Every situation is unique.
Like I had said, every other school in our conference has modified teams.
We also have 2 teachers in the middle school, both mid to late 20's, who played D3. It doesn't guarantee success, but it would be a great start.
In some ways I feel it is a wasted opportunity.
quote:WHO CODDLES PARENTS?----LILE IT OR NOT THEY HEAR WHAT THEY NEED TO HEAR FROM ME
TRhit
ha
I just read this entire thread. Now I have a Popsicle Headache!!
quote:Originally posted by Eephus:quote:WHO CODDLES PARENTS?----LIkE IT OR NOT THEY HEAR WHAT THEY NEED TO HEAR FROM ME
TRhit
ha
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www.iyellalot-mrhit.blahblahblahspot.com
...ya' know I luv ya' TR!
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- "THE PARENTS TODAY DO HEAR FROM ME ENOUGH!!!!!"
www.iyellalot-mrhit.blahblahblahspot.com
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quote:High School is soon enough for reality.
So then the high school coach is the bad guy.
Just want to add that there is a HUGE difference between a no cut policy combined with an equal playing time rule and a no cut policy with an earned playing time rule. If everyone stays on the team - gets to work out - play in scrimmages - and learn rules and strategy that is one thing and I can agree with that. However, where everyone gets equal playing time regardless of skill (and sometimes safety)that is a different story. I have a hard time understanding that philosophy.
This is some amazing arrogance. "need to hear from you". I post my thoughts, opinions and observations. I would never presume to tell anyone that they NEED to hear anything I say. I guess I don't presume myself or anything I say to be so critically important is must be heard. Take it leave it like it hate it agree or disagree be ****ed off or happy about it but you don't NEED to hear it.quote:Originally posted by TRhit:quote:Originally posted by Eephus:quote:WHO CODDLES PARENTS?----LIkE IT OR NOT THEY HEAR WHAT THEY NEED TO HEAR FROM ME
TRhit
ha
quote:HUGE difference between a no cut policy combined with an equal playing time rule
I hope we are not talking about High school here.
I have two sons, one at each end of the spectrum.
My older son matured quickly and being a December baby was almost a year older than some in his class. He is a really good athlete and all the coaches wanted him to be on the team.
My youngest son is the opposite. An August baby and a slower developer, he is almost a year younger that some in his class. He's in 8th grade but his abilities are more in line with a 7th grader. He's going to be taller than my first son. He is doing volleyball right now and not getting much playing time.... he got cut from basketball.
I have no worried for my first son but I am afraid that my second son might get discouraged from trying sports because of being cut/lack of playing time. So when he does develop it may be too late.
For my first son we left LL and found a good baseball academy to play for. Middle school is not the place to be cut just because some parent/coach wants to win totally meaningless 8th grade games.
So, now I'll be taking him to a sports performance gym so maybe he will become more athletic and maybe not give up on sports before he starts to develop.
My older son matured quickly and being a December baby was almost a year older than some in his class. He is a really good athlete and all the coaches wanted him to be on the team.
My youngest son is the opposite. An August baby and a slower developer, he is almost a year younger that some in his class. He's in 8th grade but his abilities are more in line with a 7th grader. He's going to be taller than my first son. He is doing volleyball right now and not getting much playing time.... he got cut from basketball.
I have no worried for my first son but I am afraid that my second son might get discouraged from trying sports because of being cut/lack of playing time. So when he does develop it may be too late.
For my first son we left LL and found a good baseball academy to play for. Middle school is not the place to be cut just because some parent/coach wants to win totally meaningless 8th grade games.
So, now I'll be taking him to a sports performance gym so maybe he will become more athletic and maybe not give up on sports before he starts to develop.
Some great points made. From my standpoint, my 2015 did not make his middle school team as 7th grader. I used it as a teaching moment. I told him either quit or work harder. What else could he do? He was small at that time, about 5'4". Two years later he is 5'11" and on 9th grade team. Varsity coach pulled him to the side after our last game and told him that he was probably going to pulled up to varsity once 9th grade season is over. My advice to all is put your head down and plow ahead. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't do something. That's one of my biggest pet peeves, " I can't". I told son that if he does get asked to move up, don't be content with just being there. Go out and try to earn a spot. By the way I am a dentist and no they don't cull us in middle school.
Just because a kid does not make a middle school team does not mean there are no other chances for him to play. Go to LL or the Y to play. There are always dads out there willing to make a travel team even if it's with kids who have very limited skills. I say have try-outs take the best that are there and the others can still try out in HS if they play elsewhere and improve. We had a son play on team of 20, no cuts and it was awful. The more talented players did not get the attention because the coach was too worried about making it fair for everyone. The kids who had limited talents got bored and didn't bother trying out next yr. They did not have love of game and were not willing to put time/effort into it. I felt like we wasted a yr on them when others could have received more experience.
By not cutting the players it gives the players who physically develop at a later age to compete. Many times the small 9th grader who would have been cut grows up to be the stud ball player where the physically bigger 9th grade stud ends up quiting or never gets much better. Just think of all of the young men who would have been taken out of the game because they matured at a slower rate(thier normal rate). The reality is that the vast majority of high school ball players will never have the chance to play beyond high school. Why rush that process for the under developed ball player who has potential.
