I have made my point.
What point, we aren't talking about a college program, we're talking about a high school testing program. Now I do have an athlete in high school, bring on the cup, every week if you'd like.
To paraphrase something I've been reading.
"A community's (country or state) true need is seldom for more laws since if that community does not have moral people in it, even just laws will be used unjustly. Communities do not become strong by laws (or by tests to ensure the laws or being followed), but by the moral character of their citizens."
The steroid tests will not eliminate cheating. Cheaters will find new ways to cheat. Government imposed tests, without warrant or probable cause, will chip away at its citizens freedoms - whether you believe that or not.
"A community's (country or state) true need is seldom for more laws since if that community does not have moral people in it, even just laws will be used unjustly. Communities do not become strong by laws (or by tests to ensure the laws or being followed), but by the moral character of their citizens."
The steroid tests will not eliminate cheating. Cheaters will find new ways to cheat. Government imposed tests, without warrant or probable cause, will chip away at its citizens freedoms - whether you believe that or not.
quote:To paraphrase something I've been reading.
"A community's (country or state) true need is seldom for more laws since if that community does not have moral people in it, even just laws will be used unjustly. Communities do not become strong by laws (or by tests to ensure the laws or being followed), but by the moral character of their citizens."
Please cite your work.
quote:Originally posted by dbg_fan:
The steroid tests will not eliminate cheating. Cheaters will find new ways to cheat.
Good point. Cheaters are industrious as anybody else. That's why Human Growth Hormone is the big thing now. Morality can not be legislated.
I agree with the poiint that Cheaters will find new ways to cheat. But also, I believe there is probably a pretty high percentage of students that will think twice about cheating if they think they will get caught.
The testing will not totally stop the use, but I think we as parents need to do (and support)programs that will educate and hopefully deter the use of alcohol, drugs, steroids, and whatever comes next.
I have had 3 kids go through a public school system that tested their athletes. I realize it is not a perfect system. I agree that the student has the right not to be tested. That is a choice they have to make; just like they can choose not to stay on the team if things are not going the way they like.
The testing will not totally stop the use, but I think we as parents need to do (and support)programs that will educate and hopefully deter the use of alcohol, drugs, steroids, and whatever comes next.
I have had 3 kids go through a public school system that tested their athletes. I realize it is not a perfect system. I agree that the student has the right not to be tested. That is a choice they have to make; just like they can choose not to stay on the team if things are not going the way they like.
If being on the baseball team is a right and not a privilege, then how is it that players are ever cut? There should be no excuse to ever cut a player if it is a right. According to some, it their God given right as set forth in the Constitution. As far as the correlation of the danger of steroids vs. driving a vehicle goes, there is a significant point being overlooked. Steroids are illegal and driving is not.
For those who have sons/daughters who will be subjected to this injustice, will you demand that your child stand on principle and refuse to give a sample?
For those who have sons/daughters who will be subjected to this injustice, will you demand that your child stand on principle and refuse to give a sample?
quote:Originally posted by Redhead:
If being on the baseball team is a right and not a privilege, then how is it that players are ever cut?
Being on a team is not a right, although I think every student should have the right to tryout.
Testing is a requirement if you elect to play NCAA baseball.
My son has been tested.
If you want to participate in a function that requires testing, then you are making that choice.
So, if high school baseball requires testing and you want to play, you have that choice.
My objection to testing is the false sense of security that it provides.
The test is only an indication on the test day for the items that are included in the test. A drug test does not test for ALL drugs, legal or illegal.
Just because my son has been drug tested by the NCAA does not mean that he is drug free of every drug type from the period of the last test to the next test.
I am also skeptical of the deterrent feature of testing.
Once testing has started, the skeptics will continue their doubt. Was he tested for this drug or that? How often will they be tested? They are only testing the sujects that are known to be drug free.
There has been testing in Texas in some districts with only about 1-2 positive tests in about 10,000 tests performed. (The data was in a Dallas Morning News article that has been previously referenced on this message board.)
You can observe similar results on drug tests at www.ncaa.org.
There are also well known credible reports that report similar instances of substance abuse.
With this change for extracurricular activities, it is not a far stretch that your child will be asked to fill the cup to enter school.
Do we really want that?
My son has been tested.
