McGuire, Sosa etc). But the kid that is stopped may be someone you know.
Also,TPM, I like looking at who's the best at those ages. My kid is very competitive and one that has been mentioned on these sites. He didn't start lifting until he did it as a freshman this year under the supervision fo his hs coaches. His school's program to the best of anyone's knowlege is clean. Stressing being the best doesn't mean a kid will cheat to get their., and just because a kid is playing for fun doesn't mean he won't try and get an edge if he goes to the wrong gym and meets the wrong people.
I hate that I used "their" for there. Sorry for the typo.
bb,
That's ok, I respect your opinion as a parent. Everyone enjoys reading about their kids,can't deny that one. Some websters have come and posted about mine, but that was usually because they read it in a newspaper or on his college website, or watched a game, but never discussed or compared to any other player. There is a difference. JMO.
Beginning a serious work out program is important. The main focus should be on helping the player to remain healthy so he can reach the next level after HS. It should not interfere with his growth process. It takes YEARS before the benefits begin to show, not immediately. My son has been in a serious training program (before that just a light workout routine) for a year and a half, with the results just beginning to show, at 20. His workout is based upon injury prevention. Mother nature will take care of the rest.
As soon as kids begin worrying they are not big enough, strong enough they start getting ideas,no one is talking about me, I won't get a scholarhip or drafted if I can't hit the long ball, or I am not TALL enough or I am not BIG enough. They workout and want immediate results, parents talk, can't understand why son isn't BIGGER looking. Seeds are planted.
If yours is just a HS freshman, you'll understand someday.
JMO.
That's ok, I respect your opinion as a parent. Everyone enjoys reading about their kids,can't deny that one. Some websters have come and posted about mine, but that was usually because they read it in a newspaper or on his college website, or watched a game, but never discussed or compared to any other player. There is a difference. JMO.
Beginning a serious work out program is important. The main focus should be on helping the player to remain healthy so he can reach the next level after HS. It should not interfere with his growth process. It takes YEARS before the benefits begin to show, not immediately. My son has been in a serious training program (before that just a light workout routine) for a year and a half, with the results just beginning to show, at 20. His workout is based upon injury prevention. Mother nature will take care of the rest.
As soon as kids begin worrying they are not big enough, strong enough they start getting ideas,no one is talking about me, I won't get a scholarhip or drafted if I can't hit the long ball, or I am not TALL enough or I am not BIG enough. They workout and want immediate results, parents talk, can't understand why son isn't BIGGER looking. Seeds are planted.
If yours is just a HS freshman, you'll understand someday.
JMO.
Tiger Paw Mom:
Your post was one of the best I've ever read on this website. You are absolutly right. Thank you.
CoachB25:
I'm sorry, too, about all of the tragedy, pain, and suffering that your school and community has experienced. It is a tough time to endure all of it, there is so much of it all at once, and it sounds like it is continuing. You and your community will be in our prayers.
All of these tragedies puts the game of baseball into perspective, doesn't it?
Peace.
Your post was one of the best I've ever read on this website. You are absolutly right. Thank you.
CoachB25:
I'm sorry, too, about all of the tragedy, pain, and suffering that your school and community has experienced. It is a tough time to endure all of it, there is so much of it all at once, and it sounds like it is continuing. You and your community will be in our prayers.
All of these tragedies puts the game of baseball into perspective, doesn't it?
Peace.
Chill you missed awareness! All these thoughts...like walking and chewing gum...hard to do sometimes!! Ballfan, education coupled with fear...we have solved the problem!...a little of both goes a long way...or is it weigh???? Chill please help with this..
Well said Tiger Paw Mom, thank you
Tiger Paw mom, You make some excellent points and you also come across as tired and jaded...Are you against naming All-Star teams and awarding MVP's at the youth level? Do you find fault with us recognizing the top performing student athletes? Is this really that disturbing to you? I don't see any of the old timers blasting the holy grail Baseball America Magazine for their feature "Team for the Ages" which highlights you guessed it the Top twelve thru 24 year olds...And yes they even call them All Americans! Can you believe it! Do you think we invented the idea of acknowledging youth athletes? Top twelve year olds! I bet your kid was named to an All-Star team and you were very much into the personal accolades....Hypocrisy and duplicity run rampant here! The grandstanders that say all the right things about love of the game and for fun...come on...I think we all know this site is populated by a vast majority of ultra competitive fence hangers and stage moms...You know it look in the mirror..
