Steroid Testing Approved

The slope is now steeper & more slippery. Which piece of personal privacy will you recommend we surrender next? George Orwell warned us all about this type of government behavior. I'll bet he is snickering at us all now.

Being a player... I'm happy. Although I do note/see what dbg__fan is saying.

quote:

Originally posted by dbg_fan:
The slope is now steeper & more slippery. Which piece of personal privacy will you recommend we surrender next? George Orwell warned us all about this type of government behavior. I'll bet he is snickering at us all now.

Steroid use is a definite problem at collegiate levels so I assume it has hit the high schools as well. I'm talking about high percentages at the collegiate level, not just a few. The pressure is very great for those who have chosen not to use steroids. We need to give them a level playing field.

Bottom line....Steriods are illegal

I am all for testing in High School for steriods and for drug use. I am an advocate of Safe Schools and if it takes testing to provide a safer situation at school then I am for it. If it takes testing for Steroids to keep our players on an equal ground and to keep them from potential health risks I am for it.

What does privacy have to do with it ?--- the drug is illegal and if you are clean you have no problem--the only ones I see being concerned with testing are those who are afraid of being caught==parents may be more concerned because of the shame it will bring them when their son is nailed

TRHit

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
What does privacy have to do with it ?--- the drug is illegal and if you are clean you have no problem--the only ones I see being concerned with testing are those who are afraid of being caught==parents may be more concerned because of the shame it will bring them when their son is nailed

I do support steroid testing for atheletes. However, your argument that "if you are clean you have no problem," therefore proactive invasion of privacy is okay, is a bad one. I still believe in the US Constitution and the thinking of our founding fathers in setting it up. The government can harass people and use information for illicit (or different purposes) if you give them the power to invade your privacy. Also, no test is fail-proof. That's why we have search warrants and the like. A powerful, heavy handed government is bad, period. Check your world history and watch some documentaries on communist Russia.

quote:

Originally posted by dbg_fan:
The slope is now steeper & more slippery. Which piece of personal privacy will you recommend we surrender next? George Orwell warned us all about this type of government behavior. I'll bet he is snickering at us all now.

Ask Mr. Hooten of Plano what he thinks about Orwell snickering at us. If we have testing in place, maybe we will not have to bury a son like he did.

http://www.taylorhooton.org/site/TR?px=1001594&pg=fund&fr_id=1030

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
if you are clean you have no problem

That is the most ignorant argument a person can make when discussing a topic such as this.

quote:

Originally posted by dbg_fan:
The slope is now steeper & more slippery. Which piece of personal privacy will you recommend we surrender next? George Orwell warned us all about this type of government behavior. I'll bet he is snickering at us all now.

Ok, why is it that whenever someone comes up with a solution to a problem in this country there are folks that try and convince everyone that they are trying to take away our basic rights and freedoms. I think the government would much rather spend their time on more important issues, but they are forced to intervene where we wont. They are forced to come up with the best answer for a particular problem. They have done that here and it get's turned into a desire to see into my personal life. Certain people will use this as a target to make our government seem overbearing. How about rather than just bringing up talking points and bashing our countries attempts at solving a serious issue, you use all of that energy to find a better solution. One that will free up our government to not have to deal with things that we should be handling ourselves.

Bottom line. If we would control ourselves they wouldn't have to get involved. But we don't so they do.

I hate that he government had to get involved, but until someone comes up with a solution that does not require them to, I'm glad they did. We made the bed. Sorry, don't buy into all the conspiracy crud.

I say bring it on beacuse if my son is doing it I want to get first shot at killing him before the cops lock him up.

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... How about rather than just bringing up talking points and bashing our countries attempts at solving a serious issue, you use all of that energy to find a better solution. One that will free up our government to not have to deal with things that we should be handling ourselves.

Bottom line. If we would control ourselves they wouldn't have to get involved. But we don't so they do.

If left to us personally we will eventually come up with a solution if it's important enough. Folks that automatically turn over their problems for the government to fix when there is no easy solution are the exact reason government continues to be more and more intrusive.

