Well your doing a great job at it Julie. This Thread did truely deserve Golden Thread Status.
I still want an Answer to one of my Post's, About what a Scout think's of a player that after being Drafted in the Late Round's.
A DNF player, That chooses to go to D1 College.
Does it Hurt he's chances later as far as being Drafted.
As a parent are whole goal was to see how far baseball could take are Son.
And to take advantage of everything that the sport had to Offer.
The EH and Family Play Host to Minor Leaguer's each year.
And everyone we have taken in has either Graduated are had at least 3 yrs. of College under there belt.
One was Drafted Released and Signed again, And some were
1st round draft pick's that signed after there Junior Year's.
The only differance I see in each is the fact that on one side the Parent's still have to help out the Player. And on the other the Player, Help's out the Parent.
But they still have to perform, and grind out the Minor league schedule. And they love it.
I've seen the Accomplishment's and the Setback's first hand.
It is a Personel Decision that a Young Drafted player need's to think about before they go one way are the other(College vs. Pro).
When do you as a Player Feel you have the best chance of Succeeding in Pro Ball. After HS are After College.
My Son Made his Decision and I believe he made the Right Decision for Him and him only. It's a Personel Decision and should remain that way for he is the one who had to make it.
I believe that if it is meant to be it will happen one way are another. EH
quote:The EH and Family Play Host to Minor Leaguer's each year.
And everyone we have taken in has either Graduated are had at least 3 yrs. of College under there belt.
Peace My Brother(&Family)Shep
"In the professional level, the coaches were always making suggestions, doing advanced drills, helping in cages, and breaking down each individual's mechanics in order to make adjustments and corrections."
Shep, with all the items being discussed, I wanted to make sure this point you made is not overlooked. While I don't know that this is unniversally true, in fact some information suggests it is not, professional baseball does have extremely good teachers/player development coaches. I have mentioned several times how I watched a hitting coach completely rework the swings of two players last summer. In mid June, both were struggling below .200. With one, he worked daily, for hours on end, to shorten the swing and make it more direct to the ball. It took over one month to make the adjustment. Improved both the average and power numbers significantly and the player is now in AA. For the other, the coach worked on keeping the bat through the hitting zone longer. Player ended up hitting almost .350 for the last 2 1/2 months of the season with terrific power. Unfortunately, he has not recaptured that swing this season and seems unable to get similar assistance to reaquire the magic.
In his first Spring Training, our son had some opportunities to talk hitting with Dwayne Murphy, the former Oakland A's centerfielder, and took every oppotunity to do it. It was invaluable to hear and learn from someone he knew could really play the game. Helped him immensely adjust his approach at the professional level, perhaps, more mentally than physically.
There is little doubt that players can improve on the field at a much more prolific pace in professional as compared to college baseball. That should never be doubted or mistaken, or lost in this thread about the impact of the "business of baseball" and dealing with its off the field ramifications.
Shep, with all the items being discussed, I wanted to make sure this point you made is not overlooked. While I don't know that this is unniversally true, in fact some information suggests it is not, professional baseball does have extremely good teachers/player development coaches. I have mentioned several times how I watched a hitting coach completely rework the swings of two players last summer. In mid June, both were struggling below .200. With one, he worked daily, for hours on end, to shorten the swing and make it more direct to the ball. It took over one month to make the adjustment. Improved both the average and power numbers significantly and the player is now in AA. For the other, the coach worked on keeping the bat through the hitting zone longer. Player ended up hitting almost .350 for the last 2 1/2 months of the season with terrific power. Unfortunately, he has not recaptured that swing this season and seems unable to get similar assistance to reaquire the magic.
In his first Spring Training, our son had some opportunities to talk hitting with Dwayne Murphy, the former Oakland A's centerfielder, and took every oppotunity to do it. It was invaluable to hear and learn from someone he knew could really play the game. Helped him immensely adjust his approach at the professional level, perhaps, more mentally than physically.
There is little doubt that players can improve on the field at a much more prolific pace in professional as compared to college baseball. That should never be doubted or mistaken, or lost in this thread about the impact of the "business of baseball" and dealing with its off the field ramifications.
infielddad ...
From what I have watched with our son, there are both types of managers/coaches. His short season coaching staff was not very "hands on" with the players, especially the pitchers who were closely watched for the first month+ without any 'tweeking' at all. Low A ... excellant coaching staff who really seemed to work at their developmental roles. High A ... son seems to be gleaning more from the same pitching coach he worked with at the end of last season, and the new manager, Brett Butler, is quite the educational manager ... obviously trying to teach the guys how to play the game. Can you think of any better manager to teach small ball, bunting, base running/stealing, going to the plate with a plan and not just swinging for the fence every at bat? (Unfortunately, even some of the good players are not necessarily coachable ... makes me wish the kids who have a little less talent could take their places for a few weeks to show what motivation really means, but I digress.)
Since minor league ball is supposed to be all about development (and less about winning, tho that of course is greatly desired), it means a lot to the young men to have a quality coaching staff that works with them to help them realize their dreams.