Travel baseball..............I've defended you to a degree, but what the heck do steroids have to do with your apparently "jaded" attitude about "old timers" who must be Hypocrits and duplicitous who are ultra competitive fence hangers? I'm a lot less competitive than I was when I was a whippersnapper like you. It isn't your "new" way of looking at things that ticks people off...it's your lack of respect for people who have been through the grind, hopefully a little more aware for it. Do you think for a minute that it might be a bad thing that Baseball America is naming 12 year old All-Americans? Or that it really matters? For you to guess that any person that you don't know is very much into the accolades as you put it is pretty rude. Give it a rest.
Travelball-I have read your threads and am baffled. If a kid tested positive would you take him off your list? Would you quit promoting him to play college or get drafted? How about you promote your site as an "all natural tournament" and make a clean drug test a part of the eligibility requirements to play in your tournaments. Don't take money out of the education system to police the few while punishing the many.
Substance abuse unfortunately has always been with us and always will be. I attended college in the 70's and alcohol and drug abuse was more of a problem in those days then it is today, I believe. Don't get me wrong .... it is still a huge problem and costs us dearly. Education and penalties are the only things that will deter. People are much more careful driving after drinking today that they were 20 years ago .... why?? .... severe penalties for getting caught. Still, too many drive while under the influence with tragic results.
Steroids are a big problem in sports .... I don't know much about the HS level (even though I had 2 kids play sports in HS - just did not hear much about roids ...) but we know the story in college and professional sports. MLB is finaly getting serious after pressure from Congress. The NCAA needs to do likewise and close the loopholes like not testing kids who particilate in summer baseball leagues. The pressure to win in college is so intense today due to the corrunpting influence of big $$. Some coaches will look the other way and tell the kids to do whetever it takes to get stronger and better ........ severe penalties and testing is the only way to address this. I don't know the solution to steroids at the HS level with the cost issues however if the right example is set at the college and pro level the HS kids will maybe see steroids as not the way to go. I have personal knowledge of the damage steroids can cause and the danger is real.
Baseball America highlighting the top 12 year olds .......... this is ridiculous.
Prayers go out to you CoachB25 ........
Steroids are a big problem in sports .... I don't know much about the HS level (even though I had 2 kids play sports in HS - just did not hear much about roids ...) but we know the story in college and professional sports. MLB is finaly getting serious after pressure from Congress. The NCAA needs to do likewise and close the loopholes like not testing kids who particilate in summer baseball leagues. The pressure to win in college is so intense today due to the corrunpting influence of big $$. Some coaches will look the other way and tell the kids to do whetever it takes to get stronger and better ........ severe penalties and testing is the only way to address this. I don't know the solution to steroids at the HS level with the cost issues however if the right example is set at the college and pro level the HS kids will maybe see steroids as not the way to go. I have personal knowledge of the damage steroids can cause and the danger is real.
Baseball America highlighting the top 12 year olds .......... this is ridiculous.
Prayers go out to you CoachB25 ........
TRhit.....spot on
You said it all...with an economy of verbage.
I think its what TPM meant.
Don't test...establish a meaningful relationship with your son.
and as for gestapo man travel select..get a chill pill dude...zero tolerance has its place...and its NOT with HS kids.
You said it all...with an economy of verbage.
I think its what TPM meant.
Don't test...establish a meaningful relationship with your son.
and as for gestapo man travel select..get a chill pill dude...zero tolerance has its place...and its NOT with HS kids.
TBS,
There was a discussion regarding that BA article, some didn't approve, some did, before your time, you missed it. Why would you insult Baseball America, if you are "affiliated" with them?
There is nothing wrong with playing on an All Star team or receiving an MVP award.
Son had a few MVPs. We were proud, he came home and put them on the shelf. That was it. He was never mentioned as an MVP anywhere but in our home. The most exciting was given to him his senior year in HS. Two actually if you must know, it was a nice award for a good SENIOR year.
Son played in ONE ALL STAR game, senior year, June. That was very exciting, because he was just about to graduate and he was headed off to a fine college program and it meant something. To be recognized as an outstanding baseball player in his county after all the hard work he had put in was most rewarding to HIM, not his parents. FYI parents, those things don't get you college scholarships. Having someone make you THINK you need to do these things to get your son ahead is totally false. When choosing tournaments and showcases, be smart.