Now for the ballplayer who really does not have the basic skills, I can understand that after a careful evaluation by the coach during tryouts it may make sense to cut that ball player. However, for the skilled ball player who is just undersized, I think it may be better to give him the opportunity to develop.[/QUOTE]
The above applies to my son I believe. He is a freshman and only 5'2" (140 pounds) and looks like a midgit compared to his teammates. He made his team and is starting 2nd baseman on the Soph team. He's somewhat frustrated right now because of his hitting but still starting and will continue working on hitting. There were players that didn't make the cut, but thank God they saw something in him to give him a chance to physically develop. I can see how this could happen to some kids because of the huge difference in the ages at boys go through puberty.
Now for the ballplayer who really does not have the basic skills, I can understand that after a careful evaluation by the coach during tryouts it may make sense to cut that ball player. However, for the skilled ball player who is just undersized, I think it may be better to give him the opportunity to develop.[/QUOTE]
The above applies to my son I believe. He is a freshman and only 5'2" (140 pounds) and looks like a midgit compared to his teammates. He made his team and is starting 2nd baseman on the Soph team. He's somewhat frustrated right now because of his hitting but still starting and will continue working on hitting. There were players that didn't make the cut, but thank God they saw something in him to give him a chance to physically develop. I can see how this could happen to some kids because of the huge difference in the ages at boys go through puberty.
quote:Originally posted by NYdad2017:
Some good points by everyone.
They way that I am looking at this, is that in our town kids that don't make the little league 13u and 14u travel teams are getting cut. If they took the best 15 or so kids, the same ones who usually make the travel teams, and they played school modified it would open up slots for those second tier players.
I'm with PG Staff on this much, you can't say what will become of those 12 to 14 year old kids if they get a chance, grow a little and work hard.
Obviously this situation is unique to where I live, but I still maintain that the "fear of being cut" is hurting kids in the long run.
You originally posed a number of questions, one of which you contradicted with your last paragraph above.
1. H.S. Team not competitive because it's the only program not fed by M.S. team?
2. No-cut policy is there to protect parents that need hand holding which you appeared to disagree with? (contradiction above, "fear of being cut hurting kids?
Anyway, it's a complex question. I live in a pretty strong baseball area of the country where there aren't any middle schools playing organized baseball and that hasn't adversely affected any H.S. programs here! There are so many BETTER options, competitively, to choose from at that age AND there are lesser competitive recreational programs where any player can hone his skills. Some options cut, some do not. Any style parent, player can be accomodated! It's not the schools function to produce athletes. Take your son where he fits.
No cut policies are a product of an educational concept to protect the childs self-esteem. It like many other well intended programs; affirmative action, leave no child behind, Title IX, etc., have all had far reaching "non-intended" consequences.
I believe in "cuts" in the most competitive arenas, even for the little ones. If they can't compete there you should let them develop elsewhere until they are ready. At, H.S., it's time for they should be ready for the real world from an athletic perspective anyway.
I don't see where cuts are a problem. You're not good enough, you get cut and try out again next year. With a no-cut policy, you wind up with players on a roster who will never play and quit out of frustration and boredom anyway. So why not cut the losses before the season starts. The only time a no-cut policy makes any sense is if say a small school barely has enough players to field a team. Then you got no choice.
I do agree that a lot of the helicopter parenting is being indulged, as opposed to discouraged or even stamped out as it should be. But I'm not sure the no-cuts policy is parent coddling. That seems more directed to the kids than to the parents.
I remember getting cut from my middle school basketball team in 8th grade. I continued playing on my own (no AAU ball back then), went to summer basketball camps, and made the freshman team the following year. I played again on JV as a sophomore before the axe finally fell the following year. (It turns out that when you're too short to play inside and too slow to play outside, your prospects in basketball or limited. Who knew?) I was actually the last kid cut. Someone asked the varsity coach why he held on to me so long despite my obvious limitations. "He just tries so hard," he said.
The youth travel team I helped coach years ago had a kid from ages 9-12u who was at that time our best catcher. When we transitioned to the big field, though, he went through that phase at 13-14u when he got teenage boy lack of focus for a while, and we did cut him. He did just enough to make our HS team and ride the bench for a few years before he put the pedal to the metal and won a starting job as a senior.
Today that kid is the starting catcher at the University of Maryland.
My point being, sure getting cut hurts. But you can sulk or you can get motivated to improve. I don't think you do anyone any favors by letting them pretend they're doing enough when they aren't. If anything, the teen years are when kids need to start learning that talent alone is not enough, and also that no matter how good they are, someone out there may very well have more talent than they do.
As for missing kids who might develop late, I have to have a rare point of disagreement with PGStaff here. Most schools take more players per class year in the middle school, freshman team/JV team years than could ever hope to play on varsity. It's not unusual to see 20 8th graders on a team, and 4 years later, maybe 8 seniors on the varsity. There is plenty of opportunity for the kid who's coming up a little bit short to go from bench rider to role player to starter to stud, if that is where he ultimately goes. It's not like we chose the varsity 8 back in 8th grade. The other 12 had 3-4 years to work there way there. The sand has to run out at some point, doesn't it?