From what I have watched with our son, there are both types of managers/coaches. His short season coaching staff was not very "hands on" with the players, especially the pitchers who were closely watched for the first month+ without any 'tweeking' at all. Low A ... excellant coaching staff who really seemed to work at their developmental roles. High A ... son seems to be gleaning more from the same pitching coach he worked with at the end of last season, and the new manager, Brett Butler, is quite the educational manager ... obviously trying to teach the guys how to play the game. Can you think of any better manager to teach small ball, bunting, base running/stealing, going to the plate with a plan and not just swinging for the fence every at bat? (Unfortunately, even some of the good players are not necessarily coachable ... makes me wish the kids who have a little less talent could take their places for a few weeks to show what motivation really means, but I digress.)
Since minor league ball is supposed to be all about development (and less about winning, tho that of course is greatly desired), it means a lot to the young men to have a quality coaching staff that works with them to help them realize their dreams.
Infielddad
That is an excellent post and glad to hear that the younger A benefited from the professional level instruction and just maybe when he is 100% and totally free of injury bug, the magic shall return
Earlier this season in FL STATE LEAGUE, I actually went to see your son J.A., who I already knew about from our board here and he was on the disabled list so I didn't get to see him play for Dunedin in Vero even though one of his teammates in the dugout told me he was there before the game. I was there for several of these games in that series.
I have been keeping up with your son and wish him a quick return back here so I can meet him and scout him. Sometimes, a player is faced with aggrevating conditions and adversity, as you well know by now, that will eventually pass and how the player handles and responds to that situation is a high measuring standard that we look at very closely. I love the players who don't quit and will do anything within my power to help out when the chips are down. Your son is determined, I know that already. I admire a player who fights for his place and doesn't surrender when adversity comes along. It's really easy to just walk away and say, "I'm done", instead of putting up the good fight. Seems like your son has this same fight I have!
I say good for him
About the hitting: One thing that will help keep bat in the hitting zone longer for those that are too quick with arms and hands up and through the zone is let the ball travel deep in the hitting zone and develop initial trigger to be quick but at the same time concentrate on keeping barrel inside of ball. You want to be short to the ball and long in the finish which will also help hitter stay in the hitting zone longer. These are the same things Jim Thrift as well as other more experienced professional hitters worked with me on for countless hours before I got a taste of that magic! Sweetest taste in the world as a hitter to see success from hard work as I'm sure J.A. evidently has already experienced initial success. I wish him the best and will continue to keep up with him.
Peace, Shep
That is an excellent post and glad to hear that the younger A benefited from the professional level instruction and just maybe when he is 100% and totally free of injury bug, the magic shall return
Earlier this season in FL STATE LEAGUE, I actually went to see your son J.A., who I already knew about from our board here and he was on the disabled list so I didn't get to see him play for Dunedin in Vero even though one of his teammates in the dugout told me he was there before the game. I was there for several of these games in that series.I have been keeping up with your son and wish him a quick return back here so I can meet him and scout him. Sometimes, a player is faced with aggrevating conditions and adversity, as you well know by now, that will eventually pass and how the player handles and responds to that situation is a high measuring standard that we look at very closely. I love the players who don't quit and will do anything within my power to help out when the chips are down. Your son is determined, I know that already. I admire a player who fights for his place and doesn't surrender when adversity comes along. It's really easy to just walk away and say, "I'm done", instead of putting up the good fight. Seems like your son has this same fight I have!
I say good for him
About the hitting: One thing that will help keep bat in the hitting zone longer for those that are too quick with arms and hands up and through the zone is let the ball travel deep in the hitting zone and develop initial trigger to be quick but at the same time concentrate on keeping barrel inside of ball. You want to be short to the ball and long in the finish which will also help hitter stay in the hitting zone longer. These are the same things Jim Thrift as well as other more experienced professional hitters worked with me on for countless hours before I got a taste of that magic!
Sweetest taste in the world as a hitter to see success from hard work as I'm sure J.A. evidently has already experienced initial success. I wish him the best and will continue to keep up with him.Peace, Shep
Shep,
Thanks for the kind words. They are very much appreciated.
Funny story on hitting at the professional level. Jason raves about Merv Rettenmund. Jason does see the ball long/deep into the hitting zone. Merv teased him like crazy about it and tried to get him to adjust to hit the ball more out in front to generate more power.
It was an adjustment he really struggled with and Rettenmund finally relented and reassured him he could hit at all levels of professional ball but would be a gap hitter only. When he asked Jason what hitting instructor taught him to see the ball so long, he said..."my Dad." Rettenmund suggested a "new Dad."
If I recall right, you saw some Dunedin BJays put on quite a hitting display for the entire series in Vero Beach????
Thanks for the kind words. They are very much appreciated.
Funny story on hitting at the professional level. Jason raves about Merv Rettenmund. Jason does see the ball long/deep into the hitting zone. Merv teased him like crazy about it and tried to get him to adjust to hit the ball more out in front to generate more power.
It was an adjustment he really struggled with and Rettenmund finally relented and reassured him he could hit at all levels of professional ball but would be a gap hitter only. When he asked Jason what hitting instructor taught him to see the ball so long, he said..."my Dad." Rettenmund suggested a "new Dad."
If I recall right, you saw some Dunedin BJays put on quite a hitting display for the entire series in Vero Beach????