I addressed your quote. The rest of my thread was directed to everyone.
Your information is not correct, telling people you know of players who got recruiting letters in Florida (9th graders). They may have gotten a questionaire, camp bochure, not a recruiting letter, go read teh NCAA rules on recruiting. 5 tool player 13, 14 ,15? Must be a phenom. And I am told I am misleading? Most drafted players don't have 5 tools, most MLB players don't have 5 tools. Oh by teh way, that was a discussion on the HSBBW a month or so back. lots of knowledgeable people responded, players parents, scouts, coaches and PG I do believe.
Say as you will, insult as you must. I certainly am not a fence hanger or stage mom, I don't HAVE to be. I enjoyed my son's youth baseball experience, the only stressful time during recruiting and the draft. The only time it really COUNTED. The rest was for FUN!
I have taken offense about your comments to Coach B. Although he knows that I don't always agree with him, we don't insult. That's where you have gone wrong here, you've taken everyone on who has brought to your attention that you may be incorrect. Why don't you venture out a bit beyond the ILL thread to see what's really going on in the HSBBW.
You also lashed out at Chill, who knows more about baseball than you could imagine. Those are the kind of posters you want to know because THEY know. By teh way, she has been around a lot longer than I have.
I am wondering why you lead me to believe you have an "affiliation" with many mentioned on your site. This could be misleading.
I am not here to argue, you bring up valid points, but then when you ask for input and someone doubts you or negates, you flip, like your word is the final word on every subject.
I agree with Fastballs post, you don't know me, or you don't know many of us. Do you think that somewhere along the way, of the road we traveled that we lost touch?
I speak to my son's recruitng coach often and ask him many recruiting questions to better understand how it works, pass it along.
I was going to ask him if he actively recruits 9th graders but I thought he might laugh in my face.
I am not disagreeing with what you say about steroids. You opened a discussion and when you do you will get varied opinions.
Tired, yes, jaded, no
TPM
There was a discussion regarding that BA article, some didn't approve, some did, before your time, you missed it. Why would you insult Baseball America, if you are "affiliated" with them?
There is nothing wrong with playing on an All Star team or receiving an MVP award.
Son had a few MVPs. We were proud, he came home and put them on the shelf. That was it. He was never mentioned as an MVP anywhere but in our home. The most exciting was given to him his senior year in HS. Two actually if you must know, it was a nice award for a good SENIOR year.
Son played in ONE ALL STAR game, senior year, June. That was very exciting, because he was just about to graduate and he was headed off to a fine college program and it meant something. To be recognized as an outstanding baseball player in his county after all the hard work he had put in was most rewarding to HIM, not his parents. FYI parents, those things don't get you college scholarships. Having someone make you THINK you need to do these things to get your son ahead is totally false. When choosing tournaments and showcases, be smart.
I addressed your quote. The rest of my thread was directed to everyone.
Your information is not correct, telling people you know of players who got recruiting letters in Florida (9th graders). They may have gotten a questionaire, camp bochure, not a recruiting letter, go read teh NCAA rules on recruiting. 5 tool player 13, 14 ,15? Must be a phenom. And I am told I am misleading? Most drafted players don't have 5 tools, most MLB players don't have 5 tools. Oh by teh way, that was a discussion on the HSBBW a month or so back. lots of knowledgeable people responded, players parents, scouts, coaches and PG I do believe.
Say as you will, insult as you must. I certainly am not a fence hanger or stage mom, I don't HAVE to be. I enjoyed my son's youth baseball experience, the only stressful time during recruiting and the draft. The only time it really COUNTED. The rest was for FUN!
I have taken offense about your comments to Coach B. Although he knows that I don't always agree with him, we don't insult. That's where you have gone wrong here, you've taken everyone on who has brought to your attention that you may be incorrect. Why don't you venture out a bit beyond the ILL thread to see what's really going on in the HSBBW.
You also lashed out at Chill, who knows more about baseball than you could imagine. Those are the kind of posters you want to know because THEY know. By teh way, she has been around a lot longer than I have.
I am wondering why you lead me to believe you have an "affiliation" with many mentioned on your site. This could be misleading.
I am not here to argue, you bring up valid points, but then when you ask for input and someone doubts you or negates, you flip, like your word is the final word on every subject.