If you want to participate in a function that requires testing, then you are making that choice.
So, if high school baseball requires testing and you want to play, you have that choice.
My objection to testing is the false sense of security that it provides.
The test is only an indication on the test day for the items that are included in the test. A drug test does not test for ALL drugs, legal or illegal.
Just because my son has been drug tested by the NCAA does not mean that he is drug free of every drug type from the period of the last test to the next test.
I am also skeptical of the deterrent feature of testing.
Once testing has started, the skeptics will continue their doubt. Was he tested for this drug or that? How often will they be tested? They are only testing the sujects that are known to be drug free.
There has been testing in Texas in some districts with only about 1-2 positive tests in about 10,000 tests performed. (The data was in a Dallas Morning News article that has been previously referenced on this message board.)
You can observe similar results on drug tests at www.ncaa.org.
There are also well known credible reports that report similar instances of substance abuse.
With this change for extracurricular activities, it is not a far stretch that your child will be asked to fill the cup to enter school.
Do we really want that?
Perhaps to have all our kids, athletes or not, drug free
How would you feel about a Connecticut Yankee senility test?
Bless his heart.
Bless his heart.
This makes me laugh. What constitutes senility? Passing or failing the test?quote:How would you feel about a Connecticut Yankee senility test?
Not knowing if you've been tested, or not.
quote:Originally posted by dbg_fan:This makes me laugh. What constitutes senility? Passing or failing the test?quote:How would you feel about a Connecticut Yankee senility test?
That's funny right there. I don't care who you are .
Does anybody out there agree with this statement:
"Alot of kids don't think it's wrong....if they can use steroids, alcohol, drugs and get away with it and not get caught".
Anyone else feel like this is true?
Just curious.
"Alot of kids don't think it's wrong....if they can use steroids, alcohol, drugs and get away with it and not get caught".
Anyone else feel like this is true?
Just curious.
Are you cheating if you don't get caught?
Response/add to what OP just said.
Anyone hear Ron Washington's comment's on 1310 the Ticket the Friday before Easter? He was on Norm Hitzges' show and it was some pretty interesting stuff.
Response/add to what OP just said.
Anyone hear Ron Washington's comment's on 1310 the Ticket the Friday before Easter? He was on Norm Hitzges' show and it was some pretty interesting stuff.
Are you cheating if you don't get caught?
I'll take the advise of Collikar
"Do what is right, no matter the circumstance."
I'll take the advise of Collikar
"Do what is right, no matter the circumstance."
OP -- I agree to the extent that today's morality is different than yesterday's. Today's kids know that they are cheating, breaking the law, etc., but they find ways to justify it -- as do parents in some case (see the Allen cheerleader story in today's paper). But our generation drank and took drugs too. A big difference is the availability of performance-enhancing drugs. There is at least one shop in North Dallas that will "produce" a "suppliment" pack that is one small chemical equation away from being illegal. Reports are that its impact is substantial in term of growth. How many parents, as well as kids, believe that if it is not illegal then it is ok?
PantherSon doesn't have a job, for several reasons (perhaps another topic), so he has a choice to make --- eat lunch or use the allowance for something else. Most kids choose food. Sometimes you can't tell which kids are on the juice --- but you can usually pick out the kids that aren't!
I think there is danger in assuming the best because "the kid just works so hard". It's not necessarily a this-or-that issue ---- the kids cheating MAY be hard workers (in the weight room, the batting cage, the Athlete's Course) as well. Many of us don't even blink when the topic of creatin comes up anymore, eh? We're ok with it because it's not HGH.
Thanks everyone for intelligent (and passionate) discussion on a serious subject.
-PD
PantherSon doesn't have a job, for several reasons (perhaps another topic), so he has a choice to make --- eat lunch or use the allowance for something else. Most kids choose food. Sometimes you can't tell which kids are on the juice --- but you can usually pick out the kids that aren't!
I think there is danger in assuming the best because "the kid just works so hard". It's not necessarily a this-or-that issue ---- the kids cheating MAY be hard workers (in the weight room, the batting cage, the Athlete's Course) as well. Many of us don't even blink when the topic of creatin comes up anymore, eh? We're ok with it because it's not HGH. Thanks everyone for intelligent (and passionate) discussion on a serious subject.
-PD