Infielddad,
You're right I had to go back and look in my reports on that series but I was there for Ryan Patterson's unbelievable game he had with three HRs and nine RBIs. In fact, if you can believe this, he was also 6 for 6! WOW!!! I've been to so many games since then including four pro leagues until I had almost forgotten! What a series the BJays had against Vero in early May.
Very impressive indeed! Those hitting instructors must really be good in the Blue Jays system and sorry they took your job infield dad Peace, Shep
Upon further review I also see Matthews had six hits in that game as well and is currently hitting over .300 as of today
You're right
I had to go back and look in my reports on that series but I was there for Ryan Patterson's unbelievable game he had with three HRs and nine RBIs. In fact, if you can believe this, he was also 6 for 6! WOW!!! I've been to so many games since then including four pro leagues until I had almost forgotten! What a series the BJays had against Vero in early May.Very impressive indeed! Those hitting instructors must really be good in the Blue Jays system and sorry they took your job infield dad
Peace, ShepUpon further review I also see Matthews had six hits in that game as well and is currently hitting over .300 as of today
[the main reason he went to college turing down 1st round money out of high school was to avoid minor league baseball.]
This might be a dumb question...but this quote puzzles me. I thought that ALL players had to go through the minor league baseball experience..regardless of college experience. Even if you're a first round type..doesn't the player have to start in minor league and work their way up?
This might be a dumb question...but this quote puzzles me. I thought that ALL players had to go through the minor league baseball experience..regardless of college experience. Even if you're a first round type..doesn't the player have to start in minor league and work their way up?
Newcomer,
They don't HAVE to, but 99.9% do. David Clyde came straight out of HS in 1973 or 74 and pitched for the Texas Rangers.
I believe Pete Incaviglia never played in the minors, unless it was after he finished as a big leaguer and was trying to get back.
It seems like Bob Horner was another one who never played in the minor leagues.
Like I said, nobody has to play in the minors, but there are very few who have gone straight to the big leagues. This year, Andrew Miller pitched in the College World Series in June and was in the big leagues in August or September with the Tigers.
My son's HS coach was an assistant coach at The University of Alabama the last 6 years, until taking the job here, and he told me that Andrew Miller was the BY FAR the best college pitcher he saw in his 6 years as a college coach. I thought that was pretty interesting.
Hope this helps you understands a little better!
Happy New Year!
They don't HAVE to, but 99.9% do. David Clyde came straight out of HS in 1973 or 74 and pitched for the Texas Rangers.
I believe Pete Incaviglia never played in the minors, unless it was after he finished as a big leaguer and was trying to get back.
It seems like Bob Horner was another one who never played in the minor leagues.
Like I said, nobody has to play in the minors, but there are very few who have gone straight to the big leagues. This year, Andrew Miller pitched in the College World Series in June and was in the big leagues in August or September with the Tigers.
My son's HS coach was an assistant coach at The University of Alabama the last 6 years, until taking the job here, and he told me that Andrew Miller was the BY FAR the best college pitcher he saw in his 6 years as a college coach. I thought that was pretty interesting.
Hope this helps you understands a little better!
Happy New Year!
I asked a question similar to this a long time ago and bbscout told me that since 1968, when the current draft system implemented, that only about 20 players have gone directly from high school to the major league.
Kinda sobering, ain't it?
Kinda sobering, ain't it?
quote:Originally posted by FormerObserver:
I asked a question similar to this a long time ago and bbscout told me that since 1968, when the current draft system implemented, that only about 20 players have gone directly from high school to the major league.
Kinda sobering, ain't it?
Yes sir, it is!
FO- You're correct, only 20 total, but not just from high school. There has been 20 players gone straight to the majors after being drafted. Only four of those 20 were from high school.
After some research, here are the names:
1. 1967- Mike Adamson, South Carolina
2. 1969- Steve Dunning, Stanford
3. 1971- Burt Hooton, Texas
4. 1971- Rob Ellis, Michigan State
5. 1971- Pete Broberg, Dartmouth
6. 1972- Dave Roberts, Oregon
7. 1973- Dick Ruthven, Fresno State
8. 1973- Eddie Bane, Arizona State
9. 1973- Dave Winfield, Minnesota
10. 1973- David Clyde, Westchester HS (TX)
11. 1978- Mike Morgan, Valley HS (NV)
12. 1978- Brian Milner, Southwest HS (TX)
13. 1978- Bob Horner, Arizona State
14. 1978- Tom Conroy, Gateway HS (PA)
15. 1985- Pete Incaviglia, Oklahoma State
16. 1988- Jim Abbott, Michigan
17. 1989- John Olerud, Washington State
18. 1993- Darren Dreifort, Wichita State
19. 1995- Ariel Prieto, Fajrado University (Cuba)
20. 2000- Xavier Nady, Cal-State Berkeley
After some research, here are the names:
1. 1967- Mike Adamson, South Carolina
2. 1969- Steve Dunning, Stanford
3. 1971- Burt Hooton, Texas
4. 1971- Rob Ellis, Michigan State
5. 1971- Pete Broberg, Dartmouth
6. 1972- Dave Roberts, Oregon
7. 1973- Dick Ruthven, Fresno State
8. 1973- Eddie Bane, Arizona State
9. 1973- Dave Winfield, Minnesota
10. 1973- David Clyde, Westchester HS (TX)
11. 1978- Mike Morgan, Valley HS (NV)
12. 1978- Brian Milner, Southwest HS (TX)
13. 1978- Bob Horner, Arizona State
14. 1978- Tom Conroy, Gateway HS (PA)
15. 1985- Pete Incaviglia, Oklahoma State
16. 1988- Jim Abbott, Michigan
17. 1989- John Olerud, Washington State
18. 1993- Darren Dreifort, Wichita State
19. 1995- Ariel Prieto, Fajrado University (Cuba)
20. 2000- Xavier Nady, Cal-State Berkeley
Cal-State Berkley? Aren't Californians touchy about the Cal-State/ U Cal thing? There were at least as many spending a season or less in the minors. Houston Street and ARod come to (my little) mind.
"Cal-State Berkeley" is a no-no!
Its the University of California at Berkeley...and its the 'original' University of California.
Just an FYI. There is a 3-tiered college system here in California. The UC's, the States and the JC's. The UC's are the toughest to gain admission too. I know at least one kid who was denied admission to UC-Berkeley and UCLA but granted admission at Stanford. Point is, its VERY competitive and a lot of "good" students leave the state to ASU, UofA, OSU and UofO to get the "full" college experience with competitive football teams and all of that.
Attending a JC and doing well for 2 years guarantees your admission to a UC and its an option many families choose with limited means...as the JC's are very inexpensive.
And BTW, San Jose State (a state school) supplies more engineers to Silicon Valley than any other school in the world. They also have significantly more recruiters visit their campus than any other school I could find. It is a VERY well regarded undergraduate engineering school.
You probably didn't care about all of that, but now you know.
Its the University of California at Berkeley...and its the 'original' University of California.
Just an FYI. There is a 3-tiered college system here in California. The UC's, the States and the JC's. The UC's are the toughest to gain admission too. I know at least one kid who was denied admission to UC-Berkeley and UCLA but granted admission at Stanford. Point is, its VERY competitive and a lot of "good" students leave the state to ASU, UofA, OSU and UofO to get the "full" college experience with competitive football teams and all of that.
Attending a JC and doing well for 2 years guarantees your admission to a UC and its an option many families choose with limited means...as the JC's are very inexpensive.
And BTW, San Jose State (a state school) supplies more engineers to Silicon Valley than any other school in the world. They also have significantly more recruiters visit their campus than any other school I could find. It is a VERY well regarded undergraduate engineering school.
You probably didn't care about all of that, but now you know.
My bad! lol
MLB website has it listed as "Cal Berkeley" and there was another reference to Fullerton, so I accidentally made it Cal St.
correction:
20. 2000- Xavier Nady, UC Berkeley
MLB website has it listed as "Cal Berkeley" and there was another reference to Fullerton, so I accidentally made it Cal St.
correction:
20. 2000- Xavier Nady, UC Berkeley
I know I bring him up all the time but my favorite young guy in the majors story is Bob Feller. He started his first major league game when he was still in 11th grade in high school and struck out 15 batters in his debut. He returned to high school after that season to complete his senior year and then continued with his stellar HOF career - shortened by four years of military service during the prime of his career. He was the epitome of the term "phenom" for baseball imho. I wonder if there will ever be another like him. For me, Babe Ruth will always be the greatest player but Feller is right up there with him imho.
With respect to Berkely, I wonder if there may be some political corretness at play. Berkely was a symbol for the radical 60's and the name itself still implies radicalism imo. It seems the term Cal is much more heavily promoted than the the city upon which it stands.
With respect to Berkely, I wonder if there may be some political corretness at play. Berkely was a symbol for the radical 60's and the name itself still implies radicalism imo. It seems the term Cal is much more heavily promoted than the the city upon which it stands.
Since it was the 'original' University of California...it has long gone by the name "Cal." I don't think it has anything to do with the town. The university itself is generally considered very liberal as well and I don't think they run from that reputation at all.
Did you know?....that the UCLA fight song (at least the music) is the same as the Cal fight song...but played slightly differently. Listen next time they play on TV.
UCLA introduced a "new" fight song in the late 80's/early 90's...but I don't hear it played nearly as much as the "University of California" one.
Did you know?....that the UCLA fight song (at least the music) is the same as the Cal fight song...but played slightly differently. Listen next time they play on TV.
UCLA introduced a "new" fight song in the late 80's/early 90's...but I don't hear it played nearly as much as the "University of California" one.
Nice job there, JH. I guessed on the 20 and the 1968, but I had seen that list somewhere, probably in the lost long ago archives.
But, I didn't know that only FOUR were out of high school.
Makes going to school look interesting, doesn't it?
But, I didn't know that only FOUR were out of high school.
Makes going to school look interesting, doesn't it?
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
I know I bring him up all the time but my favorite young guy in the majors story is Bob Feller. He started his first major league game when he was still in 11th grade in high school and struck out 15 batters in his debut. He returned to high school after that season to complete his senior year and then continued with his stellar HOF career - shortened by four years of military service during the prime of his career. He was the epitome of the term "phenom" for baseball imho.
I'm wondering what his high school coach thought about Bob skipping his senior season...
I went to the Bob Feller museum in Van Meter Iowa this year, I was surprised to hear that his 2 best seasons were the 1 before the went to war and the 1 after he came back. Imagine how many wins and strikeouts he would have if he had those 4 years back.
Rapid Rob!!!
[/IMG]
[/IMG]quote:Imagine how many wins and strikeouts he would have if he had those 4 years back.
Indeed spinedoc
I am guessing about 100 more wins and at least 1000 more strikeouts.its - you are the undisputed king of the autographed memorabillia collection
cd - 
I got a whole bunch of Yankees too. But most were made out to my younger brother - because I used to refuse them - being an avid Mets fan. LOL
(I kid you not - a few times - my dad freaked out because I showed a hint of disdain for the Yankees - in person LOL).
The only ones I ever willingly got were Bobby Richardson, Yogi Berra, Willie Randolph, Joe Pepitone, Dave Winfield and Derek Jeter.
P.S. - You should see my football and hockey collection!
Have a great New Year.
I got a whole bunch of Yankees too. But most were made out to my younger brother - because I used to refuse them - being an avid Mets fan. LOL
(I kid you not - a few times - my dad freaked out because I showed a hint of disdain for the Yankees - in person LOL).
The only ones I ever willingly got were Bobby Richardson, Yogi Berra, Willie Randolph, Joe Pepitone, Dave Winfield and Derek Jeter.
P.S. - You should see my football and hockey collection!
Have a great New Year.
I work in Bellevue NE, and I know that Bob Gibson lives about 5 blocks from my office, but it is kind of understood to leave him alone. Too many people have showed up at his door with 3 balls for him to sign for their "kids"
quote:Originally posted by spinedoc:
I work in Bellevue NE, and I know that Bob Gibson lives about 5 blocks from my office, but it is kind of understood to leave him alone. Too many people have showed up at his door with 3 balls for him to sign for their "kids"
About 5 years ago he cornered some guy who cut him off in traffic and beat him up. I'd leave him along too.
quote:Originally posted by theEH: This Thread did truely deserve Golden Thread Status.
As a parent are whole goal was to see how far baseball could take are Son.
And to take advantage of everything that the sport had to Offer.
It is a Personel Decision that a Young Drafted player need's to think about before they go one way are the other(College vs. Pro).
When do you as a Player Feel you have the best chance of Succeeding in Pro Ball. After HS are After College.
I believe that if it is meant to be it will happen one way are another. EH
**** this is a great thread except for the one derailment****about BG
What criteria, set of circumstances would lead you to guide your son to sign out of high school, or concur with his decision to sign and forego college baseball ? When I mean "you", I mean in your individual experience or potential one, not a laundry list of pro/con factors.
"What criteria, set of circumstances would lead you to guide your son to sign out of high school, or concur with his decision to sign and forego college baseball ? When I mean "you", I mean in your individual experience or potential one, not a laundry list of pro/con factors."
We are possibly facing this choice too. Would appreciate hearing how others have counseled their sons with the choice if it presented itself. Our son has made a verbal committment with a good program/good school but has pro-ball as his goal.
We are possibly facing this choice too. Would appreciate hearing how others have counseled their sons with the choice if it presented itself. Our son has made a verbal committment with a good program/good school but has pro-ball as his goal.
From someone who went thru this many years ago. At first I was settled in to the idea of heading to college - a top program. As Spring baseball season started the hype began with all the Pro guys, coming to games, practice, calling on the phone. It was always my goal to play pro too while it was my parents goal to send me off to school. I started to think go pro and forego college after a good spring. When draft day came and my name was not called as high as I hoped, that had to have been the biggest "downer" day of my life. It takes the wind out of your sail when you get your mind set for something that doesn't happen.
My advise is to be aware that it may happen to your son and talk about all the possibilities that "might" happen prior to draft day. The bottom line, it is impossible to guess what might happen as far as the draft and it could lead to some big dissapointment that you will need to deal with later.
Brn2hit - great post.
My advise is to be aware that it may happen to your son and talk about all the possibilities that "might" happen prior to draft day. The bottom line, it is impossible to guess what might happen as far as the draft and it could lead to some big dissapointment that you will need to deal with later.
Brn2hit - great post.
OS8
Well my son made the decision.
But it was the right decision for him.
I think the Main reason for going to D1 college rather then Juco/Minor league's DNF.
Is the fact that my son was not physically or mentally ready for the rigger's of pro ball.
And if he was ever going to get a college education?
He's at the right school for him.
The support factor was huge in his decision.
EH
quote:What criteria, set of circumstances would lead you to guide your son to sign out of high school, or concur with his decision to sign and forego college baseball ? When I mean "you", I mean in your individual experience or potential one, not a laundry list of pro/con factors.
Well my son made the decision.
But it was the right decision for him.
I think the Main reason for going to D1 college rather then Juco/Minor league's DNF.
Is the fact that my son was not physically or mentally ready for the rigger's of pro ball.
And if he was ever going to get a college education?
He's at the right school for him.
The support factor was huge in his decision.
EH
quote:What criteria, set of circumstances would lead you to guide your son to sign out of high school
His physical stature and mental state(Maturity).
Would guide me?
He's a late bloomer and could use the extra time to get stronger both Mentally and Physically?
I could give you a list of individual concerns I had and concerns my son had about turning pro out of high school but I think most players and parents have the same concerns. Some people address those concerns and find a solution and some chose to ignore them (not good) and suffer the consequences. Like most players, those concerns in my son's case would have been coped with had the money been right. We discussed “what ifs” at length before and after he was drafted. I kept asking myself four questions over and over and weighing the pros and cons:
1. “What does HE stand to lose if he goes to college?”
2. “What does HE stand to gain if he goes to college?”
3. “What does HE stand to lose if he turns pro out of high school?”
4. “What does HE stand to gain if he turns pro out of high school?”
If you ask yourself those questions I think you will be better able to advise your son. He may ignore your advice but that's another topic!
Fungo
1. “What does HE stand to lose if he goes to college?”
2. “What does HE stand to gain if he goes to college?”
3. “What does HE stand to lose if he turns pro out of high school?”
4. “What does HE stand to gain if he turns pro out of high school?”
If you ask yourself those questions I think you will be better able to advise your son. He may ignore your advice but that's another topic!
Fungo
My son went pro out of high school, (it is alot like throwing them in the deep end to teach them how to swim) It was what he wanted to do and our family supports his decision. His father was "drafted" out of high school and they sent him to Vietnam, that kind of put things in perspective.
With the elimination of the draft and follow rule, this years draft should be much different than drafts of the past. You're either in...or out, especially HS fence-sitters who have their eyes set toward the Major Leagues. What's more important to the player is even a better question to ask this year. Pro or College?
Longtime Player and now Longtime Observer
Longtime Player and now Longtime Observer
quote:PopTime, with all due respect, I wonder how much you know about life in the minor leagues. Quite clearly my comments were not directed toward those players who are set from the time they sign their contract and receive the draft bonus. It focused, as Dad04 confirmed, on the other 90% of those in minor leauge baseball. Playing professional baseball, even in the minors, is the dream of so many. What you, at some point, find out is what you thought of as a game is really a business. The business is both physically and mentally demanding as well mentally and emotionally exhausting. Minor league players are not protected the collective bargainning agreement. Again, with all due respect, confusing the "riches" of those at the major league level with the process in the minor leagues that "might" get a player to that level isn't reality, but it might be a bit "silly."
I wonder which jobs you think are MUCH worse. Through A ball, the minor league players get paid either $1,150 or $1,350 per month. They play 29 days per month. With bus travel, which is extensive, they average a 12 hour work day. That ends up around $4.50 per hour for their work. From that, they pay room/board etc to live, they pay the locker room attendant, fines, etc. What is a job that, just from a pay perspective, is MUCH worse than that?
Sounds like a high school teacher who coaches baseball - the ones who take it seriuosly and not the ones who use it for a check.
I went way back in time to get this post - I think it is the second one from this topic. I just started reading it today.
I have a daughter and son in law who are teachers that also coach and a son in the minors ... the 2 jobs are nothing alike.
I don't know if any one has mentioned that players don't get paid during spring training, instructional league or winter work outs.. that takes up about 3 1/2 mos. so their only paid for 5 1/2 mos.
Players have the choice and they are doing what theywant to do.. But its not a glamorous life style.
The posters who have sons in the minors are only trying to give the other members a realistic idea what life is like in the minors.
I don't know if any one has mentioned that players don't get paid during spring training, instructional league or winter work outs.. that takes up about 3 1/2 mos. so their only paid for 5 1/2 mos.
Players have the choice and they are doing what theywant to do.. But its not a glamorous life style.
The posters who have sons in the minors are only trying to give the other members a realistic idea what life is like in the minors.
Let's see....
I leave my house at 7:30 am everyday - teach six classes and during my "free" period I coach my players in a PE class.
I get out of school at 2:45 and have about 15 minutes before practice / game.
If it's practice I get done by 5:30 and get home around 7 if I am lucky - I have to make sure my field is in good shape before I leave and make sure all my players have rides before I leave. Nothing like the parent who won't pick their kid up after practice because they have something else to do and never consider to have another plan ready for their kid.
If we have a game at home I get to the field by 3:15 for batting practice and usually throw it. While they are stretching I then have to chalk the field and get everthing ready. Start the game at 5:00 and it's over by 7:30 usually. Then I have to stay for the JV game. It's over at 9:00ish and once again I have to make sure the field is ready for the next day. I get home between 10:00 - 10:30.
If it is an away game we leave the school at 3:00 and drive at least an hour to our closest game - by the way I am driving the bus (for free). We get to the field by 4:00 and have an hour to warm up and start at 5:00. Same thing with the JV game. I have to stop somewhere and feed the guys (and yes some of them don't have money so I pay for their meal too). We get to the school around 10:00 and once again I have to wait on kids to get a ride. If I get home at 11:00 I am VERY lucky.
Then I get to get up and do it again the next day.
Other things to consider...
Teachers happen to be one of the lowest paid professions there are and baseball coaches happen to be one of the lowest paid coaches in schools. I work 185 days during the school year and that is what I am paid for. So those summer months well the crazy thing is I am not paid for them.
I was actually paid more to be an asst. football coach than to be head baseball coach - figure that one out.
I have to make sure we have enough money for our sport and organize the fundraisers and get the guys to do them.
I have to deal with parents of kids who think they happen to be better than what they really are. In the best of times they drag my name through the mud because "I don't know what I am doing" - although I have more district champions in 7 years than the other coaches had in 33 years.
In the fall I deal with scheduling and off season workouts. I have to make contact with college coaches to try and get my guys into school - yes I have some really good players who can play college ball. In 7 years I have sent 8 guys to college to play.
What I took from your post - please correct me if I am wrong - if you love baseball and CHOOSE it to be what you spend your life doing you HAVE to make sacrifices and put up with a lot of stuff. I knew going in how much work I would have to do and how little I would be paid. I don't complain and I hope my previous post isn't taken that way. I was going with the angle that if you love BASEBALL the game you have to make those sacrifices and put up with that stuff. I was just trying to sympathize.
Oh by the way - about the "business" side of coaching high school baseball. If I don't win then I get "relieved" of my coaching duties.
I wonder if that is a euphanism for getting fired??
I leave my house at 7:30 am everyday - teach six classes and during my "free" period I coach my players in a PE class.
I get out of school at 2:45 and have about 15 minutes before practice / game.
If it's practice I get done by 5:30 and get home around 7 if I am lucky - I have to make sure my field is in good shape before I leave and make sure all my players have rides before I leave. Nothing like the parent who won't pick their kid up after practice because they have something else to do and never consider to have another plan ready for their kid.
If we have a game at home I get to the field by 3:15 for batting practice and usually throw it. While they are stretching I then have to chalk the field and get everthing ready. Start the game at 5:00 and it's over by 7:30 usually. Then I have to stay for the JV game. It's over at 9:00ish and once again I have to make sure the field is ready for the next day. I get home between 10:00 - 10:30.
If it is an away game we leave the school at 3:00 and drive at least an hour to our closest game - by the way I am driving the bus (for free). We get to the field by 4:00 and have an hour to warm up and start at 5:00. Same thing with the JV game. I have to stop somewhere and feed the guys (and yes some of them don't have money so I pay for their meal too). We get to the school around 10:00 and once again I have to wait on kids to get a ride. If I get home at 11:00 I am VERY lucky.
Then I get to get up and do it again the next day.
Other things to consider...
Teachers happen to be one of the lowest paid professions there are and baseball coaches happen to be one of the lowest paid coaches in schools. I work 185 days during the school year and that is what I am paid for. So those summer months well the crazy thing is I am not paid for them.
I was actually paid more to be an asst. football coach than to be head baseball coach - figure that one out.
I have to make sure we have enough money for our sport and organize the fundraisers and get the guys to do them.
I have to deal with parents of kids who think they happen to be better than what they really are. In the best of times they drag my name through the mud because "I don't know what I am doing" - although I have more district champions in 7 years than the other coaches had in 33 years.
In the fall I deal with scheduling and off season workouts. I have to make contact with college coaches to try and get my guys into school - yes I have some really good players who can play college ball. In 7 years I have sent 8 guys to college to play.
What I took from your post - please correct me if I am wrong - if you love baseball and CHOOSE it to be what you spend your life doing you HAVE to make sacrifices and put up with a lot of stuff. I knew going in how much work I would have to do and how little I would be paid. I don't complain and I hope my previous post isn't taken that way. I was going with the angle that if you love BASEBALL the game you have to make those sacrifices and put up with that stuff. I was just trying to sympathize.
Oh by the way - about the "business" side of coaching high school baseball. If I don't win then I get "relieved" of my coaching duties.
I wonder if that is a euphanism for getting fired??
Also, if you LOVE the game of baseball you accept the bad with the good. You don't do it because someone "makes it fun". Trust me it's not fun working that hard - I don't go out and celebrate the fact I will spend a couple of hours with a rake in my hand. I do it because the two hours I spend in practice or game is awesome. It drives me to do what I do - that is passion. I have fun in a difficult situation because I LOVE baseball and will do whatever it takes to be in the game. I know if I got the opportunity to play minor league baseball that is what would drive me - LOVE of baseball. I would have "fun" becuase I was given the opportunity to catch a groundball or take batting practice and then play a game.
I was lucky enough to play college baseball and I really wasn't that good. I made the team because I worked my butt off in practice and the offseason. At any time I could have been cut from the team so I had that hanging over my head. I chose to put myself in that position because I LOVE the game of baseball. Did I get paid? No - I played for free because I didn't get any scholarship money. Did I enjoy working out that hard and that long? No but the fact I got to spend time playing baseball was worth it - once again I chose to do this because I LOVE the game.
The point I am trying to make is that if you choose baseball as your life you are going to work your butt off and be a second class sport. Only major leaguers "have it good". Everyone below major leaguers face hardship and obstacles. They still do it because they LOVE the game. How much you work, how little you get paid or whether someone can / will take the game away from you is something you have to do because you LOVE the game and want to be there. Minor leaguers don't have a monopoly on hardships and LOVE for the game - if you play / coach this game you will have it tough in some sort of way.
If your daughter and son in law don't have to go through what I go through to coach baseball tell to never leave that school. Most schools - especially in a rural area - go through what I go through in order to coach baseball. If they don't they are VERY lucky and should not leave - then again if they don't win they will probably get fired.