I agree with Fastballs post, you don't know me, or you don't know many of us. Do you think that somewhere along the way, of the road we traveled that we lost touch?
I speak to my son's recruitng coach often and ask him many recruiting questions to better understand how it works, pass it along.
I was going to ask him if he actively recruits 9th graders but I thought he might laugh in my face.
I am not disagreeing with what you say about steroids. You opened a discussion and when you do you will get varied opinions.
Tired, yes, jaded, no
TPM
Thats It! I'll throw in the first $20 to fly Tiger Paw Mom up to the inaugural meeting of the Illinois Websters in late Feb. Who's In?
TPM - lots of people trying to muddy the water, your clarity is refreshing.
TPM - lots of people trying to muddy the water, your clarity is refreshing.
Tiger, we didn't intend to insult anyone including you...We clearly have different views. Not every comment we made was directed specifically at you...They were made in general, don't jump the gun here and be overly sensitive. Get some sleep...glad your not jaded...We assisted BA with a story on youth players and received credit for it.
If that constitutes as affiliated fine, however we are not on the payroll, so not sure if the old timers would call that officially affiliated.
If that constitutes as affiliated fine, however we are not on the payroll, so not sure if the old timers would call that officially affiliated.
Gees...
It never ends.
It never ends.
Traveldad,
Thanks so much, would love to come to Chicago someday, but this is not my fav time of the year. BRRRRRRRRRR
Travel Ball Select, you have a PM.
Thanks so much, would love to come to Chicago someday, but this is not my fav time of the year. BRRRRRRRRRR
Travel Ball Select, you have a PM.
Another south Florida sissy! LOL.
Has anyone seen my shoe-horn?
go get my shine box
Where's it?
TBS. I agree with you a lot and enjoy your comments and your site, but I do think you insulted Tiger Paw. You have jumped at people a little bit when they were just stating opinions that are different from yours.
quote:Originally posted by soxnole:
Another south Florida sissy! LOL.
Sox,
Hope you are referring to the COLD weather only!
Tiger Paw Mom;
It's nice to see you two getting along so well!
It's nice to see you two getting along so well!
ACC buddies stick together...at least until the season series and the tournament.
Kinda like styrofoam packing peanuts?
ACC parents should stick together through the whole year!
C'mon you two...am I going to have to break out the can of PAM?
did you mean SPAM?????
MWR-VA just posted this article on the General Items Forum. The last sentence is very disturbing.
Quote; “The National Institute on Drug Abuse estimates that more than 500,000 8th to 10th grade students are currently using steroids, and an increasing number of these students do not believe that they are harmful.”
http://abcnews.go.com/us/LegalCenter/story?id=1411333
Given questimates that there are 15.6 to 16 million high school students in the US, that’s an average of just over 3% of the student population. That’s 90 students using steroids in a high school of 3,000.
Sobering…
Found at one of the following sites…
Quote; “Increasing among adolescents, and most rapidly among females. The 1999 Monitoring the Future study, a NIDA-funded survey of drug abuse among middle school and high school students across the United States, recorded that 2.7 percent of 8th-graders, 2.7 percent of 10th-graders, and 2.9 percent of 12th-graders reported having taken anabolic steroids at least once in their lives. These figures represent increases since 1991 of approximately 50 percent among 8th- and 10th-graders and 38 percent among 12th-graders.”
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-05/12-14-05/a01lo246.htm
http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2005/10/18/news/news06.txt
http://www.drugabuse.gov/SteroidAlert/SteroidAlert.html
My son played for one of the best programs in the state. He just confirmed that he did not see any steroid use in his high school program. Where is this steroid use taking place at the high school level???? Does anyone have personal experience with this??? I just don’t see it….. Some of these reports scare the h*ll out of ya.
Quote; “The National Institute on Drug Abuse estimates that more than 500,000 8th to 10th grade students are currently using steroids, and an increasing number of these students do not believe that they are harmful.”
http://abcnews.go.com/us/LegalCenter/story?id=1411333
Given questimates that there are 15.6 to 16 million high school students in the US, that’s an average of just over 3% of the student population. That’s 90 students using steroids in a high school of 3,000.
Sobering…
Found at one of the following sites…
Quote; “Increasing among adolescents, and most rapidly among females. The 1999 Monitoring the Future study, a NIDA-funded survey of drug abuse among middle school and high school students across the United States, recorded that 2.7 percent of 8th-graders, 2.7 percent of 10th-graders, and 2.9 percent of 12th-graders reported having taken anabolic steroids at least once in their lives. These figures represent increases since 1991 of approximately 50 percent among 8th- and 10th-graders and 38 percent among 12th-graders.”