And, I will control myself and I'll do the best I can to control my children.

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Originally posted by stanwood:

If left to us personally we will eventually come up with a solution if it's important enough.

And, I will control myself and I'll do the best I can to control my children.

I believe this is true. However, eventually can sometimes drag on until someone is force to make a decision. I think this is important enough and it's unfortunately about time.

This is not a personal attack. I believe you will control yourself and do your best to lead you kids in the right direction. None of us can do any better than that. When one does not control themselves and drops the ball with their kids, and also will not allow others who are concerned to do so, then the powers that be are forced to step in. That's what has happened here.

I don't think it is about being intrusive at all. It's about problem solving. Want to keep it from happening then come up with a better solution. Eventually something has to be done.

As I stated, I was opposed to manditory testing for a lot of reasons.

The other day, the local Nazi Cops pulled my son over as he was leaving from baseball practice. Of course, since he's 18 and they say he was acting nervous, they asked to search his truck.

They put him and his teammate on the curb while they took an hour to tear his truck apart. I told the Chief of Police after I found out about this that I was angrier with my son for consenting to the search as I was at the cop for doing it in the first place.

You give away some freedoms, and the powers that be always want to extend thier powers to encroach a little farther.

As I said, I've come to the realization that testing must take place in High School, and as I said, I'll possibly comment more about it at a future date.....like the day after my son graduates.

This is not about privacy or lack thereof. You are entitled to your privacy. You do not have to submit to the test. However, if you CHOOSE to be a part of the athletic program, and a rule for steroid testing is in place, then you have a decision to make. You can quit the team, take yourself home and enjoy your privacy, or you can submit to a drug test. It is absolutely your choice. For those who scream that this is an invasion of privacy, I will be interested to see who will forego the privilege (not right) of being a part of the team. If you give a urine sample while screaming about your rights being trampled on, then I will conclude that you were just making noise. If you give up the team then I will believe you were passionate about your beliefs. On another note - as long as professional sports (NFL,MLB, etc) turn a blind eye to steroid and HGH use by players at that level, colleges and high schools will be fighting an uphill battle. Yank some contracts and ban prominent players who test positive. I believe that will get the attention of lower levels. HS and College players use these drugs in order to compete and in hopes of making it to the next level.

Great Post REDHEAD

Imagine this post:

I’m all for steroid usage. All you guys with “clean” kids, enjoy your holier than thou attitudes. I’m the one who’s the biggest, strongest, fastest and best at your son’s position, that’s why I start. When we graduate, I’m going to get the best sports offers, maybe I’ll go pro, maybe I’ll take that D1 or D2 scholarship you were so hoping for. Don’t worry about it there’s always D3 or the memories of your high school days. As long as I can be the star, I’m going to use, and as long as I use, I’ll beat your kid every time, get used to it. Frankly it’s none of your business what I do, it’s my body and my private choice, so but out!



I think that at times we must act for the greater good. America's history is full of examples, up to and including participating in wars. From ending slavery to civil rights to simple driving; laws, rules, and standards are there for all. If someone wants to sit at home a use steroids, and you can get away with purchasing them, then more power too you and your habit, but when you enter society, there are norms established and rules to follow. That is how society works. And yes, the rules do come and go and change over time to reflect the concerns of the day. The most recent are the smoking regulations. This little opinion is from a border line Libertarian, so don’t lecture me about keeping government out of our lives. The reason I’m not a full fledge Libertarian is that I do believe government has a role to play in setting standards, even if I don’t agree with some of the rules they make. We obey the rules because it’s the right thing to do.

Ken, I'm interested to read your opinion on this subject.

quote:

Originally posted by oldbat-never:
Great Post REDHEAD

The sad thing is the parents that have no idea that their kids are using steroids.

I think that this is a great idea. Many people have made good posts on the subject, so I dont feel I should go into great detail. The best thing to say is that, if you dont take steroids, dont worry if they want a sample from you, your clean. It isn't an invasion of privacy in my opinion it is a way to single out the players who are cheating the game.

quote:

Originally posted by KellerDad:
As I stated, I was opposed to manditory testing for a lot of reasons.