I wish I could trade places with any minor leaguer because as much as I LOVE coaching I want to play the game even more. I hate seeing kids and young men in college and the minors take their talent for granted and not enjoy being on the field. If you don't love the game then don't play it because the hard work that goes with it is not worth it. That goes with anything you do. If it's worth having and doing you MUST work for it. Why do you think people who are millionaires from creating a business and seeing it grow keep their money more than people who win a lottery who are usually broke after a couple of years? It has to do with hard work - they achieved success from putting up with a lot of stuff. Same with baseball players - if they want to be "millionaires" they have to put up with the stuff that is hard to do.
I know I am probably rambling in what I have just put but as soon as I read both of your responses there were a million things that went through my head. I am glad you have sons who play minor leage ball - I would LOVE to do what they are doing but I am not good enough. But that doesn't mean I have it easy because I don't play minor league baseball. Get off your high horse and realize everyone has to work hard to achieve something.
I was lucky enough to play college baseball and I really wasn't that good. I made the team because I worked my butt off in practice and the offseason. At any time I could have been cut from the team so I had that hanging over my head. I chose to put myself in that position because I LOVE the game of baseball. Did I get paid? No - I played for free because I didn't get any scholarship money. Did I enjoy working out that hard and that long? No but the fact I got to spend time playing baseball was worth it - once again I chose to do this because I LOVE the game.
The point I am trying to make is that if you choose baseball as your life you are going to work your butt off and be a second class sport. Only major leaguers "have it good". Everyone below major leaguers face hardship and obstacles. They still do it because they LOVE the game. How much you work, how little you get paid or whether someone can / will take the game away from you is something you have to do because you LOVE the game and want to be there. Minor leaguers don't have a monopoly on hardships and LOVE for the game - if you play / coach this game you will have it tough in some sort of way.
If your daughter and son in law don't have to go through what I go through to coach baseball tell to never leave that school. Most schools - especially in a rural area - go through what I go through in order to coach baseball. If they don't they are VERY lucky and should not leave - then again if they don't win they will probably get fired.
I wish I could trade places with any minor leaguer because as much as I LOVE coaching I want to play the game even more. I hate seeing kids and young men in college and the minors take their talent for granted and not enjoy being on the field. If you don't love the game then don't play it because the hard work that goes with it is not worth it. That goes with anything you do. If it's worth having and doing you MUST work for it. Why do you think people who are millionaires from creating a business and seeing it grow keep their money more than people who win a lottery who are usually broke after a couple of years? It has to do with hard work - they achieved success from putting up with a lot of stuff. Same with baseball players - if they want to be "millionaires" they have to put up with the stuff that is hard to do.
I know I am probably rambling in what I have just put but as soon as I read both of your responses there were a million things that went through my head. I am glad you have sons who play minor leage ball - I would LOVE to do what they are doing but I am not good enough. But that doesn't mean I have it easy because I don't play minor league baseball. Get off your high horse and realize everyone has to work hard to achieve something.
"I am glad you have sons who play minor leage ball - I would LOVE to do what they are doing but I am not good enough. But that doesn't mean I have it easy because I don't play minor league baseball. Get off your high horse and realize everyone has to work hard to achieve something."
Coach, sorry you were offended by my comments describing some of the experiences about the business side of life in the minor leagues. Sounds like you work very hard and love the game a lot. My efforts to describe that life were not meant, in anyway, to comment on the devotion of others in the path they have chosen for their life. Good luck to you.
Coach, sorry you were offended by my comments describing some of the experiences about the business side of life in the minor leagues. Sounds like you work very hard and love the game a lot. My efforts to describe that life were not meant, in anyway, to comment on the devotion of others in the path they have chosen for their life. Good luck to you.
Just re-read most of this thread and it is always interesting to get the different perspectives, even tho I have read them before.
During a conversation with our son the other day from Spring Training, he talked about how many of the other players in his draft year were no longer around, whether moved up, traded, or released. I know that every time one of his 'draft mates' or teammates is released, he feels a sadness for them because he knows how hard everybody works out there. He has real compassion for them, especially knowing that it could be him, but for the grace of God. And I think sometimes the reality of releases hangs over their heads more than the financial struggles or the travel (he is looking at 12-16 hour trips this coming season if he ends up in Alabama).
Still, I am sure he wouldn't change anything for the world and fortunately he is supported emotionally by a wonderful wife who also endures some sacrifices for him so that he can follow his dreams. I admire all these young men who are working so hard, just as I admire any young adult who is trying to make something of their lives whether in college or at a 'regular' job or the military. And I am thankful that we live in a country where our young people are free to make those decisions for themselves.
Life is good, isn't it?
During a conversation with our son the other day from Spring Training, he talked about how many of the other players in his draft year were no longer around, whether moved up, traded, or released. I know that every time one of his 'draft mates' or teammates is released, he feels a sadness for them because he knows how hard everybody works out there. He has real compassion for them, especially knowing that it could be him, but for the grace of God. And I think sometimes the reality of releases hangs over their heads more than the financial struggles or the travel (he is looking at 12-16 hour trips this coming season if he ends up in Alabama).
Still, I am sure he wouldn't change anything for the world and fortunately he is supported emotionally by a wonderful wife who also endures some sacrifices for him so that he can follow his dreams. I admire all these young men who are working so hard, just as I admire any young adult who is trying to make something of their lives whether in college or at a 'regular' job or the military. And I am thankful that we live in a country where our young people are free to make those decisions for themselves.
Life is good, isn't it?