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-05/12-14-05/a01lo246.htm
http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2005/10/18/news/news06.txt
http://www.drugabuse.gov/SteroidAlert/SteroidAlert.html
My son played for one of the best programs in the state. He just confirmed that he did not see any steroid use in his high school program. Where is this steroid use taking place at the high school level???? Does anyone have personal experience with this??? I just don’t see it….. Some of these reports scare the h*ll out of ya.
A sincere apology to Tiger...Hope it's OK to publish said apology:
Tiger, Thank you for the private message. Your wealth of knowledge and approach to all of this is really refreshing and hopefully we can learn from you. You again make excellent points, however, if you look at the initial posting done by us, you will find appropriate, articulate and measured interaction. We were attacked and quite maliciously by several...I think we were even taken-a-back by the mean spiritedness..We were thrown against the lockers and we pushed back. I regret that some of it crossed the line. I apologize to you and will heed your warning. Don't really like where you are going threatening to "inform" BA & others about us. I have worked with Allan for two years now on the BA Team for the Ages article. We didn't intend to mock BA, rather highlight the fact that they also critique youth players. The PG program is top notch and we have always covered them and their events with very favorable content. We recommend both organizations to the vast audience we have in the Travel World...That being said, if someone wants to discredit us for reacting and defending ourselves against malicious posts, then I guess we have a problem. We certainly don't want to harm any professional reputations and we of course wouldn't want that done to us. We will work at staying focused on the issues...we need to "not push back so hard" It is a shame how quickly the tone darkens on this site...To Tiger, Coach and anyone else we offended...We apologize. Back to the issues!
Tiger, Thank you for the private message. Your wealth of knowledge and approach to all of this is really refreshing and hopefully we can learn from you. You again make excellent points, however, if you look at the initial posting done by us, you will find appropriate, articulate and measured interaction. We were attacked and quite maliciously by several...I think we were even taken-a-back by the mean spiritedness..We were thrown against the lockers and we pushed back. I regret that some of it crossed the line. I apologize to you and will heed your warning. Don't really like where you are going threatening to "inform" BA & others about us. I have worked with Allan for two years now on the BA Team for the Ages article. We didn't intend to mock BA, rather highlight the fact that they also critique youth players. The PG program is top notch and we have always covered them and their events with very favorable content. We recommend both organizations to the vast audience we have in the Travel World...That being said, if someone wants to discredit us for reacting and defending ourselves against malicious posts, then I guess we have a problem. We certainly don't want to harm any professional reputations and we of course wouldn't want that done to us. We will work at staying focused on the issues...we need to "not push back so hard" It is a shame how quickly the tone darkens on this site...To Tiger, Coach and anyone else we offended...We apologize. Back to the issues!
I don't think that any of us would be forwarding any information or contacting your affiliates because that would be very low for any of us to do to say the least. I think we are just giving you some good advise that they wouldn't be happy with the content of some of your posts and to chill a bit.
In any case no one but you is responsible for the content of your posts so if any discredit comes of this in the eyes of your affiliates it solely comes from your fingertips, and isn't the responsibility of anyone else.
Some of your posts are very very good just stay in that mode.
In any case no one but you is responsible for the content of your posts so if any discredit comes of this in the eyes of your affiliates it solely comes from your fingertips, and isn't the responsibility of anyone else.
Some of your posts are very very good just stay in that mode.
Smokey, great work...You uncovered some resources we weren't aware of! Staggering numbers..certainly dispels the myth that this is an aberration! Thanks!
if you can believe all that you read
Those numbers look awful high
Those numbers look awful high
Agree TR. I recall the govt. telling us in explicit detail that Iraq had wmd's. Still looking for em too.
Estimates mean nothing, polls can be skewed. A problem for sure but many more important ones to focus on.
Estimates mean nothing, polls can be skewed. A problem for sure but many more important ones to focus on.
i played jr college baseball and that is where it needs 2 be tested big time. I had 5 guys on my team juicing and i knew from other teams in thearea at least 15 other kids. PLAYING at these levels i understand that steroids is everywhere and its pretty obvious who is taking them. they are not just in the big leagues