The other day, the local Nazi Cops pulled my son over as he was leaving from baseball practice. Of course, since he's 18 and they say he was acting nervous, they asked to search his truck.

They put him and his teammate on the curb while they took an hour to tear his truck apart. I told the Chief of Police after I found out about this that I was angrier with my son for consenting to the search as I was at the cop for doing it in the first place.

You give away some freedoms, and the powers that be always want to extend thier powers to encroach a little farther.

As I said, I've come to the realization that testing must take place in High School, and as I said, I'll possibly comment more about it at a future date.....like the day after my son graduates.

Yes, when the government starts into a new intitiative hold on to your wallets (they have to pay for this stuff somehow and I hear the testing is expensive) and watch a few more of your freedoms say "goodbye." The government has built so much (some call it pork barrel) and therefore has the right to impose more rules. Everything becomes a "privilege.' When you hear that word from a public official of any kind, run!!! It's a privilege to drive on our fine state's highways and city's streets, but you can't get to work in Texas without driving on them. What do you think George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would think if they would have had to have had a revocable license to ride their horses? They would have had another revolution. So school extra-curricular activities are a "privilege" and we have to "pay to play" and we have to sign all kinds of special mumbo jumbo to participate.

If anyone is interested, the following is from our Bill of Rights. It's the law (except for judges, politicians and other public officials who are here to protect us stupid people from ourselves.) I don't see anything about privileges.

Amendment 4
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and
no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized.

Not to get into a political debate since I do agree with a lot of what both sides have to say, but would the fact that an unknown portion of kids suffer from steroid use not be probable cause? Now yes, there is a very simple and direct answer to this I'm aware of, so you don't have to tell me... feel free to tell others tho, I'm not trying to argue.

Would anyone have a problem (neglecting the worry about payment) if the SCHOOLS took this on themselves? Meaning like, every year before the season starts the district has a conference and one year they decide they are going to perform random drug tests and each school will support the tests (yes most will be through tax dollars). If they test 1/8 of the athletes and 1/8 of those athletes tested show up positive... do we freak out? Do we all call for universal random testing? I don't have those answers but I'm all for not having to receive jokes about how I'm on steroids because I "play baseball and every player is on them."

For what it's worth, the Grapevine-Colleyville ISD is completing it's second full year of random testing. The district started testing after the steroid problem at Heritage, and took it far beyond athletes. The random testing includes ALL extra-curricular activities, band, choir, football, everything....The testing is not just steroids, but any illegal substance, including alcohol.

Of course no detailed results are published, but I know a few that have been randomly tested, including one that raids my refrigerator every few hours. The testing has been a non-event at Grapevine.

Like going to the dentist, it SOUNDS far worse than it is in reality. If it saves one life, which it could, isn't it worth it?

quote:

Amendment 4
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

quote:

I think that at times we must act for the greater good. America's history is full of examples, up to and including participating in wars. From ending slavery to civil rights to simple driving; laws, rules, and standards are there for all.

Above is an example that has been around for more than 225 years.

quote:

We obey the rules because it’s the right thing to do

Did we?

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I’m all for steroid usage. All you guys with “clean” kids, enjoy your holier than thou attitudes. I’m the one who’s the biggest, strongest, fastest and best at your son’s position, that’s why I start. When we graduate, I’m going to get the best sports offers, maybe I’ll go pro, maybe I’ll take that D1 or D2 scholarship you were so hoping for. Don’t worry about it there’s always D3 or the memories of your high school days. As long as I can be the star, I’m going to use, and as long as I use, I’ll beat your kid every time, get used to it. Frankly it’s none of your business what I do, it’s my body and my private choice, so but out!

O'brady, are you against drug use or just trying to level the playing field?

And, by the way, you just gave up these two of the older rules, too.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Your school district is now judge, jury, and executioner..........

You know, I forgot about this one.

quote:

Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

quote:

Originally posted by FormerObserver:

And, by the way, you just gave up these two of the older rules, too.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Your school district is now judge, jury, and executioner..........