I remember getting cut from my middle school basketball team in 8th grade. I continued playing on my own (no AAU ball back then), went to summer basketball camps, and made the freshman team the following year. I played again on JV as a sophomore before the axe finally fell the following year. (It turns out that when you're too short to play inside and too slow to play outside, your prospects in basketball or limited. Who knew?) I was actually the last kid cut. Someone asked the varsity coach why he held on to me so long despite my obvious limitations. "He just tries so hard," he said.
The youth travel team I helped coach years ago had a kid from ages 9-12u who was at that time our best catcher. When we transitioned to the big field, though, he went through that phase at 13-14u when he got teenage boy lack of focus for a while, and we did cut him. He did just enough to make our HS team and ride the bench for a few years before he put the pedal to the metal and won a starting job as a senior.
Today that kid is the starting catcher at the University of Maryland.
My point being, sure getting cut hurts. But you can sulk or you can get motivated to improve. I don't think you do anyone any favors by letting them pretend they're doing enough when they aren't. If anything, the teen years are when kids need to start learning that talent alone is not enough, and also that no matter how good they are, someone out there may very well have more talent than they do.
As for missing kids who might develop late, I have to have a rare point of disagreement with PGStaff here. Most schools take more players per class year in the middle school, freshman team/JV team years than could ever hope to play on varsity. It's not unusual to see 20 8th graders on a team, and 4 years later, maybe 8 seniors on the varsity. There is plenty of opportunity for the kid who's coming up a little bit short to go from bench rider to role player to starter to stud, if that is where he ultimately goes. It's not like we chose the varsity 8 back in 8th grade. The other 12 had 3-4 years to work there way there. The sand has to run out at some point, doesn't it?
To the original post, I would add this.
In my area (Richmond, VA), some counties offer middle school baseball teams, but one of the largest counties does not. Over the last several years, the HS varsity teams from the county without MS baseball have consistently outperformed the ones from the counties with MS baseball.
Which has led me to believe that having your son coached by the gym teacher at his middle school may not actually be as good of an opportunity as playing for a well coached travel team during those puberty years. So, don't get too upset about what's going on in your area. Just roll with the punches for now and who knows, you might like the way it all turns out.
In my area (Richmond, VA), some counties offer middle school baseball teams, but one of the largest counties does not. Over the last several years, the HS varsity teams from the county without MS baseball have consistently outperformed the ones from the counties with MS baseball.
Which has led me to believe that having your son coached by the gym teacher at his middle school may not actually be as good of an opportunity as playing for a well coached travel team during those puberty years. So, don't get too upset about what's going on in your area. Just roll with the punches for now and who knows, you might like the way it all turns out.
Cuts have been a part of baseball for like.....ever.
FWIW - I can see a JV squad carrying more than 15 players, but not more than 18. The emphasis at the level should be refining the player's skills - not necessarily winning. They also need to have a good baseline skill level. This ain't LL anymore. This year 27 players tried out for the JV squad - a no cut policy would have resulted in almost 30 players on the squad. A bit unrealistic to have that many players for a 20 game season. Assuming that refining the skill of the players is the emphasis, carrying that many players on the squad would not give any one enough quality playing time in a 20 game season.
IMHO, varsity is the school's showcase team - that's where you want the "best" players. Sure - there is still some skill refinement, but you're also trying to win.
At the HS level, it's time to start cutting the fat. No free rides. Everyone on the squad is there for a reason. Like I said earlier, this ain't LL (where everyone gets to play) anymore. I have nothing against LL - it has its place and a different emphasis than HS level ball.
FWIW - I can see a JV squad carrying more than 15 players, but not more than 18. The emphasis at the level should be refining the player's skills - not necessarily winning. They also need to have a good baseline skill level. This ain't LL anymore. This year 27 players tried out for the JV squad - a no cut policy would have resulted in almost 30 players on the squad. A bit unrealistic to have that many players for a 20 game season. Assuming that refining the skill of the players is the emphasis, carrying that many players on the squad would not give any one enough quality playing time in a 20 game season.
IMHO, varsity is the school's showcase team - that's where you want the "best" players. Sure - there is still some skill refinement, but you're also trying to win.
At the HS level, it's time to start cutting the fat. No free rides. Everyone on the squad is there for a reason. Like I said earlier, this ain't LL (where everyone gets to play) anymore. I have nothing against LL - it has its place and a different emphasis than HS level ball.
Within the past 5 years, our middle schools have started club ball. Completely parent funded, it is for 6th graders (the grade is not eligible to play) and those in 7th and 8th that don't make the school team. If there are enough players, there is a Varsity and Junior Varsity team. In some cases schools do not have a team at all, so the Varsity team is the official school team.
It seems to work, even though it may not be the highest talent/skill level. For the schools that don't have receive school funds for a baseball team, it a great solution.
It seems to work, even though it may not be the highest talent/skill level. For the schools that don't have receive school funds for a baseball team, it a great solution.