True enough, FormerObserver. Since everything has become a privilege, not a right, the table has turned. A public officials makes their charge, and the accused is guilty until they prove themselves innocent. How'd you like to be a Duke Lacrosse player? If a steroid test is faulty, or heaven forbid, a testing official or vendor is corrupt or just plain disorganized, the accused is out anyway. His career is over before he can prove himself innocent. The UIL/HS handles the moving for athletic purposes versus family purposes the same way. They are the judge, jury and executioner.

quote:

Originally posted by Baseball Junkie 2:
Like going to the dentist, it SOUNDS far worse than it is in reality. If it saves one life, which it could, isn't it worth it?

I have said this before. I am for testing. However, keep the Coaches and Teachers away. They have influence on who is tested and who is not. I say this because, It appeared that everytime there was testing at the school both of my children were selected. Coaches and Teachers knew that my kids were clean.(Not meaning to sound high and mighty)
And that other Athletes were getting busted on weekends for consumption and the coach just sweeping it under the rug.

It also helped give me peace of mind, that I was actually doing something right. I am including a link to a topic on this board about the same issue.

1 2 3 Like a bird I sing,,,Test Away!!!!!!

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7106002781/...101090561#8101090561

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Originally posted by Baseball Junkie 2: If it saves one life, which it could, isn't it worth it?

Following your logic, we should not drive cars, fly in airplanes or eat at MacDonalds. If we would all quit doing those things, we would save many more lives than additional steroids testing. Maybe the government should have free drug testing for everyone, every year. That would probably save even more lives. Why save only athletes lives?

quote:

Originally posted by Dtiger:
Not to get into a political debate since I do agree with a lot of what both sides have to say, but would the fact that an unknown portion of kids suffer from steroid use not be probable cause? Now yes, there is a very simple and direct answer to this I'm aware of, so you don't have to tell me... feel free to tell others tho, I'm not trying to argue.

Would anyone have a problem (neglecting the worry about payment) if the SCHOOLS took this on themselves? Meaning like, every year before the season starts the district has a conference and one year they decide they are going to perform random drug tests and each school will support the tests (yes most will be through tax dollars). If they test 1/8 of the athletes and 1/8 of those athletes tested show up positive... do we freak out? Do we all call for universal random testing? I don't have those answers but I'm all for not having to receive jokes about how I'm on steroids because I "play baseball and every player is on them."

Very good post. Read it through a few times folks. No one is going after your rights here. We could have very easily taken care of this ourselves, but haven't for the most part.

Some of us won't allow this kind of action to take place until it has to be forced down our throats to prevent a problem from getting worse. That's why this is happening.

FO,

I'm dead set against any recreational, illegal, or todays over use of legally prescribed drugs. I think today’s society has become too dependent on what the latest drug can do to improve their lives. I fought the Ritalin battle for over ten years before finally winning. All I can think of is the old Rolling Stones song “Mother’s Little Helper”.

If you don't know your kid is doing steroids, drinking, or using drugs then you are an idiot. You must not spend much time around your kid.

O'brady, how prevalent do you think the use of steroids is in college?

I have no data so any thing else would just be a guess, but I'm sure it's there.

Let me say this as a parent--no politics involved---my son tells me that he is not a user---if he fails the test he will have a much bigger problem with this Italian Dad than he will with the authorities--if he thinks they can give him grief he aint seen nothing yet

So, without data, and guessing, you are sure it's there.

So, without data, and guessing, what would be your assessment of the current NCAA drug test policy?

Drug testing is not random they pick who they know is clean. Worked at a job once where they were always testing the same people. Thats not random.

That's right, I have no data those who passed or "failed". I think it's kept pretty secret. I'm sure those around the programs know who is using.

I've seen kids at one of my son's old school go from normal size kid to monster in 6 months or so and all of the kids laughted about it and how was using. Do I KNOW he was using, no, but you can pretty much accept that his peers know. So, YES, without data I can presume that it is out there.

Your assessment of the NCAA drug testing policy is........?

I do not have a pony in that race and I am not familiar with it and it's procedures and regulations. So go ahead and